Bruce Irvin time table for training camp not set.

Apparently he's doing fine rehabbing the hip but they don't know if of when he will be available for training camp. Looks like another road block in his development he needs this training camp. Bruce was the 15th pick in the draft wasn't he.
They have been great in the later rounds but they need to be better with there first pick then they have been since O'kung/Thomas . Pete said he's up against it and will have to work his butt off to make it back.

Irvin had a promising rookie and sophomore season and may miss some TC time and your criticizing the pick?

Meeker":1ew71yt3 said:

Irvin had a promising rookie and sophomore season and may miss some TC time and your criticizing the pick?

Click to expand...

He had a promising rookie season but that's it in fact they changed his position and he can't even elevate himself over Malcolm Smith my question to you is was he worth the 15th pick .

Yes he was.

Throwdown":1ue527kw said:

Yes he was.

Click to expand...

I disagree .

General Manager":19hzts5h said:

Throwdown":19hzts5h said:

Yes he was.

Click to expand...

I disagree .

Click to expand...

Good, then I'm very glad you're not our GM

City Of Reign":3hmgrfh5 said:

General Manager":3hmgrfh5 said:

Throwdown":3hmgrfh5 said:

Yes he was.

Click to expand...

I disagree .

Click to expand...

Good, then I'm very glad you're not our GM

Click to expand...

I would say that about every member of this board . Thanks for the off topic comment.

I agree if he can return to the player he was his rookie year he's worth the 15th pick . We'll see how he does right now the jury is still very much out. At least for the more objective NFL fan.

He wasn't worth the 15th pick, and I was one of his biggest fans. But... so what? He's now a slightly above average OLB who might still improve, and his draft pick expenditure is a sunk cost. It would be nice if PC/JS didn't get so cute in the early rounds, but Irvin is not a disaster by any means.

He is/was a middle of the first round pick that started on what could be argued THE, if not, one of the greatest defenses of all time.

As far as early picks go I sometimes get the feeling that the coaches influence those for than others. Or maybe its just because they are high picks it feels that way because they are talked about more. Carp just seemed to have Cable written all over him. Irvin had Carroll gushing about his pass rush and went so far as to say "taylor made" to play Leo. In his second season they had abandoned that idea. Okung had Gibbs altbough the need for LT was dire and Williams was gone. Carroll pushing for Harvin.

It is what is but every time you make a mistake in the first round it hurts the team in the salary cap, first round picks cost money. It also hurts because you could have had a better player . That said they know what there doing no one's perfect I don't expect them to be right every time and we just won the SB so who cares right now. We need something to talk about though and this is actual on the field news. I'm tired of the off the field back and forth between players that I don't care about . I can't wait for training camp .

1. We won a uperbowl with Irvin starting 15 of the 15 games he played in last year.
2. Seahawks still had the best Defense in the NFL despite BI being raw.
3. Irvin ranked as one of the best pass-rushers in the NFL as a rookie (pressure per snap)
4. Despite all the negative opinion Irvin actually had a solid 2013 campaign grading out positively.
5. He still ranks as one of the most productive DEs/OLBs/Pass-Rushers from his class especially among his first round people pets, second only to Chandler Jones (per PFref's Approx. Value). If you also have followed the narrative in CJ, the Patriots they tend to keep their defenders out on the field alot and with that comes an abundance of snaps and more chances of opportunity to make plays.
6. Those grading Irvin a failure in 2013 solely based on his lack of pass-rush production obviously fail to realize that his opportunities were squandered by more experienced, more dynamic pass-rushers in Avril and Bennett. As well as fail to realize Dan Quinn's vision for this defense. Irvin's role wasnt to be a production whore to appease his draft position. It was to set the strongside edge, protect the flat/erase the RB, occupy blockers so the MLB and WLB can clean up. Obviously, Irvin wasnt great... his run defense is still his biggest weakness... shed blocking, pursuit angles, and instincts in particular the but that comes with experience but I felt he did improve from the run defender he was in 2012 and in college. Irvin also had solid to good grades when asked to pass-rush and drop back into coverage. Overall, the kid was solid and he made huge strides for himself in becoming an all-around player.

