Irvin to OLBer

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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:16 am
  • oasis wrote:My concern is that while Irvin is getting OLB reps in training camp, I assume Malcolm Smith is running with the second team.

    So then what happens in games 1-4, when Smith is lacking reps with the 1st-team defense?


    Smith started three games last season when Hill was injured and played pretty damn well. I don't see how this situation would be any different. This is also being described as a competition between the two, so I'm sure both will get reps with the 1st-team during training camp and pre-season.
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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:18 am
  • hawker84 wrote:I love it, i don't see him as a legit DE, too small... in order to succeed there, he'd really need to develope solid moves other than the bull and speed rush.. I love the move... How is his coverage skills though?


    This makes NO sense. So you saying Chris Clemmons is "too small"? The 2, as of last year, were seperated by a mere 5 pounds. Totally ridiculous.

    Even now this is what is listed on the official site:

    91 Clemons, Chris DE 6-3, 254, 31, 10 Georgia
    51 Irvin, Bruce DE 6-3, 248, 25, 2 West Virginia
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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:22 am
  • Do you think carrol made a mistake? even trying him at D-Line, considering his smaller size. Seems like a wasted season.
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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:25 am
  • T-Sizzle wrote:
    DavidSeven wrote:I don't think the move has as much to do with Bruce's strengths and weaknesses as it does our increased depth on defense. Last year, we were thin at DE. This year, we've loaded up with the additions of Avril and Bennett. Bruce has too much unique talent to keep him off the field, so Pete's going to find a way to get these guys looks. Theoretically, with Bruce at OLB, we could have a package that features Clemons, Avril, Bennett and Bruce on the field at the same time. Can you imagine being an opposing QB or O-lineman in that situation? Also, OP's quote points out that he'll still get looks at the DE position in obvious passing situations, so he still retains his role from his rookie season. Looks like we're training him to be an even more versatile weapon on D.

    :13:


    I see it as putting him in a "Von Miller" Type role. Where he can play upright on early down and also put his hand in the dirt on passing situations. I don't really see this as news, It was assumed for 2 months now.
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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:28 am
  • NFL_Football2013 wrote:Do you think carrol made a mistake? even trying him at D-Line, considering his smaller size. Seems like a wasted season.


    How is 9.5 (including playoffs) sacks a wasted season, with a year refining his pass-rushing skills?
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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:31 am
  • The people saying "see, told ya he cant play DE" are making me laugh. This regime is ALWAYS thinking a season or two ahead. Carpenter played RT his first year, even though the Seahawks specifically worked him out and always planned for him to play guard. He was only at RT in year one to get him on the field. Get the best talent on the field, regardless of position. You were probably the same people saying "Pete doesn't understand QB's or passing attacks" in season one and two.

    Maybe some of you are just too acustom to Holmgren who did the opposite; fill positions regardless of the talent. (Seneca, Leonard Weaver, etc).

    IMO, Irvin has always been thought of as a Clay Mathews, Von Miller type weapon defensively. They simply didn't have the depth to do that last year.

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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:51 am
  • Physically, I think Irvin can play both positions. His football acumen IMO, is what I would question while playing OLB. It would help if they are only going to blitz him from the OLB spot, but opposing QB's aren't stupid, nor are their coordinators. I'm sure if this were the case, only blitzing Irvin from the OLB spot, opposing teams would quickly learn to call an audible to attack Irvin either in coverage or with misdirection plays to challenge mental awareness. With that said, Irvin could very well be good in coverage, I just don't know.

    Anyone ever seen him in coverage? Because I can't remember ever seeing him (As a Hawk) cover anyone. College?

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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:55 am
  • jlwaters1 wrote:I see it as putting him in a "Von Miller" Type role. Where he can play upright on early down and also put his hand in the dirt on passing situations. I don't really see this as news, It was assumed for 2 months now.


    I'll check with you before posting anything next time.
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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:58 am
  • T-Sizzle wrote:
    jlwaters1 wrote:I see it as putting him in a "Von Miller" Type role. Where he can play upright on early down and also put his hand in the dirt on passing situations. I don't really see this as news, It was assumed for 2 months now.


    I'll check with you before posting anything next time.


