Russell Wilson and Steve McNair

Brahn

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Was in a debate with another football fan over Wilson being a "Game Manager" while looking for the obvious data I needed I decided to take a look at other QBs in the past and one in particular caught my eye. A QB I loved growing up because he seemed to defy all odds by playing even better each time he returned from an injury. I am talking of the great {in my eyes} Steve McNair. Many people forget he shared the MVP with Manning one season. I decided to check that season of McNair's and found a crazy comparison between McNairs MVP season (his 9th in the league) and another QB.


Closest QB Comparison
2003 Steve McNair - 400 Attempts 250 Comps 62.5% COMP 3,215 Yards 24TDs 7INTS 8.04YPC 100.4 QBR

2013 Russ Wilson - 407 Attempts 257 Comps 63.1% COMP 3,357 Yards 26TDs 9INTS 8.25YPC 101.2 QBR

We currently have the bigger play version of a 9th year vet MVP Steve Mcnair.
 

SNDavidson

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We have Mcnair +best the NFL has ever seen play extension +Brett Favre improvisation +Tom Brady ice in the veins clutchness
 

Anthony!

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Brahn":138s8s0i said:
Was in a debate with another football fan over Wilson being a "Game Manager" while looking for the obvious data I needed I decided to take a look at other QBs in the past and one in particular caught my eye. A QB I loved growing up because he seemed to defy all odds by playing even better each time he returned from an injury. I am talking of the great {in my eyes} Steve McNair. Many people forget he shared the MVP with Manning one season. I decided to check that season of McNair's and found a crazy comparison between McNairs MVP season (his 9th in the league) and another QB.


Closest QB Comparison
2003 Steve McNair - 400 Attempts 250 Comps 62.5% COMP 3,215 Yards 24TDs 7INTS 8.04YPC 100.4 QBR

2013 Russ Wilson - 407 Attempts 257 Comps 63.1% COMP 3,357 Yards 26TDs 9INTS 8.25YPC 101.2 QBR

We currently have the bigger play version of a 9th year vet MVP Steve Mcnair.


you can take it a step further if you want Below are the yearly avg for 3 HOF Elite QBs

Yards Comp% YPA TDs INTs QB rating
Montana 2703 63.2 7.5 18 9 92.3
Aikman 2745 61.5 7 14 12 81.6
Young S. 2208 64.3 8 15 7 96.8

as you can see RW is ahead in most everything
 
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Brahn

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Anthony!":za9igw5w said:
Brahn":za9igw5w said:
Was in a debate with another football fan over Wilson being a "Game Manager" while looking for the obvious data I needed I decided to take a look at other QBs in the past and one in particular caught my eye. A QB I loved growing up because he seemed to defy all odds by playing even better each time he returned from an injury. I am talking of the great {in my eyes} Steve McNair. Many people forget he shared the MVP with Manning one season. I decided to check that season of McNair's and found a crazy comparison between McNairs MVP season (his 9th in the league) and another QB.


Closest QB Comparison
2003 Steve McNair - 400 Attempts 250 Comps 62.5% COMP 3,215 Yards 24TDs 7INTS 8.04YPC 100.4 QBR

2013 Russ Wilson - 407 Attempts 257 Comps 63.1% COMP 3,357 Yards 26TDs 9INTS 8.25YPC 101.2 QBR

We currently have the bigger play version of a 9th year vet MVP Steve Mcnair.


you can take it a step further if you want Below are the yearly avg for 3 HOF Elite QBs

Yards Comp% YPA TDs INTs QB rating
Montana 2703 63.2 7.5 18 9 92.3
Aikman 2745 61.5 7 14 12 81.6
Young S. 2208 64.3 8 15 7 96.8

as you can see RW is ahead in most everything

I like these averages. I just liked the fact McNair won the MVP with fewer numbers and was considered a "Gamer" "Leader" "Professional", Wilson does it better and is a "Game Manager" sure the style of Football has changed in 10 years. But not enough to take away from what makes them Elite QBs.

Also I could do the research but maybe you already have it. What was the Yards Per Completion like for those 3?
 

