Carroll says "we're randomly going about our substitutions"

It seems like one of the most popular conversations right now is about the way that we are using our Offensive Personnel. Particularly, we are using Bryan Walters instead of guys who should be obviously better than him like Harvin, Norwood, Richardson, even Bates in my opinion.

Harvin seems to be sitting out on a lot of critical 3rd downs which doesn't make much sense...

So maybe I missed it but I haven't seen anyone comment on how Pete Carroll had this exact quote word for word in his press conference the day following our loss to Dallas:

"Umm that's just the rhythm of the game you know coming at us and who's ready, who isn't... to go for the sequences. If you notice, we're... we're randomly kind of going about our substitutions sometimes we get the guys that are exactly the right guys sometimes we don't. It depends what happened on the play before or the couple plays before."

http://www.seahawks.com/videos-phot...nference/38fa039e-9696-4401-8050-6431fca480a4

Quote starts at about 16 minute mark.

Kind of an interesting quote and I can only think of one guy who wouldn't be "ready" as Carroll states... and that's Harvin. I noticed at least 2 or 3 plays just in the first half where Wilson had to specifically yell and motion to Harvin because he was starting on the wrong side of the field. It wasn't that Harvin needed to come in motion during the snap... Harvin wasn't even in the right starting locations and appeared confused as to what plays they were running.

There's probably even more examples of Harvin's confusion that I can pick up when I re-watch the game.

That could explain why Harvin isn't in on critical 3rd downs if he doesn't even know what routes to run. It could also explain why we hardly ever use him down-field because if him and Russel aren't on the same page that's an interception waiting to happen.

It also makes sense why Walters is in there in his place, if there's one thing I do believe Walters can do well it's to run the correct routes and to run them cleanly. Walters does not seem to be the kind of athlete to be a real "explosive" threat on a consistent basis, but it's pretty dang obvious that Harvin is really having trouble picking up our Offense if Walters needs to run plays in his place on so many crucial game changing 3rd downs.

I also noticed on one of Harvin's runs against Dallas he didn't seem to know where the block was going to be and instead of cutting up straight down field around Britt's awesome block (that knocked the defender over) he ran laterally towards the sideline completely ignoring the obvious running lane. It's impossible to know if Harvin didn't know where he was supposed to run, perhaps it was just a broken play... but it looked like he messed up.


I'd like to hear if anyone else has a different interpretation of Carroll's quote, but to me it sounds like if we are "randomly" having to substitute guys something is seriously wrong with one or more of our current players. The only guy who seems to fit this description to me is Harvin.

If everyone knows what to do in the offense nothing should ever be "random" with who's on the field. You should know which are the best guys to pick up all those 1st downs that we keep failing miserably for in our ugly and pathetic attempts.

If it was just them trying to rest Harvin between plays then for Pete's Sake... save Harvin for the most important 3rd and 4th downs... I'll take my chances with our other players on 1st and 2nd but I DO NOT WANT TO EVER SEE BRYAN WALTERS ON 3rd OR 4th DOWN.

I'm an optimist, but I can't figure out how to be positive over those comments. I mean, reading them without the benefit of hearing the interview I was hoping it was just Pete joking around, though it clearly isn't.

Pretty worrying, and might explain why we're not seeing Percy line up at receiver if he doesn't know the calls/routes.

Wow, this is troubling considering the monetary investment in this guy. And certainly not being in on 3rd down several times plus the factors you mentioned about him lining up wrong are pretty damning.



SIGH

What I don't understand about Harvin is that he should know the plays better than anyone except Russell Wilson on the offense. He's been working with Bevell every year of his career except his last year in Minnesota.

I actually never thought of it like that, but I agree with you OP. Harvin and the playbook has got to be one of the main reasons he is subbed out so much and isn't asked to go downfield much.

Yet another possible facet of this thought process, but I remember somebody interviewing Percy when he said "Russ wants to keep doing the same play over and over until we get it perfect, but a lot of times I have to tell him to just let me play." That bothers me.

Don't get me wrong, Percy has abilities that are off the charts, but depending upon him to execute anything beyond a sweep, bubble screen, hand off or go route might be a stretch with that kind of attitude.

In a 'game of inches,' I'm thinking that a true professional would jump at the chance to get the play dialed in, between him and his QB, to the maximum extent possible, but, no, he just wants to 'go out there and play (read: lean on his natural abilities).'

Maybe I'm taking that a bit too far, but I think the one-on-one time with his QB should be a top priority. I think, to a certain extent, the guy lacks some mental maturity. With as long as he's been in the league, that's a huge red flag for me.

