kearly wrote:

MontanaHawk05 wrote:I don't care what metric Sando quotes. Braylon dropped that ball.

Two things.

First, (semantics alert!) is it a "drop" if it never touches the receivers hands?

Second, (more seriously), I think Sando has a good definition to work with. A drop should only count for plays where the receiver is 100% at fault. If a receiver goes all out and can't haul in a very tough catch, should that count as a drop? Or what if he was interfered with and it wasn't called? Is that his fault? That final pass was so high and wide and was thrown so fast that the WR (a 6'3" WR) couldn't even get his hands on it! Not to mention, it did appear that Edwards was grabbed by the DB as well.

It kind of surprises me that people still argue this even after Hawkblogger breaks it down with photo evidence. Wilson was throwing very tough to catch passes all game long, and Seattle's WRs actually caught quite a few of them. Edwards himself had a couple of impressive grabs. To throw Edwards under the bus because he couldn't bring in a full extension pass thrown at max velocity while being mildly interfered with is just looking for an easy/convenient scapegoat because people are angry and looking for an easy target. Kinda reminds me of this:

+1... It's because no one wants to admit Sundays game with RW equaled TJack's second to worst performance of last year. Without the turnovers and special teams returns we have a terrible game on offense. RW will get better and might even be the QBOTF, but let's be honest along the ride. Better passing and we win the game.

Does this mean that throws considered drops are the same throws that are more easily intercepted?
Is throwing a receiver open never a drop when incomplete?


Is there even an official definition for the term ?

MeanBlueGreen wrote:

Sturm wrote:

cboom wrote:Sando was spot on. In fact throughout the game the receivers made some great catches on bad throws. Wilson is the worst QB I have seen as a Hawks fan. And I have been around long enough to see them all.

And by all of them, you mean Matt Hasselbeck, Charlie Whitehurst, and Trent Dilfer.

You wouldn't be making this statement if you had seen Kelly Stoffer or Dan McGwire try to complete a pass.

Hass and Dilfer do not belong in that list. Try Gelbaugh,Mirer, Stuffer, McGwire for bad.

Read it again. I think he meant that Hasselbeck, Whitehurst and Dilfer were the only quarterbacks he remembers watching. He might not be old enough to remember the glory days of Stoffer or McGwire. Hell, maybe not even Kitna.

"To throw Edwards under the bus because he couldn't bring in a full extension pass thrown at max velocity while being mildly interfered with is just looking for an easy/convenient scapegoat because people are angry and looking for an easy target."

I don't think I'm throwing BE under the bus because I think he should have caught the pass. I don't even question its degree of difficulty. I wanted him to catch it, and I think quite a few players would have. Of course we can all have differing opinions on the matter, but that's just how I see it. I want him to make that catch because other players could have. Do I blame him? No. I'm just ready to move on to week 2. Hopefully he catches it next time.

cboom wrote:Sando was spot on. In fact throughout the game the receivers made some great catches on bad throws. Wilson is the worst QB I have seen as a Hawks fan. And I have been around long enough to see them all.

KARAVARUS wrote:"To throw Edwards under the bus because he couldn't bring in a full extension pass thrown at max velocity while being mildly interfered with is just looking for an easy/convenient scapegoat because people are angry and looking for an easy target."

I don't think I'm throwing BE under the bus because I think he should have caught the pass. I don't even question its degree of difficulty. I wanted him to catch it, and I think quite a few players would have. Of course we can all have differing opinions on the matter, but that's just how I see it. I want him to make that catch because other players could have. Do I blame him? No. I'm just ready to move on to week 2. Hopefully he catches it next time.

I've looked at that play 20 times and it still doesn't look routine to me. Was it possible, sure, but I'd say it's "possible" in the unlikely sense. Let's not be lame and single players out for a team loss, especially when it's for their inability to complete a very difficult play. I'm roughly as disappointed with Edwards right now as I was when Steven Hauschka missed that 61 yard game winner against Atlanta last year. There are tons of things I could list that cost us the game, and most of them are more deserving of criticism than Edwards performance on the final play.

kearly wrote:

MontanaHawk05 wrote:I don't care what metric Sando quotes. Braylon dropped that ball.

Two things.

First, (semantics alert!) is it a "drop" if it never touches the receivers hands?

Second, (more seriously), I think Sando has a good definition to work with. A drop should only count for plays where the receiver is 100% at fault. If a receiver goes all out and can't haul in a very tough catch, should that count as a drop? Or what if he was interfered with and it wasn't called? Is that his fault? That final pass was so high and wide and was thrown so fast that the WR (a 6'3" WR) couldn't even get his hands on it! Not to mention, it did appear that Edwards was grabbed by the DB as well.

