My thoughts on the win and the offense...

jkitsune

New member
Joined
Mar 5, 2007
Messages
3,339
Reaction score
0
All right, I usually don't write these long posts anymore, but we also don't go to the NFCCG that often, so I figured a special occasion warrants some writing.

This'll be longish, and I might follow-up with more later, but for those who just want the short version without reading the rest:

I'm happy with the win, and optimistic for next week.

Wilson was pretty bad, and hasn't lit the world on fire recently, but great players have bad games and even prolonged slumps. He's still a dangerous QB with a history of clutch play, and I don't expect his struggles to continue.

A lot of props to Percy for coming right back out after the first cheap shot to the head he took. I understand the frustration that he's concussed, and wouldn't fault anyone for that, but if the 'Harvin doesn't care' crowd is to be believed, Percy easily could've sat out after the first hit.

Bevell was confusing today, at best.

Lynch is a monster.

For those who're still with me, I'll do my best to be worth the effort. I don't watch film, I don't re-watch games, so those who do can correct me as needed.

Darrell Bevell is a frustrating man, even at his best, but it seems like he finds new and unique ways to be frustrating on a weekly basis. At times, his insistence on running on first (and second) down leaves me wanting to claw my eyes out. At others, it's the empty sets on 3rd and short with Lynch off the field. At other times it's been a lack of a short passing game. I won't be sad to see him go, because like with Gus and the D last year, the offensive talent seems to underperform its potential on a relatively routine basis. I saw a lot of complaints about Bevell in the gameday forum, a lot of which has to do with the "when to run vs pass" decision. A lot of it blamed Bevell for Wilson's struggles. I'm not sure I agree.

One of my biggest complaints about Bevell has historically been his obsession with running the football and the lack of a short passing game. He's earned these complaints, but on a day where Lynch was beasting and Wilson struggling, he can hardly be blamed for the balance of playcalling. He called at least 3 slants on 3rd and short, a play he seemed to lack early in the year, and Wilson (except for the first conversion) routinely put it behind his receiver. What does the offense look like if Wilson is able to hit those slants today? We can't really know.

It's easy to criticize the passing on the last Seahawks drive, and every last ounce of that criticism is earned. When Lynch is working, Wilson isn't, and all you need is some first downs and to chew the clock, running a boot on first down is asinine. Similarly on the 3rd and 2 - thank goodness it worked out. I won't belabor this point, because it's fairly apparent that was questionable.

What bothers me more is the side-to-side running game. The Saints were clearly geared, between Tate, Harvin, and Wilson, to contain and protect the edges, and despite the Saints' repeated stuffing of toss sweeps, power sweeps, etc, we kept going back. Couple that with an insistence on deep play-action throws when Wilson is off, and I think you get what we saw today: few first downs, numerous field goals, and overall an inefficient and frustrating day. Where were the targets for Miller? Perhaps the filmwatchers can tell me if he was open and overlooked, but these are the days where Miller over the middle seemed like a huge absence.

Also, can anyone who knows the X's and O's explain to me what happened near the end of the half? 7 chances to score six, and it seemed like every play was a boot or a sweep.

Lest we forget that the game is played by players and not coordinators, let's talk about our roster.

Let's start with Percy. Am I the only one that thought the second-half offense could have used a lot more #11? What a shame that he went out. We were no juggernaut the first half, but it was apparent to me the Saints were paying a LOT of attention to Harvin (and, perhaps, gunning for him, but it's hard to say) and, IIRC, at one point in the 4th quarter he had as many receptions as the rest of our wideouts combined. He will catch a lot of flak for being concussed, especially if he misses the NFCCG next week, and God forbid we lose a playoff game because our offense struggles when Harvin isn't out there, because I'm sure he will become the scapegoat (along with Bevell). Still, I was impressed with him - did you see the look on the guy's face after that first hit? He was furious he was coming out of the game. I don't buy that he doesn't want to play - he could've sat the rest of the game after taking that hit to the head, but he got right back out there, made some big plays, and took a lot more abuse. Hell, he could have let PC shut him down for the postseason if that was really his game. If his season ends because of a concussion, when his hip is fine to play, that will be a huge lost opportunity for redemption, and just terrible, terrible luck. Percy is a terribly, terribly unlucky player thus far. But I'm not going to question the dude's heart. It's a shame, too, because there's no 'playing through' a concussion in today's NFL (not that there should be). Harvin will have no say over whether he gets to play next week.

