BRADY/PATS PUNISHMENT OVER TURNED BY JUDGE. (Updated 9/3/15)

I agree with the above poster and that is one thing I think about all of the time is how they forget he was suspended for not cooperating....

There is one huge issue however. This case isn't about what Tom Brady did or didn't do. Its about labor law, and whether the CBA was violated. I honestly believe there is a good chance Brady gets off on a ridiculous out of semantics really.

ringless":joijopvm said:

I agree with the above poster and that is one thing I think about all of the time is how they forget he was suspended for not cooperating....

There is one huge issue however. This case isn't about what Tom Brady did or didn't do. Its about labor law, and whether the CBA was violated. I honestly believe there is a good chance Brady gets off on a ridiculous out of semantics really.

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I thought about that actually after i posted but without looking up any public info (if any) from the NFLPA and CBA i don't know, I would assume that with all the multiple advanced notices they gave that would not go in his favor since Brady was still uncooperative. I honestly think Brady didn't expect anything to come back to him. I think the NFL has things pretty well covered, which is why it took so long for the ruling to come out. I think they new and lined up their ducks to specifically prepare for court. Which is why I also believe that Goodell (or lawyers) worded the 20 page ruling to make sure it was obvious this wasn't about the deflation of footballs but his lack there of cooperation with the investigation itself. A side note I also found it interesting in the 20 page ruling that there was no denial by anyone involved about deflating footballs.

Essentially to me the way I see it, Brady acted like a kid getting caught with a cookie in his hand from the cookie jar. (Cooke being phone obviously) He ate it (destroying evidence) then proceeded to play dumb and say he didn't (lack of cooperation)

Really this comes down to he thought he was above reproach and that the NFL wouldn't dare do something to a player of his status. Once found out he again relied upon his status to hopefully make the sitiuation go away as trivial, I think why the Pats fans don't see the light as they think the same thing. Same reason Belichek feels he doesn't have to cooperate with media or anyone else as well.

ringless":1ml77h6c said:

"This is what I try and tell all the haters. Like, what if this was happening to your team? How would you feel then?
like us, you'd be outraged by Goodell's abuse of power."

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As a Steelers fan I have no love for the Pats** and Goodell both. The Steelers were the only team who voted unanimously against the current CBA because of their experience with Goodell wielding too much power as investigator, judge, jury, executioner, and appeals court. The players had a chance to negotiate a better deal, but hey (at the time) Goodell is only going after Ben Roethlisberger (4 game suspension in the face of exactly zero criminal evidence) and James Harrison (for tackling too hard and being a big meany) and not me and my team so let's not strike and gimmee the money. It was only a matter of time until the shoe was on the other foot. Charlie Batch tried to warn all yaz.
Don't get me wrong, I think that Brady, Belicheat, and the assistants are guilty as hell but also that Goodell's disciplinary process is arbitrary, inconsistent, and grossly unfair. But YOU PLAYERS voted for the system that's in place. YOUR UNION approved it (and Tommy Boy probably voted for it). So sit down and STFU until you negotiate your next contract. If you don't like the system, it's your own damn fault because you didn't try to change it when you had the chance.

@ Ron Burgundy. Interesting perspective, I didn't realize that. Thanks for sharing.

RedAlice":2g2k5x47 said:

@ Ron Burgundy. Interesting perspective, I didn't realize that. Thanks for sharing.

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You're welcome. I came across this on a Steelers board AFTER I made my post:

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/pi ... ll?ref=yfp

Ron Burgundy":3oahympm said:

ringless":3oahympm said:

"This is what I try and tell all the haters. Like, what if this was happening to your team? How would you feel then?
like us, you'd be outraged by Goodell's abuse of power."

Click to expand...

