Trade Rice?

The Essential Online Seahawks Fan Forum Community. There simply is NO substitute. RATING: PG-13
Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:17 am
  • To begin with, I love Rice
    I love his toughness.

    But is he the right receiver for Seattle? The answer is yes, except we have Tate. Basically both are not the deep down field receivers that demand double coverage.

    Hawks really need a receiver that can break down field, that can demand double coverage and take a lot of pressure off of the other receiver.

    Why I suggest Rice, is simply cost. He will be about 9 million next year?

    Lets say for example than we get Wallace via FA, what about 12 million? Sure, a lot of money, but not that much more than what were paying for Rice.. ok maybe a little.

    I don't know how much it will be to sign Wallace so, this is all speculation of course.

    But what we get with Wallace.. is huge

    Greater spacing in the middle of the field for Tate and the TE's
    Greater Yard per catch.
    Double team'd to get everyone else one on one.
    a biggy here.. Less time Russell needs to look for a receiver, there by minimizing injury potential.
    Bigger spacing for the runners to run through.

    The benefits are huge.

    Some bonuses.
    We will be compensated for Rice. what we get.. I don't know, we gave a 1st for Branch.
    Wallace has been pretty much injury free.
    If we parlay it right, we could with the draft choice get one of those outstanding TE's (3) that are available, I'm likeing the kid from Cincinnati.

    Travis Kelce.

    Cincinnati senior Travis Kelce (younger brother of Eagles center, Jason Kelce) might have the most complete skillset of them all, though. A 6'6" 260 pound sledgehammer with speed and strength, Kelce will undoubtedly draw comparisons to Patriots tight end Rob Gronkowski as he goes through the pre-draft process.
    Part of what makes Gronkowski such an impressive NFL tight end (and why Kelce compares favorably to him) is because he's a strong, technically sound, and tenacious blocker, and the Bearcats use his talents in a number of ways in their run game.

    too.. THis gives us the best of all worlds as far as receivers go..
    we have the
    Pure route runner in Bouldwin.
    helter-skelter receiver in Tate
    and the Breakaway guy in Wallace.


    Anyway,, thoughts?
    User avatar
    Bobblehead
    NET Rookie
     
    Posts: 286
    Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:52 am


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:20 am
  • Good reasoning, although I'd prefer Rice to Wallace. I can definitely see the advantage to having a deep threat, though. I just really like what Rice brings to the field. Wilson was frequently able to use Rice's height and accompanying catching ability as an advantage and he was also capable of getting behind the secondary on occasion. I think adding another pass-catching tight end is what would help this receiving corps the most. Miller had a huge impact in the last 4-5 games and I'd like to think that adding another tight end might help us pick up 10-20 yards at a time to march down the field in the manner we became accustomed to.

    I'd also like to see another good season like the last one from Tate before getting too giddy about him. The talent is there, let's see more.
    User avatar
    Hawkspur
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1284
    Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:12 pm


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:41 am
  • Best case scenario would be Rice our #1 (do-it-all receiver), Wallace our #2 (deep threat), Tate #3 (explosive YAC TD machine), Baldwin #4 (precise route runner, 1st down gainer, rotate to slot situationally) with Miller the TE (consistent catch in traffic chain-mover) and a rookie Draft pick on an more explosive seam stretching TE/H-Back in the Aaron Hernandez mold. With a FA signing at guard or RT, that'd be a legit of off season offensive make over. Unstoppable

    Might seem like a waste to have Baldwin at #4 but with how often Sid gets hurt he will undoubtedly see alot of snaps eventually. Plus Tate is a FA soon and could command a hefty contract
    Image

    Anyone want to make me a new signature? I've held out hope long enough.
    95% of the time I'm viewing here and/or posting is being done on a mobile device. Pardon any spelling, punctuation, or grammar mistakes.
    User avatar
    The Yugoslavian
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 879
    Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 9:45 am
    Location: Bellevue, WA


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:03 am
  • I live a couple hours south of Pittsburgh and have a lot of family and friends who are Steelers fans and none of them want to resign him. Word is he is just big and fast. Cannot run good routes, takes plays off and drops as many as he catches. He's a diva that thinks he is so much better than he is. I pray we don't sign this guy.
    User avatar
    garrylt4
    NET Rookie
     
    Posts: 115
    Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 6:19 pm


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:07 am
  • I just love how people want to trade our best players away for perceived value elsewhere.

    I guess the grass is always greener on the other side of the hill.

    :229031_shrug:
    Talent can get you to the playoffs.
    It takes character to win when you get there.

    SUPER BOWL XLVIII CHAMPIONS
    User avatar
    sutz
    USMC 1970-77
     
    Posts: 10226
    Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:41 am
    Location: Monroe, WA


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:39 am
  • It seems like Rice finds himself in bracketed coverage quite a bit. He's definitely a focus of opposing defenses. I'm not saying Wallace isn't an upgrade, but I don't think a team will part with a decent pick or player for Rice and his contract. If we sign Wallace, we'd be all but forced to release Rice, which would make his trade value all but nothing.
    User avatar
    pinksheets
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2836
    Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:47 pm
    Location: Seattle


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:05 am
  • Looking at the stats alone, Wallace is a way better upgrade, there is really no comparison.

