Bah, we lost our cap guy.

Brian McIntyre ‏@brian_mcintyre
“@JasonLaCanfora: The Jets have hired John Idzik, formerly of the Seahawks, as their new GM. Done deal. Negotiations are complete.”

Oh well...Next man UP!!!!!!

Have fun with that mess in NY Idzippy.

One more place to trade Flynn.

Man, I really hate how we keep losing our staff guys..........can't we have the same guys from one year to the next lol.

It's all about Pete and the Schneid! Everyone else is just a lackey.


....says the guy with the Dan Quinn avatar.

Reinfeldt is still available and was more talented than Idzik.

Blitzer88 wrote:Man, I really hate how we keep losing our staff guys..........can't we have the same guys from one year to the next lol.

You want to lose your coaches and personnel, it means you're successful.

Pete and John is all we need, the rest of the staff is just frosting. Look at NE, Belicheat's lost just about every coach 2-3 times over, and they're still on top.

When your FO is talented you lose guys to teams that have needs. That Jets cap situation has been horribly managed and is just a bad joke; Idzik is going to be reviled for the things he will need to do.

jammerhawk wrote:Reinfeldt is still available and was more talented than Idzik.

Lol... "more talented". How does one determine the respective talent level of cap specialists?

jammerhawk wrote:When your FO is talented you lose guys to teams that have needs.......

This, unfortunately.

FlyingGreg wrote:

jammerhawk wrote:Reinfeldt is still available and was more talented than Idzik.

Lol... "more talented". How does one determine the respective talent level of cap specialists?

That's what I was seriously going to ask...

FlyingGreg wrote:

jammerhawk wrote:Reinfeldt is still available and was more talented than Idzik.

Lol... "more talented". How does one determine the respective talent level of cap specialists?

Ill tell you, that guy Reinfeldt is a whiz on his calculator! A real up and coming player in the cap game!

Not really interested in rehashing Reinfeldt. He had a big part in us losing Hutchinson.

FlyingGreg wrote:

jammerhawk wrote:Reinfeldt is still available and was more talented than Idzik.

Lol... "more talented". How does one determine the respective talent level of cap specialists?

Maybe that is the point. How has shown some talents OUTSIDE of figuring out the cap and calculator

The Jets are some $10-$15 MILLION over the cap going into 2013 from what I read (don't recall the exact number). They probably figured the best guy at figuring out the cap and contract negotiations is what they need.

I think 99% of sports fan could have told them that when they resigned Sanchez last year.......

volsunghawk wrote:Not really interested in rehashing Reinfeldt. He had a big part in us losing Hutchinson.

Really? I'd love a link cuz I was convinced it was nearly if not all Timmmaaaaay. He made jokes about being 'the guy that lost Hutch' being put on his tombstone and by looking at his drafts it was obvious he saw o-lineman as eminently and consistently replacable.

hawksfansinceday1 wrote:

volsunghawk wrote:Not really interested in rehashing Reinfeldt. He had a big part in us losing Hutchinson.

Really? I'd love a link cuz I was convinced it was nearly if not all Timmmaaaaay. He made jokes about being 'the guy that lost Hutch' being put on his tombstone and by looking at his drafts it was obvious he saw o-lineman as eminently and consistently replacable.

And even if he was, do you think Pete and the Schneid are going to listen to him if he says some dumb shit like "Release Earl Thomas and we'll save 2.6% against the cap in 2016!". They'll tell him to cork his cry hole and go back to playing with his abacus.

As long as this team has Russell Wilson, everything is fine with me.

Steve2222 wrote:As long as this team has Russell Wilson, everything is fine with me.

In fact, I bet Wilson is already studying film on new cap guys.

hawksfansinceday1 wrote:

volsunghawk wrote:Not really interested in rehashing Reinfeldt. He had a big part in us losing Hutchinson.

Really? I'd love a link cuz I was convinced it was nearly if not all Timmmaaaaay. He made jokes about being 'the guy that lost Hutch' being put on his tombstone and by looking at his drafts it was obvious he saw o-lineman as eminently and consistently replacable.

I remember Ruskell saying he and Reinfeldt thought it was prudent to make Hutch a Transition Tag player and some of it was based on Reinfeldt's thinking that guards just weren't worth the type of money Hutch would have gotten. This was around the time Holmgren was catching wind of the change in tags while at the winter meetings.