    Wait, you haven't been already? It's clearly listed within the Seahawks.net doctrine.
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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:02 am
  • jlwaters1 wrote:
    NFL_Football2013 wrote:Do you think carrol made a mistake? even trying him at D-Line, considering his smaller size. Seems like a wasted season.


    How is 9.5 (including playoffs) sacks a wasted season, with a year refining his pass-rushing skills?


    its a wasted season, he wasnt learning to be a stand up player, how to play linebacker, how to blitz as a linebacker, how to cover zone/man. Being on the Dline was teaching him to play a different style of pass rushing and not learning how to cover.
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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:09 am
  • NFL_Football2013 wrote:
    jlwaters1 wrote:
    NFL_Football2013 wrote:Do you think carrol made a mistake? even trying him at D-Line, considering his smaller size. Seems like a wasted season.


    How is 9.5 (including playoffs) sacks a wasted season, with a year refining his pass-rushing skills?


    its a wasted season, he wasnt learning to be a stand up player, how to play linebacker, how to blitz as a linebacker, how to cover zone/man. Being on the Dline was teaching him to play a different style of pass rushing and not learning how to cover.


    He won't be asked to cover much. In addition to that the guy was originally a safety. Im sure he has some understanding of it.
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Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:23 am
  • I think it is a great idea. Remember Irvin in community college played safety(!). He has excellent speed and seems to have good awareness. Putting him with a quick DE (Bennett , Clem, Cliff A. Etc ) overloading one side will cause fits.

    There have been quit a few few DE/LB over the year. The Raiders had one years ago that caused us fits Tony Cline I think was his name. lawrence taylor was a DL man in College and only played his last college years as a LB. he could be a better Von Miller...it will be fun to find out at least !
    Last edited by Happypuppy on Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:28 am
  • He won't be asked to cover much. In addition to that the guy was originally a safety. Im sure he has some understanding of it.[/quote]




    so now that other teams know that he wont be covering much, wont they just adjust protection because they know he is coming, in a 3-4 look it gives you an advantage of surprise of who the 4th rusher will be.

    Covering as an OLB is different than covering as a Safety. The time he doenst rush and has to cover Jimmy graham, vernon davis etc...... then what, i dont think his community college coverage skills will suffice.
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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:35 am
  • NFL_Football2013 wrote:He won't be asked to cover much. In addition to that the guy was originally a safety. Im sure he has some understanding of it.


    so now that other teams know that he wont be covering much, wont they just adjust protection because they know he is coming, in a 3-4 look it gives you an advantage of surprise of who the 4th rusher will be.[/quote]

    I think your overthinking things. Most 3-4 OLB's rush the majority of the time. So it's not that big of a deal. I recall a interview with PC during OTA's talking about Irvin and dropping coverage and he made it sound as if Irvin was picking up that part of the game quickly.

    I'm certainly excited to see how it all shakes out this preseason. The LBer's and DL should really be interesting to watch this preseason-- How will Toomer, Bradford, Morgan fit into things? What roles will the rookie DT's claim by the end of training camp?
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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:36 am
  • Happypuppy wrote:I think it is a great idea. Remember Irvin in community college played safety(!). He has excellent speed and seems to have good awareness. Putting him with a quick DE (Bennett , Clem, Cliff A. Etc ) overloading one side will cause fits.

    There have been quit a few few DE/LB over the year. The Raisers had one years ago that caused us fits Tony Cline I think was his name. lawrence taylor was a DL man in College and only played his last college years as a LB. he could be a better Von Miller...it will be fun to find out at least !



    if he could be a better von miller, why not start him out as an LB to begin with?
    and really tony cline......thats the best example we can hope for?
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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:38 am
  • jlwaters1 wrote:
    hawker84 wrote:I love it, i don't see him as a legit DE, too small... in order to succeed there, he'd really need to develope solid moves other than the bull and speed rush.. I love the move... How is his coverage skills though?


    This makes NO sense. So you saying Chris Clemmons is "too small"? The 2, as of last year, were seperated by a mere 5 pounds. Totally ridiculous.

