The Niners Have Fallen Behind In The Arms Race.

Discuss any and all NFL-related topics and matters of interest here. RATING: PG-13
  • RichNhansom wrote:Next weekend is when the fun starts? If your a Niner fan then yes I agree but that is most certainly all going to be based on hype. So yes next weekend the hypes starts and obviously it will be fun for 49er fans. Just remember one thing. You have to play the games. Or in your case, they need to prove they can play at an NFL level and do it better than Jenkins did. Keep this in mind when you get excited about the draft picks you bring in because you and many other Niner fans have been very diligent in pointing out championship off seasons and the only thing worse than winning FA is winning the draft.

    Last year everyone gave the Seahawks a D or worse and then Wagner, Wilson and Irvin happened. In fact the last time I remember the Seahawks having a good draft grade after the draft was when we took Aaron Curry 4th overall.

    If you think the price was to high for Harvin, your going to have a meltdown when/if they resign Crabtree. It is what it is. We as Seahawks fans are hoping this FO that put in a 4 year plan and is now considered one of the best teams in the league coming into the start of their 4th season, actually does have a plan that is being realized but more importantly isn't so short sighted to not think beyond 4 years. I would loved to have gotten harvin for a late 7th and a league minimum contract but it is what it is and assuming it will cost the team dearly in some way in the future ignores that this FO has proven beyond any doubt that they know how to plan and have factored in everything that bringing Harvin in costs.

    I'm gonna trust Pete/John on the Avril signing no matter what his previous scheme. Consider we traded Daryl Tapp to the Eagles for a 4th round pick and Ohh by the way, got them to throw in Chris Clemons who has been a consistent 10+ a year sack guy. I think these guys know how to identify the talent they are looking at and utilize it. Clemmons was an after thought in Philly only to become a complete stud in Seattle.

    Bennett has graded out better than Jason Jones in nearly every statistical category while remaining healthy. Jones was brought in on a prove it contract and proved he couldn't be relied upon to stay healthy but when he was he made us significantly better. Now take that healthy version and improve it in performance and what is not to like about the signing? Unless your a Niner fan of course. But the move makes perfect sense, like it or not.

    You like the Niner moves because you have justified them but from an outside perspective there are much bigger question marks than you or your faithful want to realize. Asomugha is a safe move in that it is cheap but come on now, there is nothing beyond hope that he is a strong addition. Likewise he is not a gamble so no big but really at this point the acquisition should be viewed exactly as the "no big". If he helps then great and if not no big deal.

    Dorsey will be asked to do something he has never done, Play NT. He may have been miscast in KC but that is yet to be proven and the Niners are currently pegging him to be your starter at NT. Truth is he might end up being a very important player but it won't be at NT it will be replacing the 34 year old Justin Smith. That is his natural position in your scheme. Will he be as good as the the #4 overall pick who has been to 4 probowls with all pro honors? I don't know, maybe but that is still to be determined.

    Now lets talk Boldin. I'm a Boldin fan but that is tempered. If the signings were reversed I would be excited about Boldon for his blocking, toughness and professionalism but I would be concerned that Wilson would know how to make Boldin productive. He is not like Harvin that is good at getting open. He is a big body receiver that will man handle DB's and put himself in favorable position to catch a pass. The problem is that most inexperienced QB's don't have the understanding of what that means. They look for receivers to either be open, breaking open or coming back for the ball. When they see a receiver who appears covered they move on to the next target. Keapernick (just like Wilson would) will have to prove he can recognize when Bolden is in position to catch a pass. He will also have to display great touch, finesse and timing to put the ball where Boldin has the best chance to come down with it. This negates Keapernicks arm strength and requires he have the ability to drop the ball into the best position for Boldin. This will actually be a very good test for Keapernick to show he has the cerebral ability to identify and process while also having the touch, finesse and timing to execute the pass. If he doesn't then Boldin is taking up 6 million of your cap space and a roster spot for a position that might have been better suited playing Lockette in.

    If the Niners would have signed Harvin I would be simply crapping my pants and saying I don't like the Harvin move, but it's not because i don't like Harvin...I just think the price was too high and it'll bite them later.



    A lot there to respond to but I’ll do my best…

    Don’t misunderstand what I mean when I say next weekend is when the fun starts. I’m an NFL Draft addict. I’ve been watching it since 1989. I’ve recorded it since I had a VCR. The advent of the DVR is a godsend and allows me to record it on both ESPN and NFL Network. I love it. Can’t get enough.

    It isn’t just the draft that’s based on hype….ANYTHING done in the offseason is hype. Harvin improving the Seahawks. Boldin improving the Niners. Assumpions. Hype. That’s kinda the entire point about the “off-season champs”. Personally I don’t really think that the Niners or Seahawks are in contention for the “off-season champions” award. While the Harvin move was really big, none of the other moves have been nearly as big. Maybe during the season they will turn out to be impactful, but you just don’t know. I’m not a fan as I’ve said before. The Dolphons are an example to me of an "offseason champ". HUGE free agent signings that I don't think will net them anything. Free Agency is fools gold.

