"Game Manager" vs. Future HOFer

:mrgreen:

Great post. I am surprised to see Manning having two rushing tds in 1999. I am guessing these are QB Sneaks?

True story, tell a friend.

Wilson's first year was better than Manning's second year in which Manning showed much improvement.

Yeah, but Wilson got to throw all those touchdowns to that wicked awesome Seahawks defense...oh wait...

I love it when folks underestimate Wilson and assume that he can't light it up when the Hawks need it. Carroll has said repeatedly that if they need it, Wilson can do it.

The Super Bowl was the perfect example. So was the first Saints game. Focusing on Lynch can make it different, but Wilson is glad to start winging it. The SB was perfect. Fox was likely positive that the Hawks would try to milk clock with the run and punt, but Carroll worked the clock with the pass and they just kept coming.

This is year 3 for a kid that doesn't know how to stop trying to improve, 2 years, 28 wins, 4 playoff wins and a Lombardi. Amazing.

and that is still a small part of the picture.

rank all his stats vs. ANYBODY and he is 1, 2 or 3 of all time.

most stats don't even include his over 1000 yards rushing in two years too.

The only thing holding him back from being a fantasy football star is number of attempts.

But this isn't about fantasy football. This is about winning games.

I have played fantasy football since 1992 (pen and paper back then....no web leagues). So far, I would compare Russell to Troy Aikman. A winner with excellent accuracy, but typically in a circumstance where a lot of throws are not required. Hence, the fantasy value doesn't illustrate actual value. Not by a long shot. You could be sure, though, that when Aikman's number was called to bring the team out of a hole, he could put up terrific numbers. Quarterbacks for losing teams, always playing catch up, disproportionally throw the ball more often, making them viable fantasy football options. This distorted view from a fantasy perspective is the only (I mean only) reason that Wilson is getting such negativity.

If fantasy football were played in the early 70's, Bob Griese would be considered a horrible quarterback. He commonly had 12 - 15 pass ATTEMPTS in a game. Having not played under that "fantasy lens", he is rightfully considered a historically good (if not great) quarterback......because he is a winner. He was often called a "surgeon". He consistently kept drives alive when needed.

Another point to take into account is the elite defense being played in the NFC West. Certainly a drag on the offensive numbers. We saw how the Seahawks torched the Denver defense....Something Brady couldn't do two weeks prior.

Hall of Fame after two seasons! New record!

bmorepunk":1rikeszw said:

Hall of Fame after two seasons! New record!

Click to expand...

Not even close. Luck got elected to the Hall his junior season of college.

Wilson IS a future hall of famer

As is Sherm and ET

Game manager, pocket passer, scrambler, ball-controller...

Whatever fork you wanna stick in him, I don't care.

It's all just excellent quarterback play to me.

:thcoffee:

One of the topics on this mornings NFL AM show on the NFL network was "What does Russell Wilson have to do to get better?" The consensus among the panel was nothing. I think it was Shawn Merriman who pointed out that the players around him needed to be more consistent and some one else added that the offense could allow him to take more chances with his throws but every one allowed that Russell is running the offense exactly as he has been coached.

Scottemojo":iawmipjz said:

bmorepunk":iawmipjz said:

Hall of Fame after two seasons! New record!

Click to expand...

Not even close. Luck got elected to the Hall his junior season of college.

Click to expand...

SO TRUE

brimsalabim":23oe7k2e said:

One of the topics on this mornings NFL AM show on the NFL network was "What does Russell Wilson have to do to get better?" The consensus among the panel was nothing. I think it was Shawn Merriman who pointed out that the players around him needed to be more consistent and some one else added that the offense could allow him to take more chances with his throws but every one allowed that Russell is running the offense exactly as he has been coached.

Click to expand...

About the ONLY thing I could say Wilson needs to work on (obviously every QB is always working on improving in every way) is ball security when he's scrambling around the pocket. He had quite a few fumbles last season, and especially the fumble to start the NFC championship game was definitely not good. He had multiple fumbles in the game against the cardinals. Much of that was due to pressure with a beat-up O-line at the time but Russell knows as much or more than we do about the state of the O-line and needed to consider that and up his ball security to compensate. He is known for having large hands, not just relative to his height but relative to your average NFL QB, so I'm not concerned he can't improve this.

There was also some criticism for missing on throws early in games, but again - can't really knock him for this. As much as I love our receiving corps, one thing it hasn't been is consistent as far as personnel and their positioning due to missing guys like Harvin and losing a Sidney Rice. It makes sense that he would A.) Need some time to calibrate his throws early on and B.) throw away from defenders even if it means an incompletion.

