Who do you think starts at SLB?

It's going to be interesting to see how the OLB situation plays out.

IMO, I prefer Malcolm Smith at WLB, Bobby Wagner in the middle, and K.J. Wright at SLB. I would like to see Bruce Irvin rotating between LEO and backup SLB, while he continues to develop his technique in coverage and discipline in keeping containment.

I'm guessing it will remain the same as last year, with Irvin and Smith platooning the SAM LB position. I'm sure "compete" is the word coach Carroll would prefer but both guys are situational players who each shine in different kinds of situations.

kearly":1uirxdjl said:

I'm guessing it will remain the same as last year, with Irvin and Smith platooning the SAM LB position. I'm sure "compete" is the word coach Carroll would prefer but both guys are situational players who each shine in different kinds of situations.

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I think there are a few issues with that. For one, Smith played 1000x better at WLB in those final six games than he did in those first 13 games at SLB. He is not a natural SLB by any means because he lacks the bulk to get off blocks against the run or the length to consistently match up against TEs in the passing game. In six games at his natural WLB position, Smith had 6.8 tackles per game, 7 TFL, four INTs with two returned for TDs. Why would they move Smith back to SLB when they now have three natural SLBs on the roster (Wright, Irvin, and Morgan)?

The second issue is with Wright. At 6'4, 246 lbs, he is a natural SLB who can fight through blocks and cover taller receivers. He took a step back last year after being moved to WLB, where his lack of quickness in space was sometimes exploited.

The third issue is with the change in circumstances at the LEO position. They now need someone to replace Chris Clemons' contributions at LEO. Irvin had eight sacks his rookie season while playing primarily out of the LEO or Spinner position. Even though one of his strengths is as a pass rusher, Irvin had just two sacks last year because he had little opportunity to blitz from SLB.

It seems if the coaches were to play to everyone's strengths this year, Smith would stay at WLB, Wright would be allowed to move back to SLB, and Irvin would get more opportunities as an edge rusher.

Wright is the best option unless things change. He was entirely responsible for eliminating jimmy. He hits like a truck.

Smith: WLB

Wagner: MLB

Wright: SLB

Irvin: LEO

Wright, IMHO. Irvin will get spot duty, I would guess, and play be available to play pretty much anywhere he could rush the passer from in specific situations.

It's all about the flexibility.

Before Clemons was released, the coaches did seem very committed to Irvin at SLB. They have him under contract through 2015, and being a former First Round pick, they have plenty of incentive to make him a starter. They may also have a forward-looking perspective that I am not yet appreciating. Wright and Smith will both be unrestricted free agents at the end of this year. If they lose one or both in free agency, then Irvin could be counted on to start at SLB again.

Surprised to see all the love for Malcolm Smith for that position.
Now if you switched the poll to WLB, it would make sense.
KJ is the guy for SLB. Remember when we held our breath (OK, maybe it was just me) when Pete benched high-draft-pick veteran Aaron Curry and started rookie 4th round pick KJ Wright?
And then KJ seemed to suck a lot less than Curry?

This year, KJ "Underpaid" Wright was one of the guys who overperformed his contract by a HUGE margin, just one of many Seahawks who did, and result = Superb Owl, baby!
Makes me wonder if we'll be able to keep KJ when it's time for him to get paid.

Who said Pete is just a college coach?
Anyone notice that the whole structure of the NFL, with rookie contracts, just changed into a college program? Get guys for four years, maybe redshirt them, and then they "graduate", ala Golden Tate and others... So Pete is the perfect NFL coach, now that it's basically a college program structure.

hawknation2014":2vfcnblh said:

kearly":2vfcnblh said:

I'm guessing it will remain the same as last year, with Irvin and Smith platooning the SAM LB position. I'm sure "compete" is the word coach Carroll would prefer but both guys are situational players who each shine in different kinds of situations.

Click to expand...

