loafoftatupu
Active member
RolandDeschain":25vlc9w1 said:
I TOTALLY understand/agree with that quote. It applies to so many other areas.
GURLEY Is a FRAUD
- Thread starter Fade
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I TOTALLY understand/agree with that quote. It applies to so many other areas.
OP
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Fade
Well-known member
knownone":19jv3h7t said:
PFF apparently doesn't either as they agree with me.
[tweet]https://twitter.com/PFF_AustinGayle/status/1072901727664390144[/tweet]
"With high-profile running backs like Todd Gurley and Ezekiel Elliott owning the box score in the NFC, Seattle Seahawks’ Chris Carson has unjustly missed the spotlight in 2018. However, following his mightily impressive 2018 campaign, it’s Carson – not the aforementioned backs – who gets our Pro Bowl vote." -PFF
Boycie
Well-known member
Fade":2y79si0s said:
And an injured one at that due to the beating that CC takes game in game out to get his yards.
Zimmer called Carson one of if not the best running back in the league. Carson is just missing one final step in his run game and that’s the long runs, but you can’t find a more willing bruiser than that man.
Regarding Gurley - he’s a good back benefiting from a great offense cough*alexander*cough.
Regarding Gurley - he’s a good back benefiting from a great offense cough*alexander*cough.
Carson is a beast. So glad he’s a Hawk.
No way Gurley or Elliot are frauds. They just happen to rely upon a different skill set/traits than a power back.
Vision, burst, power, elusiveness, explosiveness are the tools of the trade. Broken tackles are just one metric. Total yards in conjunction with yards per carry is more meaningful.
I would love to see Gurley in a Hawks uniform. Pete would keep him busy but then again, that’s why we got Penny.
No way Gurley or Elliot are frauds. They just happen to rely upon a different skill set/traits than a power back.
Vision, burst, power, elusiveness, explosiveness are the tools of the trade. Broken tackles are just one metric. Total yards in conjunction with yards per carry is more meaningful.
I would love to see Gurley in a Hawks uniform. Pete would keep him busy but then again, that’s why we got Penny.
SoulfishHawk
Well-known member
Yeah, Ram player or not, Gurley is a flat out beast. As is Zeke.
tmobilchawker79
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Rams = Outside stretch zone. Gurley doesn't do a lot between the tackles unless i'm mistaken. So he's usually got a OLB or CB or S to beat and then runs OB. Repeat.
Fade":39qr4s1p said:
Gurley would be the system on most teams and the threat of Gurley is the oil in McVay's offensive machine.
I hope your right though, he's the guy I worry about when we play the Rams O. Great back, great receiver.. he'd look good with a Hawks jersey on.
Where do they call Todd Gurley a fraud and talk about how he'd be pedestrian in Seattle's offense? Oh, they don't? So PFF doesn't agree with you...Fade":u9rxkcx0 said:knownone":u9rxkcx0 said:
PFF apparently doesn't either as they agree with me.
[tweet]https://twitter.com/PFF_AustinGayle/status/1072901727664390144[/tweet]
"With high-profile running backs like Todd Gurley and Ezekiel Elliott owning the box score in the NFC, Seattle Seahawks’ Chris Carson has unjustly missed the spotlight in 2018. However, following his mightily impressive 2018 campaign, it’s Carson – not the aforementioned backs – who gets our Pro Bowl vote." -PFF
I don't understand this strawman, no one is saying Chris Carson isn't a great running back. We are saying Todd Gurley isn't a fraud and he'd still be good in Seattle's offense.
Here's some food for thought, Seattle's best rushing game of the season came without Carson. The Seahawks ran for more yards that day than the Rams second-leading rusher has all season. The Rams second-leading rusher would be 5th in total rushing yards on Seattle.
Todd Gurley would be the Seahawks second best receiver. He as many TDs as Carson, Moore, and Lockett combined and he has 5 fewer fumbles than those 3 despite touching the ball 40 more times. He also has more yards than Lockett and Carson combined. In the last two years, the Rams are undefeated when Gurley touches the ball over 17 times. Even more impressive, he accounts for 50% of the #3 offense in the league.
Before you claim it's his "offensive line" consider that he ran for 1100+ Yards, 10 TDs, on 4.9 YPC in 2015 behind the 28th overall and 27th best run blocking line according to PFF. He was 6th in broken tackle percentage that year at 25.2 which puts him right in the Carson range.
I don't think its quite fair to call him a fraud. That feels like its coming from a very hateful place. I respect that you may think he's overrated. That's a fair take.
In my opinion, he's a fantastic running back and just because he has a different skillset than our punishing Carson doesn't make Gurley a fraud. Different != bad, or fraudulent, in this case. If anything, McVay should be praised for tuning and scheming the system to best fit Gurley's skillset. That's what you want and hope for your coaches to be able to do. It's not Gurley's fault that his natural strengths as a runner are accentuated by McVay. I also think that Gurley is capable of getting some of the tougher yards when asked, but what also makes how the Rams use Gurley so brilliant is he doesn't take too much of a beating and as a result has been a true workhorse for them. Meanwhile as Seahawk fans we're just hoping Carson can manage to make it through the game, even if it is a more "fun" style to watch, and comparatively may feel like Gurley's getting his yards "cheaply". The goal as coaches should always be to make it as easy as possible for their players. That's a great way to build long term success, just look at NE - they tailor things to make it as easy as possible for Brady.