    As for the Niner moves, NONE of them will be enormously impactful in my opinion. Boldin won’t be a 1000 yard receiver. Asomugha won’t be the same guy…but it was worth giving him a shot. He very well may not make the roster. I like Dorsey, but I am in no way expecting him to suddenly be worthy of the top 5 pick that got him to KC. I don’t see him in those terms. I see him as a possible replacement for an underperforming Sopoaga at half the price.

    That kinda leads me to what I meant about the price for Harvin. I didn’t just mean the contract. I meant the combination of the contract, and 1, a 7, and another 3 next year. Those picks are precious…especially for teams like SF and Seattle. The downside of drafting well is that you can’t keep all of your players. It’s too expensive. You need to get a bunch of picks to fill holes cheaply for 4 or 5 years. The 49ers ran into this already with Dashon Goldson. You guys will feel the pinch soon as well…particularly when Wilson completes his 3rd year. Of course its gonna cost a lot of $$$$$ when Crabtrees contract is up….but it won’t cost three draft picks. If they elect NOT to resign him, they will try to replace him with a guy who takes ONE pick and then has a contract that’s preset and he’s bound to it for 4 or 5 years. THAT is the point I was making in regards to Harvin.

    I don’t give 2 sh*ts about draft grade. Nobody knows how good these picks will be. As I stated before, the fun starts for me because I love the draft process in general and the Niners have a ton of picks. The possibilities are what makes it fun.

    As for the Avril and Bennett signings…I just can’t stand Avril. I think he’s way, way overrated. I think he benefitted from both the Wide 9 and from having Suh in the middle. Even with that, he had 9.5 sacks last year and Detroit didn’t try very hard to keep him. I’m just not a fan. Bennett? Just not jumping up and down for that one. Is it a BAD signing? No…I just don’t see it as a big deal.

    The Niners signings to me were just maintenance. None of them make the team a much better team. They were just small moves to fill some holes in depth. As I said before though, the off-season is a net negative. They need to address FS and #2 TE. Hopefully they are able to do so in the draft.

    As for your comments in regards to Kaep and Boldin…Kaep has already shown that ability. It doesn’t get a lot of pub, but if you watch a pass he made to Kyle Williams on Monday Night against the Bears or to Vernon Davis vs the Packers you can see that he can loft the ball up and put it right on a guys hands when he’s covered. Certainly, he and Boldin need to work on the chemistry just as all WRs and QBs do, but Kaep has already shown that he can do that.

    Finally…your last comment…lol. It made me laugh, but I stand by my original comment. Harvin WILL make the Seahawks a better team IMO, but long term I still don’t lke the move. The combination of picks and $$$$ is just to high for me. If I were in that position, I’d rather have Tavon Austin. Its not because Tavon is better…it’s because even if you have to trade up to get him, he’s still on that rookie deal. It’s just my opinion and I’m sure you will disagree with it. ;-)
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  • Why does everything between these two fan bases have to be

    "explained to you the best I can" What bullshit on both sides.

    Why can't both sides have and opinion without everyone getting all pissy about it?

    :roll:
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    On to week two. Week one was not a fluke!
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    The Radish
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  • Marvin49 wrote:
    RichNhansom wrote:Next weekend is when the fun starts? If your a Niner fan then yes I agree but that is most certainly all going to be based on hype. So yes next weekend the hypes starts and obviously it will be fun for 49er fans. Just remember one thing. You have to play the games. Or in your case, they need to prove they can play at an NFL level and do it better than Jenkins did. Keep this in mind when you get excited about the draft picks you bring in because you and many other Niner fans have been very diligent in pointing out championship off seasons and the only thing worse than winning FA is winning the draft.

    Last year everyone gave the Seahawks a D or worse and then Wagner, Wilson and Irvin happened. In fact the last time I remember the Seahawks having a good draft grade after the draft was when we took Aaron Curry 4th overall.

    If you think the price was to high for Harvin, your going to have a meltdown when/if they resign Crabtree. It is what it is. We as Seahawks fans are hoping this FO that put in a 4 year plan and is now considered one of the best teams in the league coming into the start of their 4th season, actually does have a plan that is being realized but more importantly isn't so short sighted to not think beyond 4 years. I would loved to have gotten harvin for a late 7th and a league minimum contract but it is what it is and assuming it will cost the team dearly in some way in the future ignores that this FO has proven beyond any doubt that they know how to plan and have factored in everything that bringing Harvin in costs.

    I'm gonna trust Pete/John on the Avril signing no matter what his previous scheme. Consider we traded Daryl Tapp to the Eagles for a 4th round pick and Ohh by the way, got them to throw in Chris Clemons who has been a consistent 10+ a year sack guy. I think these guys know how to identify the talent they are looking at and utilize it. Clemmons was an after thought in Philly only to become a complete stud in Seattle.

    Bennett has graded out better than Jason Jones in nearly every statistical category while remaining healthy. Jones was brought in on a prove it contract and proved he couldn't be relied upon to stay healthy but when he was he made us significantly better. Now take that healthy version and improve it in performance and what is not to like about the signing? Unless your a Niner fan of course. But the move makes perfect sense, like it or not.