    I love Rice and his grittiness, but Wallace is def a difference maker. He's not a perceived value else where..

    Flynn would be a perceived value, Wallace is a tangible value, there's no question.

    The thing is, you can't have both, way to much money tied up into assets that are not a real necessity as is our concern is at the DL.
    User avatar
    Bobblehead
    NET Rookie
     
    Posts: 286
    Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:52 am


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:15 am
  • I don't think a Wallace signing would force Rice to be released because he didn't have a role. The two could coexist and would actually thrive and benefit each other in my opinion.
    Image

    Anyone want to make me a new signature? I've held out hope long enough.
    95% of the time I'm viewing here and/or posting is being done on a mobile device. Pardon any spelling, punctuation, or grammar mistakes.
    User avatar
    The Yugoslavian
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 879
    Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 9:45 am
    Location: Bellevue, WA


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:15 am
  • garrylt4 wrote:I live a couple hours south of Pittsburgh and have a lot of family and friends who are Steelers fans and none of them want to resign him. Word is he is just big and fast. Cannot run good routes, takes plays off and drops as many as he catches. He's a diva that thinks he is so much better than he is. I pray we don't sign this guy.


    Have you looked at his stats?
    I was reading about him dropping passes, and what they say is that he actually drops less passes than the league average.

    You have to remember something here about Wallace, it's not just about him catching passes, he will be double team contstaantly. It's about him taking pressure off of Tate, so that Tate has a better chance of getting free.

    Taking plays off? Of course he does.. he's playing for the Steelers, I'd want to take some plays off.. no way would he want to take ANY play off once he plays with RW :)
    User avatar
    Bobblehead
    NET Rookie
     
    Posts: 286
    Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:52 am


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:34 am
  • I doubt we could get more than a third for Rice.
    User avatar
    Rat
    * NET Cynic *
     
    Posts: 3555
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:42 pm
    Location: St. Louis, MO


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:57 am
  • I thought John Clayton had a great point on this the other day about why Wallace would not be a good fit here. It was about the number of throws per game and him already whining about the number of targets he gets. He continued on about the stats being important to Wallace and not being a team guy that Seattle has been targeting. I looked for a link I stopped after the third radio program that had different coments then the ones I heard. He then went on to explain that Snider is more likely to go for a WR in the draft and go after several DT in FA. Sorry no link
    "Go Hawks" Russlemainia
    Adopt a Rookie - Jackson Jeffcoat
    User avatar
    SeaHawk80
    NET Rookie
     
    Posts: 244
    Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:53 am
    Location: Pe Ell, WA


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:16 am
  • Rice's contract is not tradeable.

    Besides that...no you don't trade a player like Sidney Rice.

    Is it training camp yet?
    @SeahawkGreg

    Image

    "I will be thrilled with 10 wins.... If we win 14 games, I will tattoo my nuts green and blue!" --13thMan
    User avatar
    FlyingGreg
    * Master Chief *
    * Master Chief *
     
    Posts: 7534
    Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:19 am
    Location: CVN-68


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:45 am
  • Dude Rice is a Seahawk and lets just keep it that way for awhile before we start with this. I'd like to get MW but not at Rices expense. How about getting rid of Obo, Martin, or some other dead weight. :141847_bnono: Sidney Rice. I was happy we got him and I'd hate to see him go.
    User avatar
    garydrake425
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 912
    Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:28 am
    Location: Seattle , Wa


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:45 am
  • This year Rice had to be patient while bringing along a rookie QB. I expect they will be on the same page next season and have bigger results. You don't trade a solid team first guy. They are to hard to come by. Look what happened to the jets after they traded Cotchery.
    User avatar
    brimsalabim
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1533
    Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2012 6:50 am


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:47 am
  • I disagree. Rice is 26, rarely drops balls, is tough, and actually gets open down field pretty well.

    I'm excited to see what a full off-season of Wilson working with his receivers is going to do.
    "Authority should derive from the consent of the governed, not from the threat of force."

    - Barbie from Toy Story 3
    User avatar
    fenderbender123
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2471
    Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:47 pm


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:22 am
  • Rice has been open down field all year long for easy TD's, Wilson simply does not see him.
    User avatar
    Axx
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2539
    Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:37 pm


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:17 am
  • I know this is oversimplification, but we were a better team last year than Pittsburgh. I don't see us having gone any further with Wallace than we did with Rice. Our problem last year was a defense that failed with 30 seconds left. The offense was great for the last half of the season. Why get rid of your best receiver for a malcontent who may not fit in?

    People act like Rice was a diva or griped. He raised his arms on one play when he was open by 30 yards in the endzone. I don't blame him. He was frustrated. He didn't get in a fight with his QB or coaches. He just saw a blown opportunity and was frustrated. End of story. He's a great teammate on a great team. Wallace is a whiner on an overrated team.

    The grass is certainly not always greener. Sidney Rice was good enough to be the #1 receiver on a team that would have likely played in a Superbowl with a defense that could have held in 2 games but didn't. Focus should be on defense so that we can close games out.
    Image
    R.I.P. Dad. I miss you. You will never be forgotten
    1/12/39 - 8/7/08
    User avatar
    SharkHawk
    * NET Alumni *
     
    Posts: 3883
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:47 am


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:41 am
  • I really wouldn't want to trade Rice ... I think he is a very valuable asset both in terms of skills and making the Seahawks a team. I think he will have a great next season.
    User avatar
    The Outfield
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2242
    Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:11 am


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:19 pm
  • The only guys on this roster with excellent trade value, are not going anywhere.

