Exactly how many steps back have we taken?

We all saw that mess on the field yesterday where we got punched in the face in our own house. This is not something that happens often, and it has been because we have been the bully. We have been the guys on the block not to be messed with.

San Francisco was the pound for pound arch rival that we played in a slugfest in the NFC championship game and we took them out and outlasted them in the fight. Now I know this is not last years team. Injuries, lost some players etc.

Dallas is the hot team right now and quickly rising to be a surprise playoff bound team if they keep this up. However, how do we go from the bully, to looking like a victim yesterday? Is crushing people with our will still not our main priority in our game plans? Dallas has upped it's physical nature since recent years, but are they the new smash mouth team?

Basically I am trying to find out just how far back to the pack we have fallen? The defense is naturally worrying. Having flashbacks to 2012 when giving up late leads was our SPECIALTY. (Denver game, and Dallas.)

You can only use the whole bounce back thing so many times. However the defense playing average at best has officially become a trend/pattern. If I was an opposing fan I would not really fear that vaunted Seattle D like so many used to. We are the, "they aren't what they used to be defense."

So throw some ideas and thoughts our there. I know this is harsh, but when I see my team get railroaded in their own house, I am gonna be real.

Exactly how many steps back has our roster taken? Where do we stand with the rest of the NFC? Is Dallas really that much better that we can't hang with them on a consistent basis?

Let's look at the Bullies, or guys with attitude on this team last year:

Browner - Gone
Breno - Gone
Tate - Gone
ADB (not quite the bully but certainly the attitude) - On Roster
Lynch - On Roster
Sherman - On Roster
Kam - On Roster but clearly hurt

Now look at the supposed locker room leaders last year:

Red - Gone
Clemons - Gone
Mike Rob - Gone
Earl Thomas - On Roster
Wilson - On Roster

You could certainly make a case that our most aggressive instigators were guys like Browner & Tate. But either way, 50% of our "dirtbags", to coin a phrase from Mora, are gone. And at least 50% of the locker room leadership is gone too.

We went from being aggressive to being passive. From bulldozer to dink/dunk. From long balls to bubble screens, or worse.

From being a team that dictates how they play to one that adjusts play to how we think the new rules might call it.

And it makes sense given the soul of this team is essentially gone. Remember Browner was the one that defined the LOB play style, and he beat up opposing WRs so they would get more focused on messing with Browner than playing football. Breno was the nasty Russian that left a trail of bruises behind him. Red was the guy that got in people's faces if they slacked off when playing defense. Tate was the guy that frustrated teams and led them to get emotional & out of sync. Lynch is still Lynch but we don't use him or block for him when we use him.

We were going to lose some of these guys to FA, but I think some were jettisoned without thought on how they might impact the emotion that fuels the team.

Wilson is very even keel, and is now the leader. However the team mirroring his emotional state means the aggressiveness gets sucked away. We now play to avoid risk instead of to intimidate, antagonize or punish.

IndyHawk84":16j0hlbx said:

Is Dallas really that much better that we can't hang with them on a consistent basis?

Click to expand...

Hold on, we can't hang with Dallas?

We were leading with less than 3:30 to go in the 4th.

We got the ball back with a chance to go tie the game up and force OT with a little over a minute left.

We lost by 1 score.

I'd say we were able to hang with Dallas.

^^ Yup. We are not the same physical, smash mouth team that we were last year, on either side of the ball.

I'm disappointed by our off-season moves and recent drafts.

hoxrox":1edoqw6u said:

^^ Yup. We are not the same physical, smash mouth team that we were last year, on either side of the ball.

I'm disappointed by our off-season moves and recent drafts.

Click to expand...

No, that team was down 20 points to the Bucs, at home.

One step forward and two steps back, nobody gets to the bar like that

Love all of the feedback honestly.

The only reason I say cannot hang with Dallas is because at the core of the game. Take away special team blocked punt etc.