I think there are a few issues with that. For one, Smith played 1000x better at WLB in those final six games than he did in those first 13 games at SLB. He is not a natural SLB by any means because he lacks the bulk to get off blocks against the run or the length to consistently match up against TEs in the passing game. In six games at his natural WLB position, Smith had 6.8 tackles per game, 7 TFL, four INTs with two returned for TDs. Why would they move Smith back to SLB when they now have three natural SLBs on the roster (Wright, Irvin, and Morgan)?

The second issue is with Wright. At 6'4, 246 lbs, he is a natural SLB who can fight through blocks and cover taller receivers. He took a step back last year after being moved to WLB, where his lack of quickness in space was sometimes exploited.

The third issue is with the change in circumstances at the LEO position. They now need someone to replace Chris Clemons' contributions at LEO. Irvin had eight sacks his rookie season while playing primarily out of the LEO or Spinner position. Even though one of his strengths is as a pass rusher, Irvin had just two sacks last year because he had little opportunity to blitz from SLB.

It seems if the coaches were to play to everyone's strengths this year, Smith would stay at WLB, Wright would be allowed to move back to SLB, and Irvin would get more opportunities as an edge rusher.

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This is pretty close to spot on. I do think that Irvin will get reps at SLB, but he'll likely also be our right side pass rusher on 3rd downs too when Avril switches to left.

It's funny, in the 2012 draft I had been scouting MLBs and wanted Wagner more than any other LB in the draft. However, I also thought it would be nice if Kendricks fell and we somehow snagged him for WLB playing right next to Wagner like a 3-4 backer in our Under scheme.

We basically have that same exact player in Malcolm Smith. Go figure.

Going back to how those ILBs or MLB and WLB line up, it's really semantics between 4-3 Under and 3-4. One is just predominantly odd alignments (one gap) and the other is even (two gap). Last year, we sometimes deployed a defense that was completely hybrid in that our 1 and 5 where then playing 0 and 4, essentially two gapping while everyone else was one gapping.

I had never seen this before.

Going back to some 3-4 principles now, Lebeau was a guy who said that you want that NT having to require 2 blockers to control him. Thus there was the big NT that could overpower 1 blocker even if just enough to get directly into the QBs face, but be a wall against the run. Lebeau states that since that player is taking up 2 blockers it frees up another defender to get to the ball faster.

What we did was essentially double up on that concept. Red was part of that, but I think we can still do it with McDaniel. And particularly if we get a player like Hageman.

How does this relate to the original thought I had? Well, Avril likes to play on the left side. He's more productive there and that's not a secret. He's not too shabby in a zone either. That said, while I think we'll still be more 4-3 Under than anything else with KJ back at SLB, you'll also see a larger percentage of plays that look like a 3-4 with Irvin and Avril in at the same time. We did it here and there last year and then we also threw in the hybrid 1/2 gap. With Bane, and Bennett and McDaniel back, we have an added luxury to emphasize either 4-3 concepts or 3-4 concepts depending on how we want to attack the offenses respective running and passing games.

And I'm not even going to get into the other nickel & mutant 3rd down stuff....

can't really see us messing with a winning formula

themunn":zahaidyv said:

can't really see us messing with a winning formula

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:lol:

This is something we've already been doing to a small extent. I just read an article about how we were the best in the business at getting to the QB when we blitzed last year. Since Clem and Red are gone and Avril is most effective playing on the left side logic dictates that we'll get just a little more creative from time to time. Obviously we don't want to do too much, but personnel changes will change things as least to a small extent. Don't worry. Some people said the same thing last year when Gus left and Quinn came in talking about getting a little more creative.

And besides, it's well known that Pete will do what's best to maximize the talent that we have. At least expect some changes.

I think the Bruce Irvin experiment at OLB failed, and time to put him back into his wheelhouse of hand in the dirt and get after the QB.