As far as taking more risks in the passing game, I don't know if i want him to take more. One of the things I love about Wilson (which also unfortunately contributes to the "game manager" aspect of his reputation) is his ability to understand the game situation and not take unnecessary risks.

I really think the one guy who's career and stats we should be looking at is Drew Brees:

http://www.nfl.com/player/drewbrees/2504775/careerstats

These "Short" QB's are only going to get better as they go along because all of their learning, repetition, and practice is going to help them compensate for the shortcomings they will face in the pocket. For the record I've never thought Wilson was "too short" to be a good QB - I watched him play several games in college and while I don't want to toot my own horn or sound like I know what I'm talking about, it was always annoying to me when people would say X player is too short to play. That's like saying someone who has a horrible singing voice makes a crappy musician. If you're a great guitar player or have excellent timing on the drums, who cares if you suck at signing?

Brees is a perfect example of learning and growing and just getting so damn good at the other aspects of your game, nobody cares or talks about how tall you are. To be perfectly honest I didn't even know that Drew Brees was considered so short until we drafted Wilson and the conversation got going.

bmorepunk":17ciiqpa said:

Hall of Fame after two seasons! New record!

Click to expand...

Maybe my title was misleading? Wilson is the quote "game manager" - future HOFer was in reference to Manning.

Obviously if wilson just does what he's been doing for the next 10 years he's a lock but I wont make the claim just yet.

brimsalabim":3autgnkv said:

One of the topics on this mornings NFL AM show on the NFL network was "What does Russell Wilson have to do to get better?" The consensus among the panel was nothing. I think it was Shawn Merriman who pointed out that the players around him needed to be more consistent and some one else added that the offense could allow him to take more chances with his throws but every one allowed that Russell is running the offense exactly as he has been coached.

Click to expand...

I'd even take that last comment further.

Russell is playing the position exactly as every team in the league should WANT to play it. It's not a knock on him in my mind at all that he doesn't put up ridiculous passing stats. It's on all of the other teams that they don't build their teams to play this way to begin with.

And it's not even about talent around him. It's starts and ends with the will as an organization to commit to a balanced attack. So few teams seek to achieve that balance. They talk about it all the time but in almost every case they are merely empty words. Even when they do infuse talent on the offensive line and at the running back position. Where the rubber meets the road -- team's falter in their will to run the ball.

Winning at the QB position is significantly founded on the principle of 'not losing'. We see it stressed all the time that he's careful with the football. As if that's some kind of retardation of his progression as a QB. But the game is replete with players -- even great players -- who very often times don't master the art of not losing games. I was fortunate to live in Wisconsin during Favre's SB runs and even a HOF player of his caliber would frequently lose games of his own accord. Other than the Cards game at home last season, I can't recall a game where I felt like Russell lost a game we should have won. And even in that game, he put us in a position late in the game to win.

From the outside, people tend to blame his lack of statistical success on 'how he's coached'. As if it's a question of restraining the play calling to not expose his deficiencies. I don't see that at all. He's playing the game as I would expect we'd demand even if he were a 10 year veteran.

And quite clearly, I see outsiders cite his mobility and scramble throws as some deficiency of his as a pocket passer (yes I'm looking at you Kurt Warner). But the reality is, it is merely a pressure avoidance measure. It is no different than a stoic immobile pocket passer simply throwing the ball incomplete early to avoid sacks. Something that one can't really measure like you can scrambles. The difference being that Wilson's scrambles to extend plays more often results in positive gains. Whereas throw aways simply show up as incompletions on a stat sheet indistinguishable from other forms of incompletion.

Even here many of us, I believe rightly, will cite incidents where Wilson's lack of height does come into play in the form of missed open receivers. But when you look at other tall QBs, they miss open WRs all the time. Even in the SB, Peyton missed close to 10 big plays -- not seeing open guys. Kaepernick's play to lose the NFCCG was another example of missing wide open receivers. It simply happens. Wilson's ability to make completions on the move more than compensates for the instances above the NFL average where he misses WRs because of sight limitations. It's a component of 'what he can do' that separates and elevates his production above and beyond his physical limitations.

Overall, I would agree. I don't see him needing to remake himself in order to get better. He plays the game as it should be played right now. While I still expect him to really blossom this year -- the reality is he just needs to keep doing what he's already doing. He doesn't *have* to get better. And yet I expect he will get a lot better. But I don't expect him to take more chances. Merely capitalize more on the chances he's already being afforded.

Wilson will ball out this season, i predict at least 30 TD with 4 Running TD, 3700 yards passing, 300 yards running. This is without Harvin. I just believe the 3rd year for a QB is usually their break out year.