    No one is trading for Sidney Rice with the FA WR's available and the amount of talent in the draft. Besides.. why the hell would you move him when your next best option is Golden Tate?
    February 2, 2014... the day the dream was finally realized
    User avatar
    Hasselbeck
    * NET Sage *
     
    Posts: 5117
    Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 4:55 pm


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:34 pm
  • We don't have to make up fake dilemmas to pass the next 6 months or ask ourselves specious questions. There are literally three other things we could do, if count sleeping and rocking backwards and forwards whilst staring at a calendar. A few of us are making make-believe film, which is marginally less of waste of time than discussing the pros and cons of trading our best WR with the shaky injury history and the huge contract.
    Machine-wrapped, with butter?

    Yes, machine-wrapped, WITH BUTTER
    User avatar
    cdallan
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 810
    Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 1:08 am
    Location: Scotland


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:45 pm
  • Rice brought down a lot of tough balls, took a lot of hits and played all season in a year he was a little beat up. He has a rapport with Wilson IN GAMES and he does draw coverage.

    I say keep him because he is still solid and should be far more productive this year. The guy is a gamer IMHO and with Wilson growing, so should Rice.
    "The life you lose may be your own" - Drunk dude at the bar
    User avatar
    loafoftatupu
    I'M JIMMY!
     
    Posts: 5885
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:17 pm
    Location: Auburn, WA


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:15 pm
  • cdallan wrote:We don't have to make up fake dilemmas to pass the next 6 months or ask ourselves specious questions. There are literally three other things we could do, if count sleeping and rocking backwards and forwards whilst staring at a calendar. A few of us are making make-believe film, which is marginally less of waste of time than discussing the pros and cons of trading our best WR with the shaky injury history and the huge contract.


    Answer this question for me first. When is the last time that a good player in his prime was traded? Then, add in the fact he is on a contender with no cap issues, he hasn't fallen out with the team, isn't coming to the end of his contract and doesn't have a tradeable contract or an obvious replacement.
    What makes this in any way likely?
    Machine-wrapped, with butter?

    Yes, machine-wrapped, WITH BUTTER
    User avatar
    cdallan
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 810
    Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 1:08 am
    Location: Scotland


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:20 pm
  • We could trade him for Kelly Jennings
    "Pete Carroll brings in great elves...and they make the best presents."
    User avatar
    SacHawk2.0
    .NOT a Moderator
     
    Posts: 10367
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:51 pm
    Location: With a white girl


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:04 pm
  • Bobblehead wrote:
    garrylt4 wrote:I live a couple hours south of Pittsburgh and have a lot of family and friends who are Steelers fans and none of them want to resign him. Word is he is just big and fast. Cannot run good routes, takes plays off and drops as many as he catches. He's a diva that thinks he is so much better than he is. I pray we don't sign this guy.


    Have you looked at his stats?
    I was reading about him dropping passes, and what they say is that he actually drops less passes than the league average.

    You have to remember something here about Wallace, it's not just about him catching passes, he will be double team contstaantly. It's about him taking pressure off of Tate, so that Tate has a better chance of getting free.

    Taking plays off? Of course he does.. he's playing for the Steelers, I'd want to take some plays off.. no way would he want to take ANY play off once he plays with RW :)


    One thing no one brings up in the Wallace desire is his lack of blocking. All of our current receivers are decent to good blockers and do their part consistently. Wallace on the other hand is not even a decent blocker. In fact, there are some out there who claim that his contribution to run blocking is running a fly route to remove his CB from playing the run.

    There is no one who can convince me that Pete would be ok with that. I believe we kept Charly Martin last season over better receiving threats primarily because he is a good blocker.
    FIRE CABLE!
    Image
    User avatar
    BASF
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1537
    Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:07 pm


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:06 pm
  • BASF wrote:One thing no one brings up in the Wallace desire is his lack of blocking. All of our current receivers are decent to good blockers and do their part consistently. Wallace on the other hand is not even a decent blocker. In fact, there are some out there who claim that his contribution to run blocking is running a fly route to remove his CB from playing the run.

    There is no one who can convince me that Pete would be ok with that. I believe we kept Charly Martin last season over better receiving threats primarily because he is a good blocker.


    Showtime Tate and Sidney Sherman are both good open field blockers. Heck Wilson is a better down field blocker than Wallace.
    User avatar
    Axx
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2539
    Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2012 12:37 pm


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:15 pm
  • Hawkspur wrote:Good reasoning, although I'd prefer Rice to Wallace. I can definitely see the advantage to having a deep threat, though. I just really like what Rice brings to the field. Wilson was frequently able to use Rice's height and accompanying catching ability as an advantage and he was also capable of getting behind the secondary on occasion. I think adding another pass-catching tight end is what would help this receiving corps the most. Miller had a huge impact in the last 4-5 games and I'd like to think that adding another tight end might help us pick up 10-20 yards at a time to march down the field in the manner we became accustomed to.

    I'd also like to see another good season like the last one from Tate before getting too giddy about him. The talent is there, let's see more.


