Great story on Seattle's DLine rotation compared NFCW

Jville

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I heard some interesting snap numbers yesterday from Hugh Millen at about 25 min into this podcast >>> [urltargetblank]http://www.sportsradiokjr.com/media/podcast-mitch-in-the-morning-ondemand-mitchinthemorning/hugh-millen-joins-dick-fain-to-24937948/[/urltargetblank]

But I'm glad to see John Fraley put it in print today. Good find. And I think it helps provide insight into why conventional depth charts are less useful with Seattle's rotation than is the case with the defensive linemen of other teams. It also explains how they can bring so much energy to their 4th quarter finish.

Thanks for posting. :D

Edit: Seahawks had 7 guys that played at least 79% of the snaps of Michael Bennett. The closest any other team came was 4 guys that had at least 79% of the snaps of their snap leader.

Growing the defensive line rotation from 7 to 8 primary linemen just might be a beneficial goal for 2014.
 

RolandDeschain

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This can't be correct. According to enemy fans, we don't have any great D-linemen, since they're not good enough to log a full-time quality starter's number of snaps!

:sarcasm_off:

(I seriously saw that argument posed by a number of enemy fans from various teams regarding Michael Bennett getting re-signed by us a few months ago. Dare I say it, I even saw a couple Seahawks fans agree with it, comparing his snap counts to Robert Quinn's...)
 

ClumsyLurk

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RolandDeschain":22vckum1 said:
This can't be correct. According to enemy fans, we don't have any great D-linemen, since they're not good enough to log a full-time quality starter's number of snaps!

:sarcasm_off:

(I seriously saw that argument posed by a number of enemy fans from various teams regarding Michael Bennett getting re-signed by us a few months ago. Dare I say it, I even saw a couple Seahawks fans agree with it, comparing his snap counts to Robert Quinn's...)
Ahh the RW3 argument, it's all about what you're asked to do and not how well you do it. Hopefully we win another couple SB's and call the entire thing moot.
 

Bob_the_Destroyer

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ivotuk":150nxh0b said:
"Meanwhile, in the CLink's cozy, cacophonous confines, no Seahawk lineman saw the field more than 60 percent of the time. Seven guys played between 46 and 57 percent of available defensive snaps. That's right, the leading snap-getter for Seattle only played four out of every seven snaps."


http://www.fieldgulls.com/seahawks-anal ... e-rotation


Last year had a special set of circumstances where they had injuries and also brought in players who they thought were specialists. Michael Bennet turned out to be more versatile than they thought and his shoulder turned out to be less injured than they thought (I hope), so he will play a lot more snaps this next season.

This is typical fieldgulls wannabe, phony analysis. The moron takes the stats from *one* season and tries to establish some kind of steady state number for a "PCSeason." (Say it out loud, it's more fun that way. -- fieldgulls)

Chris Clemons had 911 snaps in 2012 for 1.68 PCSeasons (remember to say it out loud), which was more than all but one player in the division had in 2013. That is a lot for a team that runs the ball and uses a lot of clock so that there are fewer overall plays on average in their games,

Pete Carroll has not used a heavy rotation like this one on his defensive lines in the past and it really is not a part of his philosophy but because of the depth they will have at defensive line and because of the long stretch after their bye week, they will probably continue to rotate more than average. They will also rotate more at other positions where they have some depth.
 

onanygivensunday

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Bob_the_Destroyer":c7q2bz07 said:
Pete Carroll has not used a heavy rotation like this one on his defensive lines in the past and it really is not a part of his philosophy but because of the depth they will have at defensive line and because of the long stretch after their bye week, they will probably continue to rotate more than average. They will also rotate more at other positions where they have some depth.
Sounds like another Pete Carroll trend-setting innovation to me.
 

bjornanderson21

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onanygivensunday":5jqgw02y said:
Bob_the_Destroyer":5jqgw02y said:
Pete Carroll has not used a heavy rotation like this one on his defensive lines in the past and it really is not a part of his philosophy but because of the depth they will have at defensive line and because of the long stretch after their bye week, they will probably continue to rotate more than average. They will also rotate more at other positions where they have some depth.
Sounds like another Pete Carroll trend-setting innovation to me.
What he's doing is smart, but he's making use of what he has. Im pretty sure most coaches would rotate more often if they had the quality and quantity that we have. The key is actually getting the quality and quantity.

He definitely deserves credit for using "lower quality" players when there are better players available so that everyone stays fresher as well as giving players a better chance to gain experience and compete.
 

Jville

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I respectfully think any notion that they are using "lower quality" is not all that useful.