In my opinion, he's a fantastic running back and just because he has a different skillset than our punishing Carson doesn't make Gurley a fraud. Different != bad, or fraudulent, in this case. If anything, McVay should be praised for tuning and scheming the system to best fit Gurley's skillset. That's what you want and hope for your coaches to be able to do. It's not Gurley's fault that his natural strengths as a runner are accentuated by McVay. I also think that Gurley is capable of getting some of the tougher yards when asked, but what also makes how the Rams use Gurley so brilliant is he doesn't take too much of a beating and as a result has been a true workhorse for them. Meanwhile as Seahawk fans we're just hoping Carson can manage to make it through the game, even if it is a more "fun" style to watch, and comparatively may feel like Gurley's getting his yards "cheaply". The goal as coaches should always be to make it as easy as possible for their players. That's a great way to build long term success, just look at NE - they tailor things to make it as easy as possible for Brady.
OP
OP
Fade
Well-known member
Bryce84":kzydub7h said:
No, it's not hate only the truth.
Gurley struggles when everything isn't optimal around him. The Adrian Peterson's, Marshawn Lynch's, etc, the truly great backs find ways to be productive in non-optimal situations. Gurley hasn't, because he can't.
Gurley is being trotted out as an MVP candidate. He made 1st Team All-Pro in 2017. He is not even close to being that. Only a casual fan, or media talking head would think so. Therefore he is a fraud, ie not what you think he is.
I look forward to the mediots pondering what is wrong with Gurley once that O-Line takes a small step back.
ivotuk
Well-known member
Bold statement. And an accurate one. Gurley has had the benefit of big holes to run through, and being on a great offense. He's fast, but seems to have lost his power after his knee injuries.
I wonder how much the Georgia Bulldog's offense benefits running backs? Or does the recent RB success attract RB talent?
I wonder how much the Georgia Bulldog's offense benefits running backs? Or does the recent RB success attract RB talent?
Fade":ckrtkiob said:
With such an extensive knowledge of football, I'm surprised you're not in a front office somewhere. You know it's okay that we might both be right? I never said he's a 1st team all pro RB or worthy of it, I simply said he's a fantastic running back that is put in positions by his head coach to excel. I'm not going to pulverize him because he doesn't break tackles at record setting rates. There are no 2 RBs in exactly the same mold and none of them get it done the same way. I also don't think he should be pummeled because he's making the most of his opportunities in his environment with a great OL and coach. As I said, good coaches are supposed to make it as easy as possible for their players.
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/2017/ ... en-tackles
He and Ezekiel Elliot (who you said was NOT a fraud) break tackles at approximately the same rate (Zeke 12.9%, Gurley 12.3%). Zeke also happens to play behind a pretty good OL, and has for most of his career. I'm with you that I think Zeke is a better RB than Gurley, but that doesn't make Gurley a "fraud" or awful by any means. I'm getting tired of seeing all these outrageous takes where a player or person is either AMAZING or they're garbage (in this case a "fraud"). There is a LOT of room in between, and Gurley is no where near the bottom of that. It's true, the media and all that get hyped up on the stats and he's produced a lot of them with McVay, which in turn the general public eats up. For some reason, you've made it your mission to try and drag Gurley through the mud and instead of simply saying "he's not quite as good as the media would have you believe", you just want to piss all over him.
I respect and appreciate a lot of the insight brought by your posts in the past, but this one perplexes me.
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Fade
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[tweet]https://twitter.com/benbbaldwin/status/1075099022493450241[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/HDr0bot/status/1075099243575074816[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/benbbaldwin/status/1075099388664537088[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/JasonCheathawks/status/1075099493148708864[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/HDr0bot/status/1075099243575074816[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/benbbaldwin/status/1075099388664537088[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/JasonCheathawks/status/1075099493148708864[/tweet]
SoulfishHawk
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He's a great player, just not looking too clutch.
And if we are talking about broken tackles, just watch Carson, THAT is how tackles are broken. He does it every single game. And no, I'm not saying he's as good as Gurley. However, he was a 7th round pick.
And if we are talking about broken tackles, just watch Carson, THAT is how tackles are broken. He does it every single game. And no, I'm not saying he's as good as Gurley. However, he was a 7th round pick.
Chapow
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Bryce84":3ilc5v30 said:
Good post, I agree with all of this and especially the emphasized part.
Being a beneficiary of good blocking does not make a RB a fraud. It's entirely possible that the blocking and the RB can both be very good.
Quite frankly, this thread reeks of trying way too hard.
OP
OP
Fade
Well-known member
Gurley is not a 1st team All-Pro caliber back, and MVP caliber back. Period.
Earlier in the season.
Now later in the season.
Gurley just can't get it done now with only the 7th ranked O-Line. Beast Mode, AP, would kill with O-Lines like this as they did anyway because they were actually great. Gurley has become avg, over the later part of the season. And all it took was going from the 1st ranked to the 7th ranked. FRAUD.
Earlier in the season.
Now later in the season.
Gurley just can't get it done now with only the 7th ranked O-Line. Beast Mode, AP, would kill with O-Lines like this as they did anyway because they were actually great. Gurley has become avg, over the later part of the season. And all it took was going from the 1st ranked to the 7th ranked. FRAUD.
RedAlice
Well-known member
Also cuz he is injured.
But my god. Forgot why I stopped reading or posting here.
Reminded.
Enjoy the season loves.
But my god. Forgot why I stopped reading or posting here.
Reminded.
Enjoy the season loves.
Seahawk Sailor
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RedAlice":3qrzp9dv said:
To be fair, Alice, a lot of this thread was once said almost verbatim about Shaun Alexander here. That's kind of been forgotten in recent times what with more physical backs like Lynch and Carson, but Alexander was routinely criticized here for avoiding tackles and benefiting from a great offensive line, especially in 2007 when he played on a broken foot.
oundhead:
