Red Zone Ineffectiveness

rjdriver

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
3,013
Reaction score
1,624
Location
Utah
I have to admit this is the one area that still very much concerns me. I remember heading into the playoffs last year, the Hawks were dismantling opponents and were putting the ball into the end zone with greater frequency. (Going off what I remember). We seemed much "hotter" if you will.

I remember at the end of the Titans game, Max Unger said "The red zone is still kicking our tails. We need to get it done there. I don’t have an answer for it right now. We [will watch] the film and come up with something."

Is it me or have the Hawks not improved at all? Seems they are kicking way too many field goals after reaching the red zone. What is most disconcerting, is that it seems we are not scoring TD's even after have first and goals deep in the red zone, first and goal from the five and better. I'm sure it's a combination of play calling and lack of receiver separation, but I would sure feel better if we were trending the right direction in the red zone headed into the playoffs. When we lose it's always by less than seven points, one or two TD's instead of field goals and we would be virtually unbeatable.

My question is what do you think is the primary cause of our red zone woes? Since I didn't look up the stats, hopefully they are not as bad as they seem or "feel" lately as I watch the games, but am curious what your opinions are. Also, I am hoping that Percy's ability to create separation and mismatches facilitates improvement in the red zone.

In a nutshell,

Are we really struggling in the RZ or is it just me?

Why are we struggling in the RZ?

How are we going to improve in the RZ during the playoffs?
 

SeahawksMSHing

New member
Joined
Nov 29, 2013
Messages
84
Reaction score
0
Since Rice went out our Red Zone offense has struggled and I suspect its because we have not big WR to get quick slants, fades and take advantage of Height. The adjustment is Kearse and going more read option with Lynch, Harvin and Wilson in the backfield. Also we need to force the ball to Tate on screens like Denver does with Welker and Thomas... I think they will adjust and we should be fine. I do agree that kicking field goals instead of getting TD's will cost us somewhere in the playoffs and is a big key!
 

ManBunts

New member
Joined
Jun 20, 2013
Messages
430
Reaction score
0
First I'll throw out the big asterisk here: I have no facts to back this is up, this is just my perception from watching the games.

That said, I agree, compared to last year, it does feel like we've scored fewer touchdowns in the redzone. However, we've had way more field goals. I think Hauschka is the leading scorer in the league this year? And while nobody likes settling for a field goal, I'll take that over a punt any day. But some theories I have are:

-We haven't been in the red zone as much this year. More scoring from outside on deep balls and yards after the catch

-More use of the bootleg and screen pass. I like and dislike this. Like because we're putting more faith in letting Russell captain the ship. Dislike because (and we all remember Lynch's finger) it's too cute sometimes. You don't pass from 1 yard out when you have Lynch. You put your faith in him, you let Mike Rob lead the way, and you pound the ball in. So what if the other team expects it. Our WRs and TEs are physical, but they lack the size of a Graham and Megatron to just muscle into the end zone and pull the ball down, and Lynch is good for a reason. Have faith in Russell, but have faith in Marshawn and our line also.

But again, points are points, and when you have a defense like ours, they can make a field goal go a long way
 

Evil_Shenanigans

New member
Joined
Sep 10, 2012
Messages
3,322
Reaction score
0
The ever evolving (revolving?) OL has been a major hindrance this season. I fully expect to see wholesale change to our OL in the off-season. Likely not all of them but there are a few opportunities there for certain! I watched Nick Foles stand in the pocket for ~5 seconds Saturday waiting for his receiver (Cooper?) to get free before lobbing him a TD. That is an eternity! What could Russell do with 5 seconds? I don't have any stats for this, but I suspect it is closer to 2-3 than 5. Granted, not all of this is on the Line as our receivers have struggled to get separation. I suspect that Health is the biggest factor. Half our Receiving corps and nearly every Offensive Lineman is either on the IR or has been injured a significant portion of the season.

2cents
 

tom sawyer

New member
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Messages
1,737
Reaction score
0
Zach Miller will play a pivitol roll in 20-30 yard gains, look for Zach to ease the pressure in the RZ
 

SoulfishHawk

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 6, 2012
Messages
29,421
Reaction score
9,872
Location
Sammamish, WA
I wonder what the record is for threads talking about "concern" or "worry" about something in a week.
 

RolandDeschain

Well-known member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
33,116
Reaction score
941
Location
Kissimmee, FL
It was ridiculously obvious we have red zone problems, and offensive problems in general, when we got five interceptions in New York and scored a total of 23 points. You know what Peyton Manning's offense would have had with five extra ints? Like 70 damn points.
 

volsunghawk

New member
Joined
Mar 5, 2007
Messages
8,860
Reaction score
0
Location
Right outside Richard Sherman's house
Here's something to consider:

In the late middle of the season, the Seahawks were putting up some pretty good performances. 33-10 over the Falcons, 41-20 over the Vikes, and 34-7 over the Saints. Very few people were talking about red zone issues or offensive struggles at that point.