Tical21

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If I remember correctly, the single biggest contributing factor to the lore of Steve McNair and the MVP trophy he earned was how successful he was despite the list of injuries that he always seemed to have. He rarely slid or went out of bounds. He stood in and took shots instead of rolling out and throwing the ball away. Stupid? I dunno. Should he be rewarded for that? I dunno. But it was pretty impressive to watch.
 

ImTheScientist

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Not to rain on the parade but the NFL today is much different than the NFL Of 2003.
 

Sac

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ImTheScientist":auhwmdiz said:
Not to rain on the parade but the NFL today is much different than the NFL Of 2003.
Not really. It's not like 2003 was the 70's.
 

Russ Willstrong

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Steve McNair was a high draft pick who was 6'3" 240lbs with an excellent arm and could run tough. He earned millions in salary and endorsements even before those breakthrough seasons. RW is obviously not a high pick and has been stereotyped early on as small and weak-armed by some experts who barely follow him. He is changing false perceptions of him. Wilson's time will come when he gets his big payday.
 

ImTheScientist

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SacHawk2.0":2fod96xy said:
ImTheScientist":2fod96xy said:
Not to rain on the parade but the NFL today is much different than the NFL Of 2003.
Not really. It's not like 2003 was the 70's.

2013 Leaders
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/y ... eaders.htm

2003 Leaders
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/y ... eaders.htm

Look at those lists .... not sure you can say they are even close to similar. Manning lead in passing with 4,267 yards....he would have finished 9th (almost 10th) last year with that same number. Wilson's 26 TDs would have ranked him 3rd in the NFL in 2003. In 2003 only one QB had a passer raiting of over 100. In 2013 7 did.

Im likely one of the biggest Wilson fan's on this forum and have been since before he was even drafted but Im not sure I would make that comparison.
http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/in ... +%2Bwilson
 

Anthony!

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Brahn":12qxgcvo said:
Anthony!":12qxgcvo said:
Brahn":12qxgcvo said:
Was in a debate with another football fan over Wilson being a "Game Manager" while looking for the obvious data I needed I decided to take a look at other QBs in the past and one in particular caught my eye. A QB I loved growing up because he seemed to defy all odds by playing even better each time he returned from an injury. I am talking of the great {in my eyes} Steve McNair. Many people forget he shared the MVP with Manning one season. I decided to check that season of McNair's and found a crazy comparison between McNairs MVP season (his 9th in the league) and another QB.


Closest QB Comparison
2003 Steve McNair - 400 Attempts 250 Comps 62.5% COMP 3,215 Yards 24TDs 7INTS 8.04YPC 100.4 QBR

2013 Russ Wilson - 407 Attempts 257 Comps 63.1% COMP 3,357 Yards 26TDs 9INTS 8.25YPC 101.2 QBR

We currently have the bigger play version of a 9th year vet MVP Steve Mcnair.


you can take it a step further if you want Below are the yearly avg for 3 HOF Elite QBs

Yards Comp% YPA TDs INTs QB rating
Montana 2703 63.2 7.5 18 9 92.3
Aikman 2745 61.5 7 14 12 81.6
Young S. 2208 64.3 8 15 7 96.8

as you can see RW is ahead in most everything

I like these averages. I just liked the fact McNair won the MVP with fewer numbers and was considered a "Gamer" "Leader" "Professional", Wilson does it better and is a "Game Manager" sure the style of Football has changed in 10 years. But not enough to take away from what makes them Elite QBs.

Also I could do the research but maybe you already have it. What was the Yards Per Completion like for those 3?

Montana 11.9
Young 12.4
Aikman 11.4
RW 12.7
 

Anthony!

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ImTheScientist":12q5w03j said:
SacHawk2.0":12q5w03j said:
ImTheScientist":12q5w03j said:
Not to rain on the parade but the NFL today is much different than the NFL Of 2003.
Not really. It's not like 2003 was the 70's.

2013 Leaders
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/y ... eaders.htm

2003 Leaders
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/y ... eaders.htm

Look at those lists .... not sure you can say they are even close to similar. Manning lead in passing with 4,267 yards....he would have finished 9th (almost 10th) last year with that same number. Wilson's 26 TDs would have ranked him 3rd in the NFL in 2003. In 2003 only one QB had a passer raiting of over 100. In 2013 7 did.

