Seattle had no drops (Sando)

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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:52 pm
  • VHawk wrote:The worst QB'ing I have seen in a long time was the year Mora jr. was coaching especially Seneca vs the Colts.


    I guess everyone forgets the Charlie Frye game.
    cboom wrote:Wilson is the worst QB I have seen as a Hawks fan. And I have been around long enough to see them all.
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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:56 pm
  • HawksFTW wrote:
    VHawk wrote:The worst QB'ing I have seen in a long time was the year Mora jr. was coaching especially Seneca vs the Colts.


    I guess everyone forgets the Charlie Frye game.

    Repressed memories.

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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:15 pm
  • HawksFTW wrote:
    VHawk wrote:The worst QB'ing I have seen in a long time was the year Mora jr. was coaching especially Seneca vs the Colts.


    I guess everyone forgets the Charlie Frye game.


    I forgot we had Frye on the team...
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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:33 pm
  • HawksFTW wrote:
    cboom wrote:Sando was spot on. In fact throughout the game the receivers made some great catches on bad throws. Wilson is the worst QB I have seen as a Hawks fan. And I have been around long enough to see them all.


    This is going in my sig, so we can all make fun of you later.

    Not fair you got to that quicker than me! Can I do it too? PLEASE?!
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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:57 pm
  • cboom wrote:Sando was spot on. In fact throughout the game the receivers made some great catches on bad throws. Wilson is the worst QB I have seen as a Hawks fan. And I have been around long enough to see them all.


    LOL, you got to be kidding me......I mean he may not have played the best game last Sunday, but there is no way he is the worst Hawk QB ever. Guess you were a Flynn guy........
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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:34 pm
  • Sarlacc83 wrote:I forgot we had Frye on the team...


    His 83 yards are easily forgettable. Unlike CBJ's 69 yards against Cleveland, which forever will be seared into my brain.
    cboom wrote:Wilson is the worst QB I have seen as a Hawks fan. And I have been around long enough to see them all.
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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:11 pm
  • LOL

    Worst offensive output ever??? Check out the “79” Seattle VS LA Rams game.

    I was at that game, if you didn’t get back from the snack bar with your “King Kup” in time after halftime, you missed their ONLY first down of the game. Zorn’s pass to Largent for 11yds; first play of the second half.

    They had minus seven yards TOTAL offense…Zorn was not a rookie in that game, in fact “79” was his best statistical year.

    By the way that team went 9 and 7 just missing out on the playoffs to the 10 and 6 Broncos….
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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:15 pm
  • amill87 wrote:NFC West Blog


    Interesting article. According to ESPN stats and information, we had no drops over the weekend. They define a drop as "passes the receiver should have caught with ordinary effort, and only when the receiver is 100 percent at fault."

    I played WR in High School and my coaches always drilled into our heads that if the ball hits you in the hands, you catch it but how much blame do we want to put on the WR? None of our WRs are elite. Rice is the closest thing and he didn't have a drop in the endzone.


    Not to crucify the messenger but we all know statisticians don't play football. The words "ordinary effort" and "100% at fault" are subjective descriptors that can't be added or determined. Keep in mind this is the NFL where playmakers are everywhere and effort is anything but ordinary. From the likes of it some self-proclaimed expert posters here are likely peewee league coaches with weak arms and bricks for hands. Unless I was playing the wrong sport growing up, I think the general consensus remains that in American football a drop is when a receiver is in position to make a catch and the ball touches his hands but fall to the ground without the receiver gaining possession. Fault can be attributed to qb and receiver to any degree AND remain a DROPPED BALL. How do you determine "100% fault" and whether or not Edwards even gave his "ordinary effort" when a defender was running full steam at him is debatable and always has been. These writers are full of themselves. As stated earlier 'statisticians don't play football' but busy themselves with the newest ratings and analysts concern themselves with how to they can errantly project talent during the upcoming drafts. Journalists will write their opinions and continue to sell it as facts. Just my two pennies. But you can count their opinions as truths if you like.
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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:24 pm
  • cboom wrote:Sando was spot on. In fact throughout the game the receivers made some great catches on bad throws. Wilson is the worst QB I have seen as a Hawks fan. And I have been around long enough to see them all.