    You like the Niner moves because you have justified them but from an outside perspective there are much bigger question marks than you or your faithful want to realize. Asomugha is a safe move in that it is cheap but come on now, there is nothing beyond hope that he is a strong addition. Likewise he is not a gamble so no big but really at this point the acquisition should be viewed exactly as the "no big". If he helps then great and if not no big deal.

    Dorsey will be asked to do something he has never done, Play NT. He may have been miscast in KC but that is yet to be proven and the Niners are currently pegging him to be your starter at NT. Truth is he might end up being a very important player but it won't be at NT it will be replacing the 34 year old Justin Smith. That is his natural position in your scheme. Will he be as good as the the #4 overall pick who has been to 4 probowls with all pro honors? I don't know, maybe but that is still to be determined.

    Now lets talk Boldin. I'm a Boldin fan but that is tempered. If the signings were reversed I would be excited about Boldon for his blocking, toughness and professionalism but I would be concerned that Wilson would know how to make Boldin productive. He is not like Harvin that is good at getting open. He is a big body receiver that will man handle DB's and put himself in favorable position to catch a pass. The problem is that most inexperienced QB's don't have the understanding of what that means. They look for receivers to either be open, breaking open or coming back for the ball. When they see a receiver who appears covered they move on to the next target. Keapernick (just like Wilson would) will have to prove he can recognize when Bolden is in position to catch a pass. He will also have to display great touch, finesse and timing to put the ball where Boldin has the best chance to come down with it. This negates Keapernicks arm strength and requires he have the ability to drop the ball into the best position for Boldin. This will actually be a very good test for Keapernick to show he has the cerebral ability to identify and process while also having the touch, finesse and timing to execute the pass. If he doesn't then Boldin is taking up 6 million of your cap space and a roster spot for a position that might have been better suited playing Lockette in.

    If the Niners would have signed Harvin I would be simply crapping my pants and saying I don't like the Harvin move, but it's not because i don't like Harvin...I just think the price was too high and it'll bite them later.



    A lot there to respond to but I’ll do my best…

    Don’t misunderstand what I mean when I say next weekend is when the fun starts. I’m an NFL Draft addict. I’ve been watching it since 1989. I’ve recorded it since I had a VCR. The advent of the DVR is a godsend and allows me to record it on both ESPN and NFL Network. I love it. Can’t get enough.

    Makes sense. Thanks for explaining.

    It isn’t just the draft that’s based on hype….ANYTHING done in the offseason is hype. Harvin improving the Seahawks. Boldin improving the Niners. Assumpions. Hype. That’s kinda the entire point about the “off-season champs”. Personally I don’t really think that the Niners or Seahawks are in contention for the “off-season champions” award. While the Harvin move was really big, none of the other moves have been nearly as big. Maybe during the season they will turn out to be impactful, but you just don’t know. I’m not a fan as I’ve said before. The Dolphons are an example to me of an "offseason champ". HUGE free agent signings that I don't think will net them anything. Free Agency is fools gold.

    Makes sense.

    As for the Niner moves, NONE of them will be enormously impactful in my opinion. Boldin won’t be a 1000 yard receiver. Asomugha won’t be the same guy…but it was worth giving him a shot. He very well may not make the roster. I like Dorsey, but I am in no way expecting him to suddenly be worthy of the top 5 pick that got him to KC. I don’t see him in those terms. I see him as a possible replacement for an underperforming Sopoaga at half the price.

    Fair enough. I'm curious how he will work out for you guys also.

    That kinda leads me to what I meant about the price for Harvin. I didn’t just mean the contract. I meant the combination of the contract, and 1, a 7, and another 3 next year. Those picks are precious…especially for teams like SF and Seattle. The downside of drafting well is that you can’t keep all of your players. It’s too expensive. You need to get a bunch of picks to fill holes cheaply for 4 or 5 years. The 49ers ran into this already with Dashon Goldson. You guys will feel the pinch soon as well…particularly when Wilson completes his 3rd year. Of course its gonna cost a lot of $$$$$ when Crabtrees contract is up….but it won’t cost three draft picks. If they elect NOT to resign him, they will try to replace him with a guy who takes ONE pick and then has a contract that’s preset and he’s bound to it for 4 or 5 years. THAT is the point I was making in regards to Harvin.

    As for draft picks being precious, I agree but not for the same reasons. Having a bunch of draft picks gives you flexibility to move around. To trade up if think your guy won't be there but is worthy of additional picks to acquire. I doubt the Niners are going to be drafting 13 players or the Seahawks 10. It's to much for either team when you consider the needs of each team, the time to evaluate each player and the roster spots available. I would be surprised if either team leaves the draft with more than 7 players, 8 max. That means you are either trading up or out for the next year.

    As for multiple picks for Harvin, you just said it yourself. You would rather have Austin even if it means trading up for him which I think is pretty obvious we would have to so then the next question comes in. How much would we need to trade to take Austin? Will he be available at #20? That's essentially what we gave up for Harvin. Rumors are bouncing he might go top 10. What would that cost? Basically your saying you would pass up on Harvin for a chance at Austin. I can't agree with that when you have no Guarantee he will even be within your reach or that he will be anywhere near the caliber we already know Harvin is. I understand your point but your FO was also in the bidding for him and they obviously weren't going to get him for a 3rd and 5 mill a year so they placed value on him as well.

