Keys to the Game: That they don't talk about.

I'm really having a hard time figuring out how to decide a score for this game. I bought NFL Game rewind so decided to actually use it for something other than watching Seahawks highlights.

And as I start watching these games, I'm expecting Payton is throwing bombs downfield. But what I saw was his whole world revolves around 5 yard dump offs with massive gains. And a lot of them are going to Moreno. So I go and look at his stats.

He ran for 1038 yards, but caught 74 passes for 548 yards (9.1 average). Ok so it starts making a lot more sense. Denver lines up in a lot of three receiver sets. It would appear that he uses the weak side receivers to pull the corners up the field (if they get beat he throws to them), the slot receivers for the most part run a cross OR they run up and outs or up routes to pull the outside linebacker.

The creates a lot of space. And Moreno has been eating up yards on these plays. They are all 5 yard dunks with the defenders 5+ yards cushioned following receivers running routes. This gave him enough of a cushion to make some big plays via YAC.

Go to look at Denver's yards after the catch. #1 in the NFL. It would appear, especially against tight downfield coverage he just tears it up underneath. A lot of these 5 yard pass plays were going for 10, 15 and 20 yards.

here's another interesting stat. When Moreno averaged 4.7 yards a game, they lost the games. During these losses he would average 5.7 yards per reception.

On the opposite end in their wins Moreno would rush for 4.2 average per play. But his receiving was 9.7 yards a catch. 10 YARDS A CATCH? Almost all of these start out as 5 yard underneath dunks either to the left (delayed) or to the middle (delayed). I see why they line up continuously in 3/4 receiver sets.

It's almost like a ballet, ball snap, Moreno chips (1 second delay) then runs middle. Or he runs left to catch the quick out.

I'm not worried about Moreno rushing. I'm much more concerned that Manning would attempt to pull our man protection out and kill us with these underneath passing to Moreno. (Moreno is not the only one he does this with, he's also doing this with D. Thomas on occasion).

Oh when you decided to protect close or go zone to avoid this, is when he hits you in the middle.

I have full trust in our D, and I'm positive they know this and much more. I'm just curious how this all plays out.

Interesting....but I think we have better than average LBs to counter that.

It's not about how good the LB's are. It's about how situational aware they are. Which these guys are. They are well studied. But when you get pulled off because they overload a side and start running go's... what I was seeing was about 15 to 20 yards of space for Knowshon to run in. Think that one unplanned Russell pass to Beast, where he through it across his body. Just wide open spaces.

This is how Manning is burring good secondary's. And I'm expecting to see it this game.

Our linebackers are fast, but the scheme gets them out of position. Just interesting. Like I said, I'm curious how that turns out.

Might we see a LB spy him much like teams do to Russ?

Shock2k":1yg3v6jg said:

It's not about how good the LB's are. It's about how situational aware they are. Which these guys are. They are well studied. But when you get pulled off because they overload a side and start running go's... what I was seeing was about 15 to 20 yards of space for Knowshon to run in. Think that one unplanned Russell pass to Beast, where he through it across his body. Just wide open spaces.

This is how Manning is burring good secondary's. And I'm expecting to see it this game.

Our linebackers are fast, but the scheme gets them out of position. Just interesting. Like I said, I'm curious how that turns out.

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Most team need to play safeties as "help" for the corners and that requires linebackers to move to a stacked side. I think you will see our linebackers not being controlled by that because Seattle can leave both CB's on an island and Kam can cover also. If Seattle reads it right then Manning will get is 5 yd dump off, but there will not be yards after catch that the Broncos usually see.

The Seahawk defense, primarily the passing defense is #1 by far in the league. I think the defense has done well to adjust and shut down opponents passing. The Seahawks have faced Brees and did well in stopping/limiting him. Brees is very close to Manning as a passer. The thing about the Bronco receivers is they lack speed. They have size but that's it. The type of WRs that have caused the Seahawks problems are small, speedy types (see TY Hilton). I don't believe Peyton has faced this type of secondary and this speed for defense. It will be interesting how the game turns out. If they can keep Peyton and the Broncos out of the endzone, the chances of a Seahawk win are great. They have been able to keep a high powered Saints offense from scoring so I don't see why they couldn't do that to the Broncos.

The only matchup I'm REALLY worried about is Manning keeping our 1st down personnel on the field with no huddle. This means Irvin can't be taken off the field on 2nd and 3rd and long and Avril brought on.

This means we're going to be in the nickel with Irvin A LOT. We saw how he disappeared in the Atlanta game when we needed him most, so I hope Pete and Quinn have a plan for this........cause you know Denver's going to try and exploit our nickel w/ Irvin.

hawkfan68":ut72bnjg said:

If they can keep Peyton and the Broncos out of the endzone, the chances of a Seahawk win are great. They have been able to keep a high powered Saints offense from scoring so I don't see why they couldn't do that to the Broncos.