I still believe that the NFL should have allowed a re-do of the tagging process after they reached the 11th hour agreement on the CBA back then, which gave teams a nice boost in cap space. Figured that was part of the penny-pinching efforts Ruskell and Reinfeldt opted for.

In hindsight, Ruskell should have figured on the increase and anticipated the poison pill, though Blue Talon will dispute that last thought.

In Ruskell We Trust!

volsunghawk wrote:Not really interested in rehashing Reinfeldt. He had a big part in us losing Hutchinson.

The cap guy doesn't make that decision. The cap guy tells the decision makers what the cap status of the team is and how it will be affected in different situations. You can't blame the cap guy for the GM deciding that it was better for our bottom line and worth the risk to hang Hutch out there for the taking. You also can't blame a cap guy for another team using trickery to make a deal. All he is responsible for is giving the proper information related to the cap to the right people. What they do with that information is on them.

With that said, I don't see this as a huge loss for us. We have lots of room under the cap and not too many guys even eligible to re-up their contracts yet. Because our team is so young, anyone who is brought in now, will have a relatively easy job of it and plenty of time to get used to our situation before things start to get interesting.

Ill tell you, that guy Reinfeldt is a whiz on his calculator! A real up and coming player in the cap game![/quote]

I can't imagine that it is good for the calculator if you whiz on it!

hawksfansinceday1 wrote:

volsunghawk wrote:Not really interested in rehashing Reinfeldt. He had a big part in us losing Hutchinson.

Really? I'd love a link cuz I was convinced it was nearly if not all Timmmaaaaay. He made jokes about being 'the guy that lost Hutch' being put on his tombstone and by looking at his drafts it was obvious he saw o-lineman as eminently and consistently replacable.

http://www.komonews.com/sports/5756051.html

Reinfeldt was part of the decision to designate Pro Bowl guard Steve Hutchinson a transition player instead of a franchise player last offseason. Hutchinson signed with Minnesota in free agency after the Vikings included an unprecedented "poison pill" contract provision Seattle could not match.

I'm not saying I would expect him to do exactly the same thing again, but to me, this signified a guy who didn't understand the value of Hutch to the O-line and team as a whole. I would worry about him having a voice in the FO if he still has blind spots that big.

I don't think losing our cap guy will impact the team as much as losing another coach this year,...I'm sure they will get a good replacement for Idzik,...I think Reinfeldt would be a good choice ,...but whoever it is,.." in J and P we trust",....

Sgt. Largent wrote:

Blitzer88 wrote:Man, I really hate how we keep losing our staff guys..........can't we have the same guys from one year to the next lol.

You want to lose your coaches and personnel, it means you're successful.

Pete and John is all we need, the rest of the staff is just frosting. Look at NE, Belicheat's lost just about every coach 2-3 times over, and they're still on top.

I don't think you "want" to lose them. Especially if those guys truly did get you to where you are (we won't know until we see the effect of them being gone). I'd say it's more of an unwanted compliment.

Hamhawk wrote:I don't think losing our cap guy will impact the team as much as losing another coach this year,...I'm sure they will get a good replacement for Idzik,...I think Reinfeldt would be a good choice ,...but whoever it is,.." in J and P we trust",....

Look, let us pretend that the whole Hutch mess was all on Reinfeldt...that doesn't change the fact that he is known to be very good at NFL franchise economics. Also, who hasn't screwed something up in their life and then grown from it, there is no way he lets something like that happen on his watch a second time. So this may not be such a bad match.

What!! How are we going to find someone that knows how to add...AND Subtract?! Ffffffffuuuuh.... that's the end. We're doomed!!

The Vikings pulling the poisen pill routine was unprecedented, guaranteeing that Hutch would be the top payid lineman as part of his contract was an obvious situation to not be able to negotiate a contract with him with Jones here. They knew that. Historically teams did not pull that stuff and Reinfeldt was basing his thoughts on a degree of good sportsmanship between front offices at that time.

Yes we put him out there and the thought was it should have been the franchise tag after the fact. But the process up to then had been one of good will in negotiations between teams and not undermineing one.

The Poison Pill wasn't a new issue in 2005, it just never had been "officially" used in an NFL contract.