    It is alot to pay for a player but I can understand why the thinking is there, I can also understand why they didn't want the Niners to get him. That would have been scary and IMO very helpful to Kaepernick's development. As for the contract I have no reason to think this FO hasn't factored it in so it doesn't make sense for me to stress about it.


    I don’t give 2 sh*ts about draft grade. Nobody knows how good these picks will be. As I stated before, the fun starts for me because I love the draft process in general and the Niners have a ton of picks. The possibilities are what makes it fun.

    As for the Avril and Bennett signings…I just can’t stand Avril. I think he’s way, way overrated. I think he benefitted from both the Wide 9 and from having Suh in the middle. Even with that, he had 9.5 sacks last year and Detroit didn’t try very hard to keep him. I’m just not a fan. Bennett? Just not jumping up and down for that one. Is it a BAD signing? No…I just don’t see it as a big deal.

    Avril is coming in to play the Leo for us. He will be the starter at least until Clemons returns. He may not be as good as Clemons, we don't know for sure but he is essentially the same player and has ten times the resume that Clemons had coming in. No doubt he benefited from Suh but he will benefit from our secondary here so tomato tomoto. I love that he passed up a 3 year 30 million dollar offer (that is trying to resign him by the way) and is now on a 1 year prove it contract. You say the guys you brought in are there because they want a ring, well Avril and Bennett both are here for that reason plus to prove they are worthy of big contracts. It is why they signed short deals. Bennet is better than Jones based on past performance and with much less injury history. What is not to like and neither of these guys are on big contracts. If they perform as expected then it is a major win. If not then no big. the cost was minimal.

    The Niners signings to me were just maintenance. None of them make the team a much better team. They were just small moves to fill some holes in depth. As I said before though, the off-season is a net negative. They need to address FS and #2 TE. Hopefully they are able to do so in the draft.

    As for your comments in regards to Kaep and Boldin…Kaep has already shown that ability. It doesn’t get a lot of pub, but if you watch a pass he made to Kyle Williams on Monday Night against the Bears or to Vernon Davis vs the Packers you can see that he can loft the ball up and put it right on a guys hands when he’s covered. Certainly, he and Boldin need to work on the chemistry just as all WRs and QBs do, but Kaep has already shown that he can do that.

    I haven't seen that and have watched nearly every snap of Kaepernick. Not calling you a liar but I haven't noticed it. This is a wait and see for me. If Keap can make Boldin productive it will earn a ton of respect from me. Right now I am just not sure.

    Finally…your last comment…lol. It made me laugh, but I stand by my original comment. Harvin WILL make the Seahawks a better team IMO, but long term I still don’t lke the move. The combination of picks and $$$$ is just to high for me. If I were in that position, I’d rather have Tavon Austin. Its not because Tavon is better…it’s because even if you have to trade up to get him, he’s still on that rookie deal. It’s just my opinion and I’m sure you will disagree with it. ;-)
    The Lion has no interest in the opinion of the sheep.
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  • The Radish wrote:Why does everything between these two fan bases have to be

    "explained to you the best I can" What bullshit on both sides.

    Why can't both sides have and opinion without everyone getting all pissy about it?

    :roll:


    For the record Les, I didn't read it like that. I think it had more to do with the long post. No worries.
    The Lion has no interest in the opinion of the sheep.
    RichNhansom
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  • RichNhansom wrote:
    The Radish wrote:Why does everything between these two fan bases have to be

    "explained to you the best I can" What bullshit on both sides.

    Why can't both sides have and opinion without everyone getting all pissy about it?

    :roll:


    For the record Les, I didn't read it like that. I think it had more to do with the long post. No worries.


    Correct. Thats what I meant. Wasn't trying to be chippy.
    Marvin49
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  • RichNhansom wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    RichNhansom wrote:Next weekend is when the fun starts? If your a Niner fan then yes I agree but that is most certainly all going to be based on hype. So yes next weekend the hypes starts and obviously it will be fun for 49er fans. Just remember one thing. You have to play the games. Or in your case, they need to prove they can play at an NFL level and do it better than Jenkins did. Keep this in mind when you get excited about the draft picks you bring in because you and many other Niner fans have been very diligent in pointing out championship off seasons and the only thing worse than winning FA is winning the draft.

    Last year everyone gave the Seahawks a D or worse and then Wagner, Wilson and Irvin happened. In fact the last time I remember the Seahawks having a good draft grade after the draft was when we took Aaron Curry 4th overall.

    If you think the price was to high for Harvin, your going to have a meltdown when/if they resign Crabtree. It is what it is. We as Seahawks fans are hoping this FO that put in a 4 year plan and is now considered one of the best teams in the league coming into the start of their 4th season, actually does have a plan that is being realized but more importantly isn't so short sighted to not think beyond 4 years. I would loved to have gotten harvin for a late 7th and a league minimum contract but it is what it is and assuming it will cost the team dearly in some way in the future ignores that this FO has proven beyond any doubt that they know how to plan and have factored in everything that bringing Harvin in costs.

