Draft 1st round winners

To be totally honest, if he was three on their board and they took him at 31 with the INTENTION of sitting him for a year I wouldn't even blink at that.

They suck and first round contracts have fifth year options. That wouldn't bother me at all.

Bad teams should be trying to extract long term value that way.

Honk?


:{)

Hope he doesn't end up with the shoulder situation Brian Bosworth had, great player if he was healthy same kind of reckless disregard for his body.

Agree with the OP. The Browns' picks have had me nodding. The 49ers had some sweet moves. And the Texans did well for themselves.

A 1st round not-so-much-of-a-winner?

[tweet]https://twitter.com/OchoK41/status/857806061889355776[/tweet]

getnasty":4skw878m said:

NINEster":4skw878m said:

mikeak":4skw878m said:

In my opinion three teams that came out as winners tonight are

1) Cleveland. Not only smart good picks but used the draft capital and moved both up and down and stayed smart. Also with not drafting a QB and rolling with Osweiler they secured next years first pick which will put a QB on an otherwise good teamIMHO

2) 49ers. Moving down one spot and getting the guy they wanted plus two 3rd rounders and a 4th was smart and played well. Then rumor is hey consider foster with their no 3 pick and if correct they just gave up less than they gained at the beginning of the round to grab him

3) Houston was a QB away from a very good season last year. Opinions are split on Watson but he will undoubtedly be better than what they had. I honk they will be very dangerous next year

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Someone told me Cleveland has enough draft capital to get whatever QB they want next year.

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When you pick number one you always have get to choose who you want.

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It won't matter if they win the Super Bowl, they'll be able to pick #1 overall if they need to.

BTW, 49ers picked JJ Stokes at #10 right after they won the Super Bowl.

mikeak":epv1tt2q said:

Marvin49":epv1tt2q said:

I LOVE the Foster pick but I do recognize the significant risk in it. Picking him at 31 tho is VERY different then taking him at 2 or 3.

The shoulder honestly is my biggest concern but is it really more concerning than Myles Jack or Jaylon Smith last year who were both taken only a few picks later? According to Foster himself tho, New Orleans had already told him he was their pick at 32 so Niners HAD to move to get him.

I think my biggest surprise tho was that it was a trade with Seattle. The last time I can remember the Niners trading up with NFC West rival in round 1 for a defender was '94 when they moved up with the Rams for Bryant Young.

If Foster is even 80% of what Young was this was a steal.

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With the NO information it makes perfect sense

We rather let the 49ers have Foster than a team that we might have to play in the playoffs :stirthepot:

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I enjoy the fact that Schneider keeps thinking his defense is better than it really is. He's bought into the national hype that the Seahawks have the best defense in the league still.

49ers run same defense as Seahawks, Bowman comparable to Wagner, Smith comparable to KJ Wright, and yet the Hawks think their #3 is that good they could pass on him. The 49ers drafted LB despite no longer running a 3-4.

We now have 4 teams running the 4-3 Under:

Seahawks
Falcons
49ers
Chargers

Should be interesting watching these defenses compare over time.

So the 49ers get another 3rd round QB that wears 16 and can't throw the deep ball supposedly. 49ers have done well so far and I like the Iowa kid based on his highlights.

The_Z_Man":1u5tjqqe said:

Another thing: These so called "world beater" Linebackers that come out of Alabama every year, never pan out as dominant in the NFL. No matter how fantastic they look in college, in the NFL? Not so much.

Guys like Mark Barron, Ryan Anderson, Hightower, Mosley, et. -- all end up being role players.

The ones who do the best in the NFL are guys who are playing behind dominant D lines like they are used to, but even then they aren't exactly rolling in Pro Bowls.

The old adage - LB or a RB from Alabama are always overrated, seems to hold plenty of water.


Like last year "Ezekiel Elliot or Derrick Henry, which RB do you draft?" Some very wise draft pundit says "Easy, the guy who doesn't play for Alabama"

Guess what? Elliot goes for nearly 2k

Henry for under 500

No debate, no contest.

Which one didn't play for bama?

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I agree with you about Barron, but Mosley is a 2x All Pro already & Hightower is also a very good LB. Was just an all-pro last year. Ryan Anderson hasn't played an NFL down yet, so he's TBD.

Henry also played behind a top 7 RB in DeMarco Murray, even though Zeke is still the superior RB.

If you want to talk about underwhelming Alabama prospects, I would go CBs.

