Clemons

Most of the year I assumed he would be a cap casualty after the season, but we haven't heard much since.

He was pretty spectacular in the post-season, and I thought he was dominant in the SB. He may get a draft pick in a trade (like Boldin last year).

Or he may be back.

I'm intrigued how this plays out.

I think his production increase towards the end of the end certainly had to do with his knee getting to full strength. I was ready to write him off next year, but I think he's fully healthy now and should definitely be an option to come back.

I hope he takes a pay cut though, because I don't see him back with his current cap number

Hawkstorian":1clffg7v said:

Most of the year I assumed he would be a cap casualty after the season, but we haven't heard much since.

He was pretty spectacular in the post-season, and I thought he was dominant in the SB. He may get a draft pick in a trade (like Boldin last year).

Or he may be back.

I'm intrigued how this plays out.

Click to expand...

No one's going to trade for him with his cap figure the way it is. He's not worth it.

My guess is the Clemons shoe won't drop until for a while.

1. Is Bennett coming back?
2. Drafted DE's?
2. Free agent DE signings?

So probably won't know until 1, 2 or all three of these things happens.

Kind of a tough call. He's gone from our only pash rush option to one of several, so his salary will obviously be a point of discussion.

He's an original 'legacy' player for the Carroll/Schneider era, so he gets my sentimental vote. But those guys have the job to determine what is right for the team as a whole moving forward. Given their history, I refuse to predict, because I'll probably be wrong anyway.

jlwaters1":1a042g98 said:

Hawkstorian":1a042g98 said:

Most of the year I assumed he would be a cap casualty after the season, but we haven't heard much since.

He was pretty spectacular in the post-season, and I thought he was dominant in the SB. He may get a draft pick in a trade (like Boldin last year).

Or he may be back.

I'm intrigued how this plays out.

Click to expand...

No one's going to trade for him with his cap figure the way it is. He's not worth it.

Click to expand...

Are you nuts? He's easily worth his salary to a team that would trade for him. His salary this coming year is $6million. That's half the price of a DE franchise tag designation. He's easily worth that on the open market. Count in next year's $7.5 million figure and he averages $6.75 million per year. For a guy who has the talent that Clemons has that is a really solid figure.

kidhawk":23pp741r said:

jlwaters1":23pp741r said:

Hawkstorian":23pp741r said:

Most of the year I assumed he would be a cap casualty after the season, but we haven't heard much since.

He was pretty spectacular in the post-season, and I thought he was dominant in the SB. He may get a draft pick in a trade (like Boldin last year).

Or he may be back.

I'm intrigued how this plays out.

Click to expand...

No one's going to trade for him with his cap figure the way it is. He's not worth it.

Click to expand...

Are you nuts? He's easily worth his salary to a team that would trade for him. His salary this coming year is $6million. That's half the price of a DE franchise tag designation. He's easily worth that on the open market. Count in next year's $7.5 million figure and he averages $6.75 million per year. For a guy who has the talent that Clemons has that is a really solid figure.

Click to expand...

His salary is 7.5M, and his cap hit is 9.6M.

Both figures are too big for an aging DE that went from 11.5 sacks to major knee surgery to 4.5 sacks. So no, he's not good trade material unless it's a trade/restructure..........and if that's the case why not just restructure and keep him?

Sgt. Largent":3niobduo said:

His salary is 7.5M, and his cap hit is 9.6M.

Both figures are too big for an aging DE that went from 11.5 sacks to major knee surgery to 4.5 sacks. So no, he's not good trade material unless it's a trade/restructure..........and if that's the case why not just restructure and keep him?

Click to expand...

Dead money doesn't count for the team a person is traded to. Only the current owed salary. $7.5 million is a pretty solid deal for a guy with Clemons' talent and history. His dead money counts against our cap in any trade scenario. This is why, as Hawkstorian pointed out, a trade would be an interesting scenario. There is some trade value because he's not overpaid, even though our cap figure for him is quite high. He could garner a mid round pick along with his current contract. And please stop wit the declining sack stat. EVERYONE who watches film can see that he is still perfectly capable of getting more pressure than the average DE.

kidhawk":omgyitia said:

Sgt. Largent":omgyitia said:

His salary is 7.5M, and his cap hit is 9.6M.

Both figures are too big for an aging DE that went from 11.5 sacks to major knee surgery to 4.5 sacks. So no, he's not good trade material unless it's a trade/restructure..........and if that's the case why not just restructure and keep him?

Click to expand...

Dead money doesn't count for the team a person is traded to. Only the current owed salary. $7.5 million is a pretty solid deal for a guy with Clemons' talent and history. His dead money counts against our cap in any trade scenario. This is why, as Hawkstorian pointed out, a trade would be an interesting scenario. There is some trade value because he's not overpaid, even though our cap figure for him is quite high. He could garner a mid round pick along with his current contract. And please stop wit the declining sack stat. EVERYONE who watches film can see that he is still perfectly capable of getting more pressure than the average DE.