What we know is this. The Seahawk program is fueled by a commitment to build a specific plan for every individual at the VMAC. They repeat that message continuously. So there are possibilities for players starting their careers and potential roles for accomplished players finishing their careers.

We also have heard, repeatably, about building a rotation up front on the defensive line. After four years of following along, I tend to believe them. They are looking for unique players that fit into and buy into a unique program. Preconceptions and models that others are carrying around in their heads do not necessarily apply to the VMAC.

When Seattle signed Cliff Avril and Michael Bennett last year, the loudest conclusions were that the market was soft and the Seahawks stole a couple of good pass rushers. I would summit their conclusions were wrong because their assumptions were wrong. The noisy crowd incorrectly presumed the two would be used on a full time bases. The 2013 snap count exposed the folly of those assumptions.

Many fretted over the retention of Michael Bennett. When Michael Bennett extended, there were many that expressed amazement at the numbers. And, there are those that are already fretting over Cliff Avril. If Cliff Avril extends, it will be because of the plan for Cliff Avril.

So much noise and confusion outside of Seattle. Its not like the VMAC is a closed culture and super secretive installation. I'm at a loss to suggest how they can be more open and forthright. The 2013 data punctuates that their message can be trusted.

The Seahawk defense I see has 6 full time positions ..... two safeties, two cornerbacks and two linebackers. It's reflected in the snap counts. And I think, the data on contract extensions are beginning to reflect it as well.

Its a good time to reflect. Especially during this break with all its dead air.
 

NorCal

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RolandDeschain":1tsjour0 said:
This can't be correct. According to enemy fans, we don't have any great D-linemen, since they're not good enough to log a full-time quality starter's number of snaps!

:sarcasm_off:

(I seriously saw that argument posed by a number of enemy fans from various teams regarding Michael Bennett getting re-signed by us a few months ago. Dare I say it, I even saw a couple Seahawks fans agree with it, comparing his snap counts to Robert Quinn's...)


Bennett was the main problem for the Niners on that SEA D-line. He performed very well. He was more of a problem than Quinn was. I wasn't happy to see Bennett back with you guys.
 

Jville

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There were a lot of fans unhappy about losing Bennett the first time around. Most were relieved that it didn't happen a second time. Bennett really fits.
 

byau

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Sorry to you non-Spurs fans, but you gotta admit the comparisons are pretty awesome.

Spurs compile the best record in the NBA while no player averages greater than 30 minutes, evident when they had the legs to run the other teams off the court.

Seahawks keeping the guys fresh is an integral part of the system and will give us advantages to using both our young energetic players and our older experienced players !
 
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ivotuk

ivotuk

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imaho, outside of the rotation, there are 2 main reasons our defensive linemen (and all of our players) have been so succesful. John finds people with unique talents that other have overlooked, and Pete & Co. refine those talents, along with the defensive scheme to bring out the best in our players.

Something I noticed when Pete and John first arrived and you can see it carry through, the players that have excelled in Seattle, such as Kam Chancellor, Chris Clemons, Red Bryant and KJ Wright, would not have done so on most of the other 31 NFL teams. They know this and it shows in their happiness to be in Seattle.
 

Seahawkfan80

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ivotuk":2ucp4kn6 said:
imaho, outside of the rotation, there are 2 main reasons our defensive linemen (and all of our players) have been so succesful. John finds people with unique talents that other have overlooked, and Pete & Co. refine those talents, along with the defensive scheme to bring out the best in our players.

Something I noticed when Pete and John first arrived and you can see it carry through, the players that have excelled in Seattle, such as Kam Chancellor, Chris Clemons, Red Bryant and KJ Wright, would not have done so on most of the other 31 NFL teams. They know this and it shows in their happiness to be in Seattle.

Just look at the draft this time around. WHo was that and WHere did he go to school at???? Next up....SAMe thing.. WHo and where??? But it is working. :mrgreen:
 

Jville

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Today a speculative (to fill the dead air) follow up article from the same site.

Replacing Red Bryant & Chris Clemons: The future of the Seahawks' defensive line rotation >>> [urltargetblank]http://www.fieldgulls.com/football-breakdowns/2014/6/25/5832796/seahawks-cliff-avril-michael-bennett-tony-mcdaniel-pete-carroll[/urltargetblank]
 

ClumsyLurk

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byau":2prkiixt said:
Sorry to you non-Spurs fans, but you gotta admit the comparisons are pretty awesome.

Spurs compile the best record in the NBA while no player averages greater than 30 minutes, evident when they had the legs to run the other teams off the court.

Seahawks keeping the guys fresh is an integral part of the system and will give us advantages to using both our young energetic players and our older experienced players !
Noice! and the Hawks are doing it with one of the youngest rosters in the league, as opposed to the spurs
 
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