It kind of surprises me that people still argue this even after Hawkblogger breaks it down with photo evidence. Wilson was throwing very tough to catch passes all game long, and Seattle's WRs actually caught quite a few of them. Edwards himself had a couple of impressive grabs. To throw Edwards under the bus because he couldn't bring in a full extension pass thrown at max velocity while being mildly interfered with is just looking for an easy/convenient scapegoat because people are angry and looking for an easy target. Kinda reminds me of this:

Hawkblogger himself said that he was only breaking down the tougher of Wilson's passes; many of them were good.

That ball went right through Edwards' hands. It was catchable. Edwards is a veteran WR whom we hired to make tough throws; Wilson is a rookie QB who didn't throw a perfect ball but nonetheless made the play possible against a very difficult defense. Like others have said, "% the receivers' fault" is an impossible metric to comfortably work with.

I'd call it 66% Edwards, 33% Wilson.

MontanaHawk05 wrote:I'd call it 66% Edwards, 33% Wilson.

I agree.

Bakergirl wrote:

cboom wrote:Sando was spot on. In fact throughout the game the receivers made some great catches on bad throws. Wilson is the worst QB I have seen as a Hawks fan. And I have been around long enough to see them all.

Can someone please send the troll back to his cave? Worst you have seen....I'm guessing you're all of 10 years old if you think he's the worst Seattle has had on the field.

I am sticking to what I said. I am not just looking at it on stats alone. Composure, decision making, and the balls thrown all factor into my thoughts. I am guessing you haven't played football at any level? And that's totally cool. But the fact is anybody that even played through HS will know and understand about 3 times more about the game than a person that didn't. The person that has never played sees what happened. The person that has played has the ability to understand why and how things happen. I am sure Wilson will not be starting in this league for very long. That's my opinion, that doesn't make me a troll. I have never insulted you for your very basic and surface comments, why do you feel the need to insult me?

Aw, just when I thought we were all going to hug it out.

Seahawk Sailor wrote:Aw, just when I thought we were all going to hug it out.

I have been a fan for a long time. And up till Pete got hired was a ticket holder for over 10 years. I care and have invested a lot of money into this team. But it seems if you question or have an opinion that is not all peaches and cream your a troll? I think this team is a mess right now from a bad coach to a QB that is to small. And this makes me sick.

cboom wrote:

Seahawk Sailor wrote:Aw, just when I thought we were all going to hug it out.

I have been a fan for a long time. And up till Pete got hired was a ticket holder for over 10 years. I care and have invested a lot of money into this team. But it seems if you question or have an opinion that is not all peaches and cream your a troll? I think this team is a mess right now from a bad coach to a QB that is to small. And this makes me sick.

Sounds like you have an unbiased view point on the situation, good for you. I look forward to more of your tittalting contributions.

There were many plays, both good and bad, that got the team in the position to either win or lose in AZ last Sunday. Often times in football a game will come down to one final play. IMO that’s one of the things that makes this sport so exciting; a team full of players/athletes battling their hearts out to find themselves with one shot, a win or lose situation. On the final play of the AZ game two players were in the spotlight. That’s drama at its finest! Now add the facts that one of the players is a rookie in his first game having a tough day, and the other a veteran with the stigma of dropping balls. Even more drama! The end result was a questionable pass and a questionable drop. Game over.

I realized after lividly crying in my beer for a few hours, that regardless of the outcome and all the frustrating aspects of the game, the overall excitement and drama was enjoyable. This is one of the reasons I watch football. Granted, I wanted us to win very badly but I also knew going into this season we wouldn’t be undefeated.

I don’t understand this opinion:

cboom wrote:

Seahawk Sailor wrote:Aw, just when I thought we were all going to hug it out.

I have been a fan for a long time. And up till Pete got hired was a ticket holder for over 10 years. I care and have invested a lot of money into this team. But it seems if you question or have an opinion that is not all peaches and cream your a troll? I think this team is a mess right now from a bad coach to a QB that is to small. And this makes me sick.

I think it’s safe to say that PC inherited a team that was in shambles. Going into his 3rd year, anyone with half a brain can see that the quality of players he has brought in, and coached up, are by far better than what he had when he got here (And he won a play-off game with a roster only half full of the type of players he wanted). Also, he was a .500 coach in the NFL during his previous stint (and one heck of a coach in college). I’m not a huge PC fan. I love his enthusiasm and work ethic, but I cannot adequately gage his coaching acumen with such a small body of work. Remember, this is his 1st year with a team full of “His” players. Give the guy a chance to sink or swim before you deem him a bad coach.