    Agreed, Rice has significantly better hands than Wallace, one thing I love about Rice is his catch radius. He can go up and get a poorly thrown ball, not every receiver can do that.

    If we add Wallace I don't want it to be at the expense of Rice.
    WestcoastSteve
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1155
    Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2009 1:00 pm


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:17 pm
  • Bobblehead wrote:
    garrylt4 wrote:Taking plays off? Of course he does.. he's playing for the Steelers, I'd want to take some plays off.. no way would he want to take ANY play off once he plays with RW :)


    :179422:

    "Our organization is so great "said player" will stop being lazy when he comes here.

    Give me a guy who bust his butt on a 2-14 team, that's who I want.
    WestcoastSteve
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1155
    Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2009 1:00 pm


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 4:39 pm
  • Many people look at stats and say that player is soooooooooo much better then our player. If you have any brains you then look at the system they are in and then who else they have on the team. Wilson was hamstrung the first half of the season and Rice was still coming back form his injuries. We are a run first team or at least a very balanced team. Pissburgh had little to no running game as well so Ben was throwing more. We spread the ball all over and use crossing patterns and outs a lot.

    All these add up to less individual stats but less predictable offense where everyone wins not just one player. We also ask all our receivers to block downfield which with having size helps against LB's and safetys. There are aspects of his game that don't turn up in stat sheets.
    Image

    To Be P/C or Not P/C That is the Question..........Seahawks kick Ass !!!!
    Check your PM's, Thank you for everything Radish RIP My Friend. :les:
    Member of the 38 club.
    User avatar
    chris98251
    .NET Hijacker
     
    Posts: 11202
    Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:52 pm
    Location: Renton Wa.


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:08 pm
  • Hawkspur wrote:Good reasoning, although I'd prefer Rice to Wallace. I can definitely see the advantage to having a deep threat, though. I just really like what Rice brings to the field. Wilson was frequently able to use Rice's height and accompanying catching ability as an advantage and he was also capable of getting behind the secondary on occasion. I think adding another pass-catching tight end is what would help this receiving corps the most. Miller had a huge impact in the last 4-5 games and I'd like to think that adding another tight end might help us pick up 10-20 yards at a time to march down the field in the manner we became accustomed to.

    I'd also like to see another good season like the last one from Tate before getting too giddy about him. The talent is there, let's see more.

    I think the notion is that Golden Tate was pretty much a non factor in the previous two Seasons leading up to last Year and then he seemed to get it going, BUT who did Tate have throwing him the ball?, Hasselbeck?,,He couldn't buy time to save his butt, let alone find Tate, who was trying to establish himself.
    TJack?, he seemed to make more of a connection with Baldwin, plus, Baldwin was Jacksons first target and while healthy, was doing a fantastic job with the chemistry there, so you stay with what works.
    Wilson changes everything about the Seahawks Offense with his abilities to read Defenses, scrambles to buy time, so the Receivers have to rework their skills to try and mesh up.
    Tate and Wilson seems to have made some kind of mental connection, so I think Tate is going to be a big continuety factor going foreward with Wilson.
    I would like to see a big speedster receiver join the Wilson attack next Season, though I'm not so sure that we shouldn't first bolster the O-Line, to get Wilson just a little more read time in the pocket. :thirishdrinkers:
    scutterhawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 3636
    Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 8:48 pm


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:23 pm
  • When you make a trade i would hope you are trading a player away from a position of strength. The wide receiver position is not a position of strength. So no
    Image
    User avatar
    Tech Worlds
    * Capt'n Dom *
    * Capt'n Dom *
     
    Posts: 9712
    Joined: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:40 am
    Location: Granite Falls, WA


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:44 pm
  • Bobblehead wrote:To begin with, I love Rice
    I love his toughness.

    But is he the right receiver for Seattle? The answer is yes, except we have Tate. Basically both are not the deep down field receivers that demand double coverage.
    Hawks really need a receiver that can break down field, that can demand double coverage and take a lot of pressure off of the other receiver.

    Why I suggest Rice, is simply cost. He will be about 9 million next year?

    Lets say for example than we get Wallace via FA, what about 12 million? Sure, a lot of money, but not that much more than what were paying for Rice.. ok maybe a little.

    I don't know how much it will be to sign Wallace so, this is all speculation of course.

    But what we get with Wallace.. is huge

    Greater spacing in the middle of the field for Tate and the TE's
    Greater Yard per catch.
    Double team'd to get everyone else one on one.
    a biggy here.. Less time Russell needs to look for a receiver, there by minimizing injury potential.
    Bigger spacing for the runners to run through.

    The benefits are huge.

    Some bonuses.
    We will be compensated for Rice. what we get.. I don't know, we gave a 1st for Branch.
    Wallace has been pretty much injury free.
    If we parlay it right, we could with the draft choice get one of those outstanding TE's (3) that are available, I'm likeing the kid from Cincinnati.

    Travis Kelce.

