Total QBR post season question?

brimsalabim

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How is it that so many QB's the Russell has sent home in the playoffs are ahead of him in this rating?
ESPN Mike Greenberg said that over the last three seasons Russ is #8. Cap is # 1 Luck is 5 Payton is #2 Breese was 6 Rogers was 3 and I don't tea all him even being in the playoffs? How on earth do they compute this stat?
 

sutz

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QBR in the original NFL version overvalues TD's, INTs, and yards. No mention of W/L percentage or 'game management' skills. Think of a Fantasy Football stat. We don't throw enough to get Wilson huge numbers, so he won't rank as high as others on more pass happy teams. Wilson's QBR is high enough, as he avoids Ints, but probably doesn't throw enough TDs to beat out the Manning's and Rodgers's of the NFL.

Hey, if he wins another SB or two, I can live with it. A comment about stats. Historically, stats leaders seldom win championships. The 'stat' that matters really is wins and losses, even though that was once a Trent Dilfer argument. ;)
 

Perfundle

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sutz":170ecu1p said:
QBR in the original NFL version overvalues TD's, INTs, and yards. No mention of W/L percentage or 'game management' skills. Think of a Fantasy Football stat. We don't throw enough to get Wilson huge numbers, so he won't rank as high as others on more pass happy teams. Wilson's QBR is high enough, as he avoids Ints, but probably doesn't throw enough TDs to beat out the Manning's and Rodgers's of the NFL.

Hey, if he wins another SB or two, I can live with it. A comment about stats. Historically, stats leaders seldom win championships. The 'stat' that matters really is wins and losses, even though that was once a Trent Dilfer argument. ;)
I think he's talking about ESPN's QBR, not passer rating. WIlson has a playoff passer rating of 102.0, which is 6th all-time among QBs with at least 100 attempts.

ESPN developed their Total QBR to try to account for those aspects of QB play that don't show up in normal passer rating, such as rushes, sacks and penalties, and also subjectively evaluating every play to see if who deserves credit or fault, but they went overboard on a lot of it, especially the rushing component. They overvalue long rushes far too much, when a lot of it is about field position than anything. The most egregious example from last year had Pryor getting a 93-yard rushing touchdown on the first play of the game, and thereafter going 10-18 for 88 yards, 0 TDs and 2 ints and 8 carries for 13 yards. Pryor contributed one first down the entire second half, and Oakland beat Pittsburgh despite gaining only 30 yards that half. That somehow earned Pryor a QBR of 96.2 out of 100.
 

sutz

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Perfundle":1p53pzuj said:
sutz":1p53pzuj said:
QBR in the original NFL version overvalues TD's, INTs, and yards. No mention of W/L percentage or 'game management' skills. Think of a Fantasy Football stat. We don't throw enough to get Wilson huge numbers, so he won't rank as high as others on more pass happy teams. Wilson's QBR is high enough, as he avoids Ints, but probably doesn't throw enough TDs to beat out the Manning's and Rodgers's of the NFL.

Hey, if he wins another SB or two, I can live with it. A comment about stats. Historically, stats leaders seldom win championships. The 'stat' that matters really is wins and losses, even though that was once a Trent Dilfer argument. ;)
I think he's talking about ESPN's QBR, not passer rating. WIlson has a playoff passer rating of 102.0, which is 6th all-time among QBs with at least 100 attempts.

ESPN developed their Total QBR to try to account for those aspects of QB play that don't show up in normal passer rating, such as rushes, sacks and penalties, and also subjectively evaluating every play to see if who deserves credit or fault, but they went overboard on a lot of it, especially the rushing component. They overvalue long rushes far too much, when a lot of it is about field position than anything. The most egregious example from last year had Pryor getting a 93-yard rushing touchdown on the first play of the game, and thereafter going 10-18 for 88 yards, 0 TDs and 2 ints and 8 carries for 13 yards. Pryor contributed one first down the entire second half, and Oakland beat Pittsburgh despite gaining only 30 yards that half. That somehow earned Pryor a QBR of 96.2 out of 100.
Ahhh, you're probably right. IAE, rating QBs is a difficult task, it would seem, especially in a game as team oriented as football. Hell, just counting completions and yards can be skewed by WR drop rates among other things.

I tend to use stats as indicators, that show something, but very seldom everything about a player's perfomance. After all, Rothlesbugger 'beat' us in *XL with a QBR in the 20's IIRC.
 

DavidSeven

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ESPN's QBR puts an emphasis on sacks taken and also on rushing. Russell played behind arguably the worst pass-protecting O-line in the NFL last year and made concerted effort to avoid running. That's going to skew his QBR.
 

hawknation2014

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DavidSeven":1g6207iu said:
ESPN's QBR puts an emphasis on sacks taken and also on rushing. Russell played behind arguably the worst pass-protecting O-line in the NFL last year and made concerted effort to avoid running. That's going to skew his QBR.

