Patriots In Yet Another Super Bowl

An honest question. When was the last time anyone challenged them in their division and went very far in the division? Since 2001 only the Jets and Dolphins have won that conference and both of them lost in the playoffs. Miami, Buffalo, and the Jets have been pigs for a long time. I am not saying that New England did not deserve to win but they are almost always guaranteed to be in the playoffs with the division they are in. It has been weak for years. It was kind of like our division a few years ago. Our division has changed a lot with our conference switches. We started in the NFC, went to the AFC and then back to the NFC. We have gone from being one of the weakest divisions to one of the strongest in a very short time. The Niners and Rams should be tough next year and despite AZ's record they play us tough.

ukeface: ukeface: ukeface:

BigBill1945":2ggg4iex said:

An honest question. When was the last time anyone challenged them in their division and went very far in the division? Since 2001 only the Jets and Dolphins have won that conference and both of them lost in the playoffs. Miami, Buffalo, and the Jets have been pigs for a long time. I am not saying that New England did not deserve to win but they are almost always guaranteed to be in the playoffs with the division they are in. It has been weak for years. It was kind of like our division a few years ago. Our division has changed a lot with our conference switches. We started in the NFC, went to the AFC and then back to the NFC. We have gone from being one of the weakest divisions to one of the strongest in a very short time. The Niners and Rams should be tough next year and despite AZ's record they play us tough.

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I've been saying this for a decade.

The Pats have feasted on the dumpster fire that is the AFC East for going on 15 years now. Doesn't mean they're not a great team, they most certainly are.

But it has been one of the main reasons they keep getting the #1 seed seemingly every year and go to SB's. They have a 4-5 game head start on the rest of the AFC cause every other team in the AFC East never gets good enough to make it difficult for the Pats.

HFA is EVERYTHING in the playoffs, especially when you get to the divisional and championship rounds.

Sgt. Largent":3i8f04zx said:

HFA is EVERYTHING in the playoffs, especially when you get to the divisional and championship rounds.

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While I certainly agree with you, I still have to laugh at the 'anything can happen if you make it in' battle cry that was so prominent around here during the season. It really does matter.

As for the AFC East division, has anybody ever wondered if the Patriots are the reason the other teams look so bad? The Pats usually beat teams outside of their division too and have won plenty of Super Bowls.

pittpnthrs":3cfmpoz1 said:

Sgt. Largent":3cfmpoz1 said:

HFA is EVERYTHING in the playoffs, especially when you get to the divisional and championship rounds.

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While I certainly agree with you, I still have to laugh at the 'anything can happen if you make it in' battle cry that was so prominent around here during the season. It really does matter.

As for the AFC East division, has anybody ever wondered if the Patriots are the reason the other teams look so bad? The Pats usually beat teams outside of their division too and have won plenty of Super Bowls.

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Surely that is part of it. But AFC east excluding the Pats have had an unimpressive record outside their league too. There is much greater odds you will come out ahead with home cooking too.

pittpnthrs":3nw89srp said:

As for the AFC East division, has anybody ever wondered if the Patriots are the reason the other teams look so bad? The Pats usually beat teams outside of their division too and have won plenty of Super Bowls.

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Then why are most of their losses in any year outside the division.

Yes once in a while they lose a game like they did this year in Miami, but look at their conference record the past 15 years, it's most always 5-1 or 6-0.

Again, that's a 4-5 game cushion over the entire AFC year after year. So no one can tell me this is not one of the MAJOR factors they're going for their 6th Lombardi.

lobohawk":jjzwu6o6 said:

It’s tiresome, but give them credit for doing their job.

Still bugs me that they’re almost guaranteed playoff berth, and not a WC berth, every year. Name the last quality division team. The couple years the Jets had Pennington? Even they weren’t that good. Before that it was Jim Kelly and the Bills in 93 (cough, cough...before Bill and Brady).

Seems most of the other divisions have surges of real competition arise. Look at NFC West, it’s championship caliber coming from all parts. And while it helps toughen those team, it’s an odds game. Quality teams always in the playoffs, will always win more.

The Hooded One is a master coach for sure and Brady top shelf. Worked out for the Pats. But I remember when they were doormats and they’ll get there again when Bill is gone.