Very unsettling to read this. This guy's been in the league for quite some time. Why wouldn't he be able to learn a playbook? ADD?

HomerJHawk":3nwyrb90 said:

Very unsettling to read this. This guy's been in the league for quite some time. Why wouldn't he be able to learn a playbook? ADD?

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Yeah! Lets get Percy a prescription for Adderal... :stirthepot:

Pete is a master of coach speak and I wouldn't believe anything he says, no coach ever wants to give another team their mindset on how they cycle through players.

the ditch":2piv3djx said:

Pete is a master of coach speak and I wouldn't believe anything he says, no coach ever wants to give another team their mindset on how they cycle through players.

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Bevell draws their names out of a hat

Doesn't matter what plays we run when guys don't want to put in the second and third effort might as well draw them out of a hat.

That Carroll quote - "we're randomly going about our substitutions" concerns me. It means they aren't prepared or planning....at least to me. Maybe I'm reading into this more than I should but that is not a quote that makes me confident about this team and staff. It's like throwing spitballs at wall and picking something that sticks...anyone can randomly substitute. These guys are getting paid well to find out who is the best personnel in each situation not to randomly substitute. Yikes...maybe the SB win has gone to the coaches' heads.

Carroll's comment was in response to a question about personnel grouping. I think there is a misunderstanding born out of a misinterpretation of Carroll's remarks.

This reminds me of the misinterpretation of Bevell's remarks about rotating runningbacks on a day to day bases during training camp.

Jville":2nv6aluo said:

Carroll's comment was in response to a question about personnel grouping. I think there is a misunderstanding born out of a misinterpretation of Carroll's remarks.

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When I heard the quote listening to the presser live, I noted that Pete specifically mentioned something about if they'd had to do a lot of running on a previous play and things like that. I take it to mean that the circumstance of the previous play dictates the personnel on the next play, much more than whether a player made the correct or incorrect play.

Heck, I've seen players mess up many times in the past, and if anything, Russell is more apt to go to them the next play, so I have SERIOUS doubts that Harvin is being held out due to any errors on the field.

I think you're reading too much into this.

If Lynch is in on 1st and 2nd, he's not always in on 3rd either. Sometimes Turbin is back there to give him a breather.

Same concept with Percy, especially the way they use him on motions on early downs. He's constantly moving.

Do I agree with how they approach that - not necessarily, but I don't think it has anything to do with whether or not Percy knows the plays.

Yeah that was one of the worst "Pete" statements ever.

If Walters is in the game, it means Percy needs a breather because he just got hammered or is gassed.......which renders him ineffective.

Pete and Darrell can "manage" all the snaps for Percy they want in order to keep him fresh, but if it's late in the game and we need to move the ball and Percy's not in the game? Something's going on that Pete doesn't want to divulge........and like I said, it has to be Percy gassed or just got hit and needs a series to regroup.

I'm not buying that Harvin doesn't know the plays, at all. Not one bit.

Has anyone considered it might be an audible? Pete has stated in interviews in the offseason that they wanted to get Russell more involved in audibles because he's really good at reading defenses.

This would make a TON more sense to me than Harvin not knowing the playbook. I'm just not buying that.

Sgt. Largent":3uyc6h4n said:

Yeah that was one of the worst "Pete" statements ever.

If Walters is in the game, it means Percy needs a breather because he just got hammered or is gassed.......which renders him ineffective.

Pete and Darrell can "manage" all the snaps for Percy they want in order to keep him fresh, but if it's late in the game and we need to move the ball and Percy's not in the game? Something's going on that Pete doesn't want to divulge........and like I said, it has to be Percy gassed or just got hit and needs a series to regroup.

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Pete likes to play games a bit through the media. It's passive-aggressive, 3rd party brilliance. Bowie and Irvin we're his favorite targets this offseason, for example.

IMO, this was Pete taking a shot at Bevell and Harvin. Bevell for the randomness and Harvin for not being on the same page for a few plays.

This is really weird.

I don't buy that Harvin doesn't know the play calls or the offense. For pretty much his entire NFL career, he's been in Bevell's offense.

Likewise him being gassed. Harvin is one of the best conditioned athletes on the team, from all reports. He's never had a conditioning problem that I've heard about in his NFL career. With his speed and acceleration, it makes more sense that the defense would be gassed chasing him around the field.

pehawk":sy9xlnqu said:

Pete likes to play games a bit, through the media. It's passive-aggressive, 3rd party brilliance. Bowie and Irvin we're his favorite targets this offseason, for example.

IMO, this was Pete taking a shot at Bevell and Harvin. Bevell for the randomness and Harvin for not being on the same page for a few plays.

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I gotta admit, that fits.