I would've preferred not to see Wilson hang him out to dry so often, incidentally.

Speaking of Wilson, I don't know if it's jitters, weather, the rain, or what, but he was routinely behind and over his receivers today. It's not like Wilson to struggle for weeks on end, but even the best players have bad games, and even the best players have prolonged slumps. Even Manning and Brady suck sometimes. Some will blame Bevell - I'd say it's 50/50. I don't like the bootlegs, or having Wilson go deep over and over in the second half, or the lack of throws to Miller, but some of that is Wilson's choice once the ball is snapped. Still, he did a nice job avoiding pressure, throwing the ball away, and at the very least, keeping the ball away from some Saints DBs that, let's be honest, were pretty stellar today. What gives me hope is the fact that Wilson didn't seem panicked - he chose the open receiver, he didn't throw into tight coverage usually, he threw it away rather than take a sack, and didn't try to do too much. He even dropped a couple of beautiful passes onto Harvin and Baldwin at crucial points in the game for huge 3rd down conversions. There were some drops that hurt him, too, and we even saw generally sure-handed receivers like Tate struggle in that regard.

Is it possible that Wilson was just a little juiced playing his first home playoff game in front of the 12th man? Perhaps those 'new slick gloves' that the reporter talked about weren't so hot after all? Who knows? But I expect Wilson to compensate for it and be much better next week.

What gives me the most hope for this team is the fact that our star QB can play a terrible game at home and we still win by 8 points (and, if not for some lucky breaks for the Saints, probably win by more than that). The Saints were an 11-5 team in the regular season, with a HOF QB, a revived running game, and a suddenly-stout D, and we beat them by 8. I know it doesn't 'feel' as good as it could have, but let's not lose sight of the most important numbers. That's WITH a fumble-that-should-have-been, the ridiculous bounce to Meachem, and the two dropped interceptions. Those sorts of fluky plays don't usually repeat themselves.

Lastly, there were some frustrating penalties, but they were FAR fewer than the Hawks have drawn in the past. I'll take that.

Long story short... even without Wilson playing anything near his best game, Lynch and the defense combined to post a pretty convincing win over a really good team. We're in the NFCCG AT HOME. Enjoy it, guys. This doesn't happen often. We have a great, mentally tough, well-coached team, and we are one game away from the Super Bowl.

Go Hawks.
 

Riley12

New member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
2,770
Reaction score
0
Bevell wasn't confusing. He was predictable.

At 9 minutes left in the third, he switched to a "Play to not lose" ground game with poor results because fans in the stands
were calling out exactly what we were going to do. If we knew, sure as shit the Saints were going to know what was coming each down.

So frustrating.
 

OreIdahawk

New member
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
115
Reaction score
0
Location
Ontario, Oregon
I REALLY hope that Bevell gets a head coaching job somewhere. I am so sick of him. I really think his playcalling has held us back on multiple occasions.
 

Anthony!

New member
Joined
Nov 19, 2013
Messages
4,050
Reaction score
0
Location
Kent, wa
I agree the play calling changed big time. It got conservative and predictable. That said RW did not play great. Now some of that was play calling, some was o-line, some was drops, some was WR getting open, some was RW. However as he usually does he makes the play when it counts. He played well against the Rams and not so well the 2 games prior. I am not to worried I think he will play great next game, as long as Bevel stops changing the play calling and lets RW be RW all the times not just some times.
 
OP
OP
jkitsune

jkitsune

New member
Joined
Mar 5, 2007
Messages
3,339
Reaction score
0
OreIdahawk":3jv24kgl said:
I REALLY hope that Bevell gets a head coaching job somewhere. I am so sick of him. I really think his playcalling has held us back on multiple occasions.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. He's not terrible, despite what people like to say, but he's not great, and I think we could do better. IMO the decision on whether to retain or get rid of a coach should (usually) be 'can we realistically hire a replacement that is definitely better than him? Is that person available and are we likely to get them?' I think the answer is a resounding 'yes' for Bevell. Coaches want to come here, players want to come here, particularly if it becomes a stepping stone for HC jobs.

