Seahawks, Niners still NFL's two best teams, all drama aside

Stop the overreaction. End the nonsense. Unless injuries befall the young star quarterbacks or the fantastic coaches suddenly go on permanent and unprecedented vacations, there's nothing to see here. There isn't a drip or drop of news in the wild world of sports that can take San Francisco and Seattle off their perch as the two most talented teams in the NFL.

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Sgt. Largent":3ee6jxak said:

While I agree that the Niners and Hawks are the two best teams in the NFL right now, I don't agree with Schein about overreacting if I'm a Niners fan.

The Niners still have quite a few troubling holdouts, an all pro guard that wants to get paid..........and a head coach that still hasn't come to terms with ownership on a contract extension he's been asking for going on 12 months now.

None are monumental issues in June, but as we creep closer to training camp all these things could become HUGE distractions/problems if they're not resolved by September.

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loafoftatupu":221zxnjm said:

Nice read. The rare look at reality.

The Niners and Hawks are just completely different teams than the rest. Carolina is a poor man's version and have a lot of questions in the passing game on both sides of the ball.

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seahawk12thman":34mbxzw6 said:

Sgt. Largent":34mbxzw6 said:

While I agree that the Niners and Hawks are the two best teams in the NFL right now, I don't agree with Schein about overreacting if I'm a Niners fan.

The Niners still have quite a few troubling holdouts, an all pro guard that wants to get paid..........and a head coach that still hasn't come to terms with ownership on a contract extension he's been asking for going on 12 months now.

None are monumental issues in June, but as we creep closer to training camp all these things could become HUGE distractions/problems if they're not resolved by September.

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Or their aging linebackers, tight end, Defensive line, and Wide receiver. There question marks all over the secondary, their all pro who maybe out most of the year. The Niners are not a lock for anything and so far their last two drafts have been colossal flops with the exception of Eric Reid.

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kidhawk":2lidgizg said:

Is it ironic that this thread is turning into overreaction?

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Marvin49":71hweku5 said:

seahawk12thman":71hweku5 said:

Sgt. Largent":71hweku5 said:

While I agree that the Niners and Hawks are the two best teams in the NFL right now, I don't agree with Schein about overreacting if I'm a Niners fan.

The Niners still have quite a few troubling holdouts, an all pro guard that wants to get paid..........and a head coach that still hasn't come to terms with ownership on a contract extension he's been asking for going on 12 months now.

None are monumental issues in June, but as we creep closer to training camp all these things could become HUGE distractions/problems if they're not resolved by September.

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Or their aging linebackers, tight end, Defensive line, and Wide receiver. There question marks all over the secondary, their all pro who maybe out most of the year. The Niners are not a lock for anything and so far their last two drafts have been colossal flops with the exception of Eric Reid.

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edited

I really, really hope you are referring to 2012 and not 2013 and 2014. The 2014 players haven't even played yet and the Niners draft is considered one of the best (but you never really know till they play).

As for 2013....

Reid (Pro Bowl alt as a rookie)
Tank Carradine (would have been 1st rounder if not fir injury. Red-shirted)
Vance McDonald (raw but very athletic TE....looking good in minicamp this year, but was never going to start with Vernon ahead of him)
Corey Lemonier (backup OLB, played well when Aldon was out)
Quinton Patton (broke his foot so missed most of the year but looked good late and has looked good in minicamp)
Marcus Lattimore (was always going to redshirt)

I won't go into the later round guys...even though a few have looked pretty good.

Good teams don't usually have huge impacts from rookies. Their starters are already good.

Did the Seattle draft suck last year? By your rules it did since none of them started.

Come on man....have a clue.

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kearly":f6sxoimj said:

I like the fact that people generally view Seattle and SF as the two best teams in the NFL. It's good for the rivalry, it's good for media attention, and it's good for fans of those franchises and it's good for the league.

That said, Seattle and SF are not the two best teams in the league.

Seattle is clearly #1. They ranked #1 with a comfortable margin in DVOA each of the last two seasons, and last season they also ranked #1 in Advanced NFL Stats team efficiency rankings as well.

SF... ranked #7 in DVOA last season, and ranked #6 by Advanced NFL stats. SF was close to being a top two team in 2012, but not so much in 2013.

I think if you want to argue SF as the #2 team in football in 2014, you'd have to put a lot of stock in the improvement at WR. SF did play significantly better after Crabtree returned, and Johnson is a good slot receiver. But their defense is getting older and their two best defensive players have issues to deal with this season (Smith, legal; Bowman, injury).

I think it is a much more accurate description to say they are two elite teams, but the two best teams seems like a stretch. I know Denver just got their asses kicked, but over the last two seasons overall they've been easily the NFL's second best team.

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seahawk12thman":1vr1bvd0 said:

snip

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NorCal":thic5d54 said:

seahawk12thman":thic5d54 said:

snip

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I'd put forth that judging either team's draft from the last 2 or 3 years is premature. Both teams have a large core of starters and both teams have been mostly drafting for replacements in the future, not necessarily starters today (with some certain exceptions, but not generally). Yes, some guys on the Niners are getting "older" but aren't really old. Only a couple may be considered "old" but the Niners have drafted guys who they envision will replace them. I think SEA has largely done the same thing. Thats how you keep teams good for the long haul.

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seahawk12thman":9o3eiehw said:

Marvin49":9o3eiehw said:

seahawk12thman":9o3eiehw said:

Sgt. Largent":9o3eiehw said:

While I agree that the Niners and Hawks are the two best teams in the NFL right now, I don't agree with Schein about overreacting if I'm a Niners fan.

