Run Defense - better than we thought

HansGruber · Sep 5, 2014

So how about that run defense? That was the surprise of the game for me.

After all this talk about how losing Clemons and Bryant would ruin our run defense, it was fun watching how Quinn overcame that. Very interesting how they used the LBs out on the edge to stop the run. Wagner and Smith are beasts. We really see where that extra size at LB that Carroll loves really played to our advantage. Also, it was great seeing Kam and Sherman making plays against the run.

I don't think we'll really miss Bryant all that much. The Seattle Run Defense actually looks to have improved, thanks to some cool and interesting schemes by Quinn, and some great playmaking by newcomers like Williams and Marsh, and the inventive use of our LBs.

Thoughts?

Sarlacc83 · Sep 5, 2014

Having Irvin, Wagner, and Smith healthy makes all the difference in the world. I also thought Seattle did the wise thing of not over pursuing the pass rush until late in the game - trusting in the secondary to pick up the slack - and thus relying on run defense first and foremost.

BamKam · Sep 5, 2014

Wasn't worried because our LB corps is elite and our defensive line gained what we lost.

jlwaters1 · Sep 5, 2014

I don't get all the worry about the run defense. Or the DL concerns in general. Clemmons wasn't nearly as effective as he was in 2012. he had 4.5 sacks. IIRC Bryant played roughly 25% of the defensive plays. I think both guys are replaceable and having Bennett and Avril with a year of experience in the system I see them as being better and adding Williams and resigning McDaniels I think this DL has a chance to be better.

Last year we were 7th against the run average 101 yard/game, or 3.9 YPC

Yesterday against the Packers had 80 yards, 3.8 YPC. The Packer's wanted to run the ball down our throats and they did that for much of the first half. They also were bragging (before the game) that their OL was much improved,

they wanted to be a physical running team and were completely shut down. Last year Carolina ran for 134 yards with a 5.2 YPC.

HansGruber · Sep 5, 2014

jlwaters1":377fcosk said:
I don't get all the worry about the run defense. Or the DL concerns in general. Clemmons wasn't nearly as effective as he was in 2012. he had 4.5 sacks. IIRC Bryant played roughly 25% of the defensive plays. I think both guys are replaceable and having Bennett and Avril with a year of experience in the system I see them as being better and adding Williams and resigning McDaniels I think this DL has a chance to be better.

Last year we were 7th against the run average 101 yard/game, or 3.9 YPC

Yesterday against the Packers had 80 yards, 3.8 YPC. The Packer's wanted to run the ball down our throats and they did that for much of the first half. They also were bragging (before the game) that their OL was much improved,

they wanted to be a physical running team and were completely shut down. Last year Carolina ran for 134 yards with a 5.2 YPC.

I agree with your post, except the part about Bryant only playing in 25% of snaps. He played 40-45% of the snaps according to multiple sources I've read/heard. Still not enough to justify paying him what he got from Jacksonville, but he was an awesome dude, and I'm rooting for him in Jacksonville (and the rest of the Jags).

And yeah, the run defense does look greatly improved. Hill, Marsh, Wagner, Smith, and Williams all appeared to play roles. Instead of seeing a run stopped by one of the DTs, it was most often the gang-tackling of a group of the above players. And they looked good. Real aggressive, like they wanted to hurt someone.

I think run defense will be a strong point this season and am stoked to see improvement when most were expecting a decline.

Sgt. Largent · Sep 5, 2014

Eh, they were a little shaky in the first quarter, and hard to tell because two of GB's best lineman went out along with already starting a rookie center.

So yeah Lacy only had like 40 yards before he went out with a concussion, but I'll reserve my judgement on the interior run defense until we do it on the road against a decent run team.

TwistedHusky · Sep 5, 2014

To be fair, as other posters have pointed out, the run defense did not really clamp down until the GB OL turned into shambles.

To also be fair, part of the reason the line was in shambles was because it looked like one of our defensive linemen (Avril?) picked up one of the Packers and beat one of the offensive linemen on the head with him.

HansGruber · Sep 5, 2014

TwistedHusky":2k8m1iwu said:
To be fair, as other posters have pointed out, the run defense did not really clamp down until the GB OL turned into shambles.

To also be fair, part of the reason the line was in shambles was because it looked like one of our defensive linemen (Avril?) picked up one of the Packers and beat one of the offensive linemen on the head with him.

Wrong. They only gave up 3 big runs to Lacy in the first quarter, in the first series or two. After that, they shut him down the entire game and made him look BAD.

I'll let John Clayton tell it like it is, because he puts it a lot better than I can.
From this article: http://espn.go.com/blog/seattle-seahawk ... een-bay-16

The Seahawks' defense put on a clinic with its tackling and technique. Packers halfback Eddie Lacy, a physical runner in the mode of Lynch, opened the game with three carries for 24 yards, including a 15-yard run in which Seahawks defenders weren't in their proper gaps and some defenders missed tackles. After the 15-yard run, the Seahawks taught a lesson on tackling and swarming to the ball. Seattle safety Earl Thomas attributed the three-play start to the team merely adjusting to the speed of the game. Lacy had only 10 yards on his next nine carries and couldn't finish the game because of a concussion. At times, three and four Seattle defenders swarmed to the ball to make stops.

