biggest media misconception about the hawks

BigBallsPete · May 19, 2014

I have been biting my tongue about this issue for a really long time but since we won the SB it has gotten ridiculous. I'm getting really tired of the talking point that gets reiterated ad nauseam by national/local media that John Schnieder is pretty much solely responsible for the talent the Hawks have acquired since 2010. I have been following Pete closely since about 2002 (I went to USC) and have watched fans and media try to downplay Pete's contributions to winning consistently for the last decade plus. Over that time frame I have heard similar concepts that keep coming up:

- Norm Chow was the reason USC was good in the early 2000s
- If it's not Norm Chow, it must be Sarkisian
- If it's not Sarkisian it must be Lane Kiffin (as insane as that sounds, go read old SC forum threads)
- Gus Bradley built the Hawks defense
- Schnieder drafts all our players and therefore is responsible for our talent pool

I like Schnieder a lot and think he is great for the organization but Pete can say "no" to him. It's as simple as that. If my boss asks me to put together a list of vendors for a job but has the ability to add/omit vendors on the list, those are not my picks. It doesn't matter if my boss says "yes" to the entire list. My boss is in fact picking the vendors because they are the one making the final call. Carroll would not have accepted the job without total control over the players on the team. . Carroll hired Schnieder to work under him; not the other way around.

“As guys get other jobs around the league, there isn’t always that level of trust and communication from the top down, and there isn’t always that willingness to let you do exactly what you feel and how you should do it. That’s what I’ve been given here — and I can’t tell you how excited I am about that,” Carroll said. “That is what I had at ’SC, and is when I’ve had my best success.” -- Pete on joining the Seahawks

Go listen to the Damon Huard on Brock and Danny recently. Danny asked Damon why Pete is successful now, and was not back in the NE and Jet days. Damon said something to the effect of: "That's simple, Pete didn't have control over what players were drafted back then. Once he got to USC he became was his own player personnel director and the rest is history." Danny had nothing to say because he is one of those media members that constantly talks about how John Schnieder makes the picks. It's not true. Pete stirs the drink. Pete ultimately controls all football decisions and nobody can dispute that. Look at all the Pac 12 players we have drafted and signed as UDFAs. Why do you think that is? Pete has been grabbing all the Pac 12 players he coveted and has been using them to dominate the league (west coast players have been traditionally undervalued in the NFL).

When we lose, especially if it comes down to a coaching call (like trying a 63 yard field goal for instance), we all blame Pete. If we win, many ppl in our fan base and local media give credit to anyone/everyone except Pete. I think it all stems from an inherent bias many have against Pete for the USC situation. When Pete's name comes up in a conversation, anybody in my office that doesn't follow football shouts "PETE CHEATED." Just like the "Fail Mary", if you ask the ladies on The View, they probably know all about Pete paying players. :sarcasm_on: This is one of the biggest media hatchet jobs I've ever seen for a non-political public figure.

If the team was devoid of talent, everyone would blame Pete for the draft picks. Fans/media would say Pete is the executive vice president and has final say, therefore he deserves all the blame. Because the picks have been good, those that are biased against Pete have to find other reasons why. If Schnieder were to leave (hopefully not, but I've heard he does crave total personnel control), I think media/fans would latch onto Cable, Dan Quinn or Ken Norton as the root cause of the Hawks success. Was there a single local media member that liked the hiring of Pete in 2010? I listen to both stations and can't think of one. Apologize for the rant

keatonisballin · May 19, 2014

While I didn't read the full post, I have no issues with John Schneider getting alot of the credit. I also always hear their names mentioned together anyway.

Sgt. Largent · May 19, 2014

BigBallsPete":675robcl said:
I'm getting really tired of the talking point that gets reiterated ad nauseam by national/local media that John Schnieder is pretty much solely responsible for the talent the Hawks have acquired since 2010.

I watch a LOT of NFL coverage, some wives named Mrs. Sgt. Largent would argue too much sports coverage. I've yet to hear even one media member say or write what you wrote here.

