Is Tom Cable really one of the best?

I hear all the time, on this board and through local media, that Tom Cable is one of the best O line coaches in the NFL. But I just don't understand how this is possible. And before you go all crazy on me and tell me I'm not a Hawks fan and I don't know what I'm talking about, at least hear me out.
Our offense line is by far the teams weakest unit. The O-line is one of the most penalized O-lines in the NFl, (how many drives have you watched stall out because of a false start in the red zone?) Likewise, we were tops in QB pressures allowed this year. And yes we have a good run game, but it is far from consistent, (truly elite O-lines are effective in the run game despite playing against dominant run defenses.) And many of Lynch's positive runs are created by Lynch's ability to break tackles.
Don't tell me Cable has not had talent to work with, he has two young first rounders, one who is pro bowl player, a pro bowl center and a third round guard,( Moffitt is no longer with the team) Cable hand picks his draft picks and a good coach is able to get the most from his players.
I do understand that we had a horrible run of injuries this season, but I'm sorry, the O-line was our weakest unit last year as well. I may be wrong, maybe next year is finally the year it all comes together for this unit, but right now I just don't see proof Cable is one of the best O-line coaches in the NFL. Let me know what you think...hopefully we can have a good discussion.

We only really have one pro-bowl caliber O-lineman in okung and he's had a hard time staying healthy and he's a far cry from Walter Jones.

Unger, I like him but he's a bit over-rated in my opinion. Sure he's good but I dunno if he's multiple pro-bowls good.

Giacomini is an average RT, maybe.

Sweezy has been improving steadily for a guy that was a D-lineman.

Carpenter is too fat.

Mcquistan is a serviceable backup at best

bowie and bailey showed some promise, which is good considering wehre they were taken.

I'd say when they've been healthy, they've been pretty good for the level of talent you're talking about. sure they are probably our weakest position group but I'm more apt to give Cable credit for what he's done with mediocre talent than panning him for not turning journeymen and late round draft picks into an impenetrable wall of all-pros.

We have a pro bowl tackle, and a pro bowl guard. You're right. Terrible coaching.

Hawknballs":3mm0wn9g said:

...they are probably our weakest position group but I'm more apt to give Cable credit for what he's done with mediocre talent than panning him for not turning journeymen and late round draft picks into an impenetrable wall of all-pros.

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Well said. I don't really have the Xs 'n Os type of knowledge to back up a strong opinion, but the line's not exactly stacked with top picks. (Curse you Carp!).

If you do have some Xs 'n Os knowledge, you might be able to understand this article at Field Gulls going into what looks like excruciating detail on the ins and outs of zone blocking. I don't know if Cable's a genius, but it looks like it takes some kind of brains to figure all that crap out. And I've got a damn math degree!

I would say he's done a very good job despite a few imperfections (he's not the best talent evaluator, but he's pretty good at player development). I thought our line played very well in 2011 and 2012, 2013 would have probably been more of the same if not for the injuries. Unger is not over-rated, his abilities in the run game make the engine run, but he was injured all year and played like crap, and as a result the whole line struggled in the run game from the inside out. Some early season issues at FB hurt too. And of course, the injuries at both tackle spots.

McQuistan had a very tough season, and Carpenter is kind of a specialist OL that might be forced into jumbo package duty. Whether it's Bailey or a draft pick, a good move at LG with a healthy Unger could get our line back to run blocking at an elite level with near competent pass pro.

I don't think 2 1st rounders and a 2nd rounder is a lot to work with. Especially considering the rest of the line is late round picks and journeyman pickups from practice squads or the waiver heap.

Throw in the amount of injuries the O-line has sustained over the last 3 years and I'd say Cable has done an above-average job.

No, I don't think he is the best in the NFL or anything, but I do think he has done a good job with what he's had to work with. He has turned a 7th round defensive player into a starting NFL O-lineman. He took Giacomini off the Packers PS and turned him into an average NFL RT. He took Paul McQuistan off the trash heap and made him a serviceable swiss army knife depth player. He made Frank Omiyale look better than he ever was. He coached up Bailey and Bowie, 2 late rounders, and they played some significant games as ROOKIES. Bowie started a freaking playoff game as a rookie and held his own.

He has turned some trash into serviceable pieces and juggled it all around a medical unit when 3/5th of our line was out for significant time.

So yeah, he had 2 first rounders and a 2nd round Center. He was only around to hand pick one of those guys.

So basically he was given the choice of 1 first round lineman in his 3 years here, and outside of Moffit in the 3rd, he hasn't been given an O-lineman before the 7TH ROUND. Think about that. In 3 years he has been given the choice of TWO O-lineman before the 7th round.

Yeah, he's a good coach.

We are continually one of the worst pass defending teams in the league. Our run blocking is really not great either. We have individual players that are so epic (lynch/RW), they can somehow overcome instant pressure. Turn losses into no gains, or miraculously extend for positive gains. Now, this could be on the talent we have on the line, but you would like to see some improvement based on scheme and development. I always hear how cable is an o-line god. . . i haven't seen that.

He also brought Robert Gallery with him. Although it could be argued that was to help implement his scheme.

It was his decision to move Unger to C (remember he had been a guard before). The ONE year he's gotten to use picks on OL, he'd been with the team for what? 4 months? And it was during the whole lockout ordeal.