    I'm gonna trust Pete/John on the Avril signing no matter what his previous scheme. Consider we traded Daryl Tapp to the Eagles for a 4th round pick and Ohh by the way, got them to throw in Chris Clemons who has been a consistent 10+ a year sack guy. I think these guys know how to identify the talent they are looking at and utilize it. Clemmons was an after thought in Philly only to become a complete stud in Seattle.

    Bennett has graded out better than Jason Jones in nearly every statistical category while remaining healthy. Jones was brought in on a prove it contract and proved he couldn't be relied upon to stay healthy but when he was he made us significantly better. Now take that healthy version and improve it in performance and what is not to like about the signing? Unless your a Niner fan of course. But the move makes perfect sense, like it or not.

    You like the Niner moves because you have justified them but from an outside perspective there are much bigger question marks than you or your faithful want to realize. Asomugha is a safe move in that it is cheap but come on now, there is nothing beyond hope that he is a strong addition. Likewise he is not a gamble so no big but really at this point the acquisition should be viewed exactly as the "no big". If he helps then great and if not no big deal.

    Dorsey will be asked to do something he has never done, Play NT. He may have been miscast in KC but that is yet to be proven and the Niners are currently pegging him to be your starter at NT. Truth is he might end up being a very important player but it won't be at NT it will be replacing the 34 year old Justin Smith. That is his natural position in your scheme. Will he be as good as the the #4 overall pick who has been to 4 probowls with all pro honors? I don't know, maybe but that is still to be determined.

    Now lets talk Boldin. I'm a Boldin fan but that is tempered. If the signings were reversed I would be excited about Boldon for his blocking, toughness and professionalism but I would be concerned that Wilson would know how to make Boldin productive. He is not like Harvin that is good at getting open. He is a big body receiver that will man handle DB's and put himself in favorable position to catch a pass. The problem is that most inexperienced QB's don't have the understanding of what that means. They look for receivers to either be open, breaking open or coming back for the ball. When they see a receiver who appears covered they move on to the next target. Keapernick (just like Wilson would) will have to prove he can recognize when Bolden is in position to catch a pass. He will also have to display great touch, finesse and timing to put the ball where Boldin has the best chance to come down with it. This negates Keapernicks arm strength and requires he have the ability to drop the ball into the best position for Boldin. This will actually be a very good test for Keapernick to show he has the cerebral ability to identify and process while also having the touch, finesse and timing to execute the pass. If he doesn't then Boldin is taking up 6 million of your cap space and a roster spot for a position that might have been better suited playing Lockette in.

    If the Niners would have signed Harvin I would be simply crapping my pants and saying I don't like the Harvin move, but it's not because i don't like Harvin...I just think the price was too high and it'll bite them later.



    A lot there to respond to but I’ll do my best…

    Don’t misunderstand what I mean when I say next weekend is when the fun starts. I’m an NFL Draft addict. I’ve been watching it since 1989. I’ve recorded it since I had a VCR. The advent of the DVR is a godsend and allows me to record it on both ESPN and NFL Network. I love it. Can’t get enough.

    Makes sense. Thanks for explaining.

    It isn’t just the draft that’s based on hype….ANYTHING done in the offseason is hype. Harvin improving the Seahawks. Boldin improving the Niners. Assumpions. Hype. That’s kinda the entire point about the “off-season champs”. Personally I don’t really think that the Niners or Seahawks are in contention for the “off-season champions” award. While the Harvin move was really big, none of the other moves have been nearly as big. Maybe during the season they will turn out to be impactful, but you just don’t know. I’m not a fan as I’ve said before. The Dolphons are an example to me of an "offseason champ". HUGE free agent signings that I don't think will net them anything. Free Agency is fools gold.

    Makes sense.

    As for the Niner moves, NONE of them will be enormously impactful in my opinion. Boldin won’t be a 1000 yard receiver. Asomugha won’t be the same guy…but it was worth giving him a shot. He very well may not make the roster. I like Dorsey, but I am in no way expecting him to suddenly be worthy of the top 5 pick that got him to KC. I don’t see him in those terms. I see him as a possible replacement for an underperforming Sopoaga at half the price.

    Fair enough. I'm curious how he will work out for you guys also.

    That kinda leads me to what I meant about the price for Harvin. I didn’t just mean the contract. I meant the combination of the contract, and 1, a 7, and another 3 next year. Those picks are precious…especially for teams like SF and Seattle. The downside of drafting well is that you can’t keep all of your players. It’s too expensive. You need to get a bunch of picks to fill holes cheaply for 4 or 5 years. The 49ers ran into this already with Dashon Goldson. You guys will feel the pinch soon as well…particularly when Wilson completes his 3rd year. Of course its gonna cost a lot of $$$$$ when Crabtrees contract is up….but it won’t cost three draft picks. If they elect NOT to resign him, they will try to replace him with a guy who takes ONE pick and then has a contract that’s preset and he’s bound to it for 4 or 5 years. THAT is the point I was making in regards to Harvin.