Exactly, QBR is a bullcrud statistic that is all about how good your offensive line is.

QB rating, although also flawed, is a much better measure of performance.
 

TXHawk

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Andrew Luck threw 7 picks in two playoff games and somehow ended up with a higher QBR than Russell Wilson who didn't throw any INTs in three games and won the Super Bowl. That tells me all I need to know about that metric.
 

MizzouHawkGal

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TXHawk":2mtc1fby said:
Andrew Luck threw 7 picks in two playoff games and somehow ended up with a higher QBR than Russell Wilson who didn't throw any INTs in three games and won the Super Bowl. That tells me all I need to know about that metric.
This.
 

kearly

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QBR also completely forfeits yards after catch, which really hurts Wilson as our offense is built around YAC so much.

Anyway, it's a terrible stat designed by people that don't understand football very well.
 

Trenchbroom

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kearly":1o4b1u18 said:
QBR also completely forfeits yards after catch, which really hurts Wilson as our offense is built around YAC so much.

Anyway, it's a terrible stat designed by people that don't understand football very well.

Oooh burn! Take THAT, Dilfer!
 

Steve2222

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Has he had a bad playoff game? The worst one I can think of was SF this year, but even then he came up so clutch in so many situations. And the Atlanta game speaks for itself. If the D would have held up on their end, his performance in that game would have been legendary (even though I still look at it in that light).
 

Smellyman

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ESPN QBR might be the worst stat ever contrived.

Josh McCown let the league in QBR last year.
 

Perfundle

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Steve2222":2aokpsat said:
Has he had a bad playoff game? The worst one I can think of was SF this year, but even then he came up so clutch in so many situations. And the Atlanta game speaks for itself. If the D would have held up on their end, his performance in that game would have been legendary (even though I still look at it in that light).
He wasn't bad at all in the SF game. There was the early strip-sack and the intentional grounding, but other than that he was quite good: 8.6 YPA, 1 TD, no ints and five third-down conversions. The New Orleans game was much worse.
 

Perfundle

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Smellyman":3twgn4ex said:
ESPN QBR might be the worst stat ever contrived.

Josh McCown let the league in QBR last year.
Josh McCown was third in passer rating, fourth in yards per attempt and had 13 TDs and only 1 interception. I think you're forgetting how well he played last year.
 

Anthony!

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Perfundle":2cwj29ab said:
sutz":2cwj29ab said:
QBR in the original NFL version overvalues TD's, INTs, and yards. No mention of W/L percentage or 'game management' skills. Think of a Fantasy Football stat. We don't throw enough to get Wilson huge numbers, so he won't rank as high as others on more pass happy teams. Wilson's QBR is high enough, as he avoids Ints, but probably doesn't throw enough TDs to beat out the Manning's and Rodgers's of the NFL.

Hey, if he wins another SB or two, I can live with it. A comment about stats. Historically, stats leaders seldom win championships. The 'stat' that matters really is wins and losses, even though that was once a Trent Dilfer argument. ;)
I think he's talking about ESPN's QBR, not passer rating. WIlson has a playoff passer rating of 102.0, which is 6th all-time among QBs with at least 100 attempts.

ESPN developed their Total QBR to try to account for those aspects of QB play that don't show up in normal passer rating, such as rushes, sacks and penalties, and also subjectively evaluating every play to see if who deserves credit or fault, but they went overboard on a lot of it, especially the rushing component. They overvalue long rushes far too much, when a lot of it is about field position than anything. The most egregious example from last year had Pryor getting a 93-yard rushing touchdown on the first play of the game, and thereafter going 10-18 for 88 yards, 0 TDs and 2 ints and 8 carries for 13 yards. Pryor contributed one first down the entire second half, and Oakland beat Pittsburgh despite gaining only 30 yards that half. That somehow earned Pryor a QBR of 96.2 out of 100.


Add to that it also penalized a QB for having a bad o-line. QBR is the worst measuring stick of a QB and most people to include most of the expert on ESPN do not use it they use QB rating.
 

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brimsalabim

brimsalabim

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Score one for Mike Golic though. They were discussing Cap's deal and Greenberg justified the. Umber by arguing that if you were starting a team and could pick any young QB that Cap should be the pick because in the post season When it's all on the line Cap has the highest total QBR. He back tracked a bit and allowed he would probably take Luckie first but that Cap was clear number 2.
Mike Golliic replied that he would take Russell Wilson. Greenberg said he didn't get that answer because Russell is so far down the list. Golic said he didn't care about the stat he cared about wins vs losses and Russell has proved it on the field.

I could swear that Big Mike used to be critical of Russell. I guess game respects game though.
 

Hawknballs

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LTR (Lombardi Trophy Rating):

Wilson: 100.00%
Klipperdoink: 000.00%
 

sutz

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Hawknballs":2z0dflf6 said:
LTR (Lombardi Trophy Rating):

Wilson: 100.00%
Klipperdoink: 000.00%
I see what you did there.

:)
 
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