Im likely one of the biggest Wilson fan's on this forum and have been since before he was even drafted but Im not sure I would make that comparison.
http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/in ... +%2Bwilson


Except even compared with today Rw is an Elite top 10 QB, the point was even today those QBs are considered Elite and yet their stats are not even close to RWs.

Maybe this will help for today qbs mind you I did not do this someone else did but it is pretty good and the stats are right and these are based on career numbers or avg per season


Completion Percentage

1) Manning = 65.5%
2) Wilson = 63.6%
3) Brady = 63.4%
4) Luck = 57%

Yards Per Pass Attempt

1) Wilson = 8.1
2) Manning = 7.7
3) Brady = 7.5
4) Luck = 6.8

Passer Rating

1) Wilson = 100.6
2) Manning = 97.2
3) Brady = 95.7
4) Luck = 81.5

Touchdown/Interception Ratio

1) Wilson = 2.74
2) Brady = 2.7
3) Manning = 2.24
4) Luck = 1.7

Passing Touchdowns Per Season Average

1) Manning = 30.69
2) Wilson = 26
3) Brady = 25.64
4) Luck = 23

Passing Yards Per Season Average

1) Luck = 4098
2) Manning = 4059
3) Brady = 3510
4) Wilson = 3238

Rushing Yards Per Season Average

1) Wilson = 514
2) Luck = 316
3) Brady = 55
4) Manning = 44

Passing + Rushing Yards Per Game Average

1) Luck = 276
2) Manning = 257
3) Wilson = 234
4) Brady = 222

Career Win %

1) Brady = 76.5%
2) Wilson = 75.7%
3) Manning = 67.7%
4) Luck = 65.7%

Total Super Bowl Wins

1) Brady = 3
2) Wilson = 1
3) Manning = 1
4) Luck = 0

Super Bowl Win %

1) Wilson = 100%
2) Brady = 60%
3) Manning = 33%
4) Luck = N/A

Super Bowl Wins Per Season%

1) Wilson = 50%
2) Brady = 21.4%
3) Manning = 6.25%
4) Luck = 0%


TOTAL 1ST PLACE RANKINGS:

1) Wilson = 6
2) Brady = 2
3) Manning = 2
4) Luck = 2

TOTAL 2ND PLACE RANKINGS:

1) Wilson = 4
2) Manning = 4
3) Brady = 3
4) Luck = 1

TOTAL 3RD PLACE RANKINGS:

1) Brady = 6
2) Manning = 5
3) Wilson = 1
4) Luck = 0

TOTAL 4TH PLACE RANKINGS:

1) Luck = 9
2) Wilson = 1
3) Brady = 1
4) Manning = 1


CONCLUSION:

When comparing all 4 of these QB's Wilson appears to be the best so far.

If we apply the scientifically fool-proof scoring system used in Mario Kart for the Super Nintendo the scoring would be as follows:

1st Place = 9 Points
2nd Place = 6 Points
3rd Place = 3 Points
4th Place = 1 Point

FINAL RANKINGS:

1) Wilson = 82 Points
2) Manning = 58 Points
3) Brady = 55 Points
4) Luck = 33 Points
 

General Manager

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Anthony!":29ummb5u said:
ImTheScientist":29ummb5u said:
SacHawk2.0":29ummb5u said:
ImTheScientist":29ummb5u said:
Not to rain on the parade but the NFL today is much different than the NFL Of 2003.
Not really. It's not like 2003 was the 70's.

2013 Leaders
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/y ... eaders.htm

2003 Leaders
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/y ... eaders.htm

Look at those lists .... not sure you can say they are even close to similar. Manning lead in passing with 4,267 yards....he would have finished 9th (almost 10th) last year with that same number. Wilson's 26 TDs would have ranked him 3rd in the NFL in 2003. In 2003 only one QB had a passer raiting of over 100. In 2013 7 did.

Im likely one of the biggest Wilson fan's on this forum and have been since before he was even drafted but Im not sure I would make that comparison.
http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/in ... +%2Bwilson


Except even compared with today Rw is an Elite top 10 QB, the point was even today those QBs are considered Elite and yet their stats are not even close to RWs.

