Pete Carroll vs. Mike Holmgren

Would Pete become Seattle's most successful coach if he take this team to the Super Bowl? It would be faster than Mike Holmgren. It took him 7 years to at least make it to the Conference Game. Pete did it in 4.

I would say Pete has already surpassed ol' Holmy. Imo.

How has Carroll surpassed a coach that took us to the Super Bowl?

I think so. He's already on the verge of being our best coach. First time the Hawks have had back to back seasons with 10 or more wins. I honestly don't see (barring an epic total team collapse from the owners on down) how he doesn't become (if he isn't already) the best coach in Seahawks history.

Vetamur":3dzc7jyr said:

How has Carroll surpassed a coach that took us to the Super Bowl?

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I guess I'll ask this question again next week.

korboko":287gshsr said:

Would Pete become Seattle's most successful coach if he take this team to the Super Bowl? It would be faster than Mike Holmgren. It took him 7 years to at least make it to the Conference Game. Pete did it in 4.

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How would he not?

Vetamur":6np6cu1h said:

How has Carroll surpassed a coach that took us to the Super Bowl?

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By doing what Holmgren never did with Seattle - back to back seasons of 10 or more regular season victories. Completely re-tooling the team in 4 years. On the verge of a Super-Bowl, whereas the Holmgren led teams didn't even win a playoff game until the 2005 super bowl run (7 years). By molding the system to his players strengths rather than having the ego of finding "his guys" for "his system" and trying to make everyone fit to "the system."

Both coaches went to the playoffs in year one. It was not until year 5 for Holmgren to return, Pete returned to the playoffs in year 3

It was not until year 7 when Holmgren won his first playoff game with the Hawks. Pete did it in years one and three and four.

In ten years of coaching the Seahawks, Holmren won 4 playoff games. Pete can tie that mark in year four

Holmgren has never won a road playoff game as a Seahawk head coach. Pete has

In ten years Holmgren has never had a top ten defense (yards). Pete has done that 3 times already

Holmgren took over a team with much more talent (Jones, Brown, Kennedy, Galloway, Strong, Springs) to name a few

EXCEPT for Petes first year, Pete has played in a much stronger division then Holmgren. A lot of Holmgren success came because his team played in the weakest division in football.


I could go on

MissoulaHawkFan":uvdm3aqk said:

Vetamur":uvdm3aqk said:

How has Carroll surpassed a coach that took us to the Super Bowl?

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By doing what Holmgren never did with Seattle - back to back seasons of 10 or more regular season victories. Completely re-tooling the team in 4 years. On the verge of a Super-Bowl, whereas the Holmgren led teams didn't even win a playoff game until the 2005 super bowl run (7 years). By molding the system to his players strengths rather than having the ego of finding "his guys" for "his system" and trying to make everyone fit to "the system."

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I value a Super Bowl over all of that and its not close. If Carroll gets us to the Super Bowl, then I will agree. You can re tool us quick..get me 10+ wins 10 years in a row..but if we werent actually in the Super Bowl..Id still consider the person who got us to the big dance the bigger deal.

Fair enough vet. I'd argue that Pete has done in 4 years is better than what Holmgren did in 7...I will, however, concede that if Pete never gets the Hawks TO a Superb Owl, then it will be a VERY disappointing underachievement. Besides that, I think Pete has done everything better than Holmy did across the board (minus GETTING to the super bowl). Remember that, I guess, Holmy got the Hawks there ONCE and didn't win it. I agree making the dance is an excellent achievement, but I'm greedy. I wanna win it, and leave no doubt.

I'm with Vetamur, lets have this conversation if again if we win tomorrow. Until Pete takes us to the big show, Holmgren will carry the torch.

I think warden nailed it pretty well. I'd also add that with an EXTREMELY young team built entirely during his tenure, with low draft picks playing like pro bowlers, Pete's teams haven't in the last 2 years (and maybe not even in year 1 I just can't recall) had the total drop-your-jock games out of nowhere. I used to cringe at opening games because it felt like we liked to do it there after getting excited all off season.

But Holmgren did get us to the big game, and his stamp was on that team, so it's difficult to officially unseat him until Pete matches that accomplishment, just on priniciple.

I think everyone measures success differently. but we can summarize a few of the primary reasons.
- super bowl win trumps all.
- Winning seasons every year.
- Popularity/fan base/energy of the city

I fall into the category of super bowl trumps all mostly because we don't have a championship yet. However I would be foolish to admit that not at any point in the Holmgren era did I ever feel and or see this much hype, publicity, or recognition by EVERYONE everywhere than I do now.... which for that being a lifelong seahawks fan I must admit Is awesome in of itself....

I would be curious to see how others rate success. (After one championship) I will resend to just having a winning season every year.

Why does losing the Super Bowl trump what Pete has done so far? Sure, its technically farther in the playoffs, but its still just another season of not winning a championship. I agree with the points warden made.

Erebus":18e58v22 said:

Why does losing the Super Bowl trump what Pete has done so far? Sure, its technically farther in the playoffs, but its still just another season of not winning a championship. I agree with the points warden made.

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I guess one can argue if Pete loses the game tomorrow... one can say Mike won his NFCCG and Pete didn't.

Pete Carroll is already the Best seahawks coach of all time in my opinion. He used the scorched earth approach and built this team from the ground up and i would take this team against any in seahawks history.

Has everyone already forgotten the state of the franchise when Holmgren arrived? It was a franchise mired in mediocrity. He led the team to five straight playoff appearances and the first Super Bowl appearance in franchise history. Before Holmgren came along Seahawks missed the playoff ten straight seasons.

Carroll has two winning seasons out of four. This is his third playoff appearance including the fluke 7-9 appearance in 2010. He has put together great back to back regular season records. I think he's a ways off from surpassing Holmgren however.

Seattle Seahawks Franchise Encyclopedia

This question will be answered tomorrow night after the game.

raisethe3":2i7ooc2l said:

This question will be answered tomorrow night after the game.

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How is that? Holmgren took the team to the Super Bowl. What does winning tomorrow night answer the question?