EXTREME EDIT: P. MANNING VS WILSON (FIRST 2 YEARS)

The Original Post (plus Sack Totals)

Manning: 1108 Pass Att., 52 TDs, 43 INTs, 36 SACKs
Wilson......: 800 Pass Att., 52 TDs, 19 INTs, 77 SACKs

Didn't Manning have Marvin Harrison as well?

Is it still too early to call Wilson a future HOFer

Click to expand...

The Extreme Edition:

PEYTON MANNING VS RUSSELL WILSON

1st Pick, 1998....(DRAFT)....75th Pick, 2012
6'5.....................(HEIGHT).....................5'11
233.....................(WEIGHT).....................205

1108............(PASS ATTEMPTS).............800 (-308)
59.4..............(COMPLETION %)..............63.6 (+4.2)
7874.............(PASSING YARDS)...........6475 (-1399)
7.2 ...............(YARDS PER ATT.).............8.1 (+0.9)

52..................(TOUCHDOWNS)................52
43..................(INTERCEPTIONS)..............19 (-24)
36..................(TIMES SACKED)................77 (+ 41)
80.1..................(QB RATING)...............100.9 (+20.8)

50................(RUSH ATTEMPTS)............190 (+140)
135..............(RUSHING YARDS)...........1028 (+893)
3.1.............(YARDS PER CARRY).............5.4 (+2.3)
2...................(RUSHING TDS)......................5 (+3)
9.......................(FUMBLES)........................16 (+7)
7..................(FUMBLES LOST).....................8 (+1)

3-13, 13-3 ......(W-L RECORD)......11-5, 13-3 (+ 8 Wins)
7..............(4TH QTR COMEBACKS)..............7
8.............(GAME WINNING DRIVES)............9 (+1)

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The Ultimate Difference:

Wilson has +3 Total TDs, -23 Total Turnovers, -506 Total Yards w/ -168 Total Attempts whilst being Sacked 41 more times than Peyton Manning.

Manning's Key Support:
WR, Marvin Harrison (HoFer)
RB/WR, Marshall Faulk ('98, HoFer)
RB/WR, Edgerrian James ('99, Potential HoFer?)
WRs, Jerome Pathon ('98), Terrance Wilkins ('99)
TEs, Marcus Pollard, Ken Dilger

Wilson's Key Support:
WR, Golden Tate, Sidney Rice (mostly '12)
RB, Marshawn Lynch
WRs, Doug Baldwin (mostly '13), Jermaine Kearse ('13)
TE, Zach Miller, Anthony McCoy ('12), Luke Willson ('13)

Wilson is too short for the Hall of Fame.

Out front of the building is one of these:

hilarious!! :49ersmall:

Pandion Haliaetus":3em0o66d said:

Manning: 1108 Pass Att., 52 TDs, 43 INTs
Wilson: 800 Pass Att., 52 TDs, 19 INTs

Didn't Manning have Marvin Harrison as well?

Is it still too early to call Wilson a future HOFer?

Click to expand...

A superbowl is the clincher for me

Hey, maybe those two will play in the Super Bowl. I KNOW Russell will. Beat them in the preseason. At the rate Russell is going, HOF'er is a goal he WILL achieve. The guy IZ a prodigy.
"Peter Bird" [Pete Carroll] has really taken this team where NO Seahawks team has gone before. What a great bunch o' guys!

Pandion Haliaetus":3l2y16c8 said:

Manning: 1108 Pass Att., 52 TDs, 43 INTs
Wilson: 800 Pass Att., 52 TDs, 19 INTs

Didn't Manning have Marvin Harrison as well?

Is it still too early to call Wilson a future HOFer?

Click to expand...

Wow. And didn't Manning have Edge? That would pretty much counter Lynch. Those numbers shock me, actually, though we are definitely a better all-around team than Indy was at that time. Still very interesting stats and something I will consider when RW misses the occasional, relatively easy throw. Not much to worry about in the bigger picture.

Just think what Wilson's stats would've looked like with a healthy Rice and Harvin playing all year.

The other thing is that we are not a passing team. Our focus on the run makes passing stats kind of a premium item.

HawkWow":39r2um61 said:

Pandion Haliaetus":39r2um61 said:

Manning: 1108 Pass Att., 52 TDs, 43 INTs
Wilson: 800 Pass Att., 52 TDs, 19 INTs

Didn't Manning have Marvin Harrison as well?

Is it still too early to call Wilson a future HOFer?

Click to expand...

