Does Steve Shilling become our new left guard??

Rainger · Jun 24, 2014

One of the off season FA signings that has probably gone with the least hoopla and is flying under the radar is the signing of guard Steve Shilling.

At 6.5 312 he is only 9 lbs less than Carpenter. In a zone blocking scheme footwork is more important than bulk. Could SS be a better fit to our line than Carp?

In the PFF depth chart he is listed as a backup to Sweezy but could it be that there is just not enough information about him and the reality is that he has the size and tools to play left guard where speed and agility could be used?

If in Cable we trust is true, could it be that we are sitting on another no name secret that will "come out of nowhere" and solidify the left side of the line with Okung?

volsunghawk · Jun 24, 2014

If we indeed follow the "in Cable we trust" line of thinking, then Carp is going to be our LG. Every report on Carp this offseason has been very positive, including straight from Cable himself.

http://mynorthwest.com/422/2547636/Cabl ... ter-Sweezy

That being said, I don't know how much stock I put into Cable's ability to develop guys. I've been underwhelmed so far.

Erebus · Jun 24, 2014

rainger":zaonrc2s said:
If in Cable we trust is true, could it be that we are sitting on another no name secret that will "come out of nowhere" and solidify the left side of the line with Okung?

Whoa there. I certainly don't trust Cable. He hasn't proven to be anything special as an offensive line coach. Schilling may supplant Carp, but Cable doesn't exactly have a track record of unearthing and developing o-line talent.

Smelly McUgly · Jun 24, 2014

I think Sweezy is actually getting there. Cable's not the genius at development that I thought he was, but he did get Unger's best year out of him yet (though how much of that was just Unger's natural growth, who knows), Sweezy looks like he's going to be good, and he did develop Giacomini from a practice squadder to a competent starter at right tackle.

Jville · Jun 24, 2014

Those snap shot, rarely updated, published weights are not reliable. I would think there is more than a 9 pound difference between Shilling and Carpenter.

Third party depth charts are not all that accurate this time of year. The Seahawks are refraining from publishing one until training camp.

I think both veteran backups acquired this off season are of interest. Cable had an interest in Shilling when he came out of college. Shilling comes from a well ranked San Diego offensive line. He should help push the starters. Although, Carpenter and Sweezy are the penciled in starters.

NorthDallas40oz · Jun 24, 2014

No, Schilling is not going to become our new LG. He's highly unlikely to even make the team.

Basis4day · Jun 24, 2014

Whomever gets beaten out for the starting RT Job between Bowie and Britt will likely be in a better position to push Carp along with Baily. Carp is going to start at LG regardless.

Rainger · Jun 24, 2014

I too think Carp will start this year. But just askin the question to get the responses.

A few years back if we asked about Sherman starting everyone and their dog would have said no way. This holds true for many of the current starters. When we acquired Breno off of the GB practice squad no one knew who he was. But our coaches sure did.

They went and signed Shilling for a reason and I don't think it is just camp fodder. I am pretty confident he will make the team and see some playing time.

Question is regardless of what Cable says right now to the media about Carp, in an always compete frame of mind, could it be possible that Shilling wins the job?

RolandDeschain · Jun 24, 2014

It's hard to accurately judge Cable due to the ridiculous number of injuries we have on the O-line each and every single year, to be honest. I'd kill for San Francisco's average O-line health.

Jville · Jun 24, 2014

With regard to coaching:

As the bar is raised for better conditioning, strength and flexibility, injury rates go down. As that happens, underrated coaches transition to overrated coaches.

That has been my observation over the years.

Lords of Scythia · Jun 24, 2014

Cable deserves some props for coaching up the zone-blocking scheme, which powers Beast Mode.

kearly · Jun 24, 2014

volsunghawk":16ddvhmt said:
If we indeed follow the "in Cable we trust" line of thinking, then Carp is going to be our LG. Every report on Carp this offseason has been very positive, including straight from Cable himself.

http://mynorthwest.com/422/2547636/Cabl ... ter-Sweezy

That being said, I don't know how much stock I put into Cable's ability to develop guys. I've been underwhelmed so far.

I'm giving the OL a mulligan for last season, most of the line was injured and two of the very best pass rushers in the game played in our division, while Wilson once again led the league in holding the football and Bevell led the league in predictability and inflexibility.

I really like what Cable has done with total nobodies. Sweezy is turning into a nice player, Bailey has looked great when we've seen him. Bowie is doing better than your average 7th rounder. Breno was garbage before Seattle and he was a nice player for us. Frank Omiyale was one of the worst linemen I'd ever seen when he was with the Bears, and was actually decent with Cable. McQuistan had two decent seasons before turning into crap last year.

Unger is not a noboby, but he was one of the worst guards in the NFL (PFF) as a rookie and basically missed all of his second season with an injury. Cable turned that guy into a pro-bowl caliber player in half a season. Unger regressed in 2013 but it was because of injury most likely.