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This is the argument ive made about that shitty division on here but nobody wants to agree

In OUR division EVERY TEAM has been to the Superbowl since Brady has been in the league...EVERY SINGLE ONE. The NFC W actually has 6 SB appearances since Brady has been in the league.

The best QB from the other 3 teams combined has been what Pennington, maybe an old Favre for a year or two....There have been 43 other starting QBs in the AFC East from the other 3 teams...that is flipping rediculous.

Dolphins
John Beck, Daunte Culpepper, A.J. Feeley, Jay Fiedler, Gus Frerotte, Trent Green, Brian Griese, Joey Harrington, Chad Henne, Cleo Lemon, Ray Lucas, Matt Moore, Chad Pennington, Sage Rosenfels, Ryan Tannehill and Tyler Thigpen.

Bills
Drew Bledsoe, Brian Brohm, Matt Cassel, Trent Edwards, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Kelly Holcomb, Rob Johnson, Thaddeus Lewis, J.P. Losman, EJ Manuel, Kyle Orton, Tyrod Taylor, Jeff Tuel and Alex Van Pelt

Jets
Brooks Bollinger, Quincy Carter, Kellen Clemens, Brett Favre, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Greg McElroy, Chad Pennington, Bryce Petty, Mark Sanchez, Geno Smith, Vinny Testaverde and Mike Vick.

Sgt. Largent":1wpf4w0g said:

BigBill1945":1wpf4w0g said:

An honest question. When was the last time anyone challenged them in their division and went very far in the division? Since 2001 only the Jets and Dolphins have won that conference and both of them lost in the playoffs. Miami, Buffalo, and the Jets have been pigs for a long time. I am not saying that New England did not deserve to win but they are almost always guaranteed to be in the playoffs with the division they are in. It has been weak for years. It was kind of like our division a few years ago. Our division has changed a lot with our conference switches. We started in the NFC, went to the AFC and then back to the NFC. We have gone from being one of the weakest divisions to one of the strongest in a very short time. The Niners and Rams should be tough next year and despite AZ's record they play us tough.

Click to expand...

I've been saying this for a decade.

The Pats have feasted on the dumpster fire that is the AFC East for going on 15 years now. Doesn't mean they're not a great team, they most certainly are.

But it has been one of the main reasons they keep getting the #1 seed seemingly every year and go to SB's. They have a 4-5 game head start on the rest of the AFC cause every other team in the AFC East never gets good enough to make it difficult for the Pats.

HFA is EVERYTHING in the playoffs, especially when you get to the divisional and championship rounds.

Click to expand...

If I may, NE's winning pct within the division is almost identical to their winning pct outside the division. In a typical season they go either 5-1 or 4-2 in the division, and 13-3 or 12-4 overall. Same win rate.

50yrpatsfan":2h5eb71w said:

Sgt. Largent":2h5eb71w said:

BigBill1945":2h5eb71w said:

An honest question. When was the last time anyone challenged them in their division and went very far in the division? Since 2001 only the Jets and Dolphins have won that conference and both of them lost in the playoffs. Miami, Buffalo, and the Jets have been pigs for a long time. I am not saying that New England did not deserve to win but they are almost always guaranteed to be in the playoffs with the division they are in. It has been weak for years. It was kind of like our division a few years ago. Our division has changed a lot with our conference switches. We started in the NFC, went to the AFC and then back to the NFC. We have gone from being one of the weakest divisions to one of the strongest in a very short time. The Niners and Rams should be tough next year and despite AZ's record they play us tough.

Click to expand...

I've been saying this for a decade.

The Pats have feasted on the dumpster fire that is the AFC East for going on 15 years now. Doesn't mean they're not a great team, they most certainly are.

But it has been one of the main reasons they keep getting the #1 seed seemingly every year and go to SB's. They have a 4-5 game head start on the rest of the AFC cause every other team in the AFC East never gets good enough to make it difficult for the Pats.

HFA is EVERYTHING in the playoffs, especially when you get to the divisional and championship rounds.

Click to expand...

If I may, NE's winning pct within the division is almost identical to their winning pct outside the division. In a typical season they go either 5-1 or 4-2 in the division, and 13-3 or 12-4 overall. Same win rate.

Click to expand...

The entire AFC is usually garbage though and usually very top heavy....