    Cincinnati senior Travis Kelce (younger brother of Eagles center, Jason Kelce) might have the most complete skillset of them all, though. A 6'6" 260 pound sledgehammer with speed and strength, Kelce will undoubtedly draw comparisons to Patriots tight end Rob Gronkowski as he goes through the pre-draft process.
    Part of what makes Gronkowski such an impressive NFL tight end (and why Kelce compares favorably to him) is because he's a strong, technically sound, and tenacious blocker, and the Bearcats use his talents in a number of ways in their run game.

    too.. THis gives us the best of all worlds as far as receivers go..
    we have the
    Pure route runner in Bouldwin.
    helter-skelter receiver in Tate
    and the Breakaway guy in Wallace.


    Anyway,, thoughts?


    Tate and Rice are not the same type of receivers. Going downfield is about the only thing they have in common but that doesn't make them same type of receivers. Tate doesn't make Rice expendable.
    User avatar
    hawkfan68
    *GOLD SUPPORTER*
    *GOLD SUPPORTER*
     
    Posts: 3790
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:10 am
    Location: Sammamish, WA


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:53 pm
  • The thing is, I"m not advocating this is what we do, in fact, I"m quite happy with our receivers, in fact our receivers I"m not even concerned about, but it seems there are a lot that feel we need to upgrade it. The only way I see we do is by procuring the correct receiver, if not by draft then by FA. If we do go by FA, the chances are it will be expensive and the only viable solution I see would be to trade or void the contract of the most expensive receiver we have because I don't want us paying up to's what 30 million for a wr group.

    Here's the thing about Rice, I love Rice, but..
    I hold on every play, hoping Rice is not hurt, I'm sure most of you have that same sentiment.. is he hurt? Rice is injury prone, he has missed a lot of games.

    Rice is a tough as nails player as I have ever seen in a wr, but, thats not enough, For what ever reason, him and Tate take a long time, a long long time getting open, in fact too long. Do you realize that Wilson has the longest time in the pocket before he releases the ball?

    As far a Wallace being soft, not a blocker.. well ok, we all have trade off's, perhaps his deeper down field presence means more open field area for the runner to run.. besides, the other thing I am always harping about is why those guys downfield don't do a better job blocking.. who are they, yeah the WR's.


    See the other thing about Wallace, that some don't realize is the other things he brings to the table that Rice, or Tate will never bring. 1 He doesnt even have to catch the ball to be effective. Him downfield deep,, demands that he is double blanketed, which means a big field for everyone else to roam around in. All of a sudden you take any catchup ability by the opposing team away.

    Yes you can talk about schemes all you want, but stats are stats.. didn't Sherman say something like, Men lie, Women lie, Stats don't lie.? Wallace's stats kick ass.
    User avatar
    Bobblehead
    NET Rookie
     
    Posts: 286
    Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:52 am


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:59 pm
  • Get a rookie in the draft then. Cheaper, easier to integrate into the offense, and not a knucklehead from another organization that may come in and do nothing like Deion Branch did. I'd rather our players were homegrown. There are some very good receivers in this year's draft, and none of them is going to demand 12 million plus per year.
    Image
    R.I.P. Dad. I miss you. You will never be forgotten
    1/12/39 - 8/7/08
    User avatar
    SharkHawk
    * NET Alumni *
     
    Posts: 3883
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:47 am


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:59 pm
  • hawkfan68 wrote:
    Bobblehead wrote:To begin with, I love Rice


    Tate and Rice are not the same type of receivers. Going downfield is about the only thing they have in common but that doesn't make them same type of receivers. Tate doesn't make Rice expendable.


    They are in the fact that they don't on a regular basis provide much seperation.
    They don't stretch the field.
    Teams wouldn't hesitate to single cover them.
    They both take to long to get open.

    But your right, I don't think I meant to say they were the same, more that I was saying why I chose Rice as the trade guy.

    Rice is definitely a much better route runner.
    That said, though, I think Tate would fare better in Rice's position, not fare better than Rice per se, but it would be his more natural position.
    User avatar
    Bobblehead
    NET Rookie
     
    Posts: 286
    Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:52 am


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:01 pm
  • Bobblehead wrote:The thing is, I"m not advocating this is what we do, in fact, I"m quite happy with our receivers, in fact our receivers I"m not even concerned about, but it seems there are a lot that feel we need to upgrade it. The only way I see we do is by procuring the correct receiver, if not by draft then by FA. If we do go by FA, the chances are it will be expensive and the only viable solution I see would be to trade or void the contract of the most expensive receiver we have because I don't want us paying up to's what 30 million for a wr group.

    Here's the thing about Rice, I love Rice, but..
    I hold on every play, hoping Rice is not hurt, I'm sure most of you have that same sentiment.. is he hurt? Rice is injury prone, he has missed a lot of games.

    Rice is a tough as nails player as I have ever seen in a wr, but, thats not enough, For what ever reason, him and Tate take a long time, a long long time getting open, in fact too long. Do you realize that Wilson has the longest time in the pocket before he releases the ball?

    As far a Wallace being soft, not a blocker.. well ok, we all have trade off's, perhaps his deeper down field presence means more open field area for the runner to run.. besides, the other thing I am always harping about is why those guys downfield don't do a better job blocking.. who are they, yeah the WR's.


    See the other thing about Wallace, that some don't realize is the other things he brings to the table that Rice, or Tate will never bring. 1 He doesnt even have to catch the ball to be effective. Him downfield deep,, demands that he is double blanketed, which means a big field for everyone else to roam around in. All of a sudden you take any catchup ability by the opposing team away.

