Hawks decline 5th year option for Carp

No real surprise here, but Per King 5 news: #‎Seahawks‬ decline the 5th year option (for 2015) on OL James Carpenter. He was the Hawks #1 pick (25th overall) in 2011.

Totally makes sense not to pick up the option and I don't think it says anything about how we view him long term, just that we don't want to pay him the price of that option.

bigtrain21":2sl86q0r said:

Totally makes sense not to pick up the option and I don't think it says anything about how we view him long term, just that we don't want to pay him the price of that option.

Click to expand...

This. ^^

If he has a good season, they'll work to bring him back, but no guarantees.

Even if he has an All-Pro year this year he'll be lucky to get 7 million next year
this was a no brainer

The 5th year option was only guaranteed if the player was injured. Which, given Carp's track record, makes this the right decision.

Bigpumpkin":38bpm4hw said:

John Schneider wasn't born yesterday!

Click to expand...

Schneider was born at night, just not last night!! :thirishdrinkers:

For much of his time here he has not been healthy or in great shape. Hopefully he draws some motivation from this to fight through what ever has been holding him back.

Carpenter did not play up to his first round status. I'm not saying he can't develop to be a bit better, but his feet are not naturally nimble enough to pass block as a tackle, so he will always be a guard, regardless of who he plays for. Guards don't make tackle money....which was the position he was drafted for (and originally paid for). Hence, he takes the pay cut.

If you want to use the entire playbook in the running game, a nimble footed guard is a must. Pulling for traps and sweeps, taking out safteys and linebackers at the second level. In other words, I believe the Seahawks are limited in the types of running plays they can rely on. The read option is a lifesaver for them because it puts pressure on the defensive ends where the Seahawks are better equipped to block it well. The threat of Wilson reading the defensive end, even though he actually runs with it at a small percentage, hides the fact that the guards can't get out in front of the pitches and sweeps. Additionally, the threat of Wilson not pulling the ball way from Lynch (Lynch runs it), forces the men playing over the guards to play in a confined area. In other words, if the guards are physically limited in space, run a scheme that forces the men over them to play in limited space as well.

I doubt Carpenter would stick with 30% of the rosters in this league, even as a guard, and I believe I am being generous in saying that.

If there is a glaring weakness with the Seahawks, it is at a couple of positions up front. A Houdini QB and Beast running back typically do a fine job of concealing it. The Cardinals consistently attack our guards (gap blitz with their linebackers) and do a better job of exposing it than anyone. They know our scheme (or better put, know our limitations) and can blow it up.

I called it!

One of my biggest raps on Pete and John of their otherwise superior analysis of player skills is how anyone could have thought that James Carpenter had the tools to become a decent OT at the NFL level. I took a lot of heat from people that are under the impression that everything PC and JS touch turns to gold when we made that pick back in 2011. Heck, even Carpenter's college coach said he was surprised he went that high, a coach that probably knows better than any other college coach what it takes to play in the NFL.

That's all water under the bridge, though. Even when healthy, Carp had trouble holding onto a starting position, being alternated with a journeyman like Paul McQ who we decided wasn't worth retaining, so you know the coaching staff isn't very high on him, and the decision not to pick up his option is just another indication of their disappointment. Depending on who we pick up in the draft, Carpenter might not even make the team this season.

RiverDog":138gn89e said:

One of my biggest raps on Pete and John of their otherwise superior analysis of player skills is how anyone could have thought that James Carpenter had the tools to become a decent OT at the NFL level. I took a lot of heat from people that are under the impression that everything PC and JS touch turns to gold when we made that pick back in 2011. Heck, even Carpenter's college coach said he was surprised he went that high, a coach that probably knows better than any other college coach what it takes to play in the NFL.

That's all water under the bridge, though. Even when healthy, Carp had trouble holding onto a starting position, being alternated with a journeyman like Paul McQ who we decided wasn't worth retaining, so you know the coaching staff isn't very high on him, and the decision not to pick up his option is just another indication of their disappointment. Depending on who we pick up in the draft, Carpenter might not even make the team this season.

Click to expand...

That'll be his college coach that sucked as an NFL coach and clearly DOESN'T know what it takes to play in the NFL. A guy whose 2 first round picks as an NFL coach were Ronnie Brown (2nd overall) and Jason Allen - so he's hardly an authority on what makes a good first round pick.
Another guy who coached in college the year before clearly didn't think that Sherman or Baldwin had what it took to play in the NFL either, even though he coached them. How did that turn out?

Regardless, even Saban thought Carpenter was a good player with a lot of potential:

Saban noted Carpenter's versatility, saying "he really proved that in the Senior Bowl when they played him at guard and tackle. And what a lot of people don't realize is in the NFL, you've got eight offensive lineman; somebody's got to play something besides the position that they play or you don't have two-deep. When you got a guy that I think he can be a really good guard, he's very athletic, he's a tough guy, he's physical, he's got the athleticism that he played left tackle very well in our league against some very good players for two years. So I think you've got a player that could possibly be a backup left tackle ... but (could) be a very good starting guard.

Click to expand...