As a Steelers fan I have no love for the Pats** and Goodell both. The Steelers were the only team who voted unanimously against the current CBA because of their experience with Goodell wielding too much power as investigator, judge, jury, executioner, and appeals court. The players had a chance to negotiate a better deal, but hey (at the time) Goodell is only going after Ben Roethlisberger (4 game suspension in the face of exactly zero criminal evidence) and James Harrison (for tackling too hard and being a big meany) and not me and my team so let's not strike and gimmee the money. It was only a matter of time until the shoe was on the other foot. Charlie Batch tried to warn all yaz.
Don't get me wrong, I think that Brady, Belicheat, and the assistants are guilty as hell but also that Goodell's disciplinary process is arbitrary, inconsistent, and grossly unfair. But YOU PLAYERS voted for the system that's in place. YOUR UNION approved it (and Tommy Boy probably voted for it). So sit down and STFU until you negotiate your next contract. If you don't like the system, it's your own damn fault because you didn't try to change it when you had the chance.

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I'm no fan of Goodell, and you certainly make valid points here. But IMO the players are never going to get what they want, which is a set in stone rules and regulations for every single violation we can think of.

The reason Goodell has total autonomy and decision making when it comes to fines, suspensions and penalties is the NFL is a fluid league with wildly different infractions and problems.

So for Brady to say "it says in our CBA that THIS is the penalty for messing with equipment" isn't fair to the situation. Nor is it fair to say that for most of the suspensions Goodell's handled over the past couple of years.

In a vacuum deflating footballs for one game isn't a big deal, and most people probably would be cool with just a fine. But when you throw in destruction of cell phones, inability to cooperate with investigators, and an entire organization defying the league every single step of the way? Then you get loss of picks, million dollar fine and Tommy Boy suspended for four games.

Goodell has certainly messed up plenty, but this is one he got right.

Sgt. Largent nailed it.

The defense about punishments not all being consistent and laid out somewhere is not a defense at all. You can take any two cases in the criminal justice system and act baffled if you like at why infraction A received one punishment and infraction B received another, and that's the system of laws that affect real lives instead of a mere form of entertainment.

And if the laws were set in stone, we would rapidly find situations where the specific circumstances made it so the specified penalty made little sense, prompting players and delusional fans to whine about the rigid inflexibility of having everything set in stone.

We don't need - nor have the players won through bargaining - some expensive jury system. A commissioner + some modification system is just fine for a sports league. Players will go back to loving it if they get some commissioner who goes light like a Tagliabue. Although they got Goodell in the first place because they'd had it so easy for so long. The owners were looking for someone they could market as cleaning things up, because the NFL had become such a huge deal.

Fans of teams currently being punished will complain, but truthfully the league can not go wrong going very heavy on punishment. The complaints from the guilty aren't going to kill your league. Having folks get flash memories of Ray Rice punching his girlfriend and get off light when they turn the TV on might. So might infractions that go to the integrity of the game.

I can see a case for going a lot heavier on Brady. Belichick is a smart man, the Patriots continue to do it because they've calculated that they get more out of cheating than they lose by getting caught. Although from a legacy standpoint, that calculation is starting to look like it leaves out some crucial factors.

Sgt. Largent":1ov2jiz3 said:

]I'm no fan of Goodell, and you certainly make valid points here. But IMO the players are never going to get what they want, which is a set in stone rules and regulations for every single violation we can think of.

The reason Goodell has total autonomy and decision making when it comes to fines, suspensions and penalties is the NFL is a fluid league with wildly different infractions and problems.

So for Brady to say "it says in our CBA that THIS is the penalty for messing with equipment" isn't fair to the situation. Nor is it fair to say that for most of the suspensions Goodell's handled over the past couple of years.

In a vacuum deflating footballs for one game isn't a big deal, and most people probably would be cool with just a fine. But when you throw in destruction of cell phones, inability to cooperate with investigators, and an entire organization defying the league every single step of the way? Then you get loss of picks, million dollar fine and Tommy Boy suspended for four games.

Goodell has certainly messed up plenty, but this is one he got right.

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Believe me, I agree with you 100%. Just that now when it happens to a lot of peoples' favorite player and media darling in a major media market, suddenly Goodell is the bad guy. Now that Goodell's inconsistencies and him being judge, jury, executioner, and appeals court are laid bare for other teams and their fans to see, well then maybe the players' union will negotiate a better system next time. At the very least they need to create a board of appeals or some other mechanism that takes the Commish out of the appeals process or it's going to continually result in legal issues. I agree with you that Goodell got this one right but the way the process is set up is going to have players going trying to go to court every time they don't like the result. Don't like it, fine, negotiate a better deal in the next CBA. The Steelers tried to tell 'em the Commish had too much power the last time but nobody wanted to listen because it was the Steelers.