    As for draft picks being precious, I agree but not for the same reasons. Having a bunch of draft picks gives you flexibility to move around. To trade up if think your guy won't be there but is worthy of additional picks to acquire. I doubt the Niners are going to be drafting 13 players or the Seahawks 10. It's to much for either team when you consider the needs of each team, the time to evaluate each player and the roster spots available. I would be surprised if either team leaves the draft with more than 7 players, 8 max. That means you are either trading up or out for the next year.

    As for multiple picks for Harvin, you just said it yourself. You would rather have Austin even if it means trading up for him which I think is pretty obvious we would have to so then the next question comes in. How much would we need to trade to take Austin? Will he be available at #20? That's essentially what we gave up for Harvin. Rumors are bouncing he might go top 10. What would that cost? Basically your saying you would pass up on Harvin for a chance at Austin. I can't agree with that when you have no Guarantee he will even be within your reach or that he will be anywhere near the caliber we already know Harvin is. I understand your point but your FO was also in the bidding for him and they obviously weren't going to get him for a 3rd and 5 mill a year so they placed value on him as well.

    It is alot to pay for a player but I can understand why the thinking is there, I can also understand why they didn't want the Niners to get him. That would have been scary and IMO very helpful to Kaepernick's development. As for the contract I have no reason to think this FO hasn't factored it in so it doesn't make sense for me to stress about it.


    I don’t give 2 sh*ts about draft grade. Nobody knows how good these picks will be. As I stated before, the fun starts for me because I love the draft process in general and the Niners have a ton of picks. The possibilities are what makes it fun.

    As for the Avril and Bennett signings…I just can’t stand Avril. I think he’s way, way overrated. I think he benefitted from both the Wide 9 and from having Suh in the middle. Even with that, he had 9.5 sacks last year and Detroit didn’t try very hard to keep him. I’m just not a fan. Bennett? Just not jumping up and down for that one. Is it a BAD signing? No…I just don’t see it as a big deal.

    Avril is coming in to play the Leo for us. He will be the starter at least until Clemons returns. He may not be as good as Clemons, we don't know for sure but he is essentially the same player and has ten times the resume that Clemons had coming in. No doubt he benefited from Suh but he will benefit from our secondary here so tomato tomoto. I love that he passed up a 3 year 30 million dollar offer (that is trying to resign him by the way) and is now on a 1 year prove it contract. You say the guys you brought in are there because they want a ring, well Avril and Bennett both are here for that reason plus to prove they are worthy of big contracts. It is why they signed short deals. Bennet is better than Jones based on past performance and with much less injury history. What is not to like and neither of these guys are on big contracts. If they perform as expected then it is a major win. If not then no big. the cost was minimal.

    The Niners signings to me were just maintenance. None of them make the team a much better team. They were just small moves to fill some holes in depth. As I said before though, the off-season is a net negative. They need to address FS and #2 TE. Hopefully they are able to do so in the draft.

    As for your comments in regards to Kaep and Boldin…Kaep has already shown that ability. It doesn’t get a lot of pub, but if you watch a pass he made to Kyle Williams on Monday Night against the Bears or to Vernon Davis vs the Packers you can see that he can loft the ball up and put it right on a guys hands when he’s covered. Certainly, he and Boldin need to work on the chemistry just as all WRs and QBs do, but Kaep has already shown that he can do that.

    I haven't seen that and have watched nearly every snap of Kaepernick. Not calling you a liar but I haven't noticed it. This is a wait and see for me. If Keap can make Boldin productive it will earn a ton of respect from me. Right now I am just not sure.

    Finally…your last comment…lol. It made me laugh, but I stand by my original comment. Harvin WILL make the Seahawks a better team IMO, but long term I still don’t lke the move. The combination of picks and $$$$ is just to high for me. If I were in that position, I’d rather have Tavon Austin. Its not because Tavon is better…it’s because even if you have to trade up to get him, he’s still on that rookie deal. It’s just my opinion and I’m sure you will disagree with it. ;-)


    Absolutely agree about the number of picks. Niners won't take 13 players. They simply don't have that many roster spots. They'll trade up and trade out just as they did last year. The Niners already have 9 picks next year as it is (an extra 2 or 3 depending on how Alex does in KC and an extra 7) and probably 2 or 3 more for free agent losses. Outside of Dorsey and Dawson (who both signed small contracts), all of the 49er moves have been trades or players that were cut by their previous teams (so don't count against the comp pick formula). Don't be surprised if the end up with 13 or 14 picks again next year. They have already lost Goldson, Walker, Jean-Francios, and Sopoaga...all to contracts larger than Dorsey. They'll probably get at least another 3rd.