The O has been good under Bevell. But it has been maddeningly inconsistent.
 

morgulon1

Well-known member
Joined
May 2, 2009
Messages
7,837
Reaction score
3,698
Location
Spokane, Wa
OreIdahawk":1dmybzlu said:
I REALLY hope that Bevell gets a head coaching job somewhere. I am so sick of him. I really think his playcalling has held us back on multiple occasions.


I hope he moves on as well, look at our defense with Quinn now that Gus got that head coaching gig.I concur with the assessment that we should of been able to score a touch down with 6 plays in the red zone at the end of the first half. The run play off the right side of the line had worked like a charm and what does Bevel call? Shit. Or how about some misdirection? Not the same 2 plays 6 times.

I got tired of watching the Saints crying about PI. Our receivers weren't .

We tried as hard as we could to give this game to NOLA . We as fans are lucky we didn't lose. I blame crappy execution
and play calling on offense.I also blame having the week off, I can see how teams lose their sharpness . Our defense once again won the game for us. They held a future hall of fame qb in check (twice in one season).

I hope we don't lose Bennett this offseason, I think he has been instrumental in our success this year.
 

Blitzer88

Active member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
12,820
Reaction score
0
Location
Seattle, WA
The offense and more importantly, Russell, needs to get it together or else we will be in trouble.
 

Anthony!

New member
Joined
Nov 19, 2013
Messages
4,050
Reaction score
0
Location
Kent, wa
Blitzer88":7tn0e7xe said:
The offense and more importantly, Russell, needs to get it together or else we will be in trouble.


That's true but it first and foremost starts with Bevell. Look w hat we did for much of the first half. Then in the 2nd we have a big lead and he goes all conservative.
 

sutz

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Messages
29,256
Reaction score
5,264
Location
Kent, WA
Somehow, as long as Pete Carroll is our head coach, I doubt that we'll ever have an OC that we like. ;)
 

HawKnPeppa

New member
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
4,733
Reaction score
0
It would be our luck that Quinn gets hired away from us and Bevell gets no further interest because of his deer-in-the-headlights, in-game play calling.

I'm thinking that Pete an TC are comfy with somebody that runs an offense that is simple enough for them to understand. Bevell fits what they want like a glove.
 

Darrenv17

New member
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
197
Reaction score
0
Location
new york,ny
OreIdahawk":pca8s3ud said:
I REALLY hope that Bevell gets a head coaching job somewhere. I am so sick of him. I really think his playcalling has held us back on multiple occasions.
:13:
 

UGotHawked

New member
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
Messages
392
Reaction score
0
jkitsune":2qykzbuf said:
All right, I usually don't write these long posts anymore, but we also don't go to the NFCCG that often, so I figured a special occasion warrants some writing.

This'll be longish, and I might follow-up with more later, but for those who just want the short version without reading the rest:

I'm happy with the win, and optimistic for next week.

Wilson was pretty bad, and hasn't lit the world on fire recently, but great players have bad games and even prolonged slumps. He's still a dangerous QB with a history of clutch play, and I don't expect his struggles to continue.

A lot of props to Percy for coming right back out after the first cheap shot to the head he took. I understand the frustration that he's concussed, and wouldn't fault anyone for that, but if the 'Harvin doesn't care' crowd is to be believed, Percy easily could've sat out after the first hit.

Bevell was confusing today, at best.

Lynch is a monster.

For those who're still with me, I'll do my best to be worth the effort. I don't watch film, I don't re-watch games, so those who do can correct me as needed.

Darrell Bevell is a frustrating man, even at his best, but it seems like he finds new and unique ways to be frustrating on a weekly basis. At times, his insistence on running on first (and second) down leaves me wanting to claw my eyes out. At others, it's the empty sets on 3rd and short with Lynch off the field. At other times it's been a lack of a short passing game. I won't be sad to see him go, because like with Gus and the D last year, the offensive talent seems to underperform its potential on a relatively routine basis. I saw a lot of complaints about Bevell in the gameday forum, a lot of which has to do with the "when to run vs pass" decision. A lot of it blamed Bevell for Wilson's struggles. I'm not sure I agree.