    Yes you can talk about schemes all you want, but stats are stats.. didn't Sherman say something like, Men lie, Women lie, Stats don't lie.? Wallace's stats kick ass.


    While it may be true that stats don't lie, they don't tell the whole story. The Steelers run a completely different offense than what the Seahawks do. I don't believe paying $10-15 million a year for a speedy decoy is worth it. That's what Mike Wallace is or would be in this offense. He would stretch the field and allow guys like Rice, Tate, Baldwin to get the receps. While he would be great to have, only in tandem with Rice. I don't see him as a good fit without Rice on the team.
    User avatar
    hawkfan68
    *GOLD SUPPORTER*
    *GOLD SUPPORTER*
     
    Posts: 3790
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:10 am
    Location: Sammamish, WA


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:11 pm
  • Decoy?
    Really?
    I don't think so.. In fact I think Russell Wilson would .. be out there tomorrow, getting his timing with him.. Russell would be a happy camper, I have no doubt.

    10 to 15 million, yeah, thats why rice would have to be gone, don't want to pay for both.
    User avatar
    Bobblehead
    NET Rookie
     
    Posts: 286
    Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:52 am


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:22 pm


  • This is a guy I'd be willing to take a flyer on.. Nick Toon,
    He's on NO Saints right now and on the IR, but might not take much to get him

    He's big, Doesn't have the greatest speed, but Wilson probably likes him.
    what do you think?
    User avatar
    Bobblehead
    NET Rookie
     
    Posts: 286
    Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:52 am


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:40 pm
  • Bobblehead wrote:Decoy?
    Really?
    I don't think so.. In fact I think Russell Wilson would .. be out there tomorrow, getting his timing with him.. Russell would be a happy camper, I have no doubt.

    10 to 15 million, yeah, thats why rice would have to be gone, don't want to pay for both.


    Russell would be there tomorrow, unfortunately he'd be throwing to a pretend Wallace, because there is no way in hell that fool would show up before the day he is required to in order to get paychecks. He's shown to be a pretty selfish guy. I'm not going to get into the big long discussion about his work ethic, because yes, he is talented and fast. But... he also is a griper. I don't imagine ending up in Seattle with more money would all of a sudden turn him into a super duper teammate. We've been down this road with Branch and Galloway. Both guys got their big payday and were still just as big of a dink afterward. In fact.... Branch got exponentially worse.
    Image
    R.I.P. Dad. I miss you. You will never be forgotten
    1/12/39 - 8/7/08
    User avatar
    SharkHawk
    * NET Alumni *
     
    Posts: 3883
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:47 am


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:48 pm
  • Axx wrote:Rice has been open down field all year long for easy TD's, Wilson simply does not see him.

    Nice generalization. Who would you replace Wilson with, Mr. Nitpicky?
    "I cannot believe this............ I am stunned right now. This is now a rebuilding year for us. Our offense is crap now"

    Blitzer88 regarding trading Percy to the Jets
    User avatar
    HawKnPeppa
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 2700
    Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2009 8:01 pm


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:58 pm
  • SharkHawk wrote:
    Bobblehead wrote:Decoy?
    Really?
    I don't think so.. In fact I think Russell Wilson would .. be out there tomorrow, getting his timing with him.. Russell would be a happy camper, I have no doubt.

    10 to 15 million, yeah, thats why rice would have to be gone, don't want to pay for both.


    Russell would be there tomorrow, unfortunately he'd be throwing to a pretend Wallace, because there is no way in hell that fool would show up before the day he is required to in order to get paychecks. He's shown to be a pretty selfish guy. I'm not going to get into the big long discussion about his work ethic, because yes, he is talented and fast. But... he also is a griper. I don't imagine ending up in Seattle with more money would all of a sudden turn him into a super duper teammate. We've been down this road with Branch and Galloway. Both guys got their big payday and were still just as big of a dink afterward. In fact.... Branch got exponentially worse.


    That maybe so,
    I was just responding to somebody that Wilson probably would relish having a wr as Wallace, or Fitz.

    Things change, motivation changes, who knows, I don't know for sure, but you never know, Wallace may in fact get excited to play with Wilson instead of that guy in Pitts. Hate to label anybody.
    User avatar
    Bobblehead
    NET Rookie
     
    Posts: 286
    Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:52 am


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:16 pm
  • Bobblehead wrote:
    SharkHawk wrote:
    Bobblehead wrote:Decoy?
    Really?
    I don't think so.. In fact I think Russell Wilson would .. be out there tomorrow, getting his timing with him.. Russell would be a happy camper, I have no doubt.

    10 to 15 million, yeah, thats why rice would have to be gone, don't want to pay for both.


    Russell would be there tomorrow, unfortunately he'd be throwing to a pretend Wallace, because there is no way in hell that fool would show up before the day he is required to in order to get paychecks. He's shown to be a pretty selfish guy. I'm not going to get into the big long discussion about his work ethic, because yes, he is talented and fast. But... he also is a griper. I don't imagine ending up in Seattle with more money would all of a sudden turn him into a super duper teammate. We've been down this road with Branch and Galloway. Both guys got their big payday and were still just as big of a dink afterward. In fact.... Branch got exponentially worse.


    That maybe so,
    I was just responding to somebody that Wilson probably would relish having a wr as Wallace, or Fitz.