As far RW being too small? You’re not alone in having that opinion (I don’t agree as his physical/mental tools speak to me differently). A lot of people out there think any QB not named Brees or Flutie, that are under 6 ft., are destined to fail. Only time will tell on that score. But once again, how can one make a “statement of fact” such as “RW is too small to play in this league” when his body of work consists of a whopping ONE GAME? I’m sure there are some stats out there in the interverse that show a percentage of starting QB’s under 6 feet, and their respective records in the NFL. And said records will probably show a higher percentage of failure for smaller QB’s. However, there are still smaller QB’s that have made an impact in the NFL, and that’s one of the reasons I love this game so much. Anything can happen, on any given Sunday.

Regardless of all that crap I just wrote, and if you’ve gotten this far in my rant I thank you for sticking with me, this is the team that I have this year. This is the team I’ll be rooting for each week. I can’t do anything about it except try to enjoy myself, through the good and bad, and enjoy the drama that is football.

Go Hawks!

MontanaHawk05 wrote:I'd call it 66% Edwards, 33% Wilson.

I agree that it was more on Braylon than it was on Wilson but I think the defense also gets some credit there. 50% Edwards, 30% Gay, 20% Wilson.

TCS wrote:A lot of people out there think any QB not named Brees or Flutie, that are under 6 ft., are destined to fail.

Brees is not under 6'.

cboom wrote:

Seahawk Sailor wrote:Aw, just when I thought we were all going to hug it out.

I have been a fan for a long time. And up till Pete got hired was a ticket holder for over 10 years. I care and have invested a lot of money into this team. But it seems if you question or have an opinion that is not all peaches and cream your a troll? I think this team is a mess right now from a bad coach to a QB that is to small. And this makes me sick.

If you said RW is to short and it is going to hurt him, if you said you don't think he will ever be a great starting qb - actually if you said something that wasn't so absolute as "he is the worst Seahawks QB EVER" then you probably wouldn't be called a troll.

Anytime you go with EVER you are going to have very polar thoughts. I think time will tell if RW will be a success or not but I do know that he is not the worst ever or that was the worst ever performance by a Seahawk QB.

cboom wrote:

Seahawk Sailor wrote:Aw, just when I thought we were all going to hug it out.

I have been a fan for a long time. And up till Pete got hired was a ticket holder for over 10 years. I care and have invested a lot of money into this team. But it seems if you question or have an opinion that is not all peaches and cream your a troll? I think this team is a mess right now from a bad coach to a QB that is to small. And this makes me sick.

So, your hatred of Pete Carroll runs so deep that you cancelled your season tickets as soon as he was hired? You hate the guy so much that you would not stick around for one game to watch your beloved Hawks?

Honest question: What would Pete Carroll have to do to win you over?

MontanaHawk05 wrote:

kearly wrote:

MontanaHawk05 wrote:I don't care what metric Sando quotes. Braylon dropped that ball.

Two things.

First, (semantics alert!) is it a "drop" if it never touches the receivers hands?

Second, (more seriously), I think Sando has a good definition to work with. A drop should only count for plays where the receiver is 100% at fault. If a receiver goes all out and can't haul in a very tough catch, should that count as a drop? Or what if he was interfered with and it wasn't called? Is that his fault? That final pass was so high and wide and was thrown so fast that the WR (a 6'3" WR) couldn't even get his hands on it! Not to mention, it did appear that Edwards was grabbed by the DB as well.

It kind of surprises me that people still argue this even after Hawkblogger breaks it down with photo evidence. Wilson was throwing very tough to catch passes all game long, and Seattle's WRs actually caught quite a few of them. Edwards himself had a couple of impressive grabs. To throw Edwards under the bus because he couldn't bring in a full extension pass thrown at max velocity while being mildly interfered with is just looking for an easy/convenient scapegoat because people are angry and looking for an easy target. Kinda reminds me of this:

Hawkblogger himself said that he was only breaking down the tougher of Wilson's passes; many of them were good.

That ball went right through Edwards' hands. It was catchable. Edwards is a veteran WR whom we hired to make tough throws; Wilson is a rookie QB who didn't throw a perfect ball but nonetheless made the play possible against a very difficult defense. Like others have said, "% the receivers' fault" is an impossible metric to comfortably work with.

I'd call it 66% Edwards, 33% Wilson.

True people are overanalyzing this. Nobody needs to be thrown under the Seahawk's bus since this is afterall a TEAM sport. I just like how the team and in particular how the receivers rallied behind Wilson during interviews.