Maybe this will help for today qbs mind you I did not do this someone else did but it is pretty good and the stats are right and these are based on career numbers or avg per season


Completion Percentage

1) Manning = 65.5%
2) Wilson = 63.6%
3) Brady = 63.4%
4) Luck = 57%

Yards Per Pass Attempt

1) Wilson = 8.1
2) Manning = 7.7
3) Brady = 7.5
4) Luck = 6.8

Passer Rating

1) Wilson = 100.6
2) Manning = 97.2
3) Brady = 95.7
4) Luck = 81.5

Touchdown/Interception Ratio

1) Wilson = 2.74
2) Brady = 2.7
3) Manning = 2.24
4) Luck = 1.7

Passing Touchdowns Per Season Average

1) Manning = 30.69
2) Wilson = 26
3) Brady = 25.64
4) Luck = 23

Passing Yards Per Season Average

1) Luck = 4098
2) Manning = 4059
3) Brady = 3510
4) Wilson = 3238

Rushing Yards Per Season Average

1) Wilson = 514
2) Luck = 316
3) Brady = 55
4) Manning = 44

Passing + Rushing Yards Per Game Average

1) Luck = 276
2) Manning = 257
3) Wilson = 234
4) Brady = 222

Career Win %

1) Brady = 76.5%
2) Wilson = 75.7%
3) Manning = 67.7%
4) Luck = 65.7%

Total Super Bowl Wins

1) Brady = 3
2) Wilson = 1
3) Manning = 1
4) Luck = 0

Super Bowl Win %

1) Wilson = 100%
2) Brady = 60%
3) Manning = 33%
4) Luck = N/A

Super Bowl Wins Per Season%

1) Wilson = 50%
2) Brady = 21.4%
3) Manning = 6.25%
4) Luck = 0%


TOTAL 1ST PLACE RANKINGS:

1) Wilson = 6
2) Brady = 2
3) Manning = 2
4) Luck = 2

TOTAL 2ND PLACE RANKINGS:

1) Wilson = 4
2) Manning = 4
3) Brady = 3
4) Luck = 1

TOTAL 3RD PLACE RANKINGS:

1) Brady = 6
2) Manning = 5
3) Wilson = 1
4) Luck = 0

TOTAL 4TH PLACE RANKINGS:

1) Luck = 9
2) Wilson = 1
3) Brady = 1
4) Manning = 1


CONCLUSION:

When comparing all 4 of these QB's Wilson appears to be the best so far.

If we apply the scientifically fool-proof scoring system used in Mario Kart for the Super Nintendo the scoring would be as follows:

1st Place = 9 Points
2nd Place = 6 Points
3rd Place = 3 Points
4th Place = 1 Point

FINAL RANKINGS:

1) Wilson = 82 Points
2) Manning = 58 Points
3) Brady = 55 Points
4) Luck = 33 Points

I find the whole game manager argument amusing because I've looked at those numbers and seen him play ,it's just a flat out fact that Wilson is an elite QB as of right now. Unless your one of those guys that wants to throw out every stat except passing yards per game to support your delusion . That's most of ESPN unfortunately and it makes one wonder why they choose to do that.
 

Scottemojo

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McNair was a tough Sumbish. Like Tarvaris with more ability.

I like to compare Russ to Big Ben. Both drag plays out. Both make their line look bad sometimes. Both look for the biggest play when things break down. Russ is faster and more elusive, Ben sheds sacks with size not elusiveness, but the pressure they put on a secondary to cover for longer than is really possible is similar. Rodgers has some of those same traits, while being a bit more fragile.
 

Anthony!

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General Manager":7vxcdbrx said:
I find the whole game manager argument amusing because I've looked at those numbers and seen him play ,it's just a flat out fact that Wilson is an elite QB as of right now. Unless your one of those guys that wants to throw out every stat except passing yards per game to support your delusion . That's most of ESPN unfortunately and it makes one wonder why they choose to do that.

They choose to do that because most of them said Rw was a career Back up that no QB under 6 foot cold succeed, and especially one drafted in the 3rd round. So using only yards allows them to think what they want without making it sound like nothing but a height issue. However that is changing more and more "experts" are starting to change. Heck Peter King was on KJR today and said he had the Hawks #1 over GB, Denver, and Sf and the main reason....the QB in other words RW, so it is changing, one more good season should do it.
 
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