We got outplayed and outmatched. The scoreboard did not reflect the whooping our boys were receiving for 60 minutes.

In the end no we did not hang with Dallas. We got beat up. Worst part was it was at our asylum in the Clink.

With 50% of our bullies being let go the other post made a huge point about how this team is different. By losing 7 to 8 people the entire tone of our team is different. It is like our DNA has changed.

Last year the feeling was just so different. There was a nation consensus it was our year, and the pass rushing moves we made put us over the top. We took it to teams and ran the show last season and it was great.

This year feels like it is the first time we might be taken a step back in the Pete Carroll era which is hard to swallow. In his tenure here every year we have seen massive progress forward until we "peaked" last year and had the best overall team in franchise history and a historical defense. Tough to swallow the idea that we have regressed but the evidence is there in the first 5 weeks if you ask me.

I get that 07 feel with this team. We are good and can great some weeks. On other weeks though we can get our clocks cleaned.

Basis4day":1yysa3r7 said:

hoxrox":1yysa3r7 said:

^^ Yup. We are not the same physical, smash mouth team that we were last year, on either side of the ball.

I'm disappointed by our off-season moves and recent drafts.

Click to expand...

No, that team was down 20 points to the Bucs, at home.

Click to expand...

This...

We looked pretty damn poor in a handful of games last season...but managed to sneak out wins.

Irvin makes that tackle on Romo and this whole board looks different.

Perspective. Yesterday wasn't fun but this team had similar outings last year just held on...

Credit to Romo and Williams for 3rd and 20. Dallas Oline is legit as well

IndyHawk84":2oxaf55q said:

Love all of the feedback honestly.

The only reason I say cannot hang with Dallas is because at the core of the game. Take away special team blocked punt etc.

We got outplayed and outmatched. The scoreboard did not reflect the whooping our boys were receiving for 60 minutes.

In the end no we did not hang with Dallas. We got beat up. Worst part was it was at our asylum in the Clink.

Click to expand...

But you can't take away special teams. Special teams is a significant part of a football game and frequently has a pretty big impact on the outcome.

Again, we were leading with less than 3:30 left in the game.

They had to convert a 3rd and 20 with a miracle play to eventually take the lead.

We had the ball with a chance to tie it up at the end but didn't pull it off.

We lost by 1 score in what was a very close game for the whole 60 minutes. Dallas never led by more than 1 score.

And yet, we did not hang with Dallas? Sorry man, that's BS.

Don't sell yourself short Judge, you're a tremendous slouch.

Right now the Hawks are the 3rd best team..... in the NFC West.

Let that sink in. We aren't even close to best in our own division, let alone the NFC. Additionally we are banged up big time. Dudes are dropping like flies. Now, a lot can change in the next couple months, but after watching our team and the others thus far, one thing is clear, SB XLVIII has softened us a tad. The Niners don't look polished on O, but they are downright filthy and knocking teams around. The Cards are as tough as it comes defensively and are winning games with a carousel of re-tread QBs.

The Seahawks better get the fire burning again or the Rams will do more than keep em honest.

Gut check time. I have no doubt they can respond. But after Sunday's crapfest on Offense, I'm not sure they will.

Chapow":izx1snk6 said:

Hold on, we can't hang with Dallas?

Click to expand...

We absolutely could not hang with Dallas. We had no business to be in a winnable position with how we played. The fact that we lost the game with how many "freebie" opportunities Dallas handed us is disgraceful and humiliating.

For me it just seems like overconfidence, we were so sure our Defense could dominate EVERY game that we failed to make any significant moves this off-season to address our glaring AND obvious weakness which is our Offensive Line.

We also let arguably our #1 receiver leave the team (Tate), and a staple of our pass rush (Clemens). Now we have a completely dysfunctional passing game and our pass rush is awful despite dropping so many players to vastly overpay the penalty prone/fall down every other play machine that is Bennett.


But back to the quote, you asked "we can't hang with Dallas?" as if that's a startling revelation!

