Bronco's board Luck vs. Wilson debate

http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthr ... -or-Wilson!

Interesting to see other fan's take on this oft mentioned debate. Pretty much plays out like you expect, with pretty much everyone backing Luck. Honestly I would have thought the Bronco's fans would be a little bit higher on Wilson as they saw him shred their D first hand, but it isn't so.

There is one guy supporting Wilson (Seahawks fan?). Maybe I'm just biased but he's been making the best argument.

Side note: are we more open to advanced football metrics than other fanbases? These Donkey fans really don't trust 'em it seems.

He's too short! (That seems to be the entire basis of their arguments).

A QB as short as Wilson will be able to be a full time starter and will never be able to win in the NFL...the media told me so

Trrrroy":2azq0pd8 said:

http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?232077-Luck-or-Wilson!

Interesting to see other fan's take on this oft mentioned debate. Pretty much plays out like you expect, with pretty much everyone backing Luck. Honestly I would have thought the Bronco's fans would be a little bit higher on Wilson as they saw him shred their D first hand, but it isn't so.

There is one guy supporting Wilson (Seahawks fan?). Maybe I'm just biased but he's been making the best argument.

Side note: are we more open to advanced football metrics than other fanbases? These Donkey fans really don't trust 'em it seems.

Click to expand...

Any time there is a Luck vs Wilson debate the Luck supporters hate the use of any kind of stats or metrics because they lose that argument every time. Their whole argument is based on appeals to authority (NFL execs prefer Luck), logical fallacies (Dilfer won a SB with a great defense therefore Wilson = Dilfer), vague assertions (Luck "carries" his team, Wilson is a "game manager"), and unprovable imaginary scenarios in an alternate universe (Luck would win the SB with the Seahawks, Wilson would fail with the Colts).

If real world stats and metrics supported their case for Luck you can bet they would be using them.

If all the stats, metrics & accomplishments for both QB's were switched, there would be no debate. Nobody would be comparing the two. Because Wilson would be little better than an average QB and Luck would be the next GOAT.

But because all the stats, metrics & accomplishments are as they are, and RW justs keeps piling them on and Luck continues to be slightly better than an average QB... it continues to force the experts (and Seahawk haters alike) to argue their justifications for their love affair with Andrew... this "debate" will probably rage on right through RW's HOF induction.

As an outsider on this issue, I want to see more from both before I say one is better than the other. On the one hand you have a qb (Wilson) who has one of the best backs in the game keeping defenses honest. On the other you have a qb (Luck) who has less talent around him (no rb like Lynch, but receivers on par with Seattle's).

I don't agree with the talking heads that are rushing to put Luck in the conversation as an elite qb. They tried the same thing with Kaep in SF last year, and we all saw how that mess played out.

I didn't even bother to read it.

Broncos fans are the new Cowboys fans; the dumbest fans in all the league. Seriously.

You read anything before the SB, and the majority of them had the Broncos crushing us. We couldn't score on their defense, they dominated defensively the entire playoffs, etc. It wasn't going to be close and we didn't stand a chance.

Then all you get is whining afterwords. "Oh, this would be a different game ,but we had soooo many injuries". "If we had Clady back, they would never get to Manning" etc. Seriously, where were the injuries before the game when they were going to crush us?

Russ could win 5 super bowls, but as long as he has guys like Lynch, Sherman and Kam on his team he will never be considered the QB he is because he didn't do it single handed. It's a strange phenomenon with many fans, that a QB has to throw for 350 yards a game to be considered elite, even if he doesn't win games.

Broncos fans should be more concerned about going back to the Tebow/Osweiler days in a year or two when grandpa Manning can't get out bed in the morning anymore.

AbsolutNET":2uyssb0o said:

Russ could win 5 super bowls, but as long as he has guys like Lynch, Sherman and Kam on his team he will never be considered the QB he is because he didn't do it single handed. It's a strange phenomenon with many fans, that a QB has to throw for 350 yards a game to be considered elite, even if he doesn't win games.

Click to expand...

I don't think that it's so much that as it is, a difference of opinion. If you are going by stats then Luck is your guy (much like Manning or Marino are your guy over Tom Brady). If you are going for a winner you go with Wilson or Brady over the Luck's, Manning's and Marino's, but you also have to accept with it that Wilson and Brady have more complete teams around them than Luck, Marino, and Manning, and football (unlike basketball) is a team sport, and it takes all 52 guys to win a title (something you guys are more than aware of as you just won a Super Bowl).

AbsolutNET":r7i84vol said:

Russ could win 5 super bowls, but as long as he has guys like Lynch, Sherman and Kam on his team he will never be considered the QB he is because he didn't do it single handed. It's a strange phenomenon with many fans, that a QB has to throw for 350 yards a game to be considered elite, even if he doesn't win games.

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You mean the Romo Syndrome.

AbsolutNET":1ufy081i said:

Russ could win 5 super bowls, but as long as he has guys like Lynch, Sherman and Kam on his team he will never be considered the QB he is because he didn't do it single handed. It's a strange phenomenon with many fans, that a QB has to throw for 350 yards a game to be considered elite, even if he doesn't win games.

Click to expand...

THIS is what fantasy football has done to the reality of football.

It seems that every time other teams asses us they contradict themselves. It usually goes like this:

Wilson is at best a game manager , anyone would be good with that running game!