    Even now this is what is listed on the official site:

    91 Clemons, Chris DE 6-3, 254, 31, 10 Georgia
    51 Irvin, Bruce DE 6-3, 248, 25, 2 West Virginia


    you obviously didn't bother to read the rest of my post.. i'll paraphrase.. In order for him to further succeed at DE at his size , he'd need to adapt more moves than just the speed and bull rush, Clemons has a variety of moves he uses, thus enjoyed more success at the position at his current weight..
    Last edited by hawker84 on Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:50 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:39 am
  • jlwaters1 wrote:
    NFL_Football2013 wrote:He won't be asked to cover much. In addition to that the guy was originally a safety. Im sure he has some understanding of it.


    so now that other teams know that he wont be covering much, wont they just adjust protection because they know he is coming, in a 3-4 look it gives you an advantage of surprise of who the 4th rusher will be.


    I think your overthinking things. Most 3-4 OLB's rush the majority of the time. So it's not that big of a deal. I recall a interview with PC during OTA's talking about Irvin and dropping coverage and he made it sound as if Irvin was picking up that part of the game quickly.

    I'm certainly excited to see how it all shakes out this preseason. The LBer's and DL should really be interesting to watch this preseason-- How will Toomer, Bradford, Morgan fit into things? What roles will the rookie DT's claim by the end of training camp?[/quote]


    you have to be able to set the edge as an OLB against the run as well, 3-4 olbs cant just pin their ears back and rush, you would get exposed. and you have to mix up who rushes and who doesnt.
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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:40 am
  • NFL_Football2013 wrote:


    so now that other teams know that he wont be covering much, wont they just adjust protection because they know he is coming, in a 3-4 look it gives you an advantage of surprise of who the 4th rusher will be.

    Covering as an OLB is different than covering as a Safety. The time he doenst rush and has to cover Jimmy graham, vernon davis etc...... then what, i dont think his community college coverage skills will suffice.


    If the opposing team has to keep one extra man in to block, that's one less person who's going across the middle.

    And while I don't think Seattle is going to ask to him to cover Graham or Davis (or even Jared Cook), I bet he has the speed to keep up with those guys at the very least.
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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:43 am
  • I say, "why not"? The signings of Avril and Bennett gives us the flexibility to do some creative things.

    My biggest concern with Irvin at the Sam is teams running the ball right at him.
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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:48 am
  • FlyingGreg wrote:I say, "why not"? The signings of Avril and Bennett gives us the flexibility to do some creative things.

    My biggest concern with Irvin at the Sam is teams running the ball right at him.


    ...this
    they ran at him as a DE, if they run at him as an OLB, he wont be able to set the edge and bye bye
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Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 9:59 am
  • NFL_Football2013 wrote:
    if he could be a better von miller, why not start him out as an LB to begin with?
    and really tony cline......thats the best example we can hope for?


    Look at DeMarcus Ware and his stats out of college. He is a few pound heavier and a bit shorter and slower. In college he played DE/OLB and during the draft he was listed much like Bruce a tweener. Ware is much stronger ( he is a beast) and moved to the DL I see Bruce as a guy who is better suited perhaps at the OLB.

    Last year was not wasted. Learning to play on the line is very valuable and he needed it. Bruce is a guy that plays best in space. I'm jacked about the move even if he is just a part time OLB.
    Bruce is now closer to 257-260 BTW not the 240s in college.
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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:01 am
  • NFL_Football2013 wrote:
    FlyingGreg wrote:I say, "why not"? The signings of Avril and Bennett gives us the flexibility to do some creative things.

    My biggest concern with Irvin at the Sam is teams running the ball right at him.


    ...this
    they ran at him as a DE, if they run at him as an OLB, he wont be able to set the edge and bye bye



    He'd have Red Bryant (most likely) in front of him setting the edge, so I'm not sure it's that big of a deal. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:12 am
  • It will be very interesting to see how he develops as an OLBer. I really hope he exceeds at it as it will allow him to become more versatile thus allowing him to see the field more often.
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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:17 am
  • jlwaters1 wrote:
    NFL_Football2013 wrote:
    FlyingGreg wrote:I say, "why not"? The signings of Avril and Bennett gives us the flexibility to do some creative things.

    My biggest concern with Irvin at the Sam is teams running the ball right at him.