    Totally agree that the best thing that many oicks does is provide flexibility. It also allows you to take a stab at injured players you can stash away (something they did this year with OG Joe Looney and might do again on someone like Marcus Lattimore). BTW, My picks for those first 2 picks are Jonathan Cyprien and Margus Hunt....which pretty much guarantees that they'll take neither. ;-)

    I still think tho that it's important to have those picks to cheaply replenish your roster. When you draft really well, those guys are going to need to get paid. The Niners have already started resigning their guys....Bowman and Anthony Davis were both signed 2 years early. Iupati is next. Crabtee, Kaep, and Aldon will all need new contracts. There is a very good shot that Crab will be the odd man out. You just can't pay everyone. Thats why those picks are so important. You guys are gonna see that soon. WHen Wilson and Sherman start looking for those new contracts, you're gonna feel the squeeze. If you are correct on Avril and Bennett and they play really well....they are going to be looking for huge contracts as well.

    I always understood why Avril and Bennett signed. They are looking for a payday. They wanted to find a good team to produce big numbers and then cash in.

    I guess the best way I can explain what I think about Harvin is to look at Darrelle Revis. The Niners were rumored to be in the middle of that too. I don't buy it. I don't buy they were in it for Harvin either. I think people see all those picks and connect the dots. It never made any sense tho. Would I love to have Revis? Of course. Do I want to give up those picks and that money. NO. Bad move. I'm very happy that they are NOT going to do that deal even though I'd love to have him on the team.

    Deion is a good example. The Niners signed him in '94, but he came in on a small contract, no draft picks and just wanted the ring. He went to Dallas the next year on a HUGE contract and it ended up biting the Cowboys later. Having Deion meant there were other players they couldn't keep and free agents they couldn't compete for. THATS what I'm talking about.

    Short term tho, Harvin is scary.
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  • Holy walls of text batman! You guys are nuts.
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    Bakergirl
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  • DavidSeven wrote:
    bestfightstory wrote:How will we Seahawks keep pace?


    42-13 (should have been 42-6).

    49ers backed into a bye week and lucked into a flu-ridden Packers team. They didn't play any better against Atlanta in the afternoon than we did at 10am. They just caught an extra break or two. They were embarassed in the Super Bowl until the lights went out.

    People really need to get a grip. The Niners are the ones hoping to keep pace with Seattle's youth movement and drafting aptitude.


    Here we go again with that infamous "42=13" victory, didn't the 9ers beat you guys like 4 in a row before that?, I mean beating teams twice in a row is hard enough, and you guys wonder why nobody takes you guys serious, as a 9er fan, this is what i thought of that game:
    Rude144
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  • Rude144 wrote:
    DavidSeven wrote:
    bestfightstory wrote:How will we Seahawks keep pace?


    42-13 (should have been 42-6).

    49ers backed into a bye week and lucked into a flu-ridden Packers team. They didn't play any better against Atlanta in the afternoon than we did at 10am. They just caught an extra break or two. They were embarassed in the Super Bowl until the lights went out.

    People really need to get a grip. The Niners are the ones hoping to keep pace with Seattle's youth movement and drafting aptitude.


    Here we go again with that infamous "42=13" victory, didn't the 9ers beat you guys like 4 in a row before that?, I mean beating teams twice in a row is hard enough, and you guys wonder why nobody takes you guys serious, as a 9er fan, this is what i thought of that game:


    So, what you are saying is that the niners got their ass pounded so hard that they forgot what day of the week it was?
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  • Rude144

    here's a little advice.. try not replying to every post on every thread with the same stupid video and comment that you lifted from the Web.. how about trying to use a little factual discussion in your post, you know with actual facts, perhaps stats to back your claims, something besides, we don't care you pounded us we beat you 4 in a row before that..... you might last a little longer... you think the niners has what it takes to beat us next year, tell us why..... Just a thought..
    World Champs - Sounds good don't it
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  • that 42-12 game was just a bad day for the niners and a great day for the seahawks. plain and simple and it can and will happen to any team on any sunday. the hawks were playing lights out and the crowd was goin ballistic. too still even talk about that game is like cheering for a garbage touchdown.
    and niner fans are far more disappointed by another loss we had this season to think about it :(

    as far as these roster moves and the so called arms race and keeping up with each other, just look at the dream team.
    the team on paper doesnt mean shit. playing well is all that matters not whose lining up (maybe a little lol)


    CANNOT WAIT for week 2
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  • I hear what you're saying but Frankly i'm getting a little tired of this Dream Team Talk... the difference between us , niners and the Eagles is, the Eagles went out and pretty much revamped their entire defense , where as the niners and Seahawks already had a solid core in place on both sides of the ball, and have added key FA's to bolster an already potent team... we signed Harvin to add another dynamic to the offense, Avril and Bennett to add depth to the D Line and take over for Clemons till he can get healthy, and Winfield to solidify our weakest position in the secondary...

    niners have done much of the same, simply adding Key Vets to an already dominant team... tha's what the good teams do, have a good strong core of players, and bring in players to plug up any holes...

    as far as week two.,, your boys want's no part of the CLink or the twelth man.. Certainly not Kaepinnochio... lol I love that name.
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  • Forty9ers wrote:that 42-12 game was just a bad day for the niners and a great day for the seahawks. plain and simple and it can and will happen to any team on any sunday. the hawks were playing lights out and the crowd was goin ballistic. too still even talk about that game is like cheering for a garbage touchdown.
    and niner fans are far more disappointed by another loss we had this season to think about it :(

    as far as these roster moves and the so called arms race and keeping up with each other, just look at the dream team.
    the team on paper doesnt mean shit. playing well is all that matters not whose lining up (maybe a little lol)