Brady four games, Belicheat banned for life. No soup for you.

The good news is this will all be decided and finalized at the latest September 4th. Thank god

ringless":1ewib82k said:

The good news is this will all be decided and finalized at the latest September 4th. Thank god

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Why Sep 4?

RedAlice":2pfkyoty said:

ringless":2pfkyoty said:

The good news is this will all be decided and finalized at the latest September 4th. Thank god

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Why Sep 4?

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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... y-decision

Both the NFL and NFLPA filed paperwork for expedited handling of this case to have the final answer by Sep 4th. There will be no injunction filed to let Brady play. That way it is decided before the start of the season and doesnt stretch into the season. It doesn't give an exact answer why they want it done except that they want it over.

However if one were to speculate I think its because the NFLPA realizes they don't have as good as a case as they were saying. If it was decided during the season instead he could be suspended in December which is a key time. I also think that way it doesn't have to be a distraction in season of will he or wont he be playing. All the meetings/distractions that would take away from trying to win.

No Hall of Fame, ever.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

Looks like the judge what's a meeting soon.
http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/i ... suspension

ringless":2u7101ht said:

RedAlice":2u7101ht said:

ringless":2u7101ht said:

The good news is this will all be decided and finalized at the latest September 4th. Thank god

Click to expand...

Why Sep 4?

Click to expand...

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... y-decision

Both the NFL and NFLPA filed paperwork for expedited handling of this case to have the final answer by Sep 4th. There will be no injunction filed to let Brady play. That way it is decided before the start of the season and doesnt stretch into the season. It doesn't give an exact answer why they want it done except that they want it over.

However if one were to speculate I think its because the NFLPA realizes they don't have as good as a case as they were saying. If it was decided during the season instead he could be suspended in December which is a key time. I also think that way it doesn't have to be a distraction in season of will he or wont he be playing. All the meetings/distractions that would take away from trying to win.

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I didn't know that. Nice.

I still thought he might try to get an injunction. End in site then.

His wife's possible "Inflategate" is better documented than the Wells Report.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ation.html

ringless":2ic1h4wa said:

However if one were to speculate I think its because the NFLPA realizes they don't have as good as a case as they were saying. If it was decided during the season instead he could be suspended in December which is a key time. I also think that way it doesn't have to be a distraction in season of will he or wont he be playing. All the meetings/distractions that would take away from trying to win.

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I'm thinking that most NFL players who don't have a Pats** logo on their helmet would like to see Brady lose but the players' union is probably contractually obligated to defend Brady's grievances and court if need be.

This just keeps getting better and better...

Apparently Robert Kraft felt betrayed enough by Goodell to blow the whistle on NFL emails where it is revealed NFL personnel were leaking false information to tarnish the Pats prior to investigation.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/blogs/nfl- ... 14697.html

5_Golden_Rings":1pa5udrw said:

This just keeps getting better and better...

Apparently Robert Kraft felt betrayed enough by Goodell to blow the whistle on NFL emails where it is revealed NFL personnel were leaking false information to tarnish the Pats prior to investigation.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/blogs/nfl- ... 14697.html

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The Patriots accused the NFL of leaking the false information. There is nothing in the email chain that reveals that the NFL was leaking false information. What the Patriots were screaming about was the fact that the league didn't correct the erroneous ESPN story.

rigelian":epm7br59 said:

5_Golden_Rings":epm7br59 said:

This just keeps getting better and better...

Apparently Robert Kraft felt betrayed enough by Goodell to blow the whistle on NFL emails where it is revealed NFL personnel were leaking false information to tarnish the Pats prior to investigation.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/blogs/nfl- ... 14697.html

Click to expand...

The Patriots accused the NFL of leaking the false information. There is nothing in the email chain that reveals that the NFL was leaking false information. What the Patriots were screaming about was the fact that the league didn't correct the erroneous ESPN story.

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Kraft is such a bitch. To bad James Orthwein failed to move the Patriots to St. Louis in 1993.