    Things change, motivation changes, who knows, I don't know for sure, but you never know, Wallace may in fact get excited to play with Wilson instead of that guy in Pitts. Hate to label anybody.


    Since you're so keen on stats. I checked stats for Sidney Rice and Mike Wallace. They are quite similar except for the amount of receptions. The one thing that stood out to me though is avg yards per recep. Sidney averaged 15.0 whereas the blazing Mike Wallace averaged 13.9. One of the things that Rice does, that Wallace doesn't is that he's not afraid to make a catch in the middle of the field. Usually Antonio Brown, Heath Miller, and Sanders do that for the Steelers. Also Rice comes back to help his QB most of the times, does Wallace do that? I like Wallace but not at the expense of Rice.

    http://www.nfl.com/player/sidneyrice/2495718/profile - Sidney Rice stats
    http://www.steelers.com/team/roster/Mike-Wallace/304eecdf-1b60-4dc4-9cd8-7808d9f5c97a - Mike Wallace stats
    User avatar
    hawkfan68
    *GOLD SUPPORTER*
    *GOLD SUPPORTER*
     
    Posts: 3790
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:10 am
    Location: Sammamish, WA


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:38 pm
  • Year Team G GS Rec Yds Avg Lg TD 20+ 40+ 1st
    2009 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 4 39 756 19.4 60 6 14 6 28
    2010 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 16 60 1257 21.0 56 10 26 10 48
    2011 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 14 72 1193 16.6 95 8 18 7 54
    2012 Pittsburgh Steelers 15 14 64 836 13.1 82 8 9 4 33
    TOTAL
    63 48 235 4042 17.2 95 32 67 27 163

    Year Team G GS Rec Yds Avg Lg TD 20+ 40+ 1st
    2007 Minnesota Vikings 13 4 31 396 12.8 60 4 3 2 25
    2008 Minnesota Vikings 13 3 15 141 9.4 23 4 1 0 12
    2009 Minnesota Vikings 16 14 83 1312 15.8 63 8 19 7 59
    2010 Minnesota Vikings 6 5 17 280 16.5 46 2 5 1 14
    2011 Seattle Seahawks 9 9 32 484 15.1 52 2 7 2 19
    2012 Seattle Seahawks 16 16 50 748 15.0 46 7 11 2 37
    TOTAL
    73 51 228 336114.7 63 27 46 14 166

    things that stand out
    Not sure where you got 13.9.. more 17.2
    The other things that stand out is how many games Rice has missed.
    How many longer passes.

    One of the things we noticed while watching the games is how often they DON'T come back for the ball.. Wilson stands in the pocket, running around. they don't come back.. why?

    Sorry about the disheveled stats.. they look fine in the editor.
    User avatar
    Bobblehead
    NET Rookie
     
    Posts: 286
    Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:52 am


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:07 pm
  • Wallace is not a fit for Seattle. He needs a pass first offense. Seems to me this is all an exercise in creating a problem in Seattle where there is none.
    The writing has been on the wall since head coach Mike Tomlin demoted Wallace to "co-starter" with Emmanuel Sanders in November. The speedster went on to complain about his role in coordinator Todd Haley's spread-the-wealth offense while struggling with concentration and effort.



    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100000 ... ooks-bleak
    User avatar
    Jville
    * NET Alumni *
     
    Posts: 3626
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:49 pm


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:09 pm
  • Bobblehead wrote:Year Team G GS Rec Yds Avg Lg TD 20+ 40+ 1st
    2009 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 4 39 756 19.4 60 6 14 6 28
    2010 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 16 60 1257 21.0 56 10 26 10 48
    2011 Pittsburgh Steelers 16 14 72 1193 16.6 95 8 18 7 54
    2012 Pittsburgh Steelers 15 14 64 836 13.1 82 8 9 4 33
    TOTAL
    63 48 235 4042 17.2 95 32 67 27 163

    Year Team G GS Rec Yds Avg Lg TD 20+ 40+ 1st
    2007 Minnesota Vikings 13 4 31 396 12.8 60 4 3 2 25
    2008 Minnesota Vikings 13 3 15 141 9.4 23 4 1 0 12
    2009 Minnesota Vikings 16 14 83 1312 15.8 63 8 19 7 59
    2010 Minnesota Vikings 6 5 17 280 16.5 46 2 5 1 14
    2011 Seattle Seahawks 9 9 32 484 15.1 52 2 7 2 19
    2012 Seattle Seahawks 16 16 50 748 15.0 46 7 11 2 37
    TOTAL
    73 51 228 336114.7 63 27 46 14 166

    things that stand out
    Not sure where you got 13.9.. more 17.2
    The other things that stand out is how many games Rice has missed.
    How many longer passes.

    One of the things we noticed while watching the games is how often they DON'T come back for the ball.. Wilson stands in the pocket, running around. they don't come back.. why?

    Sorry about the disheveled stats.. they look fine in the editor.


    I was talking about their stats for last year 2012, not their career. Looking at it , I typo'd Mike's avg. It was 13.1 and not 13.9. Still my point remains, I wouldn't acquire Wallace at the expense of Rice.
    User avatar
    hawkfan68
    *GOLD SUPPORTER*
    *GOLD SUPPORTER*
     
    Posts: 3790
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:10 am
    Location: Sammamish, WA


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 9:48 pm
  • So we throw low percentage deep passes to a guy that wants the ball all the time or complains doesn't block so our running game suffers and wants more money.