    Can someone please send the troll back to his cave? Worst you have seen....I'm guessing you're all of 10 years old if you think he's the worst Seattle has had on the field.
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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:35 pm
  • amill87 wrote:
    HawksFTW wrote:
    amill87 wrote:I didn't say it was the worst performance from a QB. I said it was one of the worst offensive performances (whole offense). Arizona was able to score without a turnover or special teams. Our offense couldn't do anything. It's not fantasy logic. The offense as a whole (minus Lynch) was terrible. The o-line was a turnstile and Wilson was erratic. I do not think Wilson had the worst performance from a QB but he was the QB of an offense that was very bad.

    In fact, I would argue sitting back and saying "we weren't shut out, our offense put up 16 points and almost won!" is more fantasy. That is purely looking at the stat sheet.


    For what it is worth, I wasn't speaking directly to you, just in general to the sentiment of the thread (and some posters therein). But replying to your post here, if you think that is one of the worst offensive performances you have ever seen, you haven't seen many Hawks games. Hell you can look to just last year to see a worse game.

    Overall Seattle ran the ball well. They had moments in the passing game. Enough of an offensive to at least put 20 on the board. You want to take those 20 off the board because they come from special teams and turnovers, well guess what? That is the part of the plan. You cannot discount the fact that as a team, they had multiple shots to win the game. That is a far f-cking cry from being shut out. If you don't realize the difference between those two, there isn't much else to say to you. Go back and watch the Cleveland game last year, or the Pittsburgh game last year, or any number of the games in between 2006-2010. You are being intellectually dishonest, and trying to disguise it as real analysis.



    How many points did the offense score without a short field? Stop staring at the stat sheet. The offense was terrible. If Lynch doesn't play, this is an ugly ugly game. Most of the catches the WR's had to make were pretty good catches on their part. When the WR's had chances to win the game, they just ran out of awesome catches to pull it off. I'm sorry I don't expect all of my WRs to make spectacular catches all game.

    This message board is seriously going down hill. We have almost 3 pages of posts in this thread and most of them are "lol wut?" and telling someone they don't know football or haven't been a fan for a long time. It's a god damn joke. I feel like I'm reading the message board for a mmo most the time around here. If someone has a different opinion than you than they a) Don't know anything about football b) haven't been a fan very long and c) have a secret agenda they are trying to push. I'm seriously about this close to just giving up on this board, it's nothing like it once was.


    Can we shack this already?
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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:42 pm
  • HawksFTW wrote:
    HoustonHawk82 wrote:Thankfully, it could have been a hell of a lot worse.


    Nope. Worst performance ever.


    Any way you look at it the offense did put points on the board therefore it was not a shut out. IMO those are the worst performances ever. If the team plays 60 mins of football and can't even get into field goal position that is one of the worst performances ever. What we saw against the Cards did leave something to be desired, but it was not the worst we have ever seen from the Seahawks, or their QB.
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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:43 pm
  • cboom wrote:Wilson is the worst QB I have seen as a Hawks fan. And I have been around long enough to see them all.


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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:48 pm
  • HawkMania wrote:
    HawksFTW wrote:
    cboom wrote:Sando was spot on. In fact throughout the game the receivers made some great catches on bad throws. Wilson is the worst QB I have seen as a Hawks fan. And I have been around long enough to see them all.


    This is going in my sig, so we can all make fun of you later.

    Not fair you got to that quicker than me! Can I do it too? PLEASE?!


    Don't worry there are loads of bad statements in this thread to choose from.

    If your favorite was taken:

    cboom wrote:
    Sando was spot on. In fact throughout the game the receivers made some great catches on bad throws. Wilson is the worst QB I have seen as a Hawks fan. And I have been around long enough to see them all.


    You can always use:

    cboom wrote:
    Football is not my game because I'm not jumping on the bandwagon of believing a short QB will lead this team to the promise land? A couple years from now Wilson will be forgotten about and you will forget I said he would fail.
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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:00 pm
  • sadhappy wrote:This place is a laugh a minute. I love it.

    I know it's not perfect, but based on passer rating he had the 171st worst single game performance for a Seahawks quarterback based on a minimum of 20 passing attempts. No matter how you slice it, it's a damn sight from "worst ever". Don't believe me? take a look for yourself:

    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... offset=100

    The honor of being the worst Seahawk QB ever? Probably Steve Meyer. Wow he was bad. Career passer rating of 43.5

    http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... erSt00.htm


    Love those stats! Thanks for the links! Looking at all those, it reminds me of why Dave Krieg is still probably my fave all-time Seahawks QB. Not flashy, had his faults, but could produce when we needed him. Helped to have Largent around though.... Moon is my fave all-time QB hands-down (Oilers were my second-team), but he got up here too late. McGwire makes RW look like Joe Montana x 100!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What a waste. To think we could have had Brett Favre during those dark years. :34853_doh:
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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:14 pm
  • Sturm wrote:
    cboom wrote:Sando was spot on. In fact throughout the game the receivers made some great catches on bad throws. Wilson is the worst QB I have seen as a Hawks fan. And I have been around long enough to see them all.


    And by all of them, you mean Matt Hasselbeck, Charlie Whitehurst, and Trent Dilfer.

    You wouldn't be making this statement if you had seen Kelly Stoffer or Dan McGwire try to complete a pass.


    Hass and Dilfer do not belong in that list. Try Gelbaugh,Mirer, Stuffer, McGwire for bad.
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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:51 pm
  • MeanBlueGreen wrote:
    Sturm wrote:
    cboom wrote:Sando was spot on. In fact throughout the game the receivers made some great catches on bad throws. Wilson is the worst QB I have seen as a Hawks fan. And I have been around long enough to see them all.


    And by all of them, you mean Matt Hasselbeck, Charlie Whitehurst, and Trent Dilfer.

    You wouldn't be making this statement if you had seen Kelly Stoffer or Dan McGwire try to complete a pass.


    Hass and Dilfer do not belong in that list. Try Gelbaugh,Mirer, Stuffer, McGwire for bad.


    As a Seahawk? How do you figure Dilfer did not belong on that list? He was not very good as a Seahawk.
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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:55 pm
  • Dilfer was never very good on any team :lol:
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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:17 am
  • Bakergirl wrote:As a Seahawk? How do you figure Dilfer did not belong on that list? He was not very good as a Seahawk.


    He wasn't bad. The guy had no offensive line. We would have given up sacks to high school defenses. I remember those painful god-awful days and Dilfer was about the only bright spot on those offenses. I remember people being so excited about Galloway, he was really the only "star" on that offense, the only player anyone thought would be any good - and he was crap. IIRC, we were also running Ricky Watters back then, he was okay. But god, that offense was terrible and so boring to watch. But I wouldn't really blame it on Dilfer - he was a big step up from McGwire and Stouffer.
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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:27 am
  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:I don't care what metric Sando quotes. Braylon dropped that ball.


    Two things.

    First, (semantics alert!) is it a "drop" if it never touches the receivers hands? :)

    Second, (more seriously), I think Sando has a good definition to work with. A drop should only count for plays where the receiver is 100% at fault. If a receiver goes all out and can't haul in a very tough catch, should that count as a drop? Or what if he was interfered with and it wasn't called? Is that his fault? That final pass was so high and wide and was thrown so fast that the WR (a 6'3" WR) couldn't even get his hands on it! Not to mention, it did appear that Edwards was grabbed by the DB as well.

    It kind of surprises me that people still argue this even after Hawkblogger breaks it down with photo evidence. Wilson was throwing very tough to catch passes all game long, and Seattle's WRs actually caught quite a few of them. Edwards himself had a couple of impressive grabs. To throw Edwards under the bus because he couldn't bring in a full extension pass thrown at max velocity while being mildly interfered with is just looking for an easy/convenient scapegoat because people are angry and looking for an easy target. Kinda reminds me of this:

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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:05 am

  • I forgot we had Frye on the team...


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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:13 am
  • kearly wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:I don't care what metric Sando quotes. Braylon dropped that ball.


    Two things.

    First, (semantics alert!) is it a "drop" if it never touches the receivers hands? :)

    Second, (more seriously), I think Sando has a good definition to work with. A drop should only count for plays where the receiver is 100% at fault. If a receiver goes all out and can't haul in a very tough catch, should that count as a drop? Or what if he was interfered with and it wasn't called? Is that his fault? That final pass was so high and wide and was thrown so fast that the WR (a 6'3" WR) couldn't even get his hands on it! Not to mention, it did appear that Edwards was grabbed by the DB as well.

    It kind of surprises me that people still argue this even after Hawkblogger breaks it down with photo evidence. Wilson was throwing very tough to catch passes all game long, and Seattle's WRs actually caught quite a few of them. Edwards himself had a couple of impressive grabs. To throw Edwards under the bus because he couldn't bring in a full extension pass thrown at max velocity while being mildly interfered with is just looking for an easy/convenient scapegoat because people are angry and looking for an easy target. Kinda reminds me of this:

    Image



    +1... It's because no one wants to admit Sundays game with RW equaled TJack's second to worst performance of last year. Without the turnovers and special teams returns we have a terrible game on offense. RW will get better and might even be the QBOTF, but let's be honest along the ride. Better passing and we win the game.
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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:14 am
  • Does this mean that throws considered drops are the same throws that are more easily intercepted?
    Is throwing a receiver open never a drop when incomplete?


    Is there even an official definition for the term ?
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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:47 am
  • MeanBlueGreen wrote:
    Sturm wrote:
    cboom wrote:Sando was spot on. In fact throughout the game the receivers made some great catches on bad throws. Wilson is the worst QB I have seen as a Hawks fan. And I have been around long enough to see them all.


    And by all of them, you mean Matt Hasselbeck, Charlie Whitehurst, and Trent Dilfer.

    You wouldn't be making this statement if you had seen Kelly Stoffer or Dan McGwire try to complete a pass.


    Hass and Dilfer do not belong in that list. Try Gelbaugh,Mirer, Stuffer, McGwire for bad.


    Read it again. I think he meant that Hasselbeck, Whitehurst and Dilfer were the only quarterbacks he remembers watching. He might not be old enough to remember the glory days of Stoffer or McGwire. Hell, maybe not even Kitna.
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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:59 am
  • "To throw Edwards under the bus because he couldn't bring in a full extension pass thrown at max velocity while being mildly interfered with is just looking for an easy/convenient scapegoat because people are angry and looking for an easy target."

    I don't think I'm throwing BE under the bus because I think he should have caught the pass. I don't even question its degree of difficulty. I wanted him to catch it, and I think quite a few players would have. Of course we can all have differing opinions on the matter, but that's just how I see it. I want him to make that catch because other players could have. Do I blame him? No. I'm just ready to move on to week 2. Hopefully he catches it next time.
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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:21 pm
  • cboom wrote:Sando was spot on. In fact throughout the game the receivers made some great catches on bad throws. Wilson is the worst QB I have seen as a Hawks fan. And I have been around long enough to see them all.



    :roll:
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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:41 pm
  • KARAVARUS wrote:"To throw Edwards under the bus because he couldn't bring in a full extension pass thrown at max velocity while being mildly interfered with is just looking for an easy/convenient scapegoat because people are angry and looking for an easy target."

    I don't think I'm throwing BE under the bus because I think he should have caught the pass. I don't even question its degree of difficulty. I wanted him to catch it, and I think quite a few players would have. Of course we can all have differing opinions on the matter, but that's just how I see it. I want him to make that catch because other players could have. Do I blame him? No. I'm just ready to move on to week 2. Hopefully he catches it next time.


    I've looked at that play 20 times and it still doesn't look routine to me. Was it possible, sure, but I'd say it's "possible" in the unlikely sense. Let's not be lame and single players out for a team loss, especially when it's for their inability to complete a very difficult play. I'm roughly as disappointed with Edwards right now as I was when Steven Hauschka missed that 61 yard game winner against Atlanta last year. There are tons of things I could list that cost us the game, and most of them are more deserving of criticism than Edwards performance on the final play.
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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:36 am
  • kearly wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:I don't care what metric Sando quotes. Braylon dropped that ball.


    Two things.

    First, (semantics alert!) is it a "drop" if it never touches the receivers hands? :)

    Second, (more seriously), I think Sando has a good definition to work with. A drop should only count for plays where the receiver is 100% at fault. If a receiver goes all out and can't haul in a very tough catch, should that count as a drop? Or what if he was interfered with and it wasn't called? Is that his fault? That final pass was so high and wide and was thrown so fast that the WR (a 6'3" WR) couldn't even get his hands on it! Not to mention, it did appear that Edwards was grabbed by the DB as well.