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I know what you're saying here, but I think The Donks are gonna get theirs. Limiting their scores to FG's as opposed to TD's will help of course. As much as we don't want to get into a shoot-out I think we'll open things up a bit. TOP is an important factor here, so theres got to be a balance as the game goes on. If the Donks start putting up to many points, and our run game isn't controlling the clock as it should then Pete will start turning more and more to a open offense. If our defense can't control Manning then our only real option is to fight it with a more aggressive style air game. If the Donks start putting up points I hope Pete doesn't wait to long to show his hand. Hell, for all I know Pete might start airing it out from the start.....to wait until we are forced into a 1 dimensional attack is what the Donks have been doing to teams all year long.
Boy, I should wait until I've had more coffee before posting.

I have been talking about Bruce Irvin all week with situations like this in mind. In my mind this needs to be a statement game for him. Practically every one of our defenders have had solid to outstanding games lately. Bruce has somehow gotten lost in the noise. And this situation you described might be the ideal situation for him to shine. He does that, and I think we can make Peyton a miserable dude!

Regarding Irvin, I'd like to see him used as a pass rusher in this game. He's got speed and can get to Manning. He can be a disruptor with that. Maybe disguise his rushes more but an Clemons, Avril, Bennett, and Irvin rush would be unstoppable. Rotating them would also keep them fresh. Every time I look at this my concerns go away more and more. The only question I have now is do the Broncos have something to counter the speed the Seahawks can throw at them? This team is loaded with speed and they have speedy depth too. Throw sheer speed at them. Manning will have to throw short and being the sure tackling team the Seahawks are, they will limit the yards. It plays into the Seahawk strengths.

They had Drew Brees on NFLN yesterday and was asked what specifically about the Seahawk defense stands out...his reply was that they were fast and sure tacklers. That made it tough to get those YACs because of their tackling ability.

Key for me is our interior O-Line. If they are road grating we will run on them. Unger hasn't been his regular self, and he needs to find a way to get it done so the Beast can do his thing.

hawkfan68":1mbs1i05 said:

Regarding Irvin, I'd like to see him used as a pass rusher in this game. He's got speed and can get to Manning. He can be a disruptor with that. Maybe disguise his rushes more but an Clemons, Avril, Bennett, and Irvin rush would be unstoppable. Rotating them would also keep them fresh. Every time I look at this my concerns go away more and more. The only question I have now is do the Broncos have something to counter the speed the Seahawks can throw at them? This team is loaded with speed and they have speedy depth too. Throw sheer speed at them. Manning will have to throw short and being the sure tackling team the Seahawks are, they will limit the yards. It plays into the Seahawk strengths.

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The SB is not the time IMO to do stuff you didn't regularly do during the season and playoffs.

I want Avril rushing Manning on 2nd and 3rd downs, not Irvin. Nothing against Bruce, but he's nowhere near the pass rusher at this point in his career as Avril is.

Sgt. Largent":h7zcvr1g said:

hawkfan68":h7zcvr1g said:

Regarding Irvin, I'd like to see him used as a pass rusher in this game. He's got speed and can get to Manning. He can be a disruptor with that. Maybe disguise his rushes more but an Clemons, Avril, Bennett, and Irvin rush would be unstoppable. Rotating them would also keep them fresh. Every time I look at this my concerns go away more and more. The only question I have now is do the Broncos have something to counter the speed the Seahawks can throw at them? This team is loaded with speed and they have speedy depth too. Throw sheer speed at them. Manning will have to throw short and being the sure tackling team the Seahawks are, they will limit the yards. It plays into the Seahawk strengths.

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The SB is not the time IMO to do stuff you didn't regularly do during the season and playoffs.

I want Avril rushing Manning on 2nd and 3rd downs, not Irvin. Nothing against Bruce, but he's nowhere near the pass rusher at this point in his career as Avril is.

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Good point Sgt. Still I'm confident in the defense. I don't believe Irvin will be exploited. While he may not have been a star, he hasn't been a weakness either. He hasn't cost the Seahawks a game. I think they will be fine.

The biggest problem all defenses have with the denver's offense is that they can attack you in almost anyway possible (and KM is a big part of that) and you cant defend all of them. Thus you have to pick your poison. Add manning who will almost call the best play against what the defense presents and you are royally screwed. This is why analysts suggest you try to disguise your coverage else you will get picked apart. All our talent guys are so versatile that they can be moved around and used in different roles. One of the flaws in his colts teams was that they couldnt move personnel around much - it was always Wayne on the left and Marvin on the right, which made the defnese's life a bit easier. Those colts offense relied more on execution than game planning and play calling. Our current offense has all the pros of the colts offense and more with less of the shortcomings.