You have the Pats....usually the Steelers/Ravens and then whatever team Manning was on

Those 4 teams also the only ones to go to the Superbowl I believe in the whole time Brady has been there

WilsonMVP":2pwjoh4o said:

50yrpatsfan":2pwjoh4o said:

Sgt. Largent":2pwjoh4o said:

BigBill1945":2pwjoh4o said:

An honest question. When was the last time anyone challenged them in their division and went very far in the division? Since 2001 only the Jets and Dolphins have won that conference and both of them lost in the playoffs. Miami, Buffalo, and the Jets have been pigs for a long time. I am not saying that New England did not deserve to win but they are almost always guaranteed to be in the playoffs with the division they are in. It has been weak for years. It was kind of like our division a few years ago. Our division has changed a lot with our conference switches. We started in the NFC, went to the AFC and then back to the NFC. We have gone from being one of the weakest divisions to one of the strongest in a very short time. The Niners and Rams should be tough next year and despite AZ's record they play us tough.

Click to expand...

I've been saying this for a decade.

The Pats have feasted on the dumpster fire that is the AFC East for going on 15 years now. Doesn't mean they're not a great team, they most certainly are.

But it has been one of the main reasons they keep getting the #1 seed seemingly every year and go to SB's. They have a 4-5 game head start on the rest of the AFC cause every other team in the AFC East never gets good enough to make it difficult for the Pats.

HFA is EVERYTHING in the playoffs, especially when you get to the divisional and championship rounds.

Click to expand...

If I may, NE's winning pct within the division is almost identical to their winning pct outside the division. In a typical season they go either 5-1 or 4-2 in the division, and 13-3 or 12-4 overall. Same win rate.

Click to expand...

The entire AFC is usually garbage though and usually very top heavy....

You have the Pats....usually the Steelers/Ravens and then whatever team Manning was on

Those 4 teams also the only ones to go to the Superbowl I believe in the whole time Brady has been there

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I would say that is pretty accurate.

seahawkfreak":1sef3ie4 said:

Late 80's Niners would put a beating on this team. Along with 86 Giants, late 80's Redskins and mid 80's Bears.

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I disagree. The size/speed difference between today's teams and those teams from the 80s/90s is huge. "The Hogs" averaged 273lbs. That is nothing in today's game.

WmHBonney":yzu6js9p said:

seahawkfreak":yzu6js9p said:

Late 80's Niners would put a beating on this team. Along with 86 Giants, late 80's Redskins and mid 80's Bears.

Click to expand...

I disagree. The size/speed difference between today's teams and those teams from the 80s/90s is huge. "The Hogs" averaged 273lbs. That is nothing in today's game.

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Yes, the absolutist view of these "all-time arguments" can get really lame really fast.

Those players on are all in their 50's and 60's so yes a team of players in their 20's would kill them.

It is pure fantasy and conjecture. The teams that won before free agency are not that impressive anymore, sure it was fun that you got to know all the players on every team but if your team sucked your team was going to suck for a long time.

The 49ers had Steve Young on the bench for almost a decade before he took over. That would never happen today. That Cowboys team could have won 4 Superbowls in a row if it was not for free agency.

As for the Patriots. They are to Cobra Kai dojo of the NFL, they sweep the leg every time. They get old on offense and stay young on defense.

WmHBonney":29qq2id5 said:

seahawkfreak":29qq2id5 said:

Late 80's Niners would put a beating on this team. Along with 86 Giants, late 80's Redskins and mid 80's Bears.

Click to expand...

I disagree. The size/speed difference between today's teams and those teams from the 80s/90s is huge. "The Hogs" averaged 273lbs. That is nothing in today's game.

Click to expand...

Yeah, lot of variables. Today's rules vs. 80's rules. The 89 49ers though were just sick. Everyone remembers their offense but their defense was one of the best too.

Also let us not forget the 96 Packers who had the #1 offense and the #1 defense in the NFL. Almost unheard of today and 1996 was in the FA era.

My knee-jerk reaction is to say "bleh" over nothing but Brady, Brady, Brady in the playoffs and usually the Super Bowl. I don't like him, and I don't like the Pats. I'd love to see the other teams win that division. But I temper those thoughts with the knowledge we are truly seeing one of the greats. As much as we (as rival fans) hate to see him win, there has to be a certain respect and admiration for the way he plays the game.