    It kind of surprises me that people still argue this even after Hawkblogger breaks it down with photo evidence. Wilson was throwing very tough to catch passes all game long, and Seattle's WRs actually caught quite a few of them. Edwards himself had a couple of impressive grabs. To throw Edwards under the bus because he couldn't bring in a full extension pass thrown at max velocity while being mildly interfered with is just looking for an easy/convenient scapegoat because people are angry and looking for an easy target. Kinda reminds me of this:

    Image


    Hawkblogger himself said that he was only breaking down the tougher of Wilson's passes; many of them were good.

    That ball went right through Edwards' hands. It was catchable. Edwards is a veteran WR whom we hired to make tough throws; Wilson is a rookie QB who didn't throw a perfect ball but nonetheless made the play possible against a very difficult defense. Like others have said, "% the receivers' fault" is an impossible metric to comfortably work with.

    I'd call it 66% Edwards, 33% Wilson.
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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:53 am
  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:I'd call it 66% Edwards, 33% Wilson.


    I agree.
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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:09 am
  • Bakergirl wrote:
    cboom wrote:Sando was spot on. In fact throughout the game the receivers made some great catches on bad throws. Wilson is the worst QB I have seen as a Hawks fan. And I have been around long enough to see them all.


    Can someone please send the troll back to his cave? Worst you have seen....I'm guessing you're all of 10 years old if you think he's the worst Seattle has had on the field.


    I am sticking to what I said. I am not just looking at it on stats alone. Composure, decision making, and the balls thrown all factor into my thoughts. I am guessing you haven't played football at any level? And that's totally cool. But the fact is anybody that even played through HS will know and understand about 3 times more about the game than a person that didn't. The person that has never played sees what happened. The person that has played has the ability to understand why and how things happen. I am sure Wilson will not be starting in this league for very long. That's my opinion, that doesn't make me a troll. I have never insulted you for your very basic and surface comments, why do you feel the need to insult me?
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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:12 am
  • Aw, just when I thought we were all going to hug it out.
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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:20 am
  • Seahawk Sailor wrote:Aw, just when I thought we were all going to hug it out.


    I have been a fan for a long time. And up till Pete got hired was a ticket holder for over 10 years. I care and have invested a lot of money into this team. But it seems if you question or have an opinion that is not all peaches and cream your a troll? I think this team is a mess right now from a bad coach to a QB that is to small. And this makes me sick.
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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:38 am
  • cboom wrote:
    Seahawk Sailor wrote:Aw, just when I thought we were all going to hug it out.


    I have been a fan for a long time. And up till Pete got hired was a ticket holder for over 10 years. I care and have invested a lot of money into this team. But it seems if you question or have an opinion that is not all peaches and cream your a troll? I think this team is a mess right now from a bad coach to a QB that is to small. And this makes me sick.


    Sounds like you have an unbiased view point on the situation, good for you. I look forward to more of your tittalting contributions.
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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:02 am
  • There were many plays, both good and bad, that got the team in the position to either win or lose in AZ last Sunday. Often times in football a game will come down to one final play. IMO that’s one of the things that makes this sport so exciting; a team full of players/athletes battling their hearts out to find themselves with one shot, a win or lose situation. On the final play of the AZ game two players were in the spotlight. That’s drama at its finest! Now add the facts that one of the players is a rookie in his first game having a tough day, and the other a veteran with the stigma of dropping balls. Even more drama! The end result was a questionable pass and a questionable drop. Game over.

    I realized after lividly crying in my beer for a few hours, that regardless of the outcome and all the frustrating aspects of the game, the overall excitement and drama was enjoyable. This is one of the reasons I watch football. Granted, I wanted us to win very badly but I also knew going into this season we wouldn’t be undefeated.

    I don’t understand this opinion:

    cboom wrote:
    Seahawk Sailor wrote:Aw, just when I thought we were all going to hug it out.


    I have been a fan for a long time. And up till Pete got hired was a ticket holder for over 10 years. I care and have invested a lot of money into this team. But it seems if you question or have an opinion that is not all peaches and cream your a troll? I think this team is a mess right now from a bad coach to a QB that is to small. And this makes me sick.


    I think it’s safe to say that PC inherited a team that was in shambles. Going into his 3rd year, anyone with half a brain can see that the quality of players he has brought in, and coached up, are by far better than what he had when he got here (And he won a play-off game with a roster only half full of the type of players he wanted). Also, he was a .500 coach in the NFL during his previous stint (and one heck of a coach in college). I’m not a huge PC fan. I love his enthusiasm and work ethic, but I cannot adequately gage his coaching acumen with such a small body of work. Remember, this is his 1st year with a team full of “His” players. Give the guy a chance to sink or swim before you deem him a bad coach.