To be fair I'd distribute the credit for failed plays evenly. Something along the line of 33.3% QB fault, 33.3% receiver fault and 33.3% defender's fault. Fair enough?
Are we moving on to the "ordinary effort" question now?

Scottemojo wrote:

cboom wrote:

Seahawk Sailor wrote:Aw, just when I thought we were all going to hug it out.

I have been a fan for a long time. And up till Pete got hired was a ticket holder for over 10 years. I care and have invested a lot of money into this team. But it seems if you question or have an opinion that is not all peaches and cream your a troll? I think this team is a mess right now from a bad coach to a QB that is to small. And this makes me sick.

So, your hatred of Pete Carroll runs so deep that you cancelled your season tickets as soon as he was hired? You hate the guy so much that you would not stick around for one game to watch your beloved Hawks?

Honest question: What would Pete Carroll have to do to win you over?

I don't hate him at all. He was a hack of a coach at NE with a team loaded with talent. And I was not willing to spend the kind of $ tickets cost on a team that would hire him as a HC. He will win me over when he stops wasting 1st round picks and having winning seasons. I don't believe that will happen.

If you can touch it you can catch it.

Lords of Scythia wrote:If you can touch it you can catch it.

I'd be happy to throw a few balls for you and see if you can back this up. A guy can't be expected to catch a 100 mile an hour fast ball just because he got his finger tips on it. Wilson had guys open and had a chance to win the game. He choked it away with bad throw after bad throw.

cboom wrote:Composure, decision making, and the balls thrown all factor into my thoughts.

The fact that he's only played one game at the professional level apparently doesn't.

first game ever and he drove 'em down the field to be in position for Baldwin and Edwards to drop game winners don't either.

Throwdown wrote:first game ever and he drove 'em down the field to be in position for Baldwin and Edwards to drop game winners don't either.

Drove them down field is a bit of a stretch. The ref's helped out a lot with those nit picky PI calls that would not have been called by the real officials.

cboom wrote:

Throwdown wrote:first game ever and he drove 'em down the field to be in position for Baldwin and Edwards to drop game winners don't either.

Drove them down field is a bit of a stretch. The ref's helped out a lot with those nit picky PI calls that would not have been called by the real officials.

The Rice PI was not nit picky, far from it. He was actually interfered with twice on that play.

This has obviously become the cboom personal thread. Lets make it a sticky.

cboom wrote:

Lords of Scythia wrote:If you can touch it you can catch it.

I'd be happy to throw a few balls for you and see if you can back this up. A guy can't be expected to catch a 100 mile an hour fast ball just because he got his finger tips on it. Wilson had guys open and had a chance to win the game. He choked it away with bad throw after bad throw.

That's an old coaching cliche'. It does seem sort of asinine and ridiculous.

cboom wrote:

Throwdown wrote:first game ever and he drove 'em down the field to be in position for Baldwin and Edwards to drop game winners don't either.

Drove them down field is a bit of a stretch. The ref's helped out a lot with those nit picky PI calls that would not have been called by the real officials.

I beg to differ. Wilson drew the fouls. A PI is the same as a catch. He did drive us down the field. This was set up by the PIs on our dbs - refs have this makeup call instinct. Wilson had that one garbage-time pick and no other turnovers. The kid played a solid game. And you're talking about a rookie in his first game....?

At least 66% QB R. ilson's fault. He initiated the play with a poor throw that increased the level of difficulty Edwards had to contend with when attempting to make the catch. A better throw, and corresponding miss by Edwards would bump up his % of 'fault'.

What was the best fight in history? One with Ali I'm guessing.

Lords of Scythia wrote:What was the best fight in history? One with Ali I'm guessing.

If you're talking boxing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_War_%28boxing%29

Lords of Scythia wrote:

cboom wrote:

Throwdown wrote:first game ever and he drove 'em down the field to be in position for Baldwin and Edwards to drop game winners don't either.

Drove them down field is a bit of a stretch. The ref's helped out a lot with those nit picky PI calls that would not have been called by the real officials.

I beg to differ. Wilson drew the fouls. A PI is the same as a catch. He did drive us down the field. This was set up by the PIs on our dbs - refs have this makeup call instinct. Wilson had that one garbage-time pick and no other turnovers. The kid played a solid game. And you're talking about a rookie in his first game....?

Lateral.