Maxman186":16in5d42 said:

Smith: WLB

Wagner: MLB

Wright: SLB

Irvin: LEO

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It's hard to imagine Irvin playing Leo. He is so weak against the run that he'd be a major liability at that spot, plus he'd be matched up against the LT on passing downs, and I haven't seen him win too many of those. IMO the coaching staff recognized this when they moved him to OLB last season even though he was drafted to eventually take over at Leo and they had a need with Clemmons was coming off major knee surgery.

IMO they'll use Irvin like they did towards the end of last season, rotating at Will with Smith.

themunn":1240dtj3 said:

can't really see us messing with a winning formula

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I don't see it like that. Opponents will be watching film and scheming to beat us. We need to stay ahead of that curve, so tweaks will be a constant. Also, as personnel changes occur, schemes must be adjusted to account for differences in skill sets and talents.

As the old saying goes, "Keep moving, someone might be gaining on you."

What I mean is we're not going to say "oh, we topped in the league in just about every defensive metric last year with Wright at WILL and Irvin/Smith at SAM, so why would we try and move their positions?

Personnel changes and defensive scheme shifts are inevitable to stay ahead of the curve, but personnel shifts only make sense if you bring in a player to take someone elses role (such as Bennett and Avril coming in to justify the move to LB for Irvin, which, with Hill moving on, gave us a good reason to move KJ to WILL), we're not going to suddenly move Kam to LB and ET to corner to "stay ahead of the curve", so why would we move our linebackers about without good reason?

RiverDog":34b3ioj0 said:

Maxman186":34b3ioj0 said:

Smith: WLB

Wagner: MLB

Wright: SLB

Irvin: LEO

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It's hard to imagine Irvin playing Leo. He is so weak against the run that he'd be a major liability at that spot, plus he'd be matched up against the LT on passing downs, and I haven't seen him win too many of those. IMO the coaching staff recognized this when they moved him to OLB last season even though he was drafted to eventually take over at Leo and they had a need with Clemmons was coming off major knee surgery.

IMO they'll use Irvin like they did towards the end of last season, rotating at Will with Smith.

Click to expand...

If you're referring to the ATL game a couple years ago, Irvin is drastically improved in run defense. It is no longer a concern at all. In fact, because Leo and SLB are functionally the same in run defense, I believe it was the purpose of having Irvin play OLB after he came back from suspension. Or at least part of the reason, I should say. Irvin playing SLB last year was a great deal of NFL on the job training. He did well there in coverage and in the run game and you already know he can get to the QB, which he actually didn't have a lot of opportunities to do last year.

Irvin is ready for just about any kind of edge play this season.

themunn":3bvbbp82 said:

What I mean is we're not going to say "oh, we topped in the league in just about every defensive metric last year with Wright at WILL and Irvin/Smith at SAM, so why would we try and move their positions?

Personnel changes and defensive scheme shifts are inevitable to stay ahead of the curve, but personnel shifts only make sense if you bring in a player to take someone elses role (such as Bennett and Avril coming in to justify the move to LB for Irvin, which, with Hill moving on, gave us a good reason to move KJ to WILL), we're not going to suddenly move Kam to LB and ET to corner to "stay ahead of the curve", so why would we move our linebackers about without good reason?

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Is productivity not a good reason? Avril plays better on the left and he lined up at LOLB in a 3-4 at times last year when Irvin was lined up at ROLB, which in the Under is the Leo. This has already happened.

Obviously we could add a Leo. However, everyone knows Avril likes playing on the left and, if you had your way, Irvin would stay where he is at.

Where does that put the Leo position?

As of right now, we'd probably platoon the position with both Irvin and Avril, but it's up in the air. My thoughts on it were to take something we had already done and expand on it just a little.

Why?

To put the best players on the field.

It could be just as simple as keeping things the way they are and plugging Avril in at Leo on the right side and maybe it will be fine, but I highly highly doubt that it will be that simple.