Wow. And didn't Manning have Edge? That would pretty much counter Lynch. Those numbers shock me, actually, though we are definitely a better all-around team than Indy was at that time. Still very interesting stats and something I will consider when RW misses the occasional, relatively easy throw. Not much to worry about in the bigger picture.

Click to expand...

Marshall Faulk his first year too

Pandion Haliaetus":29ykirc8 said:

Manning: 1108 Pass Att., 52 TDs, 43 INTs
Wilson: 800 Pass Att., 52 TDs, 19 INTs

Didn't Manning have Marvin Harrison as well?

Is it still too early to call Wilson a future HOFer?

Click to expand...

I wrote about this a couple of weeks back now. In case some out there hadn't connected the dots, Wilson's 52 Touchdowns ties Peyton Manning for the 2nd Most TD's Ever by a QB over their first 2 seasons. For those who are wondering who's #1 -- that would be Dan Marino (who had 68 in his first 2 seasons). That 1984 season for Marino was absolutely unbelievable. Wilson was JUUUUUUST a bit off of that pace, but a tie for 2nd Most All Time is very impressive indeed.

bowzerbird":2ug9hckx said:

Hey, maybe those two will play in the Super Bowl. I KNOW Russell will. Beat them in the preseason. At the rate Russell is going, HOF'er is a goal he WILL achieve. The guy IZ a prodigy.
"Peter Bird" [Pete Carroll] has really taken this team where NO Seahawks team has gone before. What a great bunch o' guys!

Click to expand...

Please tell me you didn't bring up preseason lol.

If Wilson had 1108 Pass Attempts from his current TD% and INT%...

Wilson @ 1108 Pass Att.= 72 TDs, 27 INTs (+45)

Dan Marino was amazing though and was also impressive early on however if you were to take his first two full time seasons (year 2 and 3, as I don't want to do more math) you'd get:

Marino: 1131 Pass Att., 78 TDs, 38 INTs (+40)

Manning is 6'5
Marino is 6'4
Wilson is 5'11

If that Chahida dude saw this, I wonder if he'd think Russell is still a game manager.

Now could you imagine Russell Wilson...

In 2012 With: 66.7% of No. 1 QB reps in OTAs/Training Camp (instead of 33.3% he got behind Flynn and Jackson). Throw in a healthy Doug Baldwin.

In 2013 With: a more healthy and competent O-line, a healthy M-Rob, healthy Sidney Rice, Percy Harvin, Anthony McCoy and Zach Miller. Not counting the O-Line (in which every starter BUT James Carpenter has missed at least 1 game, I know the irony), those 5 players listed above have missed 48 out of 80 possibles games or exactly 60%. Who knows what Wilson could have done with that 60% of opportunities lost.

Its insane that Wilson pretty much posted the same stat line in two consecutive years but how much different the health of his supporting cast was this year compared to 2012.

HawkWow":1h3rirad said:

Pandion Haliaetus":1h3rirad said:

Manning: 1108 Pass Att., 52 TDs, 43 INTs
Wilson: 800 Pass Att., 52 TDs, 19 INTs

Didn't Manning have Marvin Harrison as well?

Is it still too early to call Wilson a future HOFer?

Click to expand...

Wow. And didn't Manning have Edge? That would pretty much counter Lynch. Those numbers shock me, actually, though we are definitely a better all-around team than Indy was at that time. Still very interesting stats and something I will consider when RW misses the occasional, relatively easy throw. Not much to worry about in the bigger picture.

Click to expand...

This. We're spoiled, that's for sure.

Ands it's not like all the other elite QBs are going 18/20 with 2 drops all the time.

Sturm":s73zkwae said:

Just think what Wilson's stats would've looked like with a healthy Rice and Harvin playing all year.

Click to expand...

Christ, I keep forgetting that we have Sidney Rice and that other guy.

Pandion Haliaetus":1q7jvvzk said:

Now could you imagine Russell Wilson...

In 2012 With: 66.7% of No. 1 QB reps in OTAs/Training Camp (instead of 33.3% he got behind Flynn and Jackson). Throw in a healthy Doug Baldwin.

In 2013With: a more healthy and competent O-line, a healthy M-Rob, healthy Sidney Rice, Percy Harvin, Anthony McCoy and Zach Miller. Not counting the O-Line (in which every starter BUT James Carpenter has missed at least 1 game, I know the irony), those 5 players listed above have missed 48 out of 80 possibles games or exactly 60%. Who knows what Wilson could have done with that 60% of opportunities lost.

Its insane that Wilson pretty much posted the same stat line in two consecutive years but how much different the health of his supporting cast was this year compared to 2012.