    ...this
    they ran at him as a DE, if they run at him as an OLB, he wont be able to set the edge and bye bye


    He'd have Red Bryant (most likely) in front of him setting the edge, so I'm not sure it's that big of a deal. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.


    The alignment of linebackers depends on the offensive formation - so if the strong side of the offense is away from Big Red, so will be the Sam.

    But I imagine what they envision for Bruce is filling the Sam role in obvious passing downs. It is fun to imagine a pass rush package when we have Clemons, Avril, Bennett (at DT) and Irvin (SAM) on the field at the same time.

    I would expect Malcolm Smith -- who is a more traditional LB -- to see the majority of snaps at Sam as he is better against the run.
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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:33 am
  • DavidSeven wrote:I don't think the move has as much to do with Bruce's strengths and weaknesses as it does our increased depth on defense. Last year, we were thin at DE. This year, we've loaded up with the additions of Avril and Bennett. Bruce has too much unique talent to keep him off the field, so Pete's going to find a way to get these guys looks. Theoretically, with Bruce at OLB, we could have a package that features Clemons, Avril, Bennett and Bruce on the field at the same time. Can you imagine being an opposing QB or O-lineman in that situation? Also, OP's quote points out that he'll still get looks at the DE position in obvious passing situations, so he still retains his role from his rookie season. Looks like we're training him to be an even more versatile weapon on D.



    This was my thought on this as well. With Clemons out and Irvin facing suspension, we'll still be looking pretty good for pass rush. When Clemons comes back and Irvin is off of suspension, it would be a struggle to get all of these guys on the DLine at the same time. I don't see Irvin getting much needed experience competing with Avril and Bennett, who are not only more refined pass rushers and run stoppers, but they have more experience.

    As for the size thing, I don't buy it. Irvin wasn't that much smaller than Clemons, and he actually has a larger frame. Look at the pictures from the OTA's; Irvin looks about 25-30% bigger than Clem when both are standing together, so he's gained significant weight this offseason.

    As for coverage, the word was that Irvin played Safety in High school. If he was half way decent, that should give him the coverage skills he needs to survive at LB.
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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:06 am
  • dontbelikethat wrote:My main concern are his coverage skills.


    Didn't Irvin play Saftey while he was at Junior College?

    I love this move personally.
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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:29 am
  • Is he going to have like an Aldon Smith rookie year type of role? non starter but situational pass rusher
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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:34 am
  • Anyone suggesting this move has nothing to do with Irvin's abilities is kidding themselves. There's a reason we went out and signed several $$ DEs. We're putting him in a position to succeed with his speed. I doubt he'll be starting during TC, Carroll understands he's out for the first 4 games anyways and he has yet to prove anything at OLB.
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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:36 am
  • Makes sense because we used Clay Matthews and Brian Cushing--both linebackers--in the Leo role at USC. It's basically a hybrid role anyway.
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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:04 pm
  • Where did the quote come from in the original post? Did Pete ever come out and say Irvin will compete for the starting job at LB? As others have said, the comment about him not being big enough is strange and not something I can imagine Pete saying.

    I don't think we will know exactly what's going on with the Irvin/LB thing until training camp and more likely until the season starts and Irvin returns in game 5.

    I have a hard time believing that Irvin is going to become a starting outside LB. Obvious passing downs? No doubt that we will see Irvin at LB occasionally. Every other snap of the game? I doubt he is a better LB than Smith and Wright.

    I understand that if Irvin plays Sam he will always have Red in front of him (the Leo end plays weak side), so that will help with run defense. I also see the advantage of having pass rush come from the other side in our base defense (base defense all the pressure has been coming from the weak side).

    It'll be interesting to see how this plays out and what exactly Pete has planned.
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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:26 pm
  • The part that caught my attention was the bit about Irvin competing with Smith, not Avril. Smith is a pure WILL LB. If Irvin wins that competition, that means we might see Avril and Irvin on the field as LBs at the same time at some point this season. That would be interesting.

    I wonder how well he can cover. He did play safety in high school and briefly at the collegiate level, and he's got the speed (4.50).