There will be at least some evolution to this defense. Personnel changes almost dictate it. The LB corps is directly affected by the open Leo position.

vin.couve12":gdbnmq8t said:

RiverDog":gdbnmq8t said:

Maxman186":gdbnmq8t said:

Smith: WLB

Wagner: MLB

Wright: SLB

Irvin: LEO

Click to expand...

It's hard to imagine Irvin playing Leo. He is so weak against the run that he'd be a major liability at that spot, plus he'd be matched up against the LT on passing downs, and I haven't seen him win too many of those. IMO the coaching staff recognized this when they moved him to OLB last season even though he was drafted to eventually take over at Leo and they had a need with Clemmons was coming off major knee surgery.

IMO they'll use Irvin like they did towards the end of last season, rotating at Will with Smith.

Click to expand...

If you're referring to the ATL game a couple years ago, Irvin is drastically improved in run defense. It is no longer a concern at all. In fact, because Leo and SLB are functionally the same in run defense, I believe it was the purpose of having Irvin play OLB after he came back from suspension. Or at least part of the reason, I should say. Irvin playing SLB last year was a great deal of NFL on the job training. He did well there in coverage and in the run game and you already know he can get to the QB, which he actually didn't have a lot of opportunities to do last year.

Irvin is ready for just about any kind of edge play this season.

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I wasn't just referring to the Atl playoff game. It has been a rap on him ever since his days at WVU. But if he is "drastically improved" as you claim he is, it sure isn't showing up in his stat line or in our coaching staff's use of him. He virtually disappeared over the last 3-4 regular season games and in the playoffs.

But we'll see. Irvin doesn't get blown out on running plays, he just doesn't seem to be able to get off blocks.

RiverDog":orbug6qz said:

vin.couve12":orbug6qz said:

RiverDog":orbug6qz said:

Maxman186":orbug6qz said:

Smith: WLB

Wagner: MLB

Wright: SLB

Irvin: LEO

Click to expand...

It's hard to imagine Irvin playing Leo. He is so weak against the run that he'd be a major liability at that spot, plus he'd be matched up against the LT on passing downs, and I haven't seen him win too many of those. IMO the coaching staff recognized this when they moved him to OLB last season even though he was drafted to eventually take over at Leo and they had a need with Clemmons was coming off major knee surgery.

IMO they'll use Irvin like they did towards the end of last season, rotating at Will with Smith.

Click to expand...

If you're referring to the ATL game a couple years ago, Irvin is drastically improved in run defense. It is no longer a concern at all. In fact, because Leo and SLB are functionally the same in run defense, I believe it was the purpose of having Irvin play OLB after he came back from suspension. Or at least part of the reason, I should say. Irvin playing SLB last year was a great deal of NFL on the job training. He did well there in coverage and in the run game and you already know he can get to the QB, which he actually didn't have a lot of opportunities to do last year.

Irvin is ready for just about any kind of edge play this season.

Click to expand...

I wasn't just referring to the Atl playoff game. It has been a rap on him ever since his days at WVU. But if he is "drastically improved" as you claim he is, it sure isn't showing up in his stat line or in our coaching staff's use of him. He virtually disappeared over the last 3-4 regular season games and in the playoffs.

But we'll see. Irvin doesn't get blown out on running plays, he just doesn't seem to be able to get off blocks.

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Even if we only play Irvin at LEO in obvious passing situations, his presence there will be a benefit to our pass rush. It would mean we could continue to have Avril/Bennett rushing from the same side. Irvin did have eight sacks as a rookie playing LEO, while he received few opportunities to blitz at SLB. Our every down LEO will probably be Bennett or Avril, depending on the opponent and whom we need at the five technique. Benson Mayowa could be another option at LEO on third downs; we just don't have enough information on him yet.

Is there some reason the poll is no longer displaying results? Last time I checked, K.J. Wright was garnering about 2/3 of the votes.