Then we hit our last 4 games, went 2-2, and had plenty of offensive struggles. People asked, "What happened?" and started trying to diagnose what was "wrong" with our offense. I have an answer...

We started playing better defenses.

Look at the teams against whom we finished our season: San Francisco, New York Giants, Arizona, St. Louis.

If you look at their rankings in the Football Outsiders' Defensive Efficiency Ratings, they were all outstanding.

SF - 13th
NYG - 6th
Arizona - 2nd
St. Louis - 12th

If you look at the weighted ratings which give more weight to recent games to give a better sense of how they were playing at the end of the season, those rankings only go UP.

SF - 11th
NYG - 4th
Arizona - 2nd
St. Louis - 7th

Now this isn't to say that there aren't things the offense needs to work on, nor is it to suggest that the red zone concerns are imaginary. But the fact is that there were two teams on the field in each of those games, and offenses tend to perform better against weaker defenses. Conversely, facing a tough slate of defenses often results in a dip in offensive output. Ideally, we'd be able to face a poor defense all the way through the SB, but that's not going to happen. The Saints D isn't great against the run and can be burned through the air, but if we get past New Orleans, we still have to face the SF/Carolina winner... so I think we can expect our offense to continue to struggle in that game. We'll just have to content ourselves with knowing that the team that ranked 1st in overall D and weighted D according to Football Outsiders is our very own Seahawks, so if the opponent's D is making Wilson & Company's lives rough, our own D will be doing the same to their offense.
 

SoulfishHawk

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 6, 2012
Messages
29,421
Reaction score
9,872
Location
Sammamish, WA
None of it has a damn thing to do with what happens this Saturday. Score 20+ points, play D the way they always do at home = victory.
 

Sgt. Largent

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2012
Messages
25,560
Reaction score
7,610
rjdriver":17zk7f1m said:
Are we really struggling in the RZ or is it just me?

It's just you. Here's the red zone stats for 2012 and 2013 for the Hawks.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/re ... coring-pct

We're actually almost 3% higher this year than last. I think a lot of people are just remembering the last six games last year and the playoffs where our offense was REALLY clicking.

So IMO the question shouldn't be about Red Zone efficiency, the question should be "Should we expect this offense to do what it did during the 2nd half of 2012 ALL THE TIME?" Fair?
 

WilsonMVP

New member
Joined
Apr 24, 2013
Messages
2,771
Reaction score
0
As hot as we were last year our offense SUCKED in the playoffs. Well at least it sucked in the first half. Against the redskins we scored 13 points in the first half and against the Falcons we scored 0.
 

Sgt. Largent

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2012
Messages
25,560
Reaction score
7,610
WilsonMVP":349g5t39 said:
As hot as we were last year our offense SUCKED in the playoffs. Well at least it sucked in the first half. Against the redskins we scored 13 points in the first half and against the Falcons we scored 0.

I've been beating that drum since the Holmgren era. For some reason we have forever been a slow starting team, which drives me bat$*&! crazy.

Just once I'd like to see Pete let Russell come out during the first couple of possessions and sling it around, and not be so damn conservative.
 

jblaze

New member
Joined
Aug 30, 2013
Messages
1,201
Reaction score
0
Early in the year Bevell seemed to be getting cute with the play calling and wasn't running Lynch much inside the 5. Since like week 10, that's all he's called. Now there's a part of this which is setting the precedent so you can play action off it in the playoffs once they expect you to run but it's also that Lynch is our strength.

I think there will be some opportunities to run play action off Lynch in the playoffs. I'm hoping they've held some cool gadget type of plays, naked bootlegs, etc.

Remember that Miller cut block fall down TD earlier in the season? They tried to run that with a OL a few weeks ago and it failed. That's the type of trickyness I'm talking about. I think there's opportunity there.
 
OP
OP
rjdriver

rjdriver

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
3,013
Reaction score
1,624
Location
Utah
Sgt. Largent":314xxjid said:
WilsonMVP":314xxjid said:
As hot as we were last year our offense SUCKED in the playoffs. Well at least it sucked in the first half. Against the redskins we scored 13 points in the first half and against the Falcons we scored 0.

I've been beating that drum since the Holmgren era. For some reason we have forever been a slow starting team, which drives me bat$*&! crazy.

Just once I'd like to see Pete let Russell come out during the first couple of possessions and sling it around, and not be so damn conservative.


We came out strong against the Colts. Go figure.