That's pretty much exactly what we've got from Carpenter in the end - a guy who isn't a great tackle but has the potential to be a great guard.

I'm happy to give Carpenter the benefit of the doubt as this is the first healthy offseason he'll have had since being drafted - one of the things everybody said about him coming out was that his "athleticism" was great - evidently something we haven't seen much of, but hopefully with a full season under his belt and a full offseason, we might begin to see that athleticism re-emerge.

No synopsis needed. You have seen his play, or lack thereof.

themunn":twuuxp2i said:

I'm happy to give Carpenter the benefit of the doubt as this is the first healthy offseason he'll have had since being drafted - one of the things everybody said about him coming out was that his "athleticism" was great - evidently something we haven't seen much of, but hopefully with a full season under his belt and a full offseason, we might begin to see that athleticism re-emerge.

Click to expand...

Paradoxically, I think they saw Carpenter as a "safe" pick. Someone they thought they could count on to fill a void on the offensive line with steady, if unspectacular, play.

If Alvin Bailey is allowed to seriously compete at that left guard spot, I don't see how Carpenter will fend him off this year. The coaches have talked about using Bailey at tackle to begin with and then gradually moving him inside as he improves as a run blocker. He's just such a superior athlete in comparison to Carpenter.

Carpenter's 40: 5.22
Bailey's 40: 4.90

Carpenter's 10-yard split: 1.81
Bailey's 10-yard split: 1.72

Carpenter's 3-cone: 7.56
Bailey's 3-cone: 7.50

Carpenter's short shuttle: 4.75
Bailey's short shuttle: 4.69

Carpenter's bench press reps: 23
Bailey's bench press reps: 27

Also, Bailey is an inch shorter, but his arms are 3/4'' longer. Bailey, as an undrafted free agent signing, is everything they hoped Carpenter would become as a First Round pick.

One of Pete and John's bigger swing and misses...........so far. It happens.

hawksfansinceday1":2ix986wb said:

One of Pete and John's bigger swing and misses...........so far. It happens.

Click to expand...

Yep... Carp and ole Clip Board.

Well, Carp has one more season to prove he's worthy of a roster spot.

Here's to hoping they land that bulldozer guard we need on the left side in this year's draft! :thirishdrinkers:

onanygivensunday":2of73dqh said:

hawksfansinceday1":2of73dqh said:

One of Pete and John's bigger swing and misses...........so far. It happens.

Click to expand...

Yep... Carp and ole Clip Board.

Click to expand...

It happens. Still Carpenter does have this year to prove it so it's not over yet.

themunn":2ov7ro0l said:

That'll be his college coach that sucked as an NFL coach and clearly DOESN'T know what it takes to play in the NFL. A guy whose 2 first round picks as an NFL coach were Ronnie Brown (2nd overall) and Jason Allen - so he's hardly an authority on what makes a good first round pick.
Another guy who coached in college the year before clearly didn't think that Sherman or Baldwin had what it took to play in the NFL either, even though he coached them. How did that turn out?

Regardless, even Saban thought Carpenter was a good player with a lot of potential:

Saban noted Carpenter's versatility, saying "he really proved that in the Senior Bowl when they played him at guard and tackle. And what a lot of people don't realize is in the NFL, you've got eight offensive lineman; somebody's got to play something besides the position that they play or you don't have two-deep. When you got a guy that I think he can be a really good guard, he's very athletic, he's a tough guy, he's physical, he's got the athleticism that he played left tackle very well in our league against some very good players for two years. So I think you've got a player that could possibly be a backup left tackle ... but (could) be a very good starting guard.

Click to expand...

That's pretty much exactly what we've got from Carpenter in the end - a guy who isn't a great tackle but has the potential to be a great guard.

I'm happy to give Carpenter the benefit of the doubt as this is the first healthy offseason he'll have had since being drafted - one of the things everybody said about him coming out was that his "athleticism" was great - evidently something we haven't seen much of, but hopefully with a full season under his belt and a full offseason, we might begin to see that athleticism re-emerge.

Click to expand...

Oh, I'm not saying Saban was a good NFL coach. Quite the contrary, he was exactly what you said he was. But being that he's coached at both levels and has put forth a number of NFL players, some that made it and some that didn't, he should have a pretty good idea of what it takes to be successful at the next level.

Sabin did indicate that he was surprised that Carpenter went in the first round. That doesn't make anything else he might have said about him invalid, and was my biggest thing about drafting Carp, that I felt we took him too early, that he was projected to be at best a mid 2nd rounder.

But don't pay any attention to me. I also said that I thought we took Russell Wilson too early in the 3rd round.

Carpenter can only blame his inconsistency, at times dudes a monster, remember him Vs. Justin Smith? he was PUNKING that dude!

And then there's the other times where it looks like he just shouldn't be on the field ever in his life.

Its alright though, even Michael Jordan missed shots and PC & JS will miss their share as well. But the overall body of work is the best in the NFL. They took a team mired in mediocrity with an old ass QB, and old ass other players, one of those teams that was going no where with the quick fast, tore it down and built up a champion in 4 seasons. One miss the first round doesn't bother me one bit.