Harvin is great but he's going to be injured by week three

Receivers are not even good, the running game helps them get open

Lynch can still run but he's getting old, will start to decline

Offense recap: their offense isn't even that good our defense just played badly.

LOB wouldn't be so elite if the didn't hold every play

Run d is soft if we run the right plays

Maxwell is a slouch, he will get beat all the time.

Sherman is only good because he plays zone.

D-line sometimes generates no pass rush (actually a bit true sometimes)

And then at the end they say The hawks are the most dominant team, which really confuses me because they just made all of these arguments against that.............

We could have a debate probably still today over who was better: Dan Marino or Joe Montana. When I was younger and earlier in their career, I probably would have gone with Marino. After a while, though, the wins and the rings just become too much to argue against.

Heck, you could even say the same thing of Peyton and Brady.

I think the same will happen with Luck and Wilson.

Trrrroy":266ppa3c said:

http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?232077-Luck-or-Wilson!

Interesting to see other fan's take on this oft mentioned debate. Pretty much plays out like you expect, with pretty much everyone backing Luck. Honestly I would have thought the Bronco's fans would be a little bit higher on Wilson as they saw him shred their D first hand, but it isn't so.

There is one guy supporting Wilson (Seahawks fan?). Maybe I'm just biased but he's been making the best argument.

Side note: are we more open to advanced football metrics than other fanbases? These Donkey fans really don't trust 'em it seems.

Click to expand...

El Caliente":1efsbadg said:

AbsolutNET":1efsbadg said:

Russ could win 5 super bowls, but as long as he has guys like Lynch, Sherman and Kam on his team he will never be considered the QB he is because he didn't do it single handed. It's a strange phenomenon with many fans, that a QB has to throw for 350 yards a game to be considered elite, even if he doesn't win games.

Click to expand...

I don't think that it's so much that as it is, a difference of opinion. If you are going by stats then Luck is your guy (much like Manning or Marino are your guy over Tom Brady). If you are going for a winner you go with Wilson or Brady over the Luck's, Manning's and Marino's, but you also have to accept with it that Wilson and Brady have more complete teams around them than Luck, Marino, and Manning, and football (unlike basketball) is a team sport, and it takes all 52 guys to win a title (something you guys are more than aware of as you just won a Super Bowl).

Click to expand...

Except nearly every stat in existence favors Wilson over Luck with the exception of yards? The bolded confuses me.

Milehighhawk":1r20t216 said:

El Caliente":1r20t216 said:

AbsolutNET":1r20t216 said:

Russ could win 5 super bowls, but as long as he has guys like Lynch, Sherman and Kam on his team he will never be considered the QB he is because he didn't do it single handed. It's a strange phenomenon with many fans, that a QB has to throw for 350 yards a game to be considered elite, even if he doesn't win games.

Click to expand...

I don't think that it's so much that as it is, a difference of opinion. If you are going by stats then Luck is your guy (much like Manning or Marino are your guy over Tom Brady). If you are going for a winner you go with Wilson or Brady over the Luck's, Manning's and Marino's, but you also have to accept with it that Wilson and Brady have more complete teams around them than Luck, Marino, and Manning, and football (unlike basketball) is a team sport, and it takes all 52 guys to win a title (something you guys are more than aware of as you just won a Super Bowl).

Click to expand...

Except nearly every stat in existence favors Wilson over Luck with the exception of yards? The bolded confuses me.

Click to expand...

You are correct. I assumed that Luck had better stats based on the type of system he plays in. So Wilson is not just good, he is sneaky good.

I don't care if someone picks Luck over Wilson nothing wrong with that.

but that thread is full of a lot of stupid. Much too long to read it all, it was mind numbing.

Why do we care so much about Andrew Luck? Honest question.

He's not in the division. He's not even in the same conference. He's a great player. Does ESPN and co overrate him? Probably.. but that doesn't diminish the fact he absolutely is a very talented quarterback.

I just .. never understand this debate. Luck's great. Wilson's great. The end.

Hawks46":1o7mohs5 said:

I didn't even bother to read it.

Broncos fans are the new Cowboys fans; the dumbest fans in all the league. Seriously.

You read anything before the SB, and the majority of them had the Broncos crushing us. We couldn't score on their defense, they dominated defensively the entire playoffs, etc. It wasn't going to be close and we didn't stand a chance.

Then all you get is whining afterwords. "Oh, this would be a different game ,but we had soooo many injuries". "If we had Clady back, they would never get to Manning" etc. Seriously, where were the injuries before the game when they were going to crush us?

Click to expand...

I read a lot of forums and you got this right.


Based completely upon reading forums:

It isn't just Kool Aid. Every forum has a lot of Kool Aid. It is simply basic football knowledge. The Denver fans appear to be the least knowledgeable fans about basic football that I have seen.

Maybe it is because football is king in the SEC and in the state of Texas, but I think fans from those regions are typically very knowledgeable with the exception of Saints fans who appear to be carbon copies of Niner fans (Ultimate whiners).

The Philadelphia and New York fans appear to be insightful. The Patriot fans seem to be knowledgeable.

Denver forums?
Those folks are just clueless about football. Perhaps the best definition of a bandwagon fan.

Well, Wilson has better players around him, which somehow magically means that he can't be as good as luck...:/