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 Post subject: The good hands team.
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:46 am 
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Thinking about our '05 championship run and comparing our teams--with the exception of the left side of the offensive line I like this team better at almost every position.

What really gets me smiling is to think how much better this team is at catching the ball. There is not a single skill player on this offense who doesn't have soft hands. The dropped passes in '05 (and '04, '06 and '07), and particularly in the Super Bowl, were the Achilles heel of the team. Darryl Jackson and Jerramy Stevens were good at creating separation, but I always wondered when they would drop a critical pass. All of the running backs on this team can catch better than Alexander; Zach Miller has hands of glue, and we have five or six WRs now who can catch better than our top receiving threats in '05.

There was nothing more frustrating for me than watching a rally fall short because of a drop. I remember how our receiving corp had to get special training with whiffle balls to learn how to hold on. Aside from the joy of watching Wilson operate and the thrill of hearing the LOB lay the wood on opponents, this year we will have the comfort of knowing that if Russell throws a catchable ball, it will very likely be caught.


Last edited by godawg on Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The good hands team.
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:56 am 
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Such a valid observation! We can almost take for granted that the ball will be caught. Which is really how it SHOULD BE with professionals.

Koren (smh) and D-Jack (loved him) and Stevens (headcase) were just not reliable as receivers. And Shaun was not a threat in that regard.

Engram and jurevicious would fit in well with the current group, however.

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 Post subject: Re: The good hands team.
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:56 am 
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Heath Miller. Lol, I make that mistake fairly frequently as well.


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 Post subject: Re: The good hands team.
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:57 am 
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Zach Miller...not Heath. :o

And good point.

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 Post subject: Re: The good hands team.
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 9:05 am 
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Heath? Oops, he's a good one too. I concede that Engram and Jurevicious could hold their own with any group of receivers.


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 Post subject: Re: The good hands team.
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:00 am 
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I hated every receiver on those super bowl xl era teams with the exception of Joe jervicious. With the amount of catchable balls those clowns dropped, Hass could have been all-pro 4 times over. I'm loving this group we have now though.
As for the op's comment about the left side of the o line, I'm not about to disagree (Walt and Hutch is a hof left side), but I think Okung is doing a remarkable job as the heir to a legend. He's well on his way to being a truly dominant l.t. IMO. He's shut down some elite competition (peppers, ware, Mario, Allen, etc). Hopefully big Carp hits his stride this year at l.g. and we can have a truly elite left side once again...

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 Post subject: Re: The good hands team.
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 10:47 am 
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lolz @ headphone accessory avatar.

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 Post subject: Re: The good hands team.
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:35 pm 
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CANHawk wrote:
I hated every receiver on those super bowl xl era teams with the exception of Joe jervicious. With the amount of catchable balls those clowns dropped, Hass could have been all-pro 4 times over. I'm loving this group we have now though.
As for the op's comment about the left side of the o line, I'm not about to disagree (Walt and Hutch is a hof left side), but I think Okung is doing a remarkable job as the heir to a legend. He's well on his way to being a truly dominant l.t. IMO. He's shut down some elite competition (peppers, ware, Mario, Allen, etc). Hopefully big Carp hits his stride this year at l.g. and we can have a truly elite left side once again...


I don't know how you or anyone could hate DJack and the sprinkler.

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 Post subject: Re: The good hands team.
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:40 pm 
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GO HANDS.

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 Post subject: Re: The good hands team.
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:50 pm 
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Throwdown wrote:
CANHawk wrote:
I hated every receiver on those super bowl xl era teams with the exception of Joe jervicious. With the amount of catchable balls those clowns dropped, Hass could have been all-pro 4 times over. I'm loving this group we have now though.
As for the op's comment about the left side of the o line, I'm not about to disagree (Walt and Hutch is a hof left side), but I think Okung is doing a remarkable job as the heir to a legend. He's well on his way to being a truly dominant l.t. IMO. He's shut down some elite competition (peppers, ware, Mario, Allen, etc). Hopefully big Carp hits his stride this year at l.g. and we can have a truly elite left side once again...