Pete has been widely praised for the way he coaches and his unique ability to extract as much effort and passion from his players as anybody in the history of the game.

So my vote for biggest misconception about the Hawks is their fan's ability to stop complaining about every little nitpicky thing and enjoy their freakin' SB win like a fanbase should.

volsunghawk · May 19, 2014

Ye gods, did this come from left field.

First off, it's widely acknowledged here that Carroll and Schneider are a team and that they work incredibly well together. Schneider DOES have a great eye for talent and his work with the Seahawks scouts is vastly important to the franchise. But I have never at any point heard any indications that Schneider is the only guy responsible for that success. If you watch any situation where Carroll and Schneider are interacting, you can tell that they respect each other and are on the same page. To suggest that either one of them is solely responsible for Seattle's success is ridiculous. And frankly, while Schneider has finally gotten some good press in the last year, not once have I seen anything that implies that Carroll is only along for the ride.

As for your other contentions, you need to find us an example of anyone saying that Gus built this defense. That's the most ludicrous thing I've ever read, and I think you are making it up. What's your motivation here?

Seahawker86 · May 19, 2014

JS brought PC attention to Russell Wilson, he pushed for him. So there is that

Yxes1122 · May 19, 2014

I am of the belief that JS is supremely important in understanding how the draft will fall and WHEN to pick players. But John + Pete is the best Front Office in the league. Individually they may be good, but IMO, not as good as they are together.

It will be interesting to see if anything changes if Pete retires and John takes over.

Sgt. Largent · May 19, 2014

volsunghawk":37hvfvin said:
Ye gods, did this come from left field.

First off, it's widely acknowledged here that Carroll and Schneider are a team and that they work incredibly well together. Schneider DOES have a great eye for talent and his work with the Seahawks scouts is vastly important to the franchise. But I have never at any point heard any indications that Schneider is the only guy responsible for that success. If you watch any situation where Carroll and Schneider are interacting, you can tell that they respect each other and are on the same page. To suggest that either one of them is solely responsible for Seattle's success is ridiculous. And frankly, while Schneider has finally gotten some good press in the last year, not once have I seen anything that implies that Carroll is only along for the ride.

As for your other contentions, you need to find us an example of anyone saying that Gus built this defense. That's the most ludicrous thing I've ever read, and I think you are making it up. What's your motivation here?

OP's name is BigBallsPete........I think that says it all.

VERDICT: Another case of perception not equaling reality

Skansi82 · May 19, 2014

Sgt. Largent":1j2osf9x said:
BigBallsPete":1j2osf9x said:

I'm getting really tired of the talking point that gets reiterated ad nauseam by national/local media that John Schnieder is pretty much solely responsible for the talent the Hawks have acquired since 2010.

Click to expand...

I watch a LOT of NFL coverage, some wives named Mrs. Sgt. Largent would argue too much sports coverage. I've yet to hear even one media member say or write what you wrote here.

Pete has been widely praised for the way he coaches and his unique ability to extract as much effort and passion from his players as anybody in the history of the game.

So my vote for biggest misconception about the Hawks is their fan's ability to stop complaining about every little nitpicky thing and enjoy their freakin' SB win like a fanbase should.

Best post I've seen on here in a long time!!! Not piling on the OP for the poll, but I laugh at how many "potential problems", "concerns", and complaints Hawk fans have about arguably the best team to ever come out of Seattle. Who knows how things pan out this year, but for giving me the ability to tell Niner fans to shut the hell up and live in the present, this organization is flawless in my book......for now.

Smellyman · May 19, 2014

"My biggest perceived misconception about the hawks"

Missing_Clink · May 19, 2014

I just find it funny that BigBallsPete has posted this thread about how awesome Pete is. Message received.

Sprfunk · May 19, 2014

I think the media had a hard time excepting Pete at first. His coaching style and abilities were questioned. Now they just have to come to the conclusion that they were wrong, and that is not easy for people whose opinions pay their bills.
This is one of the best coach/gm working relationships I have ever seen. I personally think this team will change coaching, and strategies in the nfl for years.