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I agree that sacks aren't the end all be all stat for DE's, but don't be naive sacks do matter.

Not entirely all his fault what with the arrival of Bennett and Avril, but it still diminishes his trade value in a tight cap year. Avril was the biggest DE free agent last year, and only got a two year 6M guaranteed deal, so Clemons sure as hell isn't going to get to keep his 2014 salary.

Pressured passes and tipped passes and forced fumbles often work out better than simple sacks. Its also nice to have a 3 down lineman in an era of rotational linemen. Clemons plays a complete game.

kidhawk":1uozaxir said:

$7.5 million is a pretty solid deal for a guy with Clemons' talent and history. His dead money counts against our cap in any trade scenario. This is why, as Hawkstorian pointed out, a trade would be an interesting scenario.

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How would you feel if Seattle signed a 31 year old DE coming off a 4.5 sack season and still recovering from an ACL tear to a 1 year, $7.5 million contract? Especially when guys like Terrell Suggs, Cliff Avril, and Michael Bennett have all signed below that average in the past calendar year?

I imagine such a signing would leave people scratching their heads. Now imagine trading draft picks for said player on that deal. I would be surprised if Clemons has any trade value. I think the reason he is still on the roster is because the FO hasn't gotten around to him yet. Rice had his turn, now they are looking at Bryant. Eventually they will approach Clemons about a restructure and explore trades (due diligence), he just hasn't had his turn yet, most likely. As other have pointed out, Seattle might choose to wait until they see how free agency pans out (with regards to Bennett, McDonald, possibly Jared Allen, etc).

When does the F.A. period begin?

Clemons was another cog in this grinding wheel. the roster will not be intact from the SB winner, but regardless of that, Clem was a "silent" contributor. Obviously his contract needs to be addressed.

kearly":2u28xtsx said:

kidhawk":2u28xtsx said:

$7.5 million is a pretty solid deal for a guy with Clemons' talent and history. His dead money counts against our cap in any trade scenario. This is why, as Hawkstorian pointed out, a trade would be an interesting scenario.

Click to expand...

How would you feel if Seattle signed a 31 year old DE coming off a 4.5 sack season and still recovering from an ACL tear to a 1 year, $7.5 million contract? Especially when guys like Terrell Suggs, Cliff Avril, and Michael Bennett have all signed below that average in the past calendar year?

I imagine such a signing would leave people scratching their heads. Now imagine trading draft picks for said player on that deal. I would be surprised if Clemons has any trade value. I think the reason he is still on the roster is because the FO hasn't gotten around to him yet. Rice had his turn, now they are looking at Bryant. Eventually they will approach Clemons about a restructure and explore trades (due diligence), he just hasn't had his turn yet, most likely. As other have pointed out, Seattle might choose to wait until they see how free agency pans out (with regards to Bennett, McDonald, possibly Jared Allen, etc).

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Having watched Clemons play, I wouldn't mind paying him that salary one bit. The reason he's expendable here is because we have multiple players who can get to the quarterback and you can't pay them all top dollar. Bennett is looking to get $10 million. Avril is on the last year of his deal (as is Clemons) and is making $7 million. If that is his market, then Clemons is well worth $7.5 million. I would add that Avril is probably worth closer to $9 million to be honest, but he wanted to be here and signed a deal to get a ring. It turned out to be a wise decision on his part. I wouldn't trade much for Clemons, but there are a lot of teams out there that are in need of a pass rusher who have the cap space who may be willing to part with a mid to late rounder for him. Just because we are pressed against the cap doesn't mean all teams are. Clemons is still a viable candidate to do some serious damage and would get a contract fairly close to what he's making now on the open market.

kidhawk":3jct11q9 said:

jlwaters1":3jct11q9 said:

Hawkstorian":3jct11q9 said:

Most of the year I assumed he would be a cap casualty after the season, but we haven't heard much since.

He was pretty spectacular in the post-season, and I thought he was dominant in the SB. He may get a draft pick in a trade (like Boldin last year).

Or he may be back.

I'm intrigued how this plays out.

Click to expand...

No one's going to trade for him with his cap figure the way it is. He's not worth it.

Click to expand...

Are you nuts? He's easily worth his salary to a team that would trade for him. His salary this coming year is $6million. That's half the price of a DE franchise tag designation. He's easily worth that on the open market. Count in next year's $7.5 million figure and he averages $6.75 million per year. For a guy who has the talent that Clemons has that is a really solid figure.

Click to expand...

No one would touch that, even with a conditional 7th round pick. Perhaps you should go back and research past compensation for trades and the value of draft picks (cheap 4 year contracts in the new CBA).

kearly":2bta9ldv said:

kidhawk":2bta9ldv said:

$7.5 million is a pretty solid deal for a guy with Clemons' talent and history. His dead money counts against our cap in any trade scenario. This is why, as Hawkstorian pointed out, a trade would be an interesting scenario.

Click to expand...

