The One That Got Away, Golden Tate

Own The West · Feb 22, 2018

Was there some other Golden Tate on this team I don't know about?

The one that I'm familiar with was jumping into the opponents' band, stealing donuts, getting taunting and other dumb penalties, and just basically an embarrassment. He was more an athlete than a receiver and never inspired confidence.

His 'success' in Detroit imho is based on 120-150 targets in that pass-happy offense, not any kind of dominance. The pinnacle of his career was 4 years ago when Megatron went down pushing his targets up and inflating his stats enough to get him an injury replacement invite to the pro bowl.

That was four years ago. Megatron is gone and he's never come close to those numbers again. In the meantime, Kearse would have had better numbers than him with similar targets and Kearse was way cheaper.

Not as big a waste of talent as Harvin, but still in the "good riddance" category for me.

TwistedHusky · Feb 22, 2018

The idea that Carroll just 'lost his inside info' is probably closer to false.

We had Scott.

Go back and look at the players he was responsible for bringing in on the 49ers. You will notice a lot of names you recognize because they were some of the best players in the NFL at their position.

It wasn't Carroll losing his insight, it was Carroll losing Scott.

He did this before.

Now the absolute stream of HOF quality players that we brought in on those 2-3 drafts was likely the combination of Scott and JS being able to complement each other so well in identifying players they needed to get. Hell, some of our castoffs from those drafts became starters on other teams.

But regardless, without Scott, Carroll and JS became very average if not BELOW AVERAGE in scouting players.

Now admittedly, we had more picks too. We would run 3 4th or 5th rounders and only one would turn out. But those that did turned into stellar players. But now more picks is just more opportunity to pick guys that probably are not going to do much. Because either the scouting or the process changed. Likely both.

This has implications because it means the Seahawks are not likely to get back to the top of the mountain for some time. Maybe long after Carroll and JS are gone. We do not have the ability to replace good players with great players consistently like we did. We cannot generate depth.

Sure guys like Frank Clark hit, but every team gets a few hits. We do not consistently get good players from each draft and consequently our team gets older and weaker each year, with no way to offset the attrition with new performers.

Tate was the indicator that this would be no dynasty. It was the turning point for this team, from being dominant, to being one or two yards from winning the SB, to scratching to get in the playoffs & being blown out after the wildcard, and finally to not even making the playoffs. A lot of losses we endured and a lot of the other issues would never have been encountered if we kept Tate.

It was pretty obvious at the time, and the fact the FO missed so badly turned this team from one of the great potential Dynasties to essentially a One-Year-Wonder.
(It did a lot for Brady's legacy though since the Patriots had not won a SB in years until we handed it to them.)

TwistedHusky · Feb 22, 2018

West,

If we kept Tate we had a returner. That means shorter fields and more scores.

If we do not bother with Harvin and keep Tate - all the dominoes associated with Harvin and the missed draft picks accordingly do not happen. And we don't likely get Graham so we don't decimate our run game.

And finally, Tate was putting up better #s than Baldwin. So I don't care if he is stealing donuts or taunting guys or peeing on the field. Just score TDs, and he moved the chains + scored regularly.

What he does off the field I could care less about.

But to believe this team was not worse off without Tate is stunningly ridiculous.

sc85sis · Feb 24, 2018

TwistedHusky":oy374mvk said:
The idea that Carroll just 'lost his inside info' is probably closer to false.

We had Scott.

Go back and look at the players he was responsible for bringing in on the 49ers. You will notice a lot of names you recognize because they were some of the best players in the NFL at their position.

It wasn't Carroll losing his insight, it was Carroll losing Scott.

He did this before.

Now the absolute stream of HOF quality players that we brought in on those 2-3 drafts was likely the combination of Scott and JS being able to complement each other so well in identifying players they needed to get. Hell, some of our castoffs from those drafts became starters on other teams.

But regardless, without Scott, Carroll and JS became very average if not BELOW AVERAGE in scouting players.

Now admittedly, we had more picks too. We would run 3 4th or 5th rounders and only one would turn out. But those that did turned into stellar players. But now more picks is just more opportunity to pick guys that probably are not going to do much. Because either the scouting or the process changed. Likely both.

This has implications because it means the Seahawks are not likely to get back to the top of the mountain for some time. Maybe long after Carroll and JS are gone. We do not have the ability to replace good players with great players consistently like we did. We cannot generate depth.

Sure guys like Frank Clark hit, but every team gets a few hits. We do not consistently get good players from each draft and consequently our team gets older and weaker each year, with no way to offset the attrition with new performers.

Tate was the indicator that this would be no dynasty. It was the turning point for this team, from being dominant, to being one or two yards from winning the SB, to scratching to get in the playoffs & being blown out after the wildcard, and finally to not even making the playoffs. A lot of losses we endured and a lot of the other issues would never have been encountered if we kept Tate.

It was pretty obvious at the time, and the fact the FO missed so badly turned this team from one of the great potential Dynasties to essentially a One-Year-Wonder.
(It did a lot for Brady's legacy though since the Patriots had not won a SB in years until we handed it to them.)