BigBallsPete · May 19, 2014

First off, it's widely acknowledged here that Carroll and Schneider are a team and that they work incredibly well together.

Never said they weren't a team or didn't work well together. Why would Pete want someone on his staff that he didn't work well with?

Schneider DOES have a great eye for talent and his work with the Seahawks scouts is vastly important to the franchise. But I have never at any point heard any indications that Schneider is the only guy responsible for that success. If you watch any situation where Carroll and Schneider are interacting, you can tell that they respect each other and are on the same page.

Never said Schneider doesn't have a great eye for talent. Pete seems to love and respect all the guys on his staff. As others have stated, all indications are John Schnieder made the case to draft RW. Since that's probably the most important pick in Hawks history so I will always love JS. All I'm saying is that Pete could have said no to RW if he wanted.

To suggest that either one of them is solely responsible for Seattle's success is ridiculous. And frankly, while Schneider has finally gotten some good press in the last year, not once have I seen anything that implies that Carroll is only along for the ride.

Never said Pete was solely responsible; it takes 53 plus all the staff at the v-mac. Pete does have final say about who plays on the team. There are plenty of talking heads saying that Schnieder is solely responsible for the talent acquired since 2010. I hear it a couple of times on local radio every day. This is from a recent article but I could find you 500 more passing statements like it -- http://seattletimes.com/html/seahawks/2022635008_seahawksschneider10xml.html
"Schneider does most of his work behind the curtain. That’s not uncommon in the NFL, but the result is that the architect of Seattle’s roster operates in the spotlight only around draft time."

As for your other contentions, you need to find us an example of anyone saying that Gus built this defense. That's the most ludicrous thing I've ever read, and I think you are making it up. What's your motivation here?

From Deadspin: http://deadspin.com/5952195/how-the-hell-did-the-seahawks-build-an-elite-defense
"Seattle's head coach, hired in 2010, is Pete Carroll, who had last coordinated a defense in 1996. As far as any outsider can tell, Carroll is the Seahawks' cruise director."
and
"The cameras don't often cut to Bradley on the sidelines, and announcers don't extol his scheme , because his scheme doesn't draw attention to itself."

From ESPN:
"For four seasons, Bradley was the defensive coordinator for the Seattle Seahawks, transforming the defensive unit into what now is one of the best in the NFL. Bradley opted to leave his stellar creation to take over as the head coach of a franchise in disarray."

Have you ever heard of Nick Caserio? That's the guy that runs scouting for Belichick.

And yes, my name on here is BigBallsPete so it's not a secret that I like the guy

A London Hawk · May 19, 2014

One of this years intake, I forget who, is a player JS has been watching for 10+ years.

Regardless of who makes the final decision about who gets drafted, I think one of the biggest differences between now and then is that Pete gets to decide the type of player the team goes out and gets (with the possible exception of the o-line)

Even if Pete does make all the draft decisions, which I myself doubt, he's choosing from a menu put together by JS and the scouting team. As Pete and John have both said many times, they are a team. A damn good one.

pmedic920 · May 19, 2014

Regulators.......

Are we getting trolled?

SalishHawkFan · May 19, 2014

Pete and John go together like peanut butter and jelly. That's why they're called P&J.

LudwigsDrummer · May 19, 2014

I'm going to have to give the OP a mulligan on this one.

Try harder.

JZ#1 · May 19, 2014

pmedic920":18jlw506 said:
Regulators.......

Are we getting trolled?

DavidSeven · May 19, 2014

I think Pete, John and Gus are probably getting appropriate levels of credit for the team's success. John would be the first to tell you that Pete and his staff deserve a ton of credit for coaching up these players and that thought has been gaining traction in the national press. On the flip side, John has been given much deserved credit for fearlessly churning this roster until it worked and finding guys who fit the personality of this team. Personally, I think Pete has a bigger hand in player acquisition than people seem willing to admit, but nevertheless, everyone seems to concede that Papa Pete is the "guiding hand" over this franchise. If he wins another title, he's going to the Hall IMO. However, that shouldn't take away from John's accomplishments, and it hasn't. When you're successful, there's enough credit to go around.