    Props to Hawkblogger for calling an outright move to LB for Irvin way, way back (I think in January). He sounded sourced at the time, and given his connections to the team and coaches I thought there was a pretty good chance he wasn't full of crap. Turns out he was on the money.
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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:28 pm
  • What's the percentage that you guys run a 'base personal'?

    The Niners technically run a 3-4 but we run a 2-4-5 the most (in terms of percent of plays).

    I think this whole story is semantics... They'll use Irvin as a rush linebacker, whether there's a 3 or 4 man front. He does have the speed to play in coverage, but it remains to be seen if he has the mental fortitude to diagnose and be an effective OLB in a 4-3.

    Like several posters have said, I bet he's a 'pass rush specialist' a la Aldon Smith in his rookie year.
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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:29 pm
  • kearly wrote:The part that caught my attention was the bit about Irvin competing with Smith, not Avril. Smith is a pure WILL LB. If Irvin wins that competition, that means we might see Avril and Irvin on the field as LBs at the same time at some point this season. That would be interesting.

    I wonder how well he can cover. He did play safety in high school and briefly at the collegiate level, and he's got the speed (4.50).


    And it's interesting that they moved KJ Wright to Will and Malcom Smith to Sam.

    The possibilities and flexibility with this defense (once all hands are on deck) is amazing.
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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:38 pm
  • SNDavidson wrote:A means of having almost all of our pass rushers on the field at the same time.


    Clemons and Avril on the edges, Bennett and Hill in the m7ddle, Irvin at OLB, winne on the ege . ? ?
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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:43 pm
  • T-Sizzle wrote:
    DavidSeven wrote:I don't think the move has as much to do with Bruce's strengths and weaknesses as it does our increased depth on defense. Last year, we were thin at DE. This year, we've loaded up with the additions of Avril and Bennett. Bruce has too much unique talent to keep him off the field, so Pete's going to find a way to get these guys looks. Theoretically, with Bruce at OLB, we could have a package that features Clemons, Avril, Bennett and Bruce on the field at the same time. Can you imagine being an opposing QB or O-lineman in that situation? Also, OP's quote points out that he'll still get looks at the DE position in obvious passing situations, so he still retains his role from his rookie season. Looks like we're training him to be an even more versatile weapon on D.

    :13:


    I think it's pretty clear that Irvin is being moved because of his strengths and weaknesses.

    First, you don't move a 1st round pick to a new position in year two to help fill out the depth chart a little better. If Seattle needed LB help, they had the entire offseason to work that out. It's worth noting too that Seattle did not sign a single LB in free agency, not even for the minimum, and they did not spend a single draft pick on a LB in the draft either, instead opting to wait for UDFA. During the combine, Pete Carroll spoke openly about his comfort and satisfaction with the Seahawks depth chart at LB. Clearly, Pete Carroll feels pretty comfortable about his LB situation.

    Second, we are much thinner at DE than we are at LB.

    Our LB corps is actually pretty loaded top to bottom, and there will be some starter caliber LBs who won't make the cut for us already. Smith is starter caliber and is stuck on the bench. Bradford showed some really good things in his preseason debut last year (and Pete Carroll noticed it). Morgan is a good linebacker that can play all 3 spots. John Lotulelei was one of the most athletic LBs in the 2013 draft, and I'm very high on fellow UDFA Craig Wilkins, who runs in the 4.50s but is a pain to block. There's also Korey Toomer, who has top shelf physical talent and is a decent bet to make the team during Irvin's suspension as he has good pass rush ability.

    At DE, Avril is not really a complete LEO, he's more like Irvin than Clemons- he's a pure edge rusher. He's also got a foot problem. Though Bennett would make an awesome 5-tech, it sounds like he'll see most of his reps inside at 3-tech, similar to Jason Jones. He also has a lingering shoulder problem. Clemons is 32 years old, weighs 265 pounds (listed as less online, but during broadcasts last season he was listed in the 260s), and just tore his ACL in January. That's not a recipe for a quick recovery, most likely. You look at this roster, and they'd be crazy to move Irvin away from DE if he had the same LEO capability as Chris Clemons.