    As far RW being too small? You’re not alone in having that opinion (I don’t agree as his physical/mental tools speak to me differently). A lot of people out there think any QB not named Brees or Flutie, that are under 6 ft., are destined to fail. Only time will tell on that score. But once again, how can one make a “statement of fact” such as “RW is too small to play in this league” when his body of work consists of a whopping ONE GAME? I’m sure there are some stats out there in the interverse that show a percentage of starting QB’s under 6 feet, and their respective records in the NFL. And said records will probably show a higher percentage of failure for smaller QB’s. However, there are still smaller QB’s that have made an impact in the NFL, and that’s one of the reasons I love this game so much. Anything can happen, on any given Sunday.

    Regardless of all that crap I just wrote, and if you’ve gotten this far in my rant I thank you for sticking with me, this is the team that I have this year. This is the team I’ll be rooting for each week. I can’t do anything about it except try to enjoy myself, through the good and bad, and enjoy the drama that is football.

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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:15 am
  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:I'd call it 66% Edwards, 33% Wilson.

    I agree that it was more on Braylon than it was on Wilson but I think the defense also gets some credit there. 50% Edwards, 30% Gay, 20% Wilson.
    TCS wrote:A lot of people out there think any QB not named Brees or Flutie, that are under 6 ft., are destined to fail.

    Brees is not under 6'.
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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:22 am
  • cboom wrote:
    Seahawk Sailor wrote:Aw, just when I thought we were all going to hug it out.


    I have been a fan for a long time. And up till Pete got hired was a ticket holder for over 10 years. I care and have invested a lot of money into this team. But it seems if you question or have an opinion that is not all peaches and cream your a troll? I think this team is a mess right now from a bad coach to a QB that is to small. And this makes me sick.


    If you said RW is to short and it is going to hurt him, if you said you don't think he will ever be a great starting qb - actually if you said something that wasn't so absolute as "he is the worst Seahawks QB EVER" then you probably wouldn't be called a troll.

    Anytime you go with EVER you are going to have very polar thoughts. I think time will tell if RW will be a success or not but I do know that he is not the worst ever or that was the worst ever performance by a Seahawk QB.
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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:01 pm
  • cboom wrote:
    Seahawk Sailor wrote:Aw, just when I thought we were all going to hug it out.


    I have been a fan for a long time. And up till Pete got hired was a ticket holder for over 10 years. I care and have invested a lot of money into this team. But it seems if you question or have an opinion that is not all peaches and cream your a troll? I think this team is a mess right now from a bad coach to a QB that is to small. And this makes me sick.


    So, your hatred of Pete Carroll runs so deep that you cancelled your season tickets as soon as he was hired? You hate the guy so much that you would not stick around for one game to watch your beloved Hawks?

    Honest question: What would Pete Carroll have to do to win you over?
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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:52 pm
  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:
    kearly wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:I don't care what metric Sando quotes. Braylon dropped that ball.


    Two things.

    First, (semantics alert!) is it a "drop" if it never touches the receivers hands? :)

    Second, (more seriously), I think Sando has a good definition to work with. A drop should only count for plays where the receiver is 100% at fault. If a receiver goes all out and can't haul in a very tough catch, should that count as a drop? Or what if he was interfered with and it wasn't called? Is that his fault? That final pass was so high and wide and was thrown so fast that the WR (a 6'3" WR) couldn't even get his hands on it! Not to mention, it did appear that Edwards was grabbed by the DB as well.

    It kind of surprises me that people still argue this even after Hawkblogger breaks it down with photo evidence. Wilson was throwing very tough to catch passes all game long, and Seattle's WRs actually caught quite a few of them. Edwards himself had a couple of impressive grabs. To throw Edwards under the bus because he couldn't bring in a full extension pass thrown at max velocity while being mildly interfered with is just looking for an easy/convenient scapegoat because people are angry and looking for an easy target. Kinda reminds me of this:

    Image


    Hawkblogger himself said that he was only breaking down the tougher of Wilson's passes; many of them were good.