The_Z_Man":15bkrp72 said:

It's just this thing about Alabama, when you have a massive future NFL player at every position along the D line, it's hard to tell just how exceptional the linebackers really are, and for that matter the DB's. They don't have to cover very long at Alabama because QB's are running for their lives.

Anyway, getting sidetracked. The original post I took umbrage with, is this notion that the Seahawks are stupid for not picking the guy. Even if he goes on to be a stud with the 49ers, it wouldn't mean the same in our system, and again, we have Wagner and KJ Wright... what we need is that Strongside guy that occasionaly pick up a WR in the same way that KJ handles tight ends at times.

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This hits the nail on the head. Alabama has produced Pro-Bowl level DL during this run but their DB's and LB's have tended to be busts or over drafted.

NINEster":m33dgvop said:

mikeak":m33dgvop said:

Marvin49":m33dgvop said:

I LOVE the Foster pick but I do recognize the significant risk in it. Picking him at 31 tho is VERY different then taking him at 2 or 3.

The shoulder honestly is my biggest concern but is it really more concerning than Myles Jack or Jaylon Smith last year who were both taken only a few picks later? According to Foster himself tho, New Orleans had already told him he was their pick at 32 so Niners HAD to move to get him.

I think my biggest surprise tho was that it was a trade with Seattle. The last time I can remember the Niners trading up with NFC West rival in round 1 for a defender was '94 when they moved up with the Rams for Bryant Young.

If Foster is even 80% of what Young was this was a steal.

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With the NO information it makes perfect sense

We rather let the 49ers have Foster than a team that we might have to play in the playoffs :stirthepot:

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I enjoy the fact that Schneider keeps thinking his defense is better than it really is. He's bought into the national hype that the Seahawks have the best defense in the league still.

49ers run same defense as Seahawks, Bowman comparable to Wagner, Smith comparable to KJ Wright, and yet the Hawks think their #3 is that good they could pass on him. The 49ers drafted LB despite no longer running a 3-4.

We now have 4 teams running the 4-3 Under:

Seahawks
Falcons
49ers
Chargers

Should be interesting watching these defenses compare over time.

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Still one of the top defenses in the NFL, and the Falcons, Chargers, and 9ers still have below average to awful defenses. Bowman was better than Wagoner two knee injuries ago, but it's been a long time, and LOL at Smith being better than Wright. Cmon man.

The_Z_Man":225y7395 said:

NINEster":225y7395 said:

I enjoy the fact that Schneider keeps thinking his defense is better than it really is. He's bought into the national hype that the Seahawks have the best defense in the league still.

49ers run same defense as Seahawks, Bowman comparable to Wagner, Smith comparable to KJ Wright, and yet the Hawks think their #3 is that good they could pass on him. The 49ers drafted LB despite no longer running a 3-4.

We now have 4 teams running the 4-3 Under:

Seahawks
Falcons
49ers
Chargers

Should be interesting watching these defenses compare over time.

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Hilariously uninformed post. Homerish niner junk. Do people not understand schemes and fits at all?

Foster isn't a fit for the Seahawks -- Why the hell would John and Pete spend a pick on him? We need strongside linebacker that runs 4.5 ish, has excellent coverage skills with long arms, so he can actually handle Wide Receivers from time to time, like Irvin did well, and Morgan does at a journeyman level, not a slower, smaller MLB who would sit on the bench for 5 years because our All Pro at that position is only 26 years old.

As far as Schneider "thinking his defense" is better, if that was the case he would not have spent 4 of our first 5 picks in this draft on our DEFENSE. He got two D line studs, one that has a good chance of giving us what Red Bryant used to provide, except with more speed and pass rush skills, so that could be a game changer right there. We also just picked up a CB that may actually start as a rookie, considering the injury situation, and a guy who should be a significant upgrade as a backup safety compared to what we had last year.

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Zing! :2thumbs:

NINEster":3n0r1sqq said:

I enjoy the fact that Schneider keeps thinking his defense is better than it really is. He's bought into the national hype that the Seahawks have the best defense in the league.

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It was, right up until the time Thomas went down for the season.

Thomas will be back next year.

And we just reloaded.

chris98251":izpcein9 said:

So the 49ers get another 3rd round QB that wears 16 and can't throw the deep ball supposedly. 49ers have done well so far and I like the Iowa kid based on his highlights.

