BEST thing about Bennett's deal, could be Avril's future.

If contract terms are correct and I'm understanding of it Bennett will make:

Yr 1: 10 mil
Yr 2: 6 mil
Yr 3: 5 mil
Yr 4: 7.5 mil

These terms would allow some of that cap space to shift into re-signing Avril after this season.

Bennett and Avril together for 4 more years could become one of the most productively dominant D-line duos in the NFL the next couple of years. Considering the success they had this season despite both being free agents coming in to a new system coached by a first year DC. With Avril being shelved throughout OTAs, TC, PS until the 2nd game of the season through various injuries.

Mods: I didn't know if I should have placed this in a Bennett thread but I feel this was more Avril or both of them together than rather Bennett himself.

I love me some Avril, but if we extend ANYBODY that isn't an unrestricted free agent right now, I hope it's Earl or Sherman.

Avril counts over $9million against the cap this year. I think we convert that to 4-5 years, lower the cap hit this year and stay in a good cap situation down the road.

RolandDeschain":2rqcwpwn said:

I love me some Avril, but if we extend ANYBODY that isn't an unrestricted free agent right now, I hope it's Earl or Sherman.

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I would agree here to focus on the slightly bigger pieces. Avril is about #5 on guys that need to be extended on this team at this point in time. I think he will have a situation much like Bennett's next year as he will be basically 29 when abotu to enter free agency for his final major NFL contract and we let him test free agency.

At the expense of nearly red shirting our young DE's all the way through their rookie contracts? Eventually someone will have to stand up among them and stop the carousel of $7m+ Free Agents.

Lady Talon":1idey1av said:

At the expense of nearly red shirting our young DE's all the way through their rookie contracts? Eventually someone will have to stand up among them and stop the carousel of $7m+ Free Agents.

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We have young DEs who project to be as good as Avril?

Besides rookies and young players fill less impactful positions - All LB, guards, 5-tech DE, 3-tech DT, 2nd CB (in our system anyway).

Our starting LEO is a big money guy anyway you slice it. To get a young player to perform to the level we need him to is difficult to say the least.

In today's NFL pass rush is king.

What's difficult about Avril's position? BI got 8 sacks in less snaps in the same position in 2012, and was on the bubble of being a bust.

Lady Talon":1w4y6pwv said:

What's difficult about Avril's position? BI got 8 sacks in less snaps in the same position in 2012, and was on the bubble of being a bust.

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Sack numbers alone do not offer a complete picture of player's performance. Irvin was poor against the run in 2012, but moving to a new position and only playing DE in NASCAR packages helped him considerably. Being poor against the run is Avril's biggest weakness as well, although he's not as bad, and makes up for it by being a demon at stripping the QB of the ball.

Which you can chalk up to Avril having 6 years of NFL experience in 2013, while Irvin was a rookie in 2012. Irvin had less credible pass rushers to compliment him, especially in the middle of the line, allowing QBs to step up into the pocket to evade him. Yet he logged 8 sacks in 434 defensive snaps. Avril beat him by .5 sacks in 551 snaps.

I see no reason BI should hang his head lol. Avril has always played on DLs featuring multiple high calibre linemen around him, and it's always lent a hand with his stats, and downplayed his run defense deficiencies to a greater degree.

It worked, it got us a SB. But I would like to see how Irvin could do at DE again. I think he was pretty good there. He sucked at run stopping, but he could put pressure. If our offense can get untracked and we can put teams behind us, he'd b a monster at DE.

Lady Talon":2boybnu8 said:

What's difficult about Avril's position? BI got 8 sacks in less snaps in the same position in 2012, and was on the bubble of being a bust.

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Do you think our secondary gets all those picks and looks as good as it does without Avril's ability to pressure the QB?

Lady Talon":c44g42kq said:

Which you can chalk up to Avril having 6 years of NFL experience in 2013, while Irvin was a rookie in 2012. Irvin had less credible pass rushers to compliment him, especially in the middle of the line, allowing QBs to step up into the pocket to evade him. Yet he logged 8 sacks in 434 defensive snaps. Avril beat him by .5 sacks in 551 snaps.

I see no reason BI should hang his head lol. Avril has always played on DLs featuring multiple high calibre linemen around him, and it's always lent a hand with his stats, and downplayed his run defense deficiencies to a greater degree.

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You do realize Avril is only a year older than Irvin right? So it isn't exactly going with the youth movement with BI.

Although, you are right and I don't doubt we pick up at least one LEO every draft for all time and develop them in house. because the position is so important.

That being said, pure edge rushers are hard to find and first round draft picks when they come up. However, the good news is that they also often don't fit a normal scheme in the NFL because they aren't hearty enough at the point of attack to be a 3 down 4-3 defensive end (Clem, Avril) or are not athletic enough to be a 3-4 OLB (Schofield) so we can pick them up as odds and ends on the NFL free agency market.

Moreover, Irvin was never and still is not a near bust - not at the price we pay rookies nowadays. Dude led all rookies in sacks his first year and has morphed into a more versatile player in his second year. Not sure what his future is here after his 4 years but it is fine to watch him develop.

Make no mistake about Avril. He helped guys like Bennett/Mebane/and the Mc's be so disruptive.