As for Gus, I don't recall him ever being talked about leading up to the SB. Gus helped lay the groundwork here, and for that, he is appreciated, but the defense has since gone onto even greater heights without him. No one expected this defense to drop off after he was hired away, which basically says all you need to know about who's really getting credit for this D.

The stuff about Chow, Sark and Lane is just silly. Those USC teams were Pete's, and anyone with any sense thought so.

thebanjodude · May 19, 2014

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

volsunghawk · May 19, 2014

BigBallsPete":2p5q2a86 said:
First off, it's widely acknowledged here that Carroll and Schneider are a team and that they work incredibly well together.

Click to expand...

Never said they weren't a team or didn't work well together. Why would Pete want someone on his staff that he didn't work well with?

Schneider DOES have a great eye for talent and his work with the Seahawks scouts is vastly important to the franchise. But I have never at any point heard any indications that Schneider is the only guy responsible for that success. If you watch any situation where Carroll and Schneider are interacting, you can tell that they respect each other and are on the same page.

Click to expand...

Never said Schneider doesn't have a great eye for talent. Pete seems to love and respect all the guys on his staff. As others have stated, all indications are John Schnieder made the case to draft RW. Since that's probably the most important pick in Hawks history so I will always love JS. All I'm saying is that Pete could have said no to RW if he wanted.

To suggest that either one of them is solely responsible for Seattle's success is ridiculous. And frankly, while Schneider has finally gotten some good press in the last year, not once have I seen anything that implies that Carroll is only along for the ride.

Click to expand...

Never said Pete was solely responsible; it takes 53 plus all the staff at the v-mac. Pete does have final say about who plays on the team. There are plenty of talking heads saying that Schnieder is solely responsible for the talent acquired since 2010. I hear it a couple of times on local radio every day. This is from a recent article but I could find you 500 more passing statements like it -- http://seattletimes.com/html/seahawks/2022635008_seahawksschneider10xml.html
"Schneider does most of his work behind the curtain. That’s not uncommon in the NFL, but the result is that the architect of Seattle’s roster operates in the spotlight only around draft time."

As for your other contentions, you need to find us an example of anyone saying that Gus built this defense. That's the most ludicrous thing I've ever read, and I think you are making it up. What's your motivation here?

Click to expand...

From Deadspin: http://deadspin.com/5952195/how-the-hell-did-the-seahawks-build-an-elite-defense
"Seattle's head coach, hired in 2010, is Pete Carroll, who had last coordinated a defense in 1996. As far as any outsider can tell, Carroll is the Seahawks' cruise director."
and
"The cameras don't often cut to Bradley on the sidelines, and announcers don't extol his scheme , because his scheme doesn't draw attention to itself."

From ESPN:
"For four seasons, Bradley was the defensive coordinator for the Seattle Seahawks, transforming the defensive unit into what now is one of the best in the NFL. Bradley opted to leave his stellar creation to take over as the head coach of a franchise in disarray."

Have you ever heard of Nick Caserio? That's the guy that runs scouting for Belichick.

And yes, my name on here is BigBallsPete so it's not a secret that I like the guy

First, calling Schneider the architect doesn't necessarily mean that Carroll gets no credit.

Second, the Deadspin article doesn't really speak glowingly of Bradley, either. It devotes an entire paragraph to how unimpressive he is. It seems to lay the improvement of Seattle's D at the feet of the players themselves.

As for Caserio, no, I have never heard of him. If he's the author of the last bit you quoted, then it's no surprise I haven't heard of him. Because he's wrong. Oh, and as for scouting for Belichick, when's the last time the Pats showed actual good drafting acumen? It's been YEARS.

Regardless, there are plenty of articles giving Carroll his due for every one you can dig up that seemingly downplays his contributions.

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