Was he worth the 15th overall pick ? So far compared to his other peers , he hasnt been some major disappointment like some want to paint him. Unlike some of his peers, hes not a bust, hes been a contributing member of two of the best teams in Seahawks history in 2012 and 2013. And unlike some of his peers, Irvin was the rawest pass-rusher possibly one of the rawest players in his class, and still has tremendous amount of upside and potential to tap into. People need ti get over thier personal vendetta against him and realize every player progresses at thier own rate. As long as the team is happy with the progress of thier players that should be enough.

Its not like we didn't just win a Superbowl with all these guys contributing in some way or another that some of you guys love to talk trash about every day. No merit, no respect what so ever for the men who put in all the work on the field, blood, sweat, pain to bring a Championship to Seattle.

And all some of you can do is talk about how much someone sucks because that player didnt live up to your oh so lofty expectations. So much awesome sauce from this fanbase

The problem is the "worth his draft spot" is a myth. There is no and probably never will be a chart that shows what production should be expected from a player taken in a specific spot. Until there is, all of these arguments are completely invalid. Irvin in 2013 lacked splash plays, so you get people who didn't notice him enough. Not being noticed enough is not worth a first round pick for some people. Malcolm Smith had splash plays because other teams tried to exploit him and Smith made them pay in some instances. You know what Irvin didn't do in 2013? He didn't get exploited by opposing offenses. For a player that was learning a new position, that is very good.

All this talk about his "not being worth the 15th pick," is ridiculous. It's a sunk cost and entirely irrelevant at this point in time.
Fact is 50% of first rounders don't pan out, Go look back at that class look at the players picked ahead and just behind him. Quite a few have done much less than Irvin. Fletcher Cox, Shea Mcclellin (sucks), Melvin Ingram (injured IIRC), Quinton Coples none of these guys have done better.

People get too caught up on the round a player was picked in. It really doesn't matter. The % of success is obviously highest in the 1st round, but if you get playmakers elsewhere what does it matter? You can hardly penalize Irvin for the teams depth.

What I find unbelievable from the "media experts" they ridiculed Seattle for taking Irvin 15th, nevermind the fact that we traded back and picked up extra players in the move. The very next year there were a string of DE/OLB take MUCH higher than Irvin with far smaller production at college and the media didn't say a word. Dion Jordan (sucks) taken 3rd overall, Ansah @ 5th overall( had a similar season to Irvin's rookie year) and Mingo @6th overall.

Finally, with the new CBA and financial terms, it's not so detrimental if a teams "misses" on a 1st round pick. Clowney's deal this year is 4 years 22 million-- roughly 5.5/ year. That's not breaking the bank. The 15th pick this year total contract is under 10 million. So Irvin's contract isn't really a big deal (his was 4 years just over 9.3 million total).

I like what I've seen from Irvin, I'm hopeful we'll see him take that next step this year playing SAM on early downs and rushing the passer in passing situations. I think he could be a very special player.

rehashing his draft value is pointless, the cost is sunk.

His role vs his athleticism and talent is sure a difficult one to get me head around though. I think he has the athleticism to cover any TE in the league one on one. But his role is to cover a zone a few yards off the LOS. He has amazing pass rushing speed, but doesn't seem to want to physically attack anyone, and if a tackle gets hands on him, he is pretty much done. When he diagnoses a running play before the snap, he can devastate the play in the first second, and did exactly that several times last year, but if he has to control a gap he can get pushed around by a tight end.

Hearing that he may miss time is only a nuisance. It makes solidifying 53 kind of tough. Some of last season's first half defensive difficulties were tied to injured players coming back and having to figure out their roles mid season, IMO. If Irvin has the same role as last year, it will be fairly simple to plug him in, but if they were hoping to expand his duties this year, I don't see how that will happen easily now.

General Manager":hl10q4tx said:

Meeker":hl10q4tx said:

Irvin had a promising rookie and sophomore season and may miss some TC time and your criticizing the pick?

Click to expand...

He had a promising rookie season but that's it in fact they changed his position and he can't even elevate himself over Malcolm Smith my question to you is was he worth the 15th pick.

Click to expand...

Irvin and Smith don't even play the same role, so I'm not sure why your comparing them, not to mention that Smith played his specific role as well as anyone in the NFL last season.