Lynch resurrected his career thanks largely to coaching and advice from Tom Cable.

The only guys I can say disappointed me during the Cable tenure were Moffitt and Carp. I actually do think Cable had Moffitt playing up to his full potential, the problem was that Moffitt's ceiling was NFL backup. Carp just seems hard to motivate, and he hasn't had as much pure talent as his game footage from Alabama led many to believe.

My personal take on Cable is that he is a very good coach who sometimes has blind spots, like for example saying Mike Person was a better lineman than Bailey/Bowie immediately after a preseason in which Person got his ass kicked in every single game playing against camp fodder. Or his keeping Bailey on the bench while McQuistan and Bowie were getting eaten alive at the tackle spots.

And though I like Britt, I think it is true that we could have had him much later, and there are some disturbing flaws in his game that will make him a huge liability unless he can buckle down. Lack of anchor actually seems to be a theme with Cable OL, and defenses are beginning to realize this and exploit it.

volsunghawk · Jun 24, 2014

kearly":1dha0oqe said:
Unger is not a noboby, but he was one of the worst guards in the NFL (PFF) as a rookie and basically missed all of his second season with an injury. Cable turned that guy into a pro-bowl caliber player in half a season. Unger regressed in 2013 but it was because of injury most likely.

Fair points throughout, Kearly, but I did want to mention this...

I thought Unger was looked at as a center, not a guard, and that he earned most of his accolades at Oregon while playing center in 2007 and 2008. Is it fair to credit Cable with Unger's development, or to credit health and a switch back to the position for which he was most suited?

Hawkfan77 · Jun 24, 2014

kearly":1yj4mfi6 said:
volsunghawk":1yj4mfi6 said:

If we indeed follow the "in Cable we trust" line of thinking, then Carp is going to be our LG. Every report on Carp this offseason has been very positive, including straight from Cable himself.

http://mynorthwest.com/422/2547636/Cabl ... ter-Sweezy

That being said, I don't know how much stock I put into Cable's ability to develop guys. I've been underwhelmed so far.

Click to expand...

I'm giving the OL a mulligan for last season, most of the line was injured and two of the very best pass rushers in the game played in our division, while Wilson once again led the league in holding the football and Bevell led the league in predictability and inflexibility.

I really like what Cable has done with total nobodies. Sweezy is turning into a nice player, Bailey has looked great when we've seen him. Bowie is doing better than your average 7th rounder. Breno was garbage before Seattle and he was a nice player for us. Frank Omiyale was one of the worst linemen I'd ever seen when he was with the Bears, and was actually decent with Cable. McQuistan had two decent seasons before turning into crap last year.

Unger is not a noboby, but he was one of the worst guards in the NFL (PFF) as a rookie and basically missed all of his second season with an injury. Cable turned that guy into a pro-bowl caliber player in half a season. Unger regressed in 2013 but it was because of injury most likely.

Lynch resurrected his career thanks largely to coaching and advice from Tom Cable.

The only guys I can say disappointed me during the Cable tenure were Moffitt and Carp. I actually do think Cable had Moffitt playing up to his full potential, the problem was that Moffitt's ceiling was NFL backup. Carp just seems hard to motivate, and he hasn't had as much pure talent as his game footage from Alabama led many to believe.

My personal take on Cable is that he is a very good coach who sometimes has blind spots, like for example saying Mike Person was a better lineman than Bailey/Bowie immediately after a preseason in which Person got his ass kicked in every single game playing against camp fodder. Or his keeping Bailey on the bench while McQuistan and Bowie were getting eaten alive at the tackle spots.

And though I like Britt, I think it is true that we could have had him much later, and there are some disturbing flaws in his game that will make him a huge liability unless he can buckle down. Lack of anchor actually seems to be a theme with Cable OL, and defenses are beginning to realize this and exploit it.

Thanks Kearly, you said exactly what I was thinking better than I would have written it. :th2thumbs:

I've been extremely impressed with what Cable has done here with our OL. Methinks some forget just how bad our OL was before Cable arrived. Or that our OL was good enough to win a SUPERBOWL!!

Hawkfan77 · Jun 24, 2014

volsunghawk":1f5rmrtm said:
kearly":1f5rmrtm said:

Unger is not a noboby, but he was one of the worst guards in the NFL (PFF) as a rookie and basically missed all of his second season with an injury. Cable turned that guy into a pro-bowl caliber player in half a season. Unger regressed in 2013 but it was because of injury most likely.

Click to expand...

Fair points throughout, Kearly, but I did want to mention this...

I thought Unger was looked at as a center, not a guard, and that he earned most of his accolades at Oregon while playing center in 2007 and 2008. Is it fair to credit Cable with Unger's development, or to credit health and a switch back to the position for which he was most suited?