The advent of the poison pill was first introduced to the public by 49ers President Carmen Policy in 1996. The 49ers intended to sign Giants running back Rodney Hampton to an offer sheet with a poison pill that stated Hampton would be "on the field for 70% of the offensive plays over the next 2 seasons." The Giants had drafted Tyrone Wheatley with their first round pick in 1995 but he was largely ineffective in his first season. Since he played the same position as Hampton, the Giants had planned to ease him into the offense with Hampton on the back end of his career. For the Giants to match the 6 year deal, they would be forced to play Hampton in 70% of the plays, thus making the previous year's draft pick of Wheatley a loss. The 49ers later decided to not include the clause, as they felt the NFL would never approve the terms. Their assumption would be proven incorrect following the 2005 season, with the historic offer sheet Steve Hutchinson signed with the Minnesota Vikings.

Poison Pills. Only the Seahawks would fall for it.

Nice thread high jack

jammerhawk wrote:Reinfeldt is still available and was more talented than Idzik.

Really? I didn't know that. He was great when he was here, and I agree, more taented than Idzik. Don't know how good JS is with that sort of stuff, but it seems like we need somebody. And pretty soon, huh?

How can a cap guy be a GM?

The Battle #83 wrote:How can a cap guy be a GM?

83, best question I have heard all day.

My guess is Idzik is there to get them out of the salary cap issues, and is not expected to have say so in personnel. Woody and Rex are handling that.

You need a hitman to take out Sanchez to get them out of cap hell lol. How do they keep - get rid of him AND sign a guy that can play...

Scottemojo wrote:

The Battle #83 wrote:How can a cap guy be a GM?

83, best question I have heard all day.

My guess is Idzik is there to get them out of the salary cap issues, and is not expected to have say so in personnel. Woody and Rex are handling that.

My not hire an accountant then?

Wasn't Schnieder considered a cap guy when he was hired on here?

Throwdown wrote:Wasn't Schnieder considered a cap guy when he was hired on here?

Nope. that is the job Idzik had. Schneider has always been valued for his scouting eye (which is how we got bot Whitehurst, grrrr, and Wilson, yippee.

drdiags wrote:In hindsight, Ruskell should have figured on the increase and anticipated the poison pill, though Blue Talon will dispute that last thought.

Oh right, people should always expect something that has never happened before...



For people who need a refresher, poison pills in contracts have a long history. One was used early in the existence of NFL free agency requiring more money from the player's old team than his new team -- after that, such contracts were banned. Since that time, perfectly legal and legitimate poison pills have been commonly used by teams trying to spirit a player away, in the form of front-loaded contracts, trying to leverage the other team's cap situation. That was something the Seahawks were prepared for in the Hutch situation. What they were not prepared for was the never-before-seen use of guarantees, and language involving other players' salaries and arbitrary dates, to effectively do what was previously banned.

Doesn't matter now. Lesson learned, life goes on. I'm over it.

Schneider/Carroll, then Cable, in descending order of who we can least afford to lose. Everyone else who cares. LMAO at teams thinking that installing Bradley or Bevell as HC is going to change their fortunes. Bradley was here before JS/Pete came in and began making pro-bowlers out of 5th round castoffs on defense, and oddly enough Bradley's defenses weren't so great back then.

A cap guy doesn't even make the radar.

I'm ecstatic we haven't heard many rumors about Cable leaving. Okay so pass pro hasn't been outstanding, but Cable seems to be able to fashion a run blocking line no matter who is injured, and after the years where we'd be screwed all season when one lineman would go down, this is euphoria.

However we need to avoid listening to Cable when it comes to drafting players. The Carpenter/Moffit picks aren't exactly living up to their slots. Well not yet at any rate. I'm assuming those were his suggestion.

Bradley: Carroll:: Idzik: Schneider.

Or that's my guess.

BlueTalon wrote:

drdiags wrote:In hindsight, Ruskell should have figured on the increase and anticipated the poison pill, though Blue Talon will dispute that last thought.

Oh right, people should always expect something that has never happened before...

:

And again, I don't agree with your review of the history

The advent of the poison pill was first introduced to the public by 49ers President Carmen Policy in 1996. The 49ers intended to sign Giants running back Rodney Hampton to an offer sheet with a poison pill that stated Hampton would be "on the field for 70% of the offensive plays over the next 2 seasons." The Giants had drafted Tyrone Wheatley with their first round pick in 1995 but he was largely ineffective in his first season. Since he played the same position as Hampton, the Giants had planned to ease him into the offense with Hampton on the back end of his career. For the Giants to match the 6 year deal, they would be forced to play Hampton in 70% of the plays, thus making the previous year's draft pick of Wheatley a loss. The 49ers later decided to not include the clause, as they felt the NFL would never approve the terms. Their assumption would be proven incorrect following the 2005 season, with the historic offer sheet Steve Hutchinson signed with the Minnesota Vikings.