    CANNOT WAIT for week 2


    This warms my heart just thinking about it, but being here to witness the misery is priceless. :mrgreen:
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    Bakergirl
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  • hawker84 wrote:I hear what you're saying but Frankly i'm getting a little tired of this Dream Team Talk... the difference between us , niners and the Eagles is, the Eagles went out and pretty much revamped their entire defense , where as the niners and Seahawks already had a solid core in place on both sides of the ball, and have added key FA's to bolster an already potent team... we signed Harvin to add another dynamic to the offense, Avril and Bennett to add depth to the D Line and take over for Clemons till he can get healthy, and Winfield to solidify our weakest position in the secondary...

    niners have done much of the same, simply adding Key Vets to an already dominant team... tha's what the good teams do, have a good strong core of players, and bring in players to plug up any holes...

    as far as week two.,, your boys want's no part of the CLink or the twelth man.. Certainly not Kaepinnochio... lol I love that name.


    I actually agree with you here. In '94 the 49ers signed a bunch of Free Agents to fill holes on D, but the core of that team was already built.


    The Dolphins to me are a better example this year of a "Dream Team" like scenario. Harvin will certainly be a big addition and Boldin should be good in SF as a #2 WR, but other than that I don't see the other additions as Hugely impactful. They improve depth and provide some competition...altho I do like the Winfield move as your slot corner.

    I think what the poster was saying that posted the Street Fighter vid was simply that while Seahawks fans have the numbers 42-13 etched in their brain, Niner fans just veiw it as a fluky score to a game that got out of hand and its the loss in Feb that really occupies their time. That isn't meant as an insult...its just the honest truth.
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  • Marvin49 wrote:
    hawker84 wrote:I hear what you're saying but Frankly i'm getting a little tired of this Dream Team Talk... the difference between us , niners and the Eagles is, the Eagles went out and pretty much revamped their entire defense , where as the niners and Seahawks already had a solid core in place on both sides of the ball, and have added key FA's to bolster an already potent team... we signed Harvin to add another dynamic to the offense, Avril and Bennett to add depth to the D Line and take over for Clemons till he can get healthy, and Winfield to solidify our weakest position in the secondary...

    niners have done much of the same, simply adding Key Vets to an already dominant team... tha's what the good teams do, have a good strong core of players, and bring in players to plug up any holes...

    as far as week two.,, your boys want's no part of the CLink or the twelth man.. Certainly not Kaepinnochio... lol I love that name.


    I actually agree with you here. In '94 the 49ers signed a bunch of Free Agents to fill holes on D, but the core of that team was already built.


    The Dolphins to me are a better example this year of a "Dream Team" like scenario. Harvin will certainly be a big addition and Boldin should be good in SF as a #2 WR, but other than that I don't see the other additions as Hugely impactful. They improve depth and provide some competition...altho I do like the Winfield move as your slot corner.

    I think what the poster was saying that posted the Street Fighter vid was simply that while Seahawks fans have the numbers 42-13 etched in their brain, Niner fans just veiw it as a fluky score to a game that got out of hand and its the loss in Feb that really occupies their time. That isn't meant as an insult...its just the honest truth.


    At least you can understand how silly it sounds every time we hear "5 rings" as a response.
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  • AbsolutNET wrote:
    Marvin49 wrote:
    hawker84 wrote:I hear what you're saying but Frankly i'm getting a little tired of this Dream Team Talk... the difference between us , niners and the Eagles is, the Eagles went out and pretty much revamped their entire defense , where as the niners and Seahawks already had a solid core in place on both sides of the ball, and have added key FA's to bolster an already potent team... we signed Harvin to add another dynamic to the offense, Avril and Bennett to add depth to the D Line and take over for Clemons till he can get healthy, and Winfield to solidify our weakest position in the secondary...

    niners have done much of the same, simply adding Key Vets to an already dominant team... tha's what the good teams do, have a good strong core of players, and bring in players to plug up any holes...

    as far as week two.,, your boys want's no part of the CLink or the twelth man.. Certainly not Kaepinnochio... lol I love that name.


    I actually agree with you here. In '94 the 49ers signed a bunch of Free Agents to fill holes on D, but the core of that team was already built.


    The Dolphins to me are a better example this year of a "Dream Team" like scenario. Harvin will certainly be a big addition and Boldin should be good in SF as a #2 WR, but other than that I don't see the other additions as Hugely impactful. They improve depth and provide some competition...altho I do like the Winfield move as your slot corner.

    I think what the poster was saying that posted the Street Fighter vid was simply that while Seahawks fans have the numbers 42-13 etched in their brain, Niner fans just veiw it as a fluky score to a game that got out of hand and its the loss in Feb that really occupies their time. That isn't meant as an insult...its just the honest truth.


    At least you can understand how silly it sounds every time we hear "5 rings" as a response.


    Sorta....although I'm old enough to