Another good thing about Bennett's signing is that he said it was the fans, and front office and organization. If there was an F.A. that was pondering going elsewhere, that is huge in telling them how cool it is to be here.

Pure edge rushers are hard to find, however, look at our recent pass rushers . . .

Bennett (UDFA)
Avril (3rd round)
Clemons (UDFA)
McDonald (7th round)
Brock (7th round)
Irvin (1st round)

Now several of those were free agent signings with proven track records, but that doesn't invalidate where they came from.

Largent80":3ms236dp said:

Make no mistake about Avril. He helped guys like Bennett/Mebane/and the Mc's be so disruptive.

Another good thing about Bennett's signing is that he said it was the fans, and front office and organization. If there was an F.A. that was pondering going elsewhere, that is huge in telling them how cool it is to be here.

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Agreed

McGruff":7gc047oe said:

Pure edge rushers are hard to find, however, look at our recent pass rushers . . .

Bennett (UDFA)
Avril (3rd round)
Clemons (UDFA)
McDonald (7th round)
Brock (7th round)
Irvin (1st round)

Now several of those were free agent signings with proven track records, but that doesn't invalidate where they came from.

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This is a selection bias - we still haven't successfully converted a late round pick of our own to be a productive pass rushers from internal development like we have at the corner position.

These are all players who on draft day, no one predicted they would have a ton of success in the NFL (save Irvin or Avril) and they got a foothold in the league as having a greater developed pass rush skill than your average late rounder draft pick. That is very very hard to predict.

But it isn't unexpected that we can use these loose parts because we use tweeners between DEs and OLBs. Our scheme allows for this.

They don't fit a normal scheme in the NFL because they aren't hearty enough at the point of attack to be a 3 down 4-3 defensive end (Clem, Avril) or are not athletic enough to be a 3-4 OLB (Schofield) so we can pick them up as on the NFL free agency market of players.

That being said, it is VERY difficult to predict the success of these players within our scheme on draft day. The first rounder we utilized on the position wasn't even a slam dunk, although productive. What about Ty Powell?

In the end, I think pass rush is a skill that is difficult to draft for, for every Orakpo - there is a Maybin. This is because in addition to tangibles, techniques, use of leverage and tenacity are things that are very important and difficult to measure; almost like a martial art. This makes development a crapshoot but our scheme flexibility and uniqueness allow us to value players other teams throw away who have already demonstrated an NFL level pass rush. I honestly think this approach is easier for the LEO position that going to a youth movement. Moreover, the importance of the position, does not allow for many off days as even the worst QB in the league would carve up a defense when there is no pressure.

Totally agree, tdot, but still found it interesting none the less.

I think we will continue to throw raw quantity at the position . . .

Perhaps we can find the next "Jared Allen" in the 4th round of this year's draft.

What a steal he turned out to be.

I'm inclined to champion the underdog. Looking forward to chapter two of the Benson Mayowa story.

Flashback to last year >>>>>>>>>>>> [urltargetblank]http://www.seahawks.com/news/articles/article-1/Focus-on-Benson-Mayowa/7c703203-c886-4ea4-ba06-999215268b71[/urltargetblank]

TDOTSEAHAWK":4ow3nqbj said:

Lady Talon":4ow3nqbj said:

Which you can chalk up to Avril having 6 years of NFL experience in 2013, while Irvin was a rookie in 2012. Irvin had less credible pass rushers to compliment him, especially in the middle of the line, allowing QBs to step up into the pocket to evade him. Yet he logged 8 sacks in 434 defensive snaps. Avril beat him by .5 sacks in 551 snaps.

I see no reason BI should hang his head lol. Avril has always played on DLs featuring multiple high calibre linemen around him, and it's always lent a hand with his stats, and downplayed his run defense deficiencies to a greater degree.

Click to expand...

You do realize Avril is only a year older than Irvin right? So it isn't exactly going with the youth movement with BI.

Although, you are right and I don't doubt we pick up at least one LEO every draft for all time and develop them in house. because the position is so important.

That being said, pure edge rushers are hard to find and first round draft picks when they come up. However, the good news is that they also often don't fit a normal scheme in the NFL because they aren't hearty enough at the point of attack to be a 3 down 4-3 defensive end (Clem, Avril) or are not athletic enough to be a 3-4 OLB (Schofield) so we can pick them up as odds and ends on the NFL free agency market.

Moreover, Irvin was never and still is not a near bust - not at the price we pay rookies nowadays. Dude led all rookies in sacks his first year and has morphed into a more versatile player in his second year. Not sure what his future is here after his 4 years but it is fine to watch him develop.

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It's not about age as much as contract size and allowing developmental players to establish themselves. If they choose to stick with Avril long term for 500 snaps fine. I don't think it's necessary. Detroit Avril had Suh and Van den Bosch, or in Seattle Clem and Bennett on his DLs. He's a six year vet.

Irvin had Clemons, Jason Jones (a disappointment), and Mebane. As a rookie. His flaws obviously looked more pronounced than Avril's.

Whether the Hawks go with Avril or Mayowa or Irvin is out of my hands but none of them is a Chris Clemons and their success at that position is part of the scheme.