Off the top of my head, these are players Pete had personal knowledge of from recruiting, coaching or competing against them while he was at USC:

Golden Tate
Walter Thurmond
Anthony McCoy
Marshawn Lynch
Mike Williams
Malcolm Smith
Mike Morgan
Richard Sherman
Brandon Browner
Doug Baldwin
Bruce Irvin

Walter and Anthony had injury issues and Mike flamed out after two years. The rest were all part of our Super Bowl team.

Pete was known as one of the best, hardest-working recruiters as a head coach in college football. When the NCAA passed the rule colloquially referred to as the "Saban rule" that limited a head coach's ability to recruit in the spring, Pete was quoted on record as saying other head coaches were just "lazy" and didn't want to travel to meet with high school recruits' coaches and teachers in person the way he and Saban routinely did. (https://www.si.com/more-sports/2008/04/29/coaches-0429 and http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1821 ... ion-Period)

To discount the impact he had on drafting and UFA signings in the first few years he was head coach in Seattle makes no sense at all.

MontanaHawk05 · Feb 24, 2018

TwistedHusky":2egi4ej6 said:
That was the turning point.

With Tate, we probably win 1-2 more SBs.

We probably lose a few guys along the way, Bevel gets a new HC job because someone foolishly thinks it is his great playcalling that gets us those wins.

Kam might have been harder to keep after the 2nd SB win but if we kept him I doubt we get the holdout since that was due to Harvin and that terrible guy from the Eagles getting big contracts.

We probably don't get Graham because we don't freak out to 'fix' the offense after the SB loss. But we probably keep Unger because again, we don't freak out after the SB loss.

Lynch probably retires after the 2nd SB win, does a bunch of commercials and ends up very likely in the HOF (even with the lack of yards because we would have essentially ridden to 2 SBs on his back).

Carroll with 2-3 SB wins goes down as a great coach and potential HOF guy. And the Seahawks end up the dynasty we all were hoping for.

So...we win 2 Super Bowls, but miss the playoffs 2015-2016 and never sniff contention again. That's basically what you're saying.

Not sure how I feel about that. Would people really consider that a dynasty?

Face it, guys, letting Tate go was exactly the kind of move everyone's been moaning that the front office SHOULD be making and ISN'T. Letting guys walk after their first contract, cheap new guys, keep 'em hungry, blah blah blah because something something Belichick. And Tate is only the start of that list. Russell Okung, Max Unger, Bruce Irvin, Brandon Browner, Red Bryant, Brandon Mebane, Byron Maxwell, and I could add more. The reason we've been as close as we HAVE is because we didn't keep extending these guys.

So we have to choose a reality: either the front office isn't as loyalty-driven as everyone suggests, or the whole "something something Belichick" mentality is a load of sentimental horse dung.

Seahawkfan80 · Feb 24, 2018

Own The West":2e7y3q1j said:
Was there some other Golden Tate on this team I don't know about?

The one that I'm familiar with was jumping into the opponents' band, stealing donuts, getting taunting and other dumb penalties, and just basically an embarrassment. He was more an athlete than a receiver and never inspired confidence.

His 'success' in Detroit imho is based on 120-150 targets in that pass-happy offense, not any kind of dominance. The pinnacle of his career was 4 years ago when Megatron went down pushing his targets up and inflating his stats enough to get him an injury replacement invite to the pro bowl.

That was four years ago. Megatron is gone and he's never come close to those numbers again. In the meantime, Kearse would have had better numbers than him with similar targets and Kearse was way cheaper.

Not as big a waste of talent as Harvin, but still in the "good riddance" category for me.

To add a penny more to this post if I may, Tate also would catch the ball at the line of scrimmage and step back 2 yards and then get a 1 or 2 yard gain....on the seahawks.

Tate also was Megatron 1.2 which means they had 2 legitimate receivers that would create mis matches all over the field. And yes Detroit was a passhappy team. Double one guy, there is the other one. We all on this site noted it back then.

massari · Feb 24, 2018

MontanaHawk05":1s6e76rr said:
Face it, guys, letting Tate go was exactly the kind of move everyone's been moaning that the front office SHOULD be making and ISN'T. Letting guys walk after their first contract, cheap new guys, keep 'em hungry, blah blah blah because something something Belichick.

I doubt that everyone wanted to let go of 25 year old Golden Tate for $6M per season.

Popeyejones · Feb 25, 2018

massari":nfuq5irf said:
I doubt that everyone wanted to let go of 25 year old Golden Tate for $6M per season.

looks like it was pretty mixed:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=91313&p=1297162&hilit=Golden+Tate#p1297162

RolandDeschain · Feb 25, 2018

Popeyejones":3sc260j4 said:
massari":3sc260j4 said:

I doubt that everyone wanted to let go of 25 year old Golden Tate for $6M per season.

Click to expand...

looks like it was pretty mixed:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=91313&p=1297162&hilit=Golden+Tate#p1297162

Good man, bringing hard facts to the conversation - even if you are a 49ers fan. :lol:

The One That Got Away, Golden Tate

Own The West

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TwistedHusky

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TwistedHusky

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sc85sis

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MontanaHawk05

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Seahawkfan80

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massari

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Popeyejones

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RolandDeschain

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