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He has some deep ball accuracy issues, but the claim by the "experts" that he has a noodle arm is flat out laughable and embarrassing for them (because it shows they didn't actually watch much film on him).

His ACTUAL flaws include: pocket awareness, deep ball accuracy inconsistency, hesitation from time to time.

The_Z_Man":izpcein9 said:

NINEster":izpcein9 said:

I enjoy the fact that Schneider keeps thinking his defense is better than it really is. He's bought into the national hype that the Seahawks have the best defense in the league still.

49ers run same defense as Seahawks, Bowman comparable to Wagner, Smith comparable to KJ Wright, and yet the Hawks think their #3 is that good they could pass on him. The 49ers drafted LB despite no longer running a 3-4.

We now have 4 teams running the 4-3 Under:

Seahawks
Falcons
49ers
Chargers

Should be interesting watching these defenses compare over time.

Click to expand...

Hilariously uninformed post. Homerish niner junk. Do people not understand schemes and fits at all?

Foster isn't a fit for the Seahawks -- Why the hell would John and Pete spend a pick on him? We need strongside linebacker that runs 4.5 ish, has excellent coverage skills with long arms, so he can actually handle Wide Receivers from time to time, like Irvin did well, and Morgan does at a journeyman level, not a slower, smaller MLB who would sit on the bench for 5 years because our All Pro at that position is only 26 years old.

As far as Schneider "thinking his defense" is better, if that was the case he would not have spent 4 of our first 5 picks in this draft on our DEFENSE. He got two D line studs, one that has a good chance of giving us what Red Bryant used to provide, except with more speed and pass rush skills, so that could be a game changer right there. We also just picked up a CB that may actually start as a rookie, considering the injury situation, and a guy who should be a significant upgrade as a backup safety compared to what we had last year.

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I would say Foster is a SCHEME* fit for Seattle, but not a ROSTER fit due to Wagner and Wright.

Seattle drafting him would be like Green Bay drafting a qn in round 1.


*-Note: You will not find another cb as tall and yet still as good as Sherman. It makes no sense to say his body type is the only scheme fit. He's just the ideal. But any somewhat tall cb who can play press and zone would be a scheme fit.

Likewise with Foster, except I'd add that he's athletic and instinctual enough to fit ANY NFL scheme. Case in point regarding his slightly slower speed: Derrick Brooks ran a 4.67, and anyone who says he would not fit in Seattle's scheme should turn in their NFL fan card. The closest defense in the last 20 years to Seattle's is that Bucs team. Speed is important for coverage. Quickness, reaction time and instinct are FAR more important.

Popeyejones":1a7etco3 said:

NINEster":1a7etco3 said:

mikeak":1a7etco3 said:

Marvin49":1a7etco3 said:

I LOVE the Foster pick but I do recognize the significant risk in it. Picking him at 31 tho is VERY different then taking him at 2 or 3.

The shoulder honestly is my biggest concern but is it really more concerning than Myles Jack or Jaylon Smith last year who were both taken only a few picks later? According to Foster himself tho, New Orleans had already told him he was their pick at 32 so Niners HAD to move to get him.

I think my biggest surprise tho was that it was a trade with Seattle. The last time I can remember the Niners trading up with NFC West rival in round 1 for a defender was '94 when they moved up with the Rams for Bryant Young.

If Foster is even 80% of what Young was this was a steal.

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With the NO information it makes perfect sense

We rather let the 49ers have Foster than a team that we might have to play in the playoffs :stirthepot:

Click to expand...

I enjoy the fact that Schneider keeps thinking his defense is better than it really is. He's bought into the national hype that the Seahawks have the best defense in the league still.

49ers run same defense as Seahawks, Bowman comparable to Wagner, Smith comparable to KJ Wright, and yet the Hawks think their #3 is that good they could pass on him. The 49ers drafted LB despite no longer running a 3-4.

We now have 4 teams running the 4-3 Under:

Seahawks
Falcons
49ers
Chargers

Should be interesting watching these defenses compare over time.

Click to expand...

Still one of the top defenses in the NFL, and the Falcons, Chargers, and 9ers still have below average to awful defenses. Bowman was better than Wagoner two knee injuries ago, but it's been a long time, and LOL at Smith being better than Wright. Cmon man.

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I dunno about that in terms of the talent on D on SFs roster.

I will say that Seattle is still REALLY good on D so I'm not going to make THAT argument. Lol. SF has a long way to go to approach that class.