Click to expand...

Just talking with a friend this morning over the Seattletimes and one thing we noticed & agree on is that whoever gets injured in practice / game day, ANY ALTERNATIVE that comes in to take their place IS JUST AS GOOD. Maybe not all, but think about it, remember guys who went in to sub. They did just as well and proved they are as viable a player as they guy they replaced.

I keep hearing about the "band of brothers" the Seahawks have created, I hope that when ANY of their contracts are up, when the draft comes up, when salary talks come up, they remember that because they play SOOOO well together, protect so well, mind-read so well [to anticipate plays] are a BAND of BROS that money DOES NOT talk and let the BS walk AWAY! Hey, there's sponsorships & product support: they get paid VERY well for that.
We all want to see this team STICK TO GETHA!! [these are :thfight7: words]. They have proven how well they work togetha. So don't trade for the moolah, get more sponsorships or other money ventures instead.
PLEASE!!!!!! :13:

Bump for the truth and a most awesome edit to the original post.

Pandion Haliaetus":1j9n2kpz said:

Bump for the truth and a most awesome edit to the original post.

Click to expand...

+1

Sturm":2fdcbj0r said:

Just think what Wilson's stats would've looked like with a healthy Rice and Harvin playing all year.

Click to expand...

Scary. Seriously I never imagined he's actually better than Peyton at the same point in their career.

HawkWow":3vtvau9e said:

Wow. And didn't Manning have Edge? That would pretty much counter Lynch. Those numbers shock me, actually, though we are definitely a better all-around team than Indy was at that time. Still very interesting stats and something I will consider when RW misses the occasional, relatively easy throw. Not much to worry about in the bigger picture.

Click to expand...

Manning had Faulk go for 1300 yards his Rookie Season... and at that point Marvin Harrison was in his 3rd year and had never topped 866 yards in a season (he had about 775 and missed 4 games)... the rest of his receiving group left a bit to be desired...

It was Manning's 2nd year that Harrison took off because Manning basically threw to him and his RB and nobody else.... Harrison had 1500+ yards the next 4 years until Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark came along....

And I honestly think the running back group the Seahawks have are really a wash with what he had in Indy.... and after his 2nd year Edge had a real tough time staying healthy until his 5th year in the league.... something Wilson will probably have to face considering the age of Lynch.

Also, what truly matters are the following stats:

10+ wins in 12 of 13 years with Manning as Starter
Manning didn't miss a start from 1998 - 2010
In Manning's entire time in Indy, they had 2 D's finish top 5 scoring... and 5 top 10.... (Wilson has had the #1 D both seasons)
Indy was top 10 in Yards and Scoring O in 11/13 years Manning was the Starter.....
The Defenses in Indy averaged allowing 342 points per season (21.4 ppg)... Last years D allowed 245 and set a Franchise Record this year by allowing 231....

I think all Seahawks fans need to be thankful of our Defense, hope that it stays that way for a long time.... and hope that Wilson takes a leap next year because in his first two years he has put up nearly identical numbers... hopefully Harvin allows that to change, and Lynch doesn't break down anytime soon.... a Hall of Fame career isn't made in 2 seasons!

He is off to a great start... But Peyton has done the following over the course of 15 seasons of playing:
65.5% comp. 4330 yards 33 TDs and 15 Int per season..... and an average record of 11-5, 2 Super Bowls and 1 World Title....

I think the numbers he needs to worry about right now are 29434 (Yardage Franchise Record), 195 (TD Franchise Record) and trying to get to and win a Super Bowl... after that he can worry about Hall of Fame.... because that tends to take care of itself....

You know prior to Wilson, Seahawks went 4 years ranked in the bottom third in the NFL in Scoring Offense.

In 2012, with pretty much the same supporting cast Tarvaris Jackson had in 2011 sans injuries, the offense jumped to 23rd to 9th and about +90 in Points Scored with the arrival of Wilson and good health.

In 2013, with similar injuries situations to 2011 (WR and O-Line) and teams figuring out the Seahawks game plan a little bit more behind Wilson, he still led the offense to 8th best in the NFL in Points Scored.

And the 2nd consecutive season where the offense scored 400 points.

Points win games not yards.

And the whole offense and defense thing is almost mutually exclusive... Seahawks don't turn the ball over as much as the league average, which puts the defense in a better position as well.

And lastly, my question in the OP was obviously rhetoric... of course Wilson needs a tenured body of evidence to be considered HoF.

But he's damn good as any QB can be starting in his first two season despite a size disadvantage.

PS He'll win more Superbowls than both Mannings combined.