To be fair, most here freaked out when the Hawks jettisoned Spencer in favor of Unger, which was Cables call. Most here wanted nothing to do with Unger because of how terribly he played on the interior of the line

DavidSeven · Jun 24, 2014

I've certainly questioned some of Cable's personnel decisions, but to say he has no track record of developing O-Line talent is a bit much. He's basically developed a top-tier rushing team in every destination he's ever coached at. That's no coincidence. He's developed nobodies into competent NFL players and competent NFL players into Pro Bowlers.

He didn't exactly walk into a great O-line situation back in 2011, but by 2012, our O-line was already playing at an incredibly high (I dare say, elite) level. Last year was sort of a disaster, but what do you expect when your LT, C, and RT all suffer significant injuries? Did he whiff on Carpenter and Moffitt? Maybe, but their early knee injuries may have derailed those guys before they could really get started. I contend that Moffitt had some talent, but he wasn't the true road grader that Cable wanted and probably wasn't a personality fit in the locker-room. Carp still has an opportunity to shine.

Pandion Haliaetus · Jun 24, 2014

I get why its hard to be appreciative of Cable but you try to build an O-Line from scratch in 2011 from one of the worst talent pools in league on roster (2010) as well as a horrible talent pool in the draft (2011). All the while, playing 6 games a year against some of the elite D-Lines in the NFL (since 2011 when Aldon Smith and Robert Quinn came into the league).

That's so easy to do, right.

Yes, the pass protection has been atrocious over the years but what still remains is that Seahawks O-Linemen are tougher, more prepared, and more versatile circa 2011-2013 then they were from 2006-2010. And that we've have one of those most dominate and feared Running Game in the NFL, today and over the last 3 years. And we haven't seen that type of rushing success since 2005.

And despite the Seahawks missing 19 starts out of their 3 most experienced, 3 most important players on the O-Line in the first 12 or games or so.

Despite starting an athletically average OG out of place at LT...

Despite relying on an overweight, injury tenative OG at LG...

Despite Unger playing through bicep and chest injuries that reduced his effectiveness...

Despite relying on an 2nd year DT to OL convert at RG...

Despite relying on a 21 year old, 7th round rookie to play 7.5 games at RT...

The Seahawks forged an 11-1 record, would go on to finish 5-2, and win a Superbowl.

But yeah let's be unappreciative of all the hard work and adversity that ALL players and ALL coaches had to work through in such a brilliant season.

O-line Success to me can be formulated into OLS = Talent x Health x Experience x Chemistry

What the Seahawks went through last year with all the injuries should be merited more than it should be looked down upon.

hawkfan68 · Jun 24, 2014

There was a player rating in another thread while back, it had each player on the roster rated. There could definitely be potential upgrades at the following positions - LG, RG, and RT. Each were rated "below average" in the rating. While Sweezy may have improved, he still has a long way to go and if there's someone better, there should be no hesitation in removing him as a starter. If Sweezy is the measure of Cable's coaching prowess then the bar is quite low. Need to look at the OL as a whole. Has the OL improved significantly from when Cable took over? Rather than looking at players individually, how has the whole line fared. IMO, that's a better measuring stick.

kearly · Jun 24, 2014

volsunghawk":32zvhrhh said:
Fair points throughout, Kearly, but I did want to mention this...

I thought Unger was looked at as a center, not a guard, and that he earned most of his accolades at Oregon while playing center in 2007 and 2008. Is it fair to credit Cable with Unger's development, or to credit health and a switch back to the position for which he was most suited?

Unger played guard in High School. He started at left tackle for Oregon in 2005 and 2006 before moving to center in 2007 and 2008. So basically he had played everywhere extensively before going to the NFL, and some scouts had him listed as a G/T type prospect.

Anyway, I personally watched him closely in 2009 and thought he was quite terrible. I'm sure he would have been just as bad at center, the thought at the time was that guard is an easier learning curve for an NFL rookie. You sometimes see NFL centers start off at guard in their first year and Unger was one such case.

seedhawk · Jun 24, 2014

kearly":19ied3yb said:
volsunghawk":19ied3yb said:

Fair points throughout, Kearly, but I did want to mention this...

I thought Unger was looked at as a center, not a guard, and that he earned most of his accolades at Oregon while playing center in 2007 and 2008. Is it fair to credit Cable with Unger's development, or to credit health and a switch back to the position for which he was most suited?

Click to expand...

Unger played guard in High School. He started at left tackle for Oregon in 2005 and 2006 before moving to center in 2007 and 2008. So basically he had played everywhere extensively before going to the NFL, and some scouts had him listed as a G/T type prospect.

Anyway, I personally watched him closely in 2009 and thought he was quite terrible. I'm sure he would have been just as bad at center, the thought at the time was that guard is an easier learning curve for an NFL rookie. You sometimes see NFL centers start off at guard in their first year and Unger was one such case.

As was Spencer.

Does Steve Shilling become our new left guard??

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