Having said that, I think the DC last year in SF really masked what talent is there. D-Line consistently playing on their heals with too much to do, LBs CONSTANTLY getting hurt (Ray Ray Armstrong and Navarro both out for season by week 5), and the DBs either weren't that good or were playing out of position.

Now, I can't wait to see Arik Armstead, DeForest Buckner, and Solomon Thomas all firing upfield and attacking in a one-gap system. What Armstead does really well is bull rush into the backfield. What he doesn't do as well is read and shed. Buckner started looking real good at the end of the year and looks like he's put on muscle when interview lately dude is just huge now.

My concern is exactly where these two guys plus Thomas play along the line...but its a good problem to have.

With Bowman and Armstrong coming back and now Foster there to join him...things are looking up quite a bit at LB. To be clear, I don't think Armstrong is a star or something, but he played well in brief time before he got hurt last year.

DB? I think this will be huge. The are moving Eric Reid to be a box safety ALA Kam. Personally, I don't think its going to work out and they'll let him leave as a FA next year. I just don't think that fits his game in particular since the concussions. I think Tartt should get a shot there or they may prioritize that position in the draft next year. I really like Rashard Robinson as one corner and wonder about Witherspoon or Johnson on the other side. It seems clear though that they are looking at long levered tall corners ALA Seattle. Not saying those guys will be Sherman as that would be foolish, but they are certainly looking for guys with Shermans physical attributes.

FS is my favorite move. Jimmie Ward should have been a FS from the start. Great center fielder who now has experience at corner if its necessary. I think he could emerge as a star back there.

Niners have a TON of work to do, but I see talent on all three levels of defense. Jim O'neil tho was a complete disaster just as he was in Cleveland. Thats who is available to you through when Chip Kelly is your HC.

The Redskins and Texans won the first round.

The_Z_Man":3dq55cbd said:

5_Golden_Rings":3dq55cbd said:

Likewise with Foster, except I'd add that he's athletic and instinctual enough to fit ANY NFL scheme. Case in point regarding his slightly slower speed: Derrick Brooks ran a 4.67, and anyone who says he would not fit in Seattle's scheme should turn in their NFL fan card. The closest defense in the last 20 years to Seattle's is that Bucs team. Speed is important for coverage. Quickness, reaction time and instinct are FAR more important.

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What the hell does Derrick Brooks have to do with this conversation? We have a guy who plays that position, his name is KJ Wright.

I was talking about the reasons for not drafting Foster.

I said that he'd backup Wagner, and that is the entire point of my freaking post. He'd play MLB well in Seattle's scheme, but Wagner is only 26. Which means that by drafting Foster you'd get a player who would fill in for an injured Wagner, but the rest of the time you'd be struggling to find a place for him. Foster wouldn't help the Seahawks unless Wagner or Wright went down, and that would be frustrating for Foster, and we all see that he has personality issues and would likely act out if he was frustrated by sitting on the bench or being used in a role he's not suited for.

So instead of forcing a square peg into a round hole, you get an extra pick and grab a player who does way more for the team. If MM plays up to potential, the impact on the Seahawks D is triple what you'd ever get out of Foster at his ceiling. McDowell was the risk Seattle had to take in this draft, no matter what. We need interior pass rush on the line, BADLY, not a backup Middle or Weak side linebacker.

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I only addressed if you meant a scheme fit. If you meant a roster fit, then yes. But scheme? Foster can and would do very well in that scheme (as would Brooks).

So, I agree that this was a good trade for Seattle, but it's because of the roster, not the scheme.

The_Z_Man":12d9dago said:

5_Golden_Rings":12d9dago said:

I only addressed if you meant a scheme fit. If you meant a roster fit, then yes. But scheme? Foster can and would do very well in that scheme (as would Brooks).

So, I agree that this was a good trade for Seattle, but it's because of the roster, not the scheme.

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It's a combo of both, scheme and roster. Obviously if the Seahawks were playing 3-4 -- (which they kinda do, in that their LEO plays like an LB at times) they would draft foster in a heartbeat.

And still, there is some scheme consideration. Example: They really do need a linebacker, however, the Seahawks SS linebacker, which they call SAM -- has to do a few things that Foster cannot do.

