Richard Sherman = Nnamdi Asomugha?

hawkfan68":raq96iap said:

chris98251":raq96iap said:

drrew":raq96iap said:

Sherman was elite for a lot longer than Nnamdi was (who I love as he went to my HS), but I think their absolute peaks are similar.

Nnamdi got exposed moving to a different system, we'll see what happens with Sherman.

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They use our system.

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They don't have Earl Thomas. They can use the system, they don't have the type of players the Seahawks do to execute it. It'll be interesting to see how not having Thomas back there anymore impacts Sherman. If you look it his work objectively, Sherman does get beat quite a bit. He's successful with the "bigger" type of receivers like Bryant, etc but it's the small TY Hilton types that burn him.

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I don't think anyone in SF is expecting the same D in SF that was in Seattle during that run.

I don't think anyone in SF is expecting Adrian Colbert (who was a really nice find last year) to be Earl Thomas.

However, not being one of the best players ever at the position doesn't mean they can't be effective with different personnel.

The Jags run the same system and had one of the best Ds in the NFL without Earl Thomas. Now they have 2 great CBs, lightning fast LBs and a great pass rush, but my point is that the system works with different personnel.

I'm not expecting the Seahawks circa 2012 or the Jags circa 2017...but I do think Sherman can be very effective.

All the Niners are really missing on D right now is another LB (although not sure on that one...might see Foster, Smith, Warner or Foster, Smith, Harold...this of course assumes Foster is cleared) and a true Leo (Its hard for me to call it that. I always want to call it an Elephant).

You're right Popeye, the rivalry will come back a little now.

Our system if anyone has forgotten is also about using a players strengths to enhance what the system tries to do and adapt accordingly, this is what makes Pete so damn good and dangerous, remember the Bandit package in Chicago when we had only one LB available for that game if I remember correctly.

Marvin49":2p8rn4ty said:

The Jags run the same system and had one of the best Ds in the NFL without Earl Thomas. Now they have 2 great CBs, lightning fast LBs and a great pass rush, but my point is that the system works with different personnel.

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Not super-closely related to the Sherm talk, but even with the shutdown CBs, elite pass rush and LBs, the Jags were still susceptible to the deep pass when facing good QBs because their safeties weren't that great. Also, I noticed that many of the big runs they gave up were because their safeties were out of position at the second/third level to make the tackle. As badly as they did smother us most of the game, Wilson was able to throw three deep TD passes against them and Ben and the Steelers had great success with the deep ball against them in the playoff game, despite taking the L ultimately. Brady was also able to exploit them, but not to the same extent. Also, the Jags run a lot more Cover 4 than we did/do. Regardless, their D was more than good enough to win the SB, so I get your point overall.

To hawkfan2018, Sherman didn't objectively get beat quite often. I'm not sure where you're getting that. He did get beat, but at a much lower rate than most CBs. This is a long read, but I haven't seen anyone else chart every single snap Sherman had in coverage.

http://presnapreads.com/2014/02/19/rich ... dict-2014/

drrew":2804rtox said:

Sherman was elite for a lot longer than Nnamdi was (who I love as he went to my HS), but I think their absolute peaks are similar.

Nnamdi got exposed moving to a different system, we'll see what happens with Sherman.

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As chris pointed out, the 49ers have completely copied the Seahawks system. They have a former Seahawks coaching staff member as their DC (I believe he was Defensive Quality Control, before following the Seahawks D-coordinator to Jacksonville, who also copied the Seahawks system).

AKNFidel":1lfqgxcj said:

I’ve always wondered about Sherman’s abilities minus Kam and Earl behind him, I guess we’ll see how he performs without 2 outstanding Safeties behind him.


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For a Seahawks fan I'm surprised you don't know that Kam usually plays in the box, not behind Sherman. In Pete Caroll's system, the cornerbacks roles are often almost a blend between CB and safety. They don't usually have anyone "behind" them, just someone covering the deep middle for them (Earl Thomas, who is probably the best in the league at it).

SoulfishHawk":zrqpkf8s said:

Can't wait to see Baldwin torch him :lol:

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IMHO it's less about Baldwin and more about Wilson. I'm not saying Baldwin isn't good. I'm saying he's not as good as people think, because NO ONE can continually lock someone down for 5 seconds or more, like you have to do when you're playing against Russell Wilson.

As a side note, I'm continually surprised at how underrated he is on this board among Seahawk fans. Yeah, it's true he's not the best at running a progression offense and keeping everything on time, but his scrambling ability is Hall of Fame worthy. It puts so much pressure on a defense that any weakness his height brings (which sometimes causes problems in the pocket for him) is absolutely mitigated and then some.

Not to mention he has a golden arm.



So yeah, Baldwin is good. But he wouldn't be what he is without Wilson's ability to extend the play and his tremendous accuracy and touch, particularly on deep balls.

5_Golden_Rings":2al2u4co said:

SoulfishHawk":2al2u4co said:

Can't wait to see Baldwin torch him :lol:

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IMHO it's less about Baldwin and more about Wilson. I'm not saying Baldwin isn't good. I'm saying he's not as good as people think, because NO ONE can continually lock someone down for 5 seconds or more, like you have to do when you're playing against Russell Wilson.

As a side note, I'm continually surprised at how underrated he is on this board among Seahawk fans. Yeah, it's true he's not the best at running a progression offense and keeping everything on time, but his scrambling ability is Hall of Fame worthy. It puts so much pressure on a defense that any weakness his height brings (which sometimes causes problems in the pocket for him) is absolutely mitigated and then some.