He basically revived Lynchs career, and he has had to deal with injuries to the OL constantly. Give him a season with a healthy OL, percy to keep teams from stacking 8 in the box, and see what he can produce.

Jesus our starting OL at one point was Mcquistan/Carpenter/Jean-Pierre/Sweezy/Bowie......

thats a journeyman guard at LT, an underwhelming LG, a backup C, a RG playing the position for the 2nd year in his life, and a 7th round rookie from a d2 school at RT.

Yes he botched the draft with carpenter/moffitt, but thats two freakin picks, where was the run game before he showed up?

billio155":zabvmgi9 said:

Our offense line is by far the teams weakest unit.

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The Seahawks have the most complete team and the deepest roster in the NFL. So saying the O-line is the weakest unit means they're still pretty damn good. Seattle had injuries all season and had to start a old slow guard at left tackle and a rookie at right tackle for a good part of the season. So I would say respect what Tom Cable's coaching did for this team and the effect it had on putting the hawks in a position to win the Superbowl.

billio155":bcs32uqx said:

Our offense line is by far the teams weakest unit.

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The Seahawks have the most complete team and the deepest roster in the NFL. So saying the O-line is the weakest unit means they're still pretty damn good. Seattle had injuries all season and had to start a old slow guard at left tackle and a rookie at right tackle for a good part of the season. So I would say respect what Tom Cable's coaching did for this team and the effect it had on putting the hawks in a position to win the Superbowl.

Lynch Mob":1b1gdjq3 said:

billio155":1b1gdjq3 said:

Our offense line is by far the teams weakest unit.

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The Seahawks have the most complete team and the deepest roster in the NFL. So saying the O-line is the weakest unit means they're still pretty damn good. Seattle had injuries all season and had to start a old slow guard at left tackle and a rookie at right tackle for a good part of the season. So I would say respect what Tom Cable's coaching did for this team and the effect it had on putting the hawks in a position to win the Superbowl.

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I'm honestly surprised his name hasn't even been MENTIONED as a HC candidate, or even an OC candidate.

Considering

A: The ridiculous amount of injuries we've dealt with
B: The lack of draft capital invested in the line (2011 aside - although, re-evaluating the draft class 3 years later... there's not much o-line alent is there? Carpenter is probably still best of a bad bunch)
C: When we're actually fully healthy the line performs extremely well
D: We play against three of the toughest defenses in the league 6x a year

We actually do pretty well IMO

SacHawk2.0":3u5u14oh said:

We have a pro bowl tackle, and a pro bowl guard. You're right. Terrible coaching.

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We have a probowl guard? Cable has nothing to do with Okung's success.

With the type of draft capital spent on the offensive line, it should be much better. There are 2 each 1st round picks, 1 each 2nd round pick, 1 each 3rd round pick, that's a lot more than most teams invest in offensive lines yet they still succeed.

San Francisco has turned out a much better Oline, but has invested 3 first round picks in Staley, Iupati, and Anthony Davis. I believe that hamstrings the rest of the team if you ignore the rest of the positions early.

But,it's next to impossible to evaluate Cable's performance because of all the injuries and experimentation. I believe the talent is there, and I think there will be vast improvement in 2014.

Sweezy's ability to squat so low at the LOS still amazes me, McQuistan is pretty good, hence the money he's paid, and Breno was on Green Bay's practice squad for a reason.

bigcc, not sure how you can say "He basically revived Lynchs career." Not sure what you mean there but it sounds like you are saying Marshawn was struggling in the running game until Tom Cable came along. I find that hard to believe since much of Lynch's yards come AFTER contact. Am I misreading that?

ivotuk":3u1a7b1h said:

SacHawk2.0":3u1a7b1h said:

We have a pro bowl tackle, and a pro bowl guard. You're right. Terrible coaching.

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not sure how you can say "He basically revived Lynchs career." Not sure what you mean there but it sounds like you are saying Marshawn was struggling in the running game until Tom Cable came along. I find that hard to believe since much of Lynch's yards come AFTER contact. Am I misreading that?

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Lynch himself credits Cable with that. He said there was a lot he didn't understand about running in the ZBS until Cable coached him up. Can't find the link, but it was Cable's first season..when Marshawn actually talked to the media now and then.

I would like to see an entire new line. Okung is weak in my opinion, and he gets waaaaay too many penalties. Maybe Walter spoiled me with a hold for every pro bowl he earned. His ankles are glass, he costs too much, and he makes mental mistakes when he should be the leader of that line. Give me a revamp.

They won the Superbowl, and put up good numbers in the running game. I'm pretty sure he's damn good.

I don't think we win the SB without him.

I have pretty high regards for Cable. He does so much with less. I don't know who's to blame for such little talent after so much draft capital invested, maybe just bad luck.

I also hate the "it's ok that we looked like shit because we played a good defense" stuff that always pops up. Our defense just shutdown the best offense of all-time. I want to see the offense be able to run over good defenses too. It's all about the trenches baby - on both sides of the ball.

Regarding Unger - I wonder if the guard play he got around him thiis season hurt him as well.

I have high regards for Cable because he coaches and develops players well. To get a DT and late or undrafted talent to buy in and do a serviceable job in zbs is fantastic. I would agree that he may not be the best talent evaluator, but he brought the running game back to Seattle.
The line trusts Cable and despite multiple injuries this year it did the job.