#1 The SAM linebacker is responsible for containing outside running plays, picking up the occasional wide receiver, tight end, AND has to take on the left tackle. He has to have long arms, speed, and bulk. Foster has A: short arms, and B: sub par speed, and he's a bit small. KPL is an example of a guy who has the speed to play SAM in our scheme but really struggles and is limited because he's a touch too small. He gets completely swallowed by tackles, and trucked by bigger backs and tight ends. Morgan has the same issue. Foster is about the same size or a little bit smaller than KPL and Morgan, in addition he is slower.

If he was about 2 inches taller and ran a 4.5 to 4.6 instead of a 4.6 to 4.7, you can bet your ass the Seahawks would have drafted him.

So, it's really a combo of roster and scheme.

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Foster is not a SAM. He is a MIKE or WILL, and he did pick up wrs in college and did well doing so. He will play off the line, like Wright often does (who ran a 4.75 per nfl.com). (Btw who told you Foster was playing Sam? All reports from 49ers beat writets say that position is likely to be manned by Eli Harold and Amhad Btooks until a suitably faster player is found)


http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/k.j ... id=2495252



Furthermore, he didn't actually run a 40 in either the combine or his pro day, so how do you know he runs a 4.6?


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... attendance

He participated in no physical activities.




In any event, a great linebacker can run will or mike in that defense, as reaction time and vision is far more important than speed. As I said, put Derrick Brooks at Will and he diminates.

The_Z_Man":1urzwtg9 said:

5_Golden_Rings":1urzwtg9 said:

Foster is not a SAM. He is a MIKE or WILL, and he did pick up wrs in college and did well doing so. He will play off the line, like Wright often does (who ran a 4.75 per nfl.com). (Btw who told you Foster was playing Sam? All reports from 49ers beat writets say that position is likely to be manned by Eli Harold and Amhad Btooks until a suitably faster player is found)


http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/k.j ... id=2495252



Furthermore, he didn't actually run a 40 in either the combine or his pro day, so how do you know he runs a 4.6?


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... attendance

He participated in no physical activities.




In any event, a great linebacker can run will or mike in that defense, as reaction time and vision is far more important than speed. As I said, put Derrick Brooks at Will and he diminates.

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You really don't pay attention very well. That was the point I have been making since the freaking beginning.

The Seahawks need a SAM, Foster is not a SAM. End of story.

Alabama does workouts and speed training all the time, if you google stuff and look in their player pages you can see his personal best 40.


4.65

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What you said really was ambiguous in and of itself. You said the following: "And still, there is some scheme consideration. Example: They really do need a linebacker, however, the Seahawks SS linebacker, which they call SAM -- has to do a few things that Foster cannot do. "

Indicating you considered Foster a SAM, if it were read at face value within the context of my argument (which you were responding to). If, as you say now, you're simply saying that Seattle has no need for HIS position (Will/Mike), then you really didn't address my argument at all, which is that THEORETICALLY SPEAKING, Foster is capable of playing in Seattle's scheme, in his natural position. If you didn't even address that, but I assumed you did, then it is natural to assume that you believe Foster is a slow SAM.

49ers draft pick Reuben Foster’s offseason shoulder surgery reportedly ‘didn’t take’

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When Alabama linebacker Reuben Foster dropped from a potential top 10 pick all the way to the tail end of the first round of the 2017 NFL Draft, it appeared his failed drug test and hasty ejection from the Combine were to blame. Instead, the real culprit may be a bum shoulder.

Foster had surgery to repair a torn rotator cuff after Alabama’s season came to a close. However, reports suggest the procedure “didn’t take,” which may force the dynamic defender to go under the knife in the near future to correct it. Standard rotator cuff repairs can take between four to six months to fully recover from, a timeline that could put the first half of Foster’s rookie season in jeopardy.

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http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2017/5/...-foster-offseason-shoulder-surgery-didnt-take

John Clayton on 710 ESPN also just reported that GM John Lynch did not know about the full extent of the shoulder issue when they traded up to draft him, however other teams did. I seem to remember a few here thinking Lynch got one over on Schneider in that trade up for Foster. This, if true, may point more to the other John doing the schooling...

[note]
I have not seen it reported anywhere else online that SF didn't know about Foster's shoulder surgery "not taking". I can not confirm that as fact, but maybe just speculation by Clayton?

^ my thoughts are even if he sits the whole year you bought an extra year option by getting Foster in the first round. Yes it changes things if they didn't know because it speaks to not doing their due diligence properly and getting last minute information reviewed properly, BUT I doubt that they would have made a different decision if they did know.

Now if they drafted him 3rd overall - completely different discussion