How would you feel if Seattle signed a 31 year old DE coming off a 4.5 sack season and still recovering from an ACL tear to a 1 year, $7.5 million contract? Especially when guys like Terrell Suggs, Cliff Avril, and Michael Bennett have all signed below that average in the past calendar year?

I imagine such a signing would leave people scratching their heads. Now imagine trading draft picks for said player on that deal. I would be surprised if Clemons has any trade value. I think the reason he is still on the roster is because the FO hasn't gotten around to him yet. Rice had his turn, now they are looking at Bryant. Eventually they will approach Clemons about a restructure and explore trades (due diligence), he just hasn't had his turn yet, most likely. As other have pointed out, Seattle might choose to wait until they see how free agency pans out (with regards to Bennett, McDonald, possibly Jared Allen, etc).

Click to expand...

There are no "turns", all of these moves happen concurrently. These moves have been strategized and planned for months, there isn't much decision here, just execution and negotiation.

jblaze":1v83a09r said:

kidhawk":1v83a09r said:

jlwaters1":1v83a09r said:

Hawkstorian":1v83a09r said:

Most of the year I assumed he would be a cap casualty after the season, but we haven't heard much since.

He was pretty spectacular in the post-season, and I thought he was dominant in the SB. He may get a draft pick in a trade (like Boldin last year).

Or he may be back.

I'm intrigued how this plays out.

Click to expand...

No one's going to trade for him with his cap figure the way it is. He's not worth it.

Click to expand...

Are you nuts? He's easily worth his salary to a team that would trade for him. His salary this coming year is $6million. That's half the price of a DE franchise tag designation. He's easily worth that on the open market. Count in next year's $7.5 million figure and he averages $6.75 million per year. For a guy who has the talent that Clemons has that is a really solid figure.

Click to expand...

No one would touch that, even with a conditional 7th round pick. Perhaps you should go back and research past compensation for trades and the value of draft picks (cheap 4 year contracts in the new CBA).

Click to expand...

People said nobody would take Flynn and nobody would take TJack and there are more examples of players who "nobody would trade for" who we traded away for draft picks. The fact is, Clemons is far better on the field than many like to give him credit for. Did his stats decrease with the additions to our Dline this year? Yes they did. Did his talent or ability to pressure the quarterback decrease? No they did not. People here and I'd guess on most fan boards, tend to over or under value players depending on what they WANT to see happen. Those who want Clemons to go or feel he's not worth the money will never believe he's worth anything to anyone else. Personally I would love to see him stay and restructure his deal a little bit. He's got a few more high quality years left in him, and he definitely played worthy of a $7.5 million contract whether people want to believe it or not.

Now, I wouldn't keep him at the expense of Avril or Bennett because both are younger and have a better shelf life, but that doesn't mean that another team without that edge pressure wouldn't want to pay him to shore up that position for a year or two.

Your QB analogy is not appropriate, they're QB's, anyone will take a chance if they don't have one because they're disproportionately valuable to their team.

Players are worth what people will pay for them and no one would trade anything for Clemons at this point. The market sets the terms, not your or my impression.

If we could acquire a pick for him, we would. However, there's no way in hell that will happen and that tells you all you need to know. Regardless of your perceived view of his value or production, other teams won't pay that much and neither should we.

jblaze":1pzlwvny said:

Your QB analogy is not appropriate, they're QB's, anyone will take a chance if they don't have one because they're disproportionately valuable to their team.

Players are worth what people will pay for them and no one would trade anything for Clemons at this point. The market sets the terms, not your or my impression.

If we could acquire a pick for him, we would. However, there's no way in hell that will happen and that tells you all you need to know. Regardless of your perceived view of his value or production, other teams won't pay that much and neither should we.

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Jackson was traded to Buffalo to likely be a back up, not even a starter and ended up being a 3rd string guy that year and most people knew that he was about to be released anyway. Jackson was probably one of the most expensive third string qb's in the league that year (If not the most expensive third stringer that year).

DE is a highly valued position when it comes to rushing the passer. That is what Clemons does best. We are spoiled with loads of that talent on our roster. We haven't always been so lucky, and many teams aren't so blessed today. Also, there are teams with loads of cap space and for those teams the $7.5 million figure is a drop in the bucket for a short term deal to shore up such an important position.

I hear ya and I like Clemons, but it's just not worth it. Wait and see. He'll get cut and resign somewhere else for like 3-4m because that's more in line with what a declining DE makes at 32 years old. Hell, he'll be lucky to get that, probably more like 2-3m avg for 2 years. That's just how it goes regardless of whether we like it or not.

You might want to contact Clemons and see if he needs an agent, you sound like you'd be perfect for him!

You may have to correct me if I'm wrong on the procedure, but wouldn't other teams have the opportunity to negotiate with Clemons if Seattle cuts him, even if the plan is to try to restructure his contract?

Other teams know Seattle is against the cap and Clemons has long been thought to be a casualty. So, why trade a pick, when you could just sign him after Seattle cuts him?