Well I challenge you to tell me how we deserved that win or even "hung around" with Dallas when you analyze our scoring summary and realize how incredibly worthless and pathetic our Offense was. Here is a quote I made in another thread:

Tokadub":izx1snk6 said:

SCORING SUMMARY:

- 1 blocked punt Touchdown return
- 1 fumble leading to Touchdown (great field position)
- 1 muffed punt for a Field Goal
- 1 terrible punt where we only picked up 12 yards for the FG
- 1 real drive for a FG (first of game)

THE ONLY SCORE WE HAD THE ENTIRE GAME THAT CAME FROM A "REAL" OFFENSIVE DRIVE WAS OUR FIRST SCORE OF THE GAME WHICH REQUIRED KEARSE TO HAVE A 53 YARD RECEPTION... AND WE STILL COULDN'T SCORE A TOUCHDOWN WE SETTLED FOR A FIELD GOAL.


Just want to make sure everyone realizes that the only real work our offense did required a 53 yard bomb to Kearse (one of the only well designed plays I saw all game if not THE ONLY ONE...) and we only got a FG from that drive.

4/5 of our scores were literally handed to us by the Cowboys, although I'd give some credit to Baldwin blocking that punt but still... it was a pathetic effort all around.

Click to expand...

http://www.seahawks.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=98565


We have taken a huge step back on defense due to the new rule emphasis causing our secondary to become truly mediocre with all of our gaping coverage holes in our Zone Defense.

And I mistakenly thought this pre-season that we'd be OK because our 1st string Offense was ripping it up. Even though I expected that our Defense would have at least a slight drop-off this year, I thought (and still think if they stop being so stupid) that our Offense could pick up the slack.

But watching how this season has gone so far and especially this Dallas game, it's clear that ALL my criticisms and concerns from the off-season were accurate and VERY real. The ONLY thing that hasn't happened yet is Harvin getting injured, but even I couldn't expect we'd be this worthless on offense with him healthy.

Our Offensive Line continues to be a total joke, and Wilson is getting pummeled out there every game. Sadly the majority of people on this forum seemed to think we'd see significant improvements which made NO SENSE TO ME. Apparently the coaches thought they'd make improvements too for no apparent logical reason, or maybe they are just blindly confident.

Did anyone ever consider that Wilson had a really bad game VS Dallas because he took so many hits last week against the Redskins? Wilson possibly suffered some form of concussion which could explain why he looked so lost out there VS Dallas. It was as if the coaches told Wilson to never run in that game unless he was 100% sure he wouldn't take any hits.

Wilson was more indecisive than I have ever seen him. It was as if he wanted to run on so many plays but didn't because of the coaches. He was also off target with many passes, he dropped the ball on his first run of the game when simply passing it from his right to left hand, and he threw it to Walters for an obvious loss of yards on one of the ugliest plays I've ever seen.

This is all behavior that is extremely uncharacteristic of Wilson, a player who relies entirely on making split second decisions decisively and correctly. It could also explain why we barely ever ran the ball because the coaches were afraid Wilson would take the option to hold onto the ball causing him to take more hits.

Our Offensive line needs to be fixed ASAP but I don't think there's anything we can possibly do with how poorly we handled this off-season.

Right now? A bunch of steps back..........

Not so much steps back as no steps forward, were trying to run the offense that we ran in the super bowl against teams that have seen it, we need new wrinkles, the step backwards is on defense being protective instead of aggressive, I think we got spooked by the new emphasis on the rules.

The injuries all over amplify all of this.

Seems like the loss of physical bump & run coverage has made our whole team softer. Probably just my imagination; I don't know.

Not your imagination, were not contesting space or catches like last year.

Tokadub":32i43oat said:

Chapow":32i43oat said:

Hold on, we can't hang with Dallas?

Click to expand...

We absolutely could not hang with Dallas.

Click to expand...

Oh really?