I agreed with the original call done by Ruskell, though I didn't know of the possibility of a Poison Pill. I was just joking around so I am not sure what is up with the "rolling eyes" icon. Thought we were better than that.

drdiags wrote:I was just joking around so I am not sure what is up with the "rolling eyes" icon. Thought we were better than that.

That wasn't the operative icon.

drdiags wrote:I was just joking around so I am not sure what is up with the "rolling eyes" icon. Thought we were better than that.

You thought an internet message board was better than using a rolling eyes emoticon? Doc, you're slippin'! Not grounded to reality anymore!!

RolandDeschain wrote:

drdiags wrote:I was just joking around so I am not sure what is up with the "rolling eyes" icon. Thought we were better than that.

You thought an internet message board was better than using a rolling eyes emoticon? Doc, you're slippin'! Not grounded to reality anymore!!

Yeah, I know. Blue and I have hung out IRL so the expectations were a little different. With most it just is the way it is. Doesn't mean this is how we all have to act. So yes, I am living in the land of lollipops and rainbows. Now if it was you, I wouldn't even bat an eyebrow. I would expect it.

Can I take the strait jacket off now?

I knew you were having a little fun with me, I was just having a little fun with you back. Sorry if it came across as anything different.

BlueTalon wrote:I knew you were having a little fun with me, I was just having a little fun with you back. Sorry if it came across as anything different.

No we are good. I was just giving Roland some lip. Next brew is on me if we ever get to another Mariner game. Though you living on the eastern side of the state, that might be tough.

volsunghawk wrote:

hawksfansinceday1 wrote:

volsunghawk wrote:Not really interested in rehashing Reinfeldt. He had a big part in us losing Hutchinson.

Really? I'd love a link cuz I was convinced it was nearly if not all Timmmaaaaay. He made jokes about being 'the guy that lost Hutch' being put on his tombstone and by looking at his drafts it was obvious he saw o-lineman as eminently and consistently replacable.

http://www.komonews.com/sports/5756051.html

Reinfeldt was part of the decision to designate Pro Bowl guard Steve Hutchinson a transition player instead of a franchise player last offseason. Hutchinson signed with Minnesota in free agency after the Vikings included an unprecedented "poison pill" contract provision Seattle could not match.

I'm not saying I would expect him to do exactly the same thing again, but to me, this signified a guy who didn't understand the value of Hutch to the O-line and team as a whole. I would worry about him having a voice in the FO if he still has blind spots that big.

If anything, this would now be a PLUS for Reinfeldt. He's seen it all. I guarantee his blind spots are small to nonexistent in that area. And as part of a team with a CAPABLE GM, like Schneider, instead of a FOOL like Ruskell, Reinfeldt would probably be a great fit.

If you were just served with divorce papers by a soon-to-be ex who has a sociopathic personality disorder, wouldn't you want your attorney to be someone who's seen it all, been through the battles, got the scars, and the had the experience and LEARNING on effective strategies on how to keep from having to fight the battles in the first place? When someone like a Reinfeldt goes through a situation like the Hutch thing, you better believe there was some serious education and experience gained.
It's like that old saying, "when a man with money meets a man with experience, the man with the experience is going to get some money, and the man with money is going to get some experience." Reinfeldt would have "experience" now.

All that said, I'm sure JS/PC will find someone good as the next man up for that job, Reinfeldt, or whoever.

jammerhawk wrote:Reinfeldt is still available and was more talented than Idzik.

You mean this guy, the Prime Minister of Sweden?

We are going to be in dire need of a cap wizard Genius evil overlord in a year or 2. We are going to be in piss poor shape once all these rooks,2nd, and 3rd year players start getting their 2nd contracts...

That sucks. I got a family member that does his wifes hair and could get free tickets sometimes. Now I'm gonna have to just fork up the doe. I was wanting season tickets anyway. Does any one know when the whole amount has to be payed off for the season tix?

Smoke wrote:We are going to be in dire need of a cap wizard Genius evil overlord in a year or 2. We are going to be in piss poor shape once all these rooks,2nd, and 3rd year players start getting their 2nd contracts...

The front office is going to have to decide who's worth the money and who they can replace. It would not surprise me if Browner and Chancellor end up casualties in the secondary for instance.