Largent80 · Sep 5, 2014

Kevin Williams, what a BRILLIANT pick up. Our F.O. is Gawd. (God) for Christians.

HansGruber · Sep 5, 2014

No doubt.

So true, Largent. We held Lacy to 12 carries. Green Bay gave up on the run. Not quite what I was expecting and it bodes very well for this season.

HawKnPeppa · Sep 5, 2014

jlwaters1":1aoceur6 said:
I don't get all the worry about the run defense. Or the DL concerns in general. Clemmons wasn't nearly as effective as he was in 2012. he had 4.5 sacks. IIRC Bryant played roughly 25% of the defensive plays. I think both guys are replaceable and having Bennett and Avril with a year of experience in the system I see them as being better and adding Williams and resigning McDaniels I think this DL has a chance to be better.

Last year we were 7th against the run average 101 yard/game, or 3.9 YPC

Yesterday against the Packers had 80 yards, 3.8 YPC. The Packer's wanted to run the ball down our throats and they did that for much of the first half. They also were bragging (before the game) that their OL was much improved,

they wanted to be a physical running team and were completely shut down. Last year Carolina ran for 134 yards with a 5.2 YPC.

A little perspective here please. Packer fans bragging about their run game is not a credible source. No getting around the fact that they had a rookie at Center. I'll take a wait-and-see attitude with the run D.

HawKnPeppa · Sep 5, 2014

jlwaters1":2amy9nny said:
I don't get all the worry about the run defense. Or the DL concerns in general. Clemmons wasn't nearly as effective as he was in 2012. he had 4.5 sacks. IIRC Bryant played roughly 25% of the defensive plays. I think both guys are replaceable and having Bennett and Avril with a year of experience in the system I see them as being better and adding Williams and resigning McDaniels I think this DL has a chance to be better.

Last year we were 7th against the run average 101 yard/game, or 3.9 YPC

Yesterday against the Packers had 80 yards, 3.8 YPC. The Packer's wanted to run the ball down our throats and they did that for much of the first half. They also were bragging (before the game) that their OL was much improved,

they wanted to be a physical running team and were completely shut down. Last year Carolina ran for 134 yards with a 5.2 YPC.

A little perspective here please. Packer fans bragging about their run game is not a credible source. No getting around the fact that they had a rookie at Center. I'll take a wait-and-see attitude with the run D.

kearly · Sep 5, 2014

I actually thought Williams looked like somewhat of a run game liability in the preseason. Just another reminder to take preseason performance with a grain of salt.

Our linebackers sometimes struggle against stronger RBs, we saw it in the Raiders preseason game and we saw it to an extent with Eddie Lacy. The key in this game was that the front seven never allowed Lacy to hit the second level with a head of steam.

Even though Seattle was less than perfect on run defense in the preseason, it was never a major worry for me. It's hard for me to imagine any line with McDaniel, Mebane, and Williams to struggle against the run. Avril and Bennett are relatively good run defenders too, and then of course you have Kam. Our LBs are a bit shaky against hurly burly RBs, though Irvin helps cancel that out when he's on the field.

hoxrox · Sep 5, 2014

They passed the first test, but it wasn't that great of a test. Rookie center plus back up RT, and what looks to be an overrated Lacy. Starks had a better day.

Last year, we consistently saw runners get stuffed for losses or zero gains.

scutterhawk · Sep 5, 2014

HawKnPeppa":cmiuh3rm said:
jlwaters1":cmiuh3rm said:

I don't get all the worry about the run defense. Or the DL concerns in general. Clemmons wasn't nearly as effective as he was in 2012. he had 4.5 sacks. IIRC Bryant played roughly 25% of the defensive plays. I think both guys are replaceable and having Bennett and Avril with a year of experience in the system I see them as being better and adding Williams and resigning McDaniels I think this DL has a chance to be better.

Last year we were 7th against the run average 101 yard/game, or 3.9 YPC

Yesterday against the Packers had 80 yards, 3.8 YPC. The Packer's wanted to run the ball down our throats and they did that for much of the first half. They also were bragging (before the game) that their OL was much improved,

they wanted to be a physical running team and were completely shut down. Last year Carolina ran for 134 yards with a 5.2 YPC.

Click to expand...

A little perspective here please. Packer fans bragging about their run game is not a credible source. No getting around the fact that they had a rookie at Center. I'll take a wait-and-see attitude with the run D.

I was watching the Packers Rookie Center, and he did a damned good job at holding his ground with Mebane, which impressed the hell out of me.
I also like how well Britt held his own too.

Scottemojo · Sep 5, 2014

Big ol' Lacy type RBs have not been a problem for a couple of years now. Think Steven Jackson.

But the slashers give us fits. Guys like Spiller, and last night, Starks. Good thing for us Starks was not a big part of the gameplan.

chris98251 · Sep 6, 2014

The difference between Lynch and Lacy is when Lynch runs he delivers a blow when he finishes, Lacy takes one, so did Earl, Lynch does what Payton did, finishes the run giving punishment, probably why he had a long career as a RB and why Lynch seems to be looking good as of now as well.

I think it's also why defenders hate tackling him.

Run Defense - better than we thought

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