The Niners still have quite a few troubling holdouts, an all pro guard that wants to get paid..........and a head coach that still hasn't come to terms with ownership on a contract extension he's been asking for going on 12 months now.

None are monumental issues in June, but as we creep closer to training camp all these things could become HUGE distractions/problems if they're not resolved by September.

Click to expand...

Or their aging linebackers, tight end, Defensive line, and Wide receiver. There question marks all over the secondary, their all pro who maybe out most of the year. The Niners are not a lock for anything and so far their last two drafts have been colossal flops with the exception of Eric Reid.

Click to expand...

edited

I really, really hope you are referring to 2012 and not 2013 and 2014. The 2014 players haven't even played yet and the Niners draft is considered one of the best (but you never really know till they play).

As for 2013....

Reid (Pro Bowl alt as a rookie)
Tank Carradine (would have been 1st rounder if not fir injury. Red-shirted)
Vance McDonald (raw but very athletic TE....looking good in minicamp this year, but was never going to start with Vernon ahead of him)
Corey Lemonier (backup OLB, played well when Aldon was out)
Quinton Patton (broke his foot so missed most of the year but looked good late and has looked good in minicamp)
Marcus Lattimore (was always going to redshirt)

I won't go into the later round guys...even though a few have looked pretty good.

Good teams don't usually have huge impacts from rookies. Their starters are already good.

Did the Seattle draft suck last year? By your rules it did since none of them started.

Come on man....have a clue.

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Already mentioned Reid (didn't mention his high number of concussions, hopefully that doesn't shorten his career)

1) McDonald is getting roasted by the Webzone for his drops (17% which is atrocious) and our own Willson (his brother at Rice) started and had better stats than McDonald who was a rookie and started LOL.

2) I am not referring to 2014's draft because that is all hype like ours. Everybody is an all pro if you read the tabloids so lets put this years crop aside
.
3) You have already conceded 2012 so by that admission alone I am 50% right LOL.

4) Tank Carradine and Marcus Lattimore didn't play, till they do, can't say they were good picks. Lattimore has had hamstring issues and Harbaugh himself has said they will not know about him till he is in full pads and playing at game speed. Carradine will keep his explosiveness but his strength maybe compromised. Apparently Joe Staley owned him in practice (albeit Staley is elite), nothing to report yet about Carradine.

5)Patton has done nothing and had been invisible. And yes he has been hurt but he hasn't been a factor.

6) Corey Lemonier 16 games, 12 tackles, 1 sack. ukeface: Best games were 3 tackles against Rams and Cardinals. KJ Wright had 50 tackles his rookie year playing outside linebacker.

Our rookies from 2012, 2013
2012
Bruce Irvin Starter and was 4th best rated linebacker
Bobby Wagner Starting linebacker and will be a pro bowler this year, should have been one last year.
Russell Wilson need I say more
Robert Turbin backup running back
Jay Howard rotational player for Chiefs even though he didn't make it here.
Korey Toomer Pete has said he has been the best player in camp.
Jeremy Lane Starting nickel this year
Winston Guy, ok our first scrub drafted didn't have enough room, is with Jacksonville.
JR Sweezy starting right guard
Greg Scruggs, has yet to play

2013

Christine Michael - Schneider said he and Harvin are the most explosive on the team and will be a significant contributor. Hard to supplant Beast Mode LOL
Jordan Hill played in rotation till he got hurt but got a sack and was disruptive till he was injured.
Jesse Williams, yet to produce
Therold Simon Yet to crack legion of Boom but will start this or next year.
Luke Willson Starting tight end with Miller
Ryan Seymour stolen by the Niners (Since their draft sucked why not steel ours LOL)
Ty Powell Gone
Jared Smith practice squad.
Michael Bowie (Starter for half our games including a playoff game).

With regard to the rest of your team what am I wrong about?
Gore 30+
Boldin 30+
Davis 30+ and holding out
Willis 29 but will turn 30 during playoffs.
Brooks 30+
J Smith 30+
Bowman is gone and nobody know when he will be back.
A Smith will be suspended but nobody know how long??

What exactly do I need to get a clue on?

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kearly":k648eki7 said:

I like the fact that people generally view Seattle and SF as the two best teams in the NFL. It's good for the rivalry, it's good for media attention, and it's good for fans of those franchises and it's good for the league.

That said, Seattle and SF are not the two best teams in the league.

Seattle is clearly #1. They ranked #1 with a comfortable margin in DVOA each of the last two seasons, and last season they also ranked #1 in Advanced NFL Stats team efficiency rankings as well.

SF... ranked #7 in DVOA last season, and ranked #6 by Advanced NFL stats. SF was close to being a top two team in 2012, but not so much in 2013.

I think if you want to argue SF as the #2 team in football in 2014, you'd have to put a lot of stock in the improvement at WR. SF did play significantly better after Crabtree returned, and Johnson is a good slot receiver. But their defense is getting older and their two best defensive players have issues to deal with this season (Smith, legal; Bowman, injury).

I think it is a much more accurate description to say they are two elite teams, but the two best teams seems like a stretch. I know Denver just got their asses kicked, but over the last two seasons overall they've been easily the NFL's second best team.

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seahawk12thman":1h4sywnh said:

Guess I touched a nerve. :thfight7:

One reliable starter in two years is a flop and a possible disaster in my book. Yes the book isn't closed but how can this not be a disappointment? You had positions of need despite your success. Wide receiver, opposite tight end (I know the Niners drafted McDonald for more than blocking), D tackle, Corner and until Reid you had needs at the safety position knowing you were probably going to lose Whitner and yet only 1 reliable starter?? As NorCal said, we will find out this year for 2013.

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