And I misspoke in my first post, meant to add more...your criticizing JS in the first round? He has a total of 4 first rounders:

A complete homerun with Earl Thomas
A would be homerun if not for health in Russell Okung
A bust in James Carpenter (even if he breaks out, he will move on to another team IMO, making him a bust for Seattle regardless)
And a, so far, solid player in Bruce Irvin who should get more snaps showcasing his most valuable asset next season...pass rushing.

I just don't get how you can criticize that, are you expecting every first rounder to be a homerun? Sorry, that's never going to happen.

Lets say Irvin plays a solid to good SLB on early downs (which I think he already did last season) and puts up 5+ sacks as a pass rush specialist...not exactly a boom, but thats certainly not a bust. He gives us versatility on our D, which is valuable and gives you roster flexibility.

It's really about potential vs. production.

Irvin has all the potential in the world. With his physical skill set, he could be one of the very best at his position in the league. Like Scotte mentioned, he can cover an TE in the league. He has coverage skills, as he used to play Safety.

As for production, his rookie year was in no way a bust, and many draft "experts" that had critsized the pick claimed that Irvin was worth the pick after all. Then we got really deep at that outside rush end position and they moved Irvin. It's easy for me to look at: Irvin never played LB...not in high school or college. Add that to the fact that he wasn't really coached up in college either. The coaching staff knew he was raw.

People also look at things a bit backwards at times. The didn't move Irvin because he failed at the LEO spot, they moved Irvin because Malcom Smith hadn't really shown consistent production at his spot either and they didn't know what they had there (that and the aforementioned depth at the end spot). The fact is, Irvin never played a down of LBer, yet he went out and didn't embarrass himself at the NFL level. That's saying a lot. Guys who were top picks like Curry and Rolando McClain DID embarrass themselvs at the NFL level. Both picks were lauded at the most NFL ready guys at their position, and didn't do as well as Irvin his first time out.

It's disappointing that he might miss TC; that's probably going to sink his chances of starting this year, especially now that Smith is a proven producer and we have a sick deep roster at the spot. I'm still not going to moan about the draft pick though.

BASF":33wdqquz said:

The problem is the "worth his draft spot" is a myth. There is no and probably never will be a chart that shows what production should be expected from a player taken in a specific spot. Until there is, all of these arguments are completely invalid. Irvin in 2013 lacked splash plays, so you get people who didn't notice him enough. Not being noticed enough is not worth a first round pick for some people. Malcolm Smith had splash plays because other teams tried to exploit him and Smith made them pay in some instances. You know what Irvin didn't do in 2013? He didn't get exploited by opposing offenses. For a player that was learning a new position, that is very good.

Click to expand...

Irving didn't completely lack for Splash plays. Go watch the @STL game. If he played like that for a full season, he would be the best LB in the league. Going off my memory, he had 9 tackles, INT, Sack and a FF. 2 of those plays were ridiculous. ET adjusted his position pre-snap and he dropped into coverage on the TE and picked off Clemens. On the sack/FF he chased down Clemens across the whole width of the field to strip the ball out of his hands as he was throwing it. There aren't many players in the league who could make that play.

If this Bruce shows up for even 7-8 games this year, he's a stud LB.

General Manager":1pbbqrry said:

City Of Reign":1pbbqrry said:

General Manager":1pbbqrry said:

Throwdown":1pbbqrry said:

Yes he was.

Click to expand...

I disagree .

Click to expand...

Good, then I'm very glad you're not our GM

Click to expand...

I would say that about every member of this board . Thanks for the off topic comment.

Click to expand...

I'm offended. I'd make an excellent GM. I'd hire John Schneider as my intern and make him do all the work.

Let's face it, as the prototypical first round defensive pick, Irvin has no wowed. And I say that in the sense that he has not been JJ Watt, Luke Keuchly or Robert Quinn straight out the gate. But is that fair? We never asked him to shoulder the load of those guys. We asked him to be a cog in a well oiled defensive machine, and he did that perfectly his rookie year. Then, we move him. Do you have any idea what that does to a guy? First, get settled from college to the NFL. Good, you did that well. Now we're moving you again.

The thing is no, on a normal team Irvin would not be playing up to par for a 1st round draft pick. But there are a WHOLE lot of first rounders out there doing far worse. And at the moment, he's doing what we ask, so is he really doing anything wrong? If he doesn't elevate his game this year at the same position, then we can talk about letting him go, but right now, it's not costing us more, it's not hurting us, so, uh, if it ain't broke don't fix it