I don't know how you or anyone could hate DJack and the sprinkler.


I love Koren, Djack & Bobby, even if they did frustrate the crap outta me very frequently. The sprinkler was awesome in every way.

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 Post subject: Re: The good hands team.
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:35 pm 
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I'd take the 05 D-line and LB's also. Mebane is great but Tubbs if only for one year of being healthy was one of the biggest reasons we got to the super bowl.

Jackson drove me crazy because he had all the talent but lacked the concentration. I'm reminded of RW's quote the separation is in the preparation and D-jack just seemed to get along doing the minimum. he had more talent than Engram but wasn't respected nearly as much which is why he was move the San Fran and then Denver and never had success outside of Seattle. Dumb move by Ruskell (one of many) but in reality Jackson made that move possible.

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 Post subject: Re: The good hands team.
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:40 pm 
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Hope they show better hands in San Francisco this year....


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 Post subject: Re: The good hands team.
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:51 pm 
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Throwdown wrote:
CANHawk wrote:
I hated every receiver on those super bowl xl era teams with the exception of Joe jervicious. With the amount of catchable balls those clowns dropped, Hass could have been all-pro 4 times over. I'm loving this group we have now though.
As for the op's comment about the left side of the o line, I'm not about to disagree (Walt and Hutch is a hof left side), but I think Okung is doing a remarkable job as the heir to a legend. He's well on his way to being a truly dominant l.t. IMO. He's shut down some elite competition (peppers, ware, Mario, Allen, etc). Hopefully big Carp hits his stride this year at l.g. and we can have a truly elite left side once again...


I don't know how you or anyone could hate DJack and the sprinkler.


Okay... perhaps "hate" is a strong word, but I don't look back upon those receivers and feel any happy joy-joy feelings. D-jack, engram, Koren Robinson et al were your typical over hyped "fan favorite" types that weren't nearly as good as everyone wanted to think they were. Hass and a great playbook made those guys look better than they were. They weren't #1 receivers on any other team imo.

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 Post subject: Re: The good hands team.
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:15 am 
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I wonder how much of the dropsies was because the receivers were too busy counting steps and getting their exact place on the field juuuust right when they should have been looking for the ball? Having a less mechanical offensive system likely helps. (And credit goes to whoever mentioned this in a different thread, by the way. I wish I remembered the name.)

Also, does anyone remember the skit (on, I think the Bob Rivers show) where they 'interviewed' D-Jack in his home and during the interview, plates and knives and forks continually crashed to the ground?

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 Post subject: Re: The good hands team.
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:58 am 
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My brain might have been fried by now, but Im pretty confident engram had good hands. Very reliable 3rd down WR to go along with it.

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 Post subject: Re: The good hands team.
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:40 pm 
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Engram had great hands (with one horrendous exception in the post 2004 playoff game :().

There's a couple of things I like to look at here. One has to do with the system. In a pass happy system like Holmy ran, WRs tend to get complacent IMHO, because they know if they drop one, the next play is likely to be another pass anyway. In the run first system we are setting up here, with Lynch et al putting up 5 yds a carry, the WRs will have reduced opportunities for catches and yards, and so might tend to focus more on the chances they get.

The other thing is right there in the title of the thread. Hands. The guys we have now catch more with their hands and don't let the ball get into their bodies as much, where it can bounce off their pads and lead to embarrassing drops. I think this is a coaching issue, but it goes back to how they were taught-if at all-in college. It seems to me that players the catch with their hands in college, who have been taught right, do so when they get to the pros. If they don't in college, they seldom learn that in the pros.

The frustrated (and not very successful) coach in me loves it when players like Tate and Rice reach out with their hands and snatch the ball out of the air instead of always trying to make a basket catch with their arms against their belly. From what I've seen so far, yeah, we have good 'hands' guys, in more ways than one.