Add the no huddle which allows manning to control the tempo of the game and keep the defense form substituting and the defense really has problems. With Seattle's specialized front 4 sets, expect Manning to pass against your run defense and rush against you pass defense, and all done from same 11 personnel. If Manning ever gets the Seahawk NASCAR package on the field, he would just wear them down with the power run to set up the play action.

The best thing for the Seahawk defense is if their offense can sustain long drives to keep our offense off the pitch and out of rhythm. Give manning enough opportunities and he will shred you.

Pete moved him to LB for a reason. He wanted someone with speed to compliment Bobby and KJ. Time for him to do what Pete put him there to do. The other question I have is how will we use Malcolm this game?

Evil_Shenanigans":igtyni4s said:

Pete moved him to LB for a reason. He wanted someone with speed to compliment Bobby and KJ. Time for him to do what Pete put him there to do. The other question I have is how will we use Malcolm this game?

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You're not understanding. Irvin has been a great 1st down LB this year, but he's taken out in 2nd/3rd and long passing situations so Avril can come in and rush the passer.

If Manning goes up tempo and forces us to keep our personnel on the field for extended periods, then that means Irvin is rushing the passer and/or dropping into coverage more............and I don't like that. I want Avril on the field cause he's been a beast in rushing situations this year.

hawkfan68":3e102ice said:

The Seahawk defense, primarily the passing defense is #1 by far in the league. I think the defense has done well to adjust and shut down opponents passing. The Seahawks have faced Brees and did well in stopping/limiting him. Brees is very close to Manning as a passer. The thing about the Bronco receivers is they lack speed. They have size but that's it. The type of WRs that have caused the Seahawks problems are small, speedy types (see TY Hilton). I don't believe Peyton has faced this type of secondary and this speed for defense. It will be interesting how the game turns out. If they can keep Peyton and the Broncos out of the endzone, the chances of a Seahawk win are great. They have been able to keep a high powered Saints offense from scoring so I don't see why they couldn't do that to the Broncos.

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That's an interesting point. From my perspective this is a Saints weakness, they don't have a featured back. I do believe in "rhythm" and good run teams have featured backs. Well balanced teams have a running game.

I agree with the speed and discipline of both our secondary and linebackers. We haven't faced this type of attack before though. At least I can't think of a game where they exploited the short passing game by running our CB's out of the area.

Bottom line and I think the common theme is, our Linebacker play is going to be incredible important. (yes it's all important, but let's call it a key matchup)

kjreid":2hu3xvkz said:

Shock2k":2hu3xvkz said:

It's not about how good the LB's are. It's about how situational aware they are. Which these guys are. They are well studied. But when you get pulled off because they overload a side and start running go's... what I was seeing was about 15 to 20 yards of space for Knowshon to run in. Think that one unplanned Russell pass to Beast, where he through it across his body. Just wide open spaces.

This is how Manning is burring good secondary's. And I'm expecting to see it this game.

Our linebackers are fast, but the scheme gets them out of position. Just interesting. Like I said, I'm curious how that turns out.

Click to expand...

Most team need to play safeties as "help" for the corners and that requires linebackers to move to a stacked side. I think you will see our linebackers not being controlled by that because Seattle can leave both CB's on an island and Kam can cover also. If Seattle reads it right then Manning will get is 5 yd dump off, but there will not be yards after catch that the Broncos usually see.

Click to expand...

Great point. At the very beginning of the press conferences Carroll emphasized good tackling after the catch. I thought it was an odd thing to say (because would you effective be signaling to a team that you were going to give up some pass plays), those comments make a lot more sense to me.

In year's past, we would have that happen to us quite often as well. Teams would turn quick dump passes into 8-10 yard gains and move down the field. This defense though seems to understand that they all have their part to play and they stay in their lanes and they are always where they are supposed to be. I've noticed a dramatic decrease in yards after the catch from teams playing against us compared to what they do to other teams. I think this is a win for our defense.

I've thought about this too, I wonder if we can just send a LB to hit Moreno at the line of scrimmage as if he is a blocker or somehow obstruct his route leaking out. It's completely legal to knock guys down behind the line of scrimmage as they are designated blockers so I expect some nasty hits if they are attempting to leak under the press.

Welker and Moreno seem to be the "safety valves" for Manning, if they can take the outside WR away and only deal with J. Thomas in zones, we could use M. Smith and Irvin or Wright to cover these jerks underneath.