One of my biggest complaints about Bevell has historically been his obsession with running the football and the lack of a short passing game. He's earned these complaints, but on a day where Lynch was beasting and Wilson struggling, he can hardly be blamed for the balance of playcalling. He called at least 3 slants on 3rd and short, a play he seemed to lack early in the year, and Wilson (except for the first conversion) routinely put it behind his receiver. What does the offense look like if Wilson is able to hit those slants today? We can't really know.

It's easy to criticize the passing on the last Seahawks drive, and every last ounce of that criticism is earned. When Lynch is working, Wilson isn't, and all you need is some first downs and to chew the clock, running a boot on first down is asinine. Similarly on the 3rd and 2 - thank goodness it worked out. I won't belabor this point, because it's fairly apparent that was questionable.

What bothers me more is the side-to-side running game. The Saints were clearly geared, between Tate, Harvin, and Wilson, to contain and protect the edges, and despite the Saints' repeated stuffing of toss sweeps, power sweeps, etc, we kept going back. Couple that with an insistence on deep play-action throws when Wilson is off, and I think you get what we saw today: few first downs, numerous field goals, and overall an inefficient and frustrating day. Where were the targets for Miller? Perhaps the filmwatchers can tell me if he was open and overlooked, but these are the days where Miller over the middle seemed like a huge absence.

Also, can anyone who knows the X's and O's explain to me what happened near the end of the half? 7 chances to score six, and it seemed like every play was a boot or a sweep.

Lest we forget that the game is played by players and not coordinators, let's talk about our roster.

Let's start with Percy. Am I the only one that thought the second-half offense could have used a lot more #11? What a shame that he went out. We were no juggernaut the first half, but it was apparent to me the Saints were paying a LOT of attention to Harvin (and, perhaps, gunning for him, but it's hard to say) and, IIRC, at one point in the 4th quarter he had as many receptions as the rest of our wideouts combined. He will catch a lot of flak for being concussed, especially if he misses the NFCCG next week, and God forbid we lose a playoff game because our offense struggles when Harvin isn't out there, because I'm sure he will become the scapegoat (along with Bevell). Still, I was impressed with him - did you see the look on the guy's face after that first hit? He was furious he was coming out of the game. I don't buy that he doesn't want to play - he could've sat the rest of the game after taking that hit to the head, but he got right back out there, made some big plays, and took a lot more abuse. Hell, he could have let PC shut him down for the postseason if that was really his game. If his season ends because of a concussion, when his hip is fine to play, that will be a huge lost opportunity for redemption, and just terrible, terrible luck. Percy is a terribly, terribly unlucky player thus far. But I'm not going to question the dude's heart. It's a shame, too, because there's no 'playing through' a concussion in today's NFL (not that there should be). Harvin will have no say over whether he gets to play next week.

I would've preferred not to see Wilson hang him out to dry so often, incidentally.

Speaking of Wilson, I don't know if it's jitters, weather, the rain, or what, but he was routinely behind and over his receivers today. It's not like Wilson to struggle for weeks on end, but even the best players have bad games, and even the best players have prolonged slumps. Even Manning and Brady suck sometimes. Some will blame Bevell - I'd say it's 50/50. I don't like the bootlegs, or having Wilson go deep over and over in the second half, or the lack of throws to Miller, but some of that is Wilson's choice once the ball is snapped. Still, he did a nice job avoiding pressure, throwing the ball away, and at the very least, keeping the ball away from some Saints DBs that, let's be honest, were pretty stellar today. What gives me hope is the fact that Wilson didn't seem panicked - he chose the open receiver, he didn't throw into tight coverage usually, he threw it away rather than take a sack, and didn't try to do too much. He even dropped a couple of beautiful passes onto Harvin and Baldwin at crucial points in the game for huge 3rd down conversions. There were some drops that hurt him, too, and we even saw generally sure-handed receivers like Tate struggle in that regard.

Is it possible that Wilson was just a little juiced playing his first home playoff game in front of the 12th man? Perhaps those 'new slick gloves' that the reporter talked about weren't so hot after all? Who knows? But I expect Wilson to compensate for it and be much better next week.