Remember too, we almost always defer if we win the toss. That's one less possession in the first half.

I look for a significant offensive improvement against the Saints. I agree the Miller has some big plays and I have a feeling Doug is going to come up with a couple of huge catches on third down.
 

sc85sis

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 13, 2010
Messages
8,497
Reaction score
1,347
Location
Houston Suburbs
Pete generally always deferred at USC because he wanted his defense on the field to set the tone early, and that extra possession to start the second half.

When he came to Seattle, he generally did not defer the first season because the defense wasn't good enough yet. They are now, obviously.

I don't have actual stats to back this up, but anecdotally, I have the sense that both USC and Seattle generally win games if they win the toss. If they don't win the toss, it's literally a toss up. I'd have to say that Pete knows what he's doing by choosing to defer.
 

TwistedHusky

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 8, 2013
Messages
6,888
Reaction score
1,054
You cannot compare 2012 to 2013 outright.

As anyone remembers, in 2012 we had quite a few barely there games, it was back and forth for a while and then finally Chicago really kicked us out of our shell. From there the Seahawks offense became a buzzsaw. In fact, last year the big danger was our offense. Remember that our defense was giving away games occasionally but it seemed like every time we got the ball we scored. I am betting the points per game was significantly higher last year in those final games than this year.

Then again, the Rams damned near stoned our offense last year. So it might have been we were feasting on teams like Buffalo, but even against teams like SF we were romping.

One thing I have noticed is that several touchdowns we missed came from guys like McCoy and Robinson. Robinson in particular I remember was more of a red zone threat, this year it is like the guy is only on the team half the time and we almost ignore him as an offensive weapon. Then again, Willson is enough of an offensive weapon to make us forget McCoy, who was not blessed with the most reliable hands and couldn't outrun the defenders when he caught it. (But he made some CLUTCH catches for us last year too).

I think part is, after all the crap we talked about Rice being overpaid, we miss him. He did come through for us, got open when we needed it and gave us some big long catches. We also haven't really been using Miller as the weapon we know he is.

The offset is that the defense is MUCH better, so maybe we don't need the buzzsaw. But we sure shouldn't overlook some of the guys we are disregarding right now.

And it did cost us games, Indy is a game that we should have won had we just done something with our trips to the red zone.

Still, it isn't bad when there are so many reasons to struggle and you still win.
 

scutterhawk

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
9,806
Reaction score
1,759
Cap'n Obviouse here--The closer to the Goal Line = the more the congestion, = the smaller the windows for passes.
The problem with having to SETTLE for field goals, is that you're inching up the score, you have to have 3 fairly successful drives and 3 field goals to trump 1 TD.
Where the Seahawks have their best performances in the red zone that I've noticed, is when they do a hurry-up Offense, and get the Beast going before the Defense can get set up, adjust to each other and choke off the running lanes.
There aren't many successful one-on-ones against ML in the Defenses that he's run against, and when the O-Line doesn't have to try'n hold the line of attack for way too long.
 

themunn

Well-known member
Joined
May 18, 2012
Messages
3,946
Reaction score
463
The_Z_Man":dfc0wgiw said:
SoulfishHawk":dfc0wgiw said:
None of it has a damn thing to do with what happens this Saturday. Score 20+ points, play D the way they always do at home = victory.

Need to score 28 or more points.

Saints will get 27 -- at least 2 of those scores will come on drives extended/keyed by cheap penalties against our D. Bank on it.

If the offense doesn't come out and play better than it has the last month, we are one and done.

I expect the offense will.

you think we'll give up 27 points when we only gave up more than 21 in non-garbage time twice all season? (I'm not including at home to Arizona when we simply allowed them to march down the field to chew up their own clock).

And in those games we had MAJOR miscues - one was the game against Tampa Bay where we came out flat, don't expect that in a postseason game. The other was at the Colts when we just fluked away some points - blocked field goal returned for a TD and a 71 yard TD pass. I'm not saying it can't happen again, but evidence is there to suggest we won't give up more than 20, especially since the defense has been lights out in the last 7 games.
 

Sarlacc83

Active member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
17,110
Reaction score
1
Location
Portland, OR
The_Z_Man":2c6sitzs said:
SoulfishHawk":2c6sitzs said:
None of it has a damn thing to do with what happens this Saturday. Score 20+ points, play D the way they always do at home = victory.

Need to score 28 or more points.

Saints will get 27 -- at least 2 of those scores will come on drives extended/keyed by cheap penalties against our D. Bank on it.

I'm not banking on it. If the Saints win, they did it the same way as Arizona - keeping the score low. I mean, the Saints average 17 on the road, and they didn't even get to 27 against the Eagles defense. Why would anyone expect them to get there against Seattle?
 
Top