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 Post subject: Re: The good hands team.
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:47 pm 
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Throwdown wrote:
CANHawk wrote:
I hated every receiver on those super bowl xl era teams with the exception of Joe jervicious. With the amount of catchable balls those clowns dropped, Hass could have been all-pro 4 times over. I'm loving this group we have now though.
As for the op's comment about the left side of the o line, I'm not about to disagree (Walt and Hutch is a hof left side), but I think Okung is doing a remarkable job as the heir to a legend. He's well on his way to being a truly dominant l.t. IMO. He's shut down some elite competition (peppers, ware, Mario, Allen, etc). Hopefully big Carp hits his stride this year at l.g. and we can have a truly elite left side once again...


I don't know how you or anyone could hate DJack and the sprinkler.




I know right....DJack was my second favorite player on those teams after Hass....he was a gamer for sure.


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 Post subject: Re: The good hands team.
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:47 pm 
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I liked DJack but you couldn't rely on him, you knew he was going to let you down.

I think a good microcosm would be this: I don't remember as many highlight catches by our guys in 05, as Tate made last year by himself. That doesn't count Rice, Miller and now we have Harvin.

As team for team, I think our LBers were about even (Hill in his prime better than whoever we're trotting out in his place, Wright at least as good as Peterson, and Wagner (statistically) had a better rookie year than Lofa did), our DL played a bit better in 05 in terms of pass rush and stopping the run, and I'd take our secondary right now in every position, and we're talking about Trufant in his prime.

On offense to me, it's a split. In 05 our OL was better and Alexander was more effective behind it than this year's tandem OL and RB. Lynch is actually better at making his OL looking better, so it's mostly a wash...Lynch is more likely to get a 6-8 yard run, while Alexander (who had a ton of 5-10 yard runs) would be more likely to break one. I like our WR corps and TE corps better. I honestly couldn't tell you who was better: Hass at the peak of his game, or DangeRuss after his rookie year. Wilson definately has more upside.


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 Post subject: Re: The good hands team.
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:24 pm 
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"Separation is in preparation"...sounds like something Johnny Cochran would say.

JJ and Engram were the best ball catchers on that team and neither man could start on this team (and I mean no disrespect to either).

If the O-line can take care of itself, Miller can do everything JJ did (Knucklehead Stevens isn't even in the debate).

Harvin over Bobby (fo sure).

Tate and Rice over DJack and Koren (hands).

Baldwin is about to take it to another level (watch) and he's just the icing on the 2013 cake.

That's just my opinion, but if I'm even close, it really suggests how much better we are at the position. Both now and going forward. ; )

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 Post subject: Re: The good hands team.
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:49 am 
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HawkWow wrote:
"Separation is in preparation"...sounds like something Johnny Cochran would say.

JJ and Engram were the best ball catchers on that team and neither man could start on this team (and I mean no disrespect to either).

If the O-line can take care of itself, Miller can do everything JJ did (Knucklehead Stevens isn't even in the debate).

Harvin over Bobby (fo sure).

Tate and Rice over DJack and Koren (hands).

Baldwin is about to take it to another level (watch) and he's just the icing on the 2013 cake.

That's just my opinion, but if I'm even close, it really suggests how much better we are at the position. Both now and going forward. ; )

GO HAWKS!


Dammit if I don't agree with you 100% on this post. Harvin still has to prove himself and I love me some Bobby E, but I'm on board. Let's do this.

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 Post subject: Re: The good hands team.
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:07 pm 
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Sarlacc83 wrote:
I wonder how much of the dropsies was because the receivers were too busy counting steps and getting their exact place on the field juuuust right when they should have been looking for the ball? Having a less mechanical offensive system likely helps. (And credit goes to whoever mentioned this in a different thread, by the way. I wish I remembered the name.)

Also, does anyone remember the skit (on, I think the Bob Rivers show) where they 'interviewed' D-Jack in his home and during the interview, plates and knives and forks continually crashed to the ground?


of course it was the system; you can tell by all he success those guys had after they left...

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