What gives me the most hope for this team is the fact that our star QB can play a terrible game at home and we still win by 8 points (and, if not for some lucky breaks for the Saints, probably win by more than that). The Saints were an 11-5 team in the regular season, with a HOF QB, a revived running game, and a suddenly-stout D, and we beat them by 8. I know it doesn't 'feel' as good as it could have, but let's not lose sight of the most important numbers. That's WITH a fumble-that-should-have-been, the ridiculous bounce to Meachem, and the two dropped interceptions. Those sorts of fluky plays don't usually repeat themselves.

Lastly, there were some frustrating penalties, but they were FAR fewer than the Hawks have drawn in the past. I'll take that.

Long story short... even without Wilson playing anything near his best game, Lynch and the defense combined to post a pretty convincing win over a really good team. We're in the NFCCG AT HOME. Enjoy it, guys. This doesn't happen often. We have a great, mentally tough, well-coached team, and we are one game away from the Super Bowl.

Go Hawks.

Long post yes, but spot on.
 

chris98251

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 27, 2007
Messages
39,616
Reaction score
1,624
Location
Roy Wa.
I posted this in the game day but it fits here.

The issue I think is trust, Bevell or Pete do not trust Wilson and the offense to win, they trust the defense to win and just want the offense not to lose a game, rarely do we have crossing routes that a read thats wrong could cause a miss and an interception, those are the passes that hit receivers in stride. W throw up and out passes that are jump balls on the edge of the sidelines where our guys can screen out and catch or miss it safely with a lesser chance of a pick. I also think it's why we don't see the TE more involved since seam routes and crossing routes are a TE's bread and butter.

I agree we need a more opened up offense and bigger personality type to leverage Pete. Wilson has shown he can make the throws if he is allowed to play, I think he is being used as more of a manager and less a Point Gaurd or a playing to win type QB.

Just as our Kick off teams were using Turbin, playing it so safe you end up handicapping yourself.
 

MontanaHawk05

Well-known member
Joined
May 1, 2009
Messages
17,894
Reaction score
409
jkitsune":1eh5mueb said:
One of my biggest complaints about Bevell has historically been his obsession with running the football and the lack of a short passing game.

That's odd, because everyone else's complaints about Bevell revolve around him not running enough.

A thought about predictability on first and second down: everyone agrees that run-run-pass is undesirable, but I think everyone would also agree that running the ball should usually happen on first down, right? Well, if you want to run on first down but avoid run-run-pass, that would force you to pass on second down...which would be predictable. So if you want to be unpredictable, you're either going to have to mix up some run-run-passes in there (which we don't do all that much, really, though every instance gets immediately jumped on) OR pass on first down, which would upset a number of other people. There's really only so many ways to mix up two options on two downs.
 

rideaducati

New member
Joined
Jul 25, 2012
Messages
5,414
Reaction score
0
MontanaHawk05":zq6j9g07 said:
jkitsune":zq6j9g07 said:
One of my biggest complaints about Bevell has historically been his obsession with running the football and the lack of a short passing game.

That's odd, because everyone else's complaints about Bevell revolve around him not running enough.

A thought about predictability on first and second down: everyone agrees that run-run-pass is undesirable, but I think everyone would also agree that running the ball should usually happen on first down, right? Well, if you want to run on first down but avoid run-run-pass, that would force you to pass on second down...which would be predictable. So if you want to be unpredictable, you're either going to have to mix up some run-run-passes in there (which we don't do all that much, really, though every instance gets immediately jumped on) OR pass on first down, which would upset a number of other people. There's really only so many ways to mix up two options on two downs.

It's not so much the sequence of the runs or passes, it's where they happen to be on the field. For instance, Bevell calls pass plays in the red zone on first and second downs and then runs on third for no gain and the Seahawks kick a field goal. It's maddening because the Seahawks usually move right down the field by running the ball at will. It's either that or Russell is throwing the ball and seems to be in a rhythm and then they run Turbin three times in a row and the drive stalls at midfield.

Although the play calling is maddening at times, I think Russell is becoming more and more at fault for lack of production in the pass game. He is holding the ball too long and rarely if ever steps up into a good pocket. He isn't hitting his first open receiver and seems to be looking for something better all the time. Russell is beginning to remind me of Tarvaris and that is not a good thing.
 
Top