Not to mention he has a golden arm.



So yeah, Baldwin is good. But he wouldn't be what he is without Wilson's ability to extend the play and his tremendous accuracy and touch, particularly on deep balls.

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You really need to watch Baldwin get off the line, he is really good, if Wilson could throw on time it would be almost Largent like, whom by the way was teaching him the technique for a while.

Baldwins ability to follow the scramble drill and find holes is a whole different type of talent.

chris98251":2114rkg4 said:

5_Golden_Rings":2114rkg4 said:

SoulfishHawk":2114rkg4 said:

Can't wait to see Baldwin torch him :lol:

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IMHO it's less about Baldwin and more about Wilson. I'm not saying Baldwin isn't good. I'm saying he's not as good as people think, because NO ONE can continually lock someone down for 5 seconds or more, like you have to do when you're playing against Russell Wilson.

As a side note, I'm continually surprised at how underrated he is on this board among Seahawk fans. Yeah, it's true he's not the best at running a progression offense and keeping everything on time, but his scrambling ability is Hall of Fame worthy. It puts so much pressure on a defense that any weakness his height brings (which sometimes causes problems in the pocket for him) is absolutely mitigated and then some.

Not to mention he has a golden arm.



So yeah, Baldwin is good. But he wouldn't be what he is without Wilson's ability to extend the play and his tremendous accuracy and touch, particularly on deep balls.

Click to expand...

You really need to watch Baldwin get off the line, he is really good, if Wilson could throw on time it would be almost Largent like, whom by the way was teaching him the technique for a while.

Baldwins ability to follow the scramble drill and find holes is a whole different type of talent.

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Yeah, Baldwin would be even better in a timing based system, his release and route running are top tier even if his athleticism isn't.

Baldwin would be insane in Shanahan's offense

Maybe you guys are right, but Wilson's abilities behind the line of scrimmage are jaw dropping, and his arc and touch are top notch, and I can't see how that doesn't help every WR he has, especially his primary one.

You'd be surprised how many Hawks fans on here think Russ doesn't throw a good deep ball :roll:
Though he pretty much can do nothing right as far as they see it. He's only the best QB in team history.

5_Golden_Rings":1v4g7ly4 said:

Maybe you guys are right, but Wilson's abilities behind the line of scrimmage are jaw dropping, and his arc and touch are top notch, and I can't see how that doesn't help every WR he has, especially his primary one.

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It does help in some ways, but the way the offense is designed and the fact that Wilson does miss some quick reads probably hurts Baldwin more than it helps him. If he was in the type of system Brees, Brady, Stafford, or Rivers play in, he would be a monster.

SoulfishHawk":26qs7a3f said:

You'd be surprised how many Hawks fans on here think Russ doesn't throw a good deep ball :roll:
Though he pretty much can do nothing right as far as they see it. He's only the best QB in team history.

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Wilson's deep ball has single handedly kept him a good QB all by itself. Nothing makes me more nervous than Wilson cranking one deep when safety coverage is not nearby.

If those Hawk fans claiming Wilson is top 5 but no good deep ball, they don't know their QB that well.

Here's the deal with Sherman:

I always thought he was a good corner, but a lot of that "best in the league" narrative I felt was being on the Seahawks (with Earl backing him up and Cliff & Michael hurrying the QB) and of course what some of us felt was questionable hand play in coverage.

It will be some time before Sherman gets that level of support again and I will be very curious how he uses his hands in coverage this year.

My expectations from him are good but not sky high. I think his overall package with his leadership will count quite a bit in improving the pass defense.

If however he plays like a stud this season, there will be no way to deny his greatness.

Baldwin’s primary assets are his route running and consistency. He’s a really good player.

Over the years I’ve waxed poetic on the few areas in Wilson’s game in which I think he still has room for improvement, but the deep ball just isn’t one of them. Anyone who watches football and criticizes Wilson’s deep ball just doesn’t know what they’re watching.

Nnamdi didn’t have Earl Thomas, but then at his prime Nnamdi didn’t need help. He was an excellent man on man shut down cover.


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NINEster":zf4lxskj said:

Here's the deal with Sherman:

I always thought he was a good corner, but a lot of that "best in the league" narrative I felt was being on the Seahawks (with Earl backing him up and Cliff & Michael hurrying the QB) and of course what some of us felt was questionable hand play in coverage.

It will be some time before Sherman gets that level of support again and I will be very curious how he uses his hands in coverage this year.

My expectations from him are good but not sky high. I think his overall package with his leadership will count quite a bit in improving the pass defense.

If however he plays like a stud this season, there will be no way to deny his greatness.

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Good to see Sherm running full speed and taking on the leadership. It appears he has bought into the niners so he seems less of a malcontent. Young guys will obviously appreciate his knowledge and confidence.
IMO, besides his size his best attributes has always been a willingness to anticipate/challenge a pass and his speed to recover after being out of position as he does get turned around and will jump routes. Whether he can get back to form depends on his achilles tendon and any potential complications following surgery.

Popeyejones":3pr2etf3 said:

Baldwin’s primary assets are his route running and consistency. He’s a really good player.

Over the years I’ve waxed poetic on the few areas in Wilson’s game in which I think he still has room for improvement, but the deep ball just isn’t one of them. Anyone who watches football and criticizes Wilson’s deep ball just doesn’t know what they’re watching.

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Yet I've seen our own fans here complain Wilson's deep ball is just "chuck and pray" ukeface:

On topic... Saw a vid of Sherm at OTAs talking to Witherspoon and the other corners. Felt WRONG