The only people blaming Wilson on those throws are Seahawk fans.Good WR's make that catch and that is the bottom effin line.I have talked to numerous sports fans and every damn one says the same damn thing......"Braylon should have caught that ball". Colin Cowherd that is always mocking the Seahawks say's that RW is legit and that the WR's let him down and that dude always talkin trash about the Hawks......C'mon man.

Dear Hugh Millen,

Welcome to .net ive heard these hate filled rants for over a month now on kjr. Get ready to eat your microphone.

BASF wrote:

Lords of Scythia wrote:What was the best fight in history? One with Ali I'm guessing.

If you're talking boxing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_War_%28boxing%29

Intense!

cboom wrote:Sando was spot on. In fact throughout the game the receivers made some great catches on bad throws. Wilson is the worst QB I have seen as a Hawks fan. And I have been around long enough to see them all.

Sorry to bump such an old thread.

Still stand by this statement?

AF_Hawk wrote:

cboom wrote:Sando was spot on. In fact throughout the game the receivers made some great catches on bad throws. Wilson is the worst QB I have seen as a Hawks fan. And I have been around long enough to see them all.

Sorry to bump such an old thread.

Still stand by this statement?

Wow. Thanks for the lulz! This thread is even better 3/4ths the way through the year.

cboom baby, we're all waiting for you to come back!! Don't be butthurt dude. Man up and admit you were so very, very wrong. It won't hurt. Honestly.

come back cboom come back.... to error is human, to trash talk dangeruss is deserving of a severe lashing... come get your medicine...

I like the part when HawksFTW says "This is going in my sig, so we can all make fun of you later." And cboom responds:

"Will you at least be man enough to leave it there when he gets benched?"

LMAO!! You can't make this stuff up!

Aros wrote:I like the part when HawksFTW says "This is going in my sig, so we can all make fun of you later." And cboom responds:

"Will you at least be man enough to leave it there when he gets benched?"

LMAO!! You can't make this stuff up!

cboom wrote:Sando was spot on. In fact throughout the game the receivers made some great catches on bad throws. Wilson is the worst QB I have seen as a Hawks fan. And I have been around long enough to see them all.

If you've been around long enough to "see them all", maybe you have been around too long and senility is setting in. I say that because just last season Seattle started a much worse QB than Russell Wilson. Russell Wilson has thrown for more touchdowns in 12 games than Tarvaris threw all season. Tell me, if you're a Seahawk fan, that you have less confidence in Russell late in the game down by less than a touchdown than you did with Tarvaris. Russell also has more 4th quarter comeback wins in 12 games than Tarvaris has in his 7th year.

rideaducati wrote:

cboom wrote:Sando was spot on. In fact throughout the game the receivers made some great catches on bad throws. Wilson is the worst QB I have seen as a Hawks fan. And I have been around long enough to see them all.

If you've been around long enough to "see them all", maybe you have been around too long and senility is setting in. I say that because just last season Seattle started a much worse QB than Russell Wilson. Russell Wilson has thrown for more touchdowns in 12 games than Tarvaris threw all season. Tell me, if you're a Seahawk fan, that you have less confidence in Russell late in the game down by less than a touchdown than you did with Tarvaris. Russell also has more 4th quarter comeback wins in 12 games than Tarvaris has in his 7th year.

cboom hasn't checked in, in months. Good luck getting a response.

there is a Cboom on the Seattle times Sehawks board, same guy I asssume

cboom must have left his home without his helmet on again.

I believe Cboom does have some credentials to back up his statements. He was second in his class at "ESPNS FOOTBALL SCHOOL FOR THE BLIND"....He finished second to a guy named Mike Carey. I wonder what that guy is up to these days?.....oh wait......

Worst QB. LOL Where Cbuum go?

Oh god. I had forgotten this thread. From back just a few weeks ago when most of this board was calling Wilson a bust and screaming for Flynn. Kinda funny to look back now, just 12 weeks later, and just giggle.

cboom wrote:Sando was spot on. In fact throughout the game the receivers made some great catches on bad throws. Wilson is the worst QB I have seen as a Hawks fan. And I have been around long enough to see them all.

Ahahahahaha, put in Flynn!

He's our only hope!

I believe cboom wore out his welcome here shortly after arrival, so those looking for responses won't get any.

HansGruber wrote:Oh god. I had forgotten this thread. From back just a few weeks ago when most of this board was calling Wilson a bust and screaming for Flynn. Kinda funny to look back now, just 12 weeks later, and just giggle.

You are the only one that forgot about this thread - agree that it is funny to bring back up but the "worst qb quote" is classic and we should all be thankful for this contribution before cboom ran off.

Lets face it when the Seahawks go to the superbowl within a few years this quote will be in the thread before that weekend........