    Third, LB really does suit a player like Irvin much better. When given open space, he's a deadly pass rusher, but it's "game over" when a tackle wins the initial arm battle at the line. In college, Irvin compensated for that weakness with a surprisingly strong bull rush, but as is typically the case, his bull rush didn't translate to the NFL. It typically doesn't translate even for most 300 pound DTs, so I'm not surprised it didn't translate for a 245 pound featherweight DE. Getting Irvin in more open space situations where he can exploit speed is exactly the right way to handle him, IMO.
    Last edited by kearly on Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:49 pm
  • kearly wrote:Our LB corps is actually pretty loaded top to bottom, and there will be some starter caliber LBs who won't make the cut for us already. Smith is starter caliber and is stuck on the bench. Bradford showed some really good things in his preseason debut last year (and Pete Carroll noticed it). Morgan is a good linebacker that can play all 3 spots. John Lotulelei was one of the most athletic LBs in the 2013 draft, and I'm very high on fellow UDFA Craig Wilkins, who runs in the 4.50s but is a pain to block. There's also Korey Toomer, who has top shelf physical talent and is a decent bet to make the team during Irvin's suspension as he has good pass rush ability


    Kip, don't you see Smith as the most likely starter at Sam?
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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 12:59 pm
  • FlyingGreg wrote:Kip, don't you see Smith as the most likely starter at Sam?


    SAM is more of a run stopping position and it typically plays very close to the strong side of the line, so it's almost like a hybrid DE/LB position. For a SAM LBer, it's really important to take blocks well because you have little protection and are asked to take on a lot in the running game.

    It's not that I think Smith "can't" play the position, but at 228 pounds with his injury history I think it would be reckless. And also a waste of his talent, as his coverage and blitzing ability fits the WILL spot very well. Mike Morgan is also sub-230, but he'd actually make a pretty good SAM because he plays much bigger than his weight and he stays healthy. Then you have KJ Wright of course, who is an elite run stopper and is as almost as tough to move as a 5-tech. Bradford would be a killer SAM as well. Toomer could play there. Wilkins could too, if they wanted. Of all the LBs I think of as likely to make the team, Smith seems like the very last player I'd peg for the SAM spot.
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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:17 pm
  • ^So if KJ moved to Will and Irvin is at Sam why is he competing with Malcolm Smith for thst spot instead of Toomer, Morgan or one of the other bigger LBs?

    My opinion is we are going to see a bunch of new and different stuff. I also think we will see more 3-4 looks.
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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:30 pm
  • PC and his coaching staff know 50X more than any of us about football. They clearly know what they are doing. If they think it's a good idea, I don't doubt it at all. If it doesn't work out, they'll move him back.
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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:44 pm

Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:15 pm
  • This is all over the video media today thanks to a blurb in the News Tribune. It's news to everyone but Seahawk fans who have heard about it for months. It must be July. You can only say so much about Aaron Hernandez which will finally disappear from the TV when TCs open around the NFL in a couple weeks.
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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:28 pm
  • The Seahawks aren't exactly inventing the wheel with this move either. The Giants did it with Mathias Kiwanuka, as just one example. Moving a DE to LB is all about scheme fit and getting your best players on the field. My opinion part of this is that I'd definitely rather maximize Irvin's reps than Malcom Smith's, who's been very good in the fill-in role. There is nothing wrong having that DD Lewis, sometimes starter on your team.
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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 5:59 pm
  • hawker84 wrote:I love it, i don't see him as a legit DE, too small... in order to succeed there, he'd really need to develope solid moves other than the bull and speed rush.. I love the move... How is his coverage skills though?


    why is everyone saying he's to small? Him and Chris Clemons are the same height and Clemons weighs 7 lbs more than Irvin.
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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:55 pm
  • I've been trying all day to visualize and come to terms with this and make sense of it. Just doesn't pass the smell test to me. If you think he is progressing at all at DE, I can't see why you would consider making this move. I'm thinking Quinn doesn't believe in him at DE. He was already a project, now he's even more of one, and at a position he has never played before. I know I'm usually not the most optimistic fella around here, but even if I try to wear that hat I can't see him playing much and being productive. Even if you put him in on passing downs, the opposing team knows he is coming. I have all the trust in the world in our staff, but I don't see how you could spin this as anything other than the staff didn't believe he could be a productive DE and though it was time to try something else.
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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:32 pm
  • CALIHAWK1 wrote:I don't buy the part about him not being big enough to play line full time. I think that was obviouly opinion but mixed in so it may be construed as something Carroll may have hinted at.