Sure, the division is crap. And usually that means the team that wins it wins too easily and is a lot softer than it seems on paper. The Colts come to mind there. For a long while, perennial easy winners of a crap division with two back-to-back solid quarterbacks, and they have one Super Bowl to show for it, against a flash-in-the-pan Bears team. The Colts played in a crappy division and it showed.

The Patriots, on the other hand, are the opposite. They play in a crappy division, but are not crappy to show for it. They're always tough. They have an astounding record in the playoffs, and the Super Bowl wins to prove it. They find a way to win, no matter what, and a lot of that fact is due to Brady.

Like it or not, he's a special player. Refs, crappy division, pretty boy, it's only because Belechick is his coach: no matter your argument, it's hard to argue he isn't really pretty special, and we're seeing a great player live and in person with him.

BigBill1945":1ogalzl5 said:

I will be in Vegas during the Superbowl. I do not plan on watching it. I will find something more constructive to do. If I bet a hundred dollars on the Pats I would probably make about 2 dollars. No drama there.

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I'll be there too. I want the Eagles to win, but I'd be hesitant to take them at the current Philly +5 1/2.
If that grows significantly, I'd feel better.

WmHBonney":1s7aprdp said:

seahawkfreak":1s7aprdp said:

Late 80's Niners would put a beating on this team. Along with 86 Giants, late 80's Redskins and mid 80's Bears.

Click to expand...

I disagree. The size/speed difference between today's teams and those teams from the 80s/90s is huge. "The Hogs" averaged 273lbs. That is nothing in today's game.

Click to expand...

Depends on which era's rules you're using.

You gonna let Ronnie Lott and Charles Haley hit Brady and company? Or are they going to be flagged 20 times a game for breathing on the WR's wrong like today's rules?

I'd put Montana, Rice, Clark, Francis, Craig and that nasty defense with hall of famers all over it up against any team in history, especially the Patriots of today.

Brady may be the GOAT, but there's literally NO ONE else on the Pat's roster right now that'd even crack those Niner rosters.

Sgt. Largent":1juqrv75 said:

WmHBonney":1juqrv75 said:

seahawkfreak":1juqrv75 said:

Late 80's Niners would put a beating on this team. Along with 86 Giants, late 80's Redskins and mid 80's Bears.

Click to expand...

I disagree. The size/speed difference between today's teams and those teams from the 80s/90s is huge. "The Hogs" averaged 273lbs. That is nothing in today's game.

Click to expand...

Depends on which era's rules you're using.

You gonna let Ronnie Lott and Charles Haley hit Brady and company? Or are they going to be flagged 20 times a game for breathing on the WR's wrong like today's rules?

I'd put Montana, Rice, Clark, Francis, Craig and that nasty defense with hall of famers all over it up against any team in history, especially the Patriots of today.

Brady may be the GOAT, but there's literally NO ONE else on the Pat's roster right now that'd even crack those Niner rosters.

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I totally agree with you. I loved the Niners back then until I came to Seattle. I started to dislike the Niners when Harbaugh coached them.

Sgt. Largent":3cab8iku said:

WmHBonney":3cab8iku said:

seahawkfreak":3cab8iku said:

Late 80's Niners would put a beating on this team. Along with 86 Giants, late 80's Redskins and mid 80's Bears.

Click to expand...

I disagree. The size/speed difference between today's teams and those teams from the 80s/90s is huge. "The Hogs" averaged 273lbs. That is nothing in today's game.

Click to expand...

Depends on which era's rules you're using.

You gonna let Ronnie Lott and Charles Haley hit Brady and company? Or are they going to be flagged 20 times a game for breathing on the WR's wrong like today's rules?

I'd put Montana, Rice, Clark, Francis, Craig and that nasty defense with hall of famers all over it up against any team in history, especially the Patriots of today.

Brady may be the GOAT, but there's literally NO ONE else on the Pat's roster right now that'd even crack those Niner rosters.

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It's really silly to compare eras. And your argument about rules would hold water the Patriots played by today's rules, and the 49ers played by 80s rules within the same game. And even then, the size and speed difference would be remarkable and I don't know if it would even matter.

And that's not even mentioning the evolution in coaching and schemes, as the west coast offense that was run by those 49ers would be very vanilla and easily out-schemed by any competent coach today.

I honestly love it... it's like the 90s era Bulls.

A team to hate. Beat the best... makes for drama.

There is always this....Sorry FEF....