Tokadub":32i43oat said:

At one point we were down 27-23 and we just needed one good clock eating drive to secure the game.

Click to expand...

This quote by you from another thread sounds suspiciously like we were hanging with Dallas.

Especially when you consider that they had to come from behind with less than 3:30 left in the game to take that 4 point lead.

And dude, this is football we're talking about. "Deserve's got nothing to do with it."

Sneaking out with a lucky victory would of been ideal yes. That's exactly what it would of been lucky. Our inability to physically hang with Dallas, and just overall how we have played this season tells a tale of how we are no longer dominant. The opposite is true, we can be physically dominated. Anyone who wants to just go by the scoreboard of this game I admire your ability to stay optimistic as a fan. I truly do.

I cannot however block out the beating I saw us take on the field.

Chapow":kfuzuk4w said:

IndyHawk84":kfuzuk4w said:

Is Dallas really that much better that we can't hang with them on a consistent basis?

Click to expand...

Hold on, we can't hang with Dallas?

We were leading with less than 3:30 to go in the 4th.

We got the ball back with a chance to go tie the game up and force OT with a little over a minute left.

We lost by 1 score.

I'd say we were able to hang with Dallas.

Click to expand...

Did you even watch the game? Holy crap, we got neutered on the big stage. The score was a byproduct of random occurrences. Anything that resembled actual mano a mano football was outright dominated by the boys. They outplayed us both offensively and defensively so bad i actually fear the rematch should it occur in wild card round.

With that mentality Denver should have just cancelled the whole season after the Super Bowl, any given Sunday and every dog can have his day, We got our asses kicked from Bellingham to Vancouver, looked like idiots on the offensive side and a sieve on defense, yet we hung around. Stats don't tell everything, Heart isn't measured in Fantasy Leagues but we still have it and didn't concede the game when we could have. The best team on any given day doesn't always win, and sometimes when you suck you can sqeak a win out with just continued effort, which is almost waht we did Sunday.

Do we need to fix stuff yes a lot, but as long as there is effort we have the chance to do so. It's recognising we have to and identifieing the problems top down.

Overall, I'd say the same as other have: we won some close games last year, this year, we're losing those same games. One big reason is we're not getting the turnovers we were. That's creating closer games.

I said last year, that I felt the poor OL pass blocking stunted Wilson's growth. His one big weakness was seeing a 3rd and 4th guy open. He didn't get to go deep in his progressions last year because of poor pass blocking, and he's getting more of the same this year. Eventually, that will take a toll: ask Carr after playing for Houston for a few years.

I also think we got burned by secondary depth. What looked like great depth this year got depleted quickly. Lane out. Kam playing hurt, and maybe out. Maxwell going down. It hasn't helped that we kept a perpetually injured guy (Simon) on the team and active because of his potential talent. It seemed like a good idea at the time since we were so deep, but now that is really burning us. Burley was a great pickup, but we can only expect so much of him right now.

I think the DL rotation is still shaking itself out. Guys that we expected to step up havent' quite played up to snuff, but we've also played some good OL's so far this year. Denver, Dallas, SD to name a few. Washington's is decent, but we played well against them.

I believe that our offensive play calling is hurting us. I think Lynch's back is worse than anyone is letting on, which is why we aren't pounding him. I'd like to see us use Turbin more, but that might not be quite as effective. I also believe it's why we're using Harvin so close to the LOS; we're trying to make up for a bad run game with higher percentage plays with Harvin where he can get some YAC.

Our pass blocking is so bad, we're having problems getting guys down the field. We really need to take advantage of our immediate speed like Harvin and Lockette to get open quickly, or at least stretch the defense a bit. Last year, we pounded the ball and hurt teams over the top. You can defend better horizontally than completely vertically on a field...it's physics. The field is deeper than it is wide.

It's a lot of little things, but if the coaches can figure it out, and our guys get pissed off enough, I still think we can get to 12 wins.