    That ball went right through Edwards' hands. It was catchable. Edwards is a veteran WR whom we hired to make tough throws; Wilson is a rookie QB who didn't throw a perfect ball but nonetheless made the play possible against a very difficult defense. Like others have said, "% the receivers' fault" is an impossible metric to comfortably work with.

    I'd call it 66% Edwards, 33% Wilson.


    True people are overanalyzing this. Nobody needs to be thrown under the Seahawk's bus since this is afterall a TEAM sport. I just like how the team and in particular how the receivers rallied behind Wilson during interviews.

    To be fair I'd distribute the credit for failed plays evenly. Something along the line of 33.3% QB fault, 33.3% receiver fault and 33.3% defender's fault. Fair enough?
    Are we moving on to the "ordinary effort" question now?
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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:30 pm
  • Scottemojo wrote:
    cboom wrote:
    Seahawk Sailor wrote:Aw, just when I thought we were all going to hug it out.


    I have been a fan for a long time. And up till Pete got hired was a ticket holder for over 10 years. I care and have invested a lot of money into this team. But it seems if you question or have an opinion that is not all peaches and cream your a troll? I think this team is a mess right now from a bad coach to a QB that is to small. And this makes me sick.


    So, your hatred of Pete Carroll runs so deep that you cancelled your season tickets as soon as he was hired? You hate the guy so much that you would not stick around for one game to watch your beloved Hawks?

    Honest question: What would Pete Carroll have to do to win you over?


    I don't hate him at all. He was a hack of a coach at NE with a team loaded with talent. And I was not willing to spend the kind of $ tickets cost on a team that would hire him as a HC. He will win me over when he stops wasting 1st round picks and having winning seasons. I don't believe that will happen.
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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:33 pm

Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:40 pm
  • Lords of Scythia wrote:If you can touch it you can catch it.


    I'd be happy to throw a few balls for you and see if you can back this up. A guy can't be expected to catch a 100 mile an hour fast ball just because he got his finger tips on it. Wilson had guys open and had a chance to win the game. He choked it away with bad throw after bad throw.
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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:46 pm
  • cboom wrote:Composure, decision making, and the balls thrown all factor into my thoughts.


    The fact that he's only played one game at the professional level apparently doesn't.
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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:54 pm
  • first game ever and he drove 'em down the field to be in position for Baldwin and Edwards to drop game winners don't either.
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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:03 pm
  • Throwdown wrote:first game ever and he drove 'em down the field to be in position for Baldwin and Edwards to drop game winners don't either.


    Drove them down field is a bit of a stretch. The ref's helped out a lot with those nit picky PI calls that would not have been called by the real officials.
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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:10 pm
  • cboom wrote:
    Throwdown wrote:first game ever and he drove 'em down the field to be in position for Baldwin and Edwards to drop game winners don't either.


    Drove them down field is a bit of a stretch. The ref's helped out a lot with those nit picky PI calls that would not have been called by the real officials.


    The Rice PI was not nit picky, far from it. He was actually interfered with twice on that play.
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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:13 pm
  • This has obviously become the cboom personal thread. Lets make it a sticky.
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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:17 pm
  • cboom wrote:
    Lords of Scythia wrote:If you can touch it you can catch it.


    I'd be happy to throw a few balls for you and see if you can back this up. A guy can't be expected to catch a 100 mile an hour fast ball just because he got his finger tips on it. Wilson had guys open and had a chance to win the game. He choked it away with bad throw after bad throw.

    That's an old coaching cliche'. It does seem sort of asinine and ridiculous.
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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:21 pm
  • cboom wrote:
    Throwdown wrote:first game ever and he drove 'em down the field to be in position for Baldwin and Edwards to drop game winners don't either.


    Drove them down field is a bit of a stretch. The ref's helped out a lot with those nit picky PI calls that would not have been called by the real officials.

    I beg to differ. Wilson drew the fouls. A PI is the same as a catch. He did drive us down the field. This was set up by the PIs on our dbs - refs have this makeup call instinct. Wilson had that one garbage-time pick and no other turnovers. The kid played a solid game. And you're talking about a rookie in his first game....?
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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:25 pm
  • At least 66% QB R. ilson's fault. He initiated the play with a poor throw that increased the level of difficulty Edwards had to contend with when attempting to make the catch. A better throw, and corresponding miss by Edwards would bump up his % of 'fault'.
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Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:33 pm

Re: Seattle had no drops (Sando)
Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:56 pm

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