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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:36 pm
  • I like the idea of having Irvin learn some OLB duties and eventually he can possibly become a 3 down player. However, I don't think Smith will actually be anywhere near a starter on the strong side and Toomer makes his elite athleticism a good part of the mixture and earns a starting role at least for the 1st 4 games, in which case, Irvin will likely have spot duty on 1st and 2nd down initially so Toomer probably starts a lot.
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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:52 pm
  • Something I think we need to keep an eye on is Wright just as good a WILL as he is a SAM?

    Like Kearly mentioned, Wright is pretty damn good at what he does. I don't see the advantage of taking Wright out of a position he excels at, put him in another that he may not be as good at and than replacing Wright at his original position with a question mark project.

    Irvin has some pretty big holes as a player. He has some raw talent but at LB, he would need to vastly improve on his fundamentals of the game. And for those saying it's no big deal, he will just rush the passer, while we use 3-4 looks, we are still a 4-3. Which means if Irvin is rushing from the LB spot, we are essentially sending 5 guys and you can only do that so often.
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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:05 am
  • amill87 wrote:Something I think we need to keep an eye on is Wright just as good a WILL as he is a SAM?

    Like Kearly mentioned, Wright is pretty damn good at what he does. I don't see the advantage of taking Wright out of a position he excels at, put him in another that he may not be as good at and than replacing Wright at his original position with a question mark project.

    Irvin has some pretty big holes as a player. He has some raw talent but at LB, he would need to vastly improve on his fundamentals of the game. And for those saying it's no big deal, he will just rush the passer, while we use 3-4 looks, we are still a 4-3. Which means if Irvin is rushing from the LB spot, we are essentially sending 5 guys and you can only do that so often.


    I do agree about sending 5 too often. Wright is just a LB through and through. Stepped in at MLB in 2011 and no one saw him make a single bad play. Don't worry about Wright. Besides, having him next to his buddy Wagner, whom he communicates with very well in game, is only good for continuity from left to right.

    Again though, I'd like to send 5 a little bit more than Gus did, but sending 5 too often puts your coverages at a disadvantage. A good DC has to know when he's facing a smart, vet QB. One of those will just figure out where the blitz is coming from and throw over top to the vacated area and kill that. It has to be done right. Certainly not too much.

    One of the reasons I really like the prospect of Toomer being an actual SLB more in the mold of a Wright type, but much, much, much better athlete. 1st and 2nd down would be less of a concern and Toomer has put his hand on the ground quite a bit too with all of the other positions he chipped in at.
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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:34 am
  • The thing about sending "5 guys too often" though is that the teams that usually do so are the ones that have little to no secondary quality, so you do it too much and eventually you'll be picked apart.
    When you have 5 pro-bowl DBs though, you can afford to pressure more, your matchup still gives 6 on 3/4/5 receivers, which is a numerical advantage - and in fact by consistently sending 5, your OC is forced to start holding back a TE/FB/RB to block more often, so you can focus on defending against 1 less player.

    Because we very rarely need to double team any WRs we can afford that extra rusher.
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Re: Irvin to OLBer
Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:29 am
  • We heard all this a while back, but this was confirmation from Pete, so it is news.

    I think this is a look we would only see a handful of times per game. Except in those games where an exceptional athlete is behind center, which unfortunately for the suspended Irvin is the first two weeks. Irvin parked at WILL could be a good deterrent for Kaepernick and Newton taking off around the weak side.

    I have been concerned about the WILL spot for a while, I don't see Malcom as fitting the model. Irvin fits the model, but is completely unproven at the spot.

    For those comparing Clemons and Irvin physically, I can't say how big Irvin is post "adderall", but last year he was way smaller than Clemons, I don't care what the official program says. And he plays way smaller. Clemons bullrushes from time to time, Irvin looks like a child when he tries that.

    The good news from yesterday? Clemons thinks he will be good to go for day one.
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