    Sounds like a nice fit for Dallas or Philly if you ask me.
    Image

    To Be P/C or Not P/C That is the Question..........Seahawks kick Ass !!!!
    Check your PM's, Thank you for everything Radish RIP My Friend. :les:
    Member of the 38 club.
    User avatar
    chris98251
    .NET Hijacker
     
    Posts: 11202
    Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 10:52 pm
    Location: Renton Wa.


Re: Trade Rice?
Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:06 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:So we throw low percentage deep passes to a guy that wants the ball all the time or complains doesn't block so our running game suffers and wants more money.

    Sounds like a nice fit for Dallas or Philly if you ask me.


    Well said Chris. That's what I was getting at, but took too many words and still didn't get 1/10 across what you did in this brief and clear statement. You've nailed it.

    I think the "team" mentality is far and above everything else. The front office was drooling over Wilson because he was the complete team player. All about the team at all times. They seek out that type of player. I just don't see Wallace fitting that mold. He was "the man" this year, and Pittsburgh stunk. I have no doubt he'd get numbers in Seattle, but at what cost? I think you've shown us the potential cost, and I'd rather not have an "all-star team" like Philly supposedly had the last 2 years. Our team is built to be a team, not just a roster full of names and "stars"

    I think they have a similar attitude to a soccer team I follow closely - Real Salt Lake. They make a big deal out of this and have it in the locker room for all to see: "The Team is the Star". Sort of the same idea as "I'm in". I don't see Wallace as being an "in" kind of guy. Rice is totally in. Even with his injury history, I always see him tailing back on blocks and it does my heart well to see it. In fact I see it out of all 3 of our main wideouts.
    Image
    R.I.P. Dad. I miss you. You will never be forgotten
    1/12/39 - 8/7/08
    User avatar
    SharkHawk
    * NET Alumni *
     
    Posts: 3883
    Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:47 am


Re: Trade Rice?
Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:37 am
  • Jville wrote:Wallace is not a fit for Seattle. He needs a pass first offense. Seems to me this is all an exercise in creating a problem in Seattle where there is none.
    The writing has been on the wall since head coach Mike Tomlin demoted Wallace to "co-starter" with Emmanuel Sanders in November. The speedster went on to complain about his role in coordinator Todd Haley's spread-the-wealth offense while struggling with concentration and effort.



    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100000 ... ooks-bleak


    Love this post.

    I have less than zero interest in replacing Rice with Wallace. You can talk about Rice's injury history, but he just put in a 16-game season for us. Who's to say that he won't stay healthy for the remainder of his contract, especially after he focused on putting on muscle this past offseason so he would be more durable (and it worked)?

    There's no value in bringing in a guy who is going to slack if he doesn't get the ball regularly, or if his stats aren't where he thinks they should be. You don't put a diva receiver with a history of temper tantrums in a run-first offense and expect him to remain happy.
    Image

    Super Bowl XLVIII Champions
    User avatar
    volsunghawk
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 8173
    Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:20 am
    Location: Right outside Richard Sherman's house


Re: Trade Rice?
Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:44 am
  • There are so many football players who can run fast and catch and are not named Mike Wallace.
    Image
    User avatar
    HawkAroundTheClock
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 1558
    Joined: Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:30 pm
    Location: Olympia


Re: Trade Rice?
Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:10 am
  • Bobblehead wrote:

    This is a guy I'd be willing to take a flyer on.. Nick Toon,
    He's on NO Saints right now and on the IR, but might not take much to get him

    He's big, Doesn't have the greatest speed, but Wilson probably likes him.
    what do you think?


    I doubt Saints trade him after putting him on IR (turf-toe) after only a few weeks. They were really high on him.
    But if you're into Bucky reunions for Wilson in Seattle then I'd hold off until Jared Abbrederis is available in the 2014 draft.
    IMO Abbrederis is faster, more clutch and just as tough as Toon. I like his' lunch-bucket' attitude as a former walk-on who is now all-Big Ten and can make big plays as a wide-out or punt returner. He's listed 6'2 180 probably goes in the 3rd round in 2014. Poor man's Jordy Nelson IMO.
    Russ Willstrong
    NET Veteran
     
    Posts: 767
    Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:31 am


Re: Trade Rice?
Mon Feb 11, 2013 4:50 pm
  • volsunghawk wrote:You can talk about Rice's injury history, but he just put in a 16-game season for us. Who's to say that he won't stay healthy for the remainder of his contract, especially after he focused on putting on muscle this past offseason so he would be more durable (and it worked)?


    Rice also had surgery to correct the chronic problem he's had with his shoulders for several years.

    I really don't see the proposed move having any upside whatsoever.

    :229031_shrug:
    Talent can get you to the playoffs.
    It takes character to win when you get there.

    SUPER BOWL XLVIII CHAMPIONS
    User avatar
    sutz
    USMC 1970-77
     
    Posts: 10226
    Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:41 am
    Location: Monroe, WA


Next


It is currently Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:22 am

Please REGISTER to become a member

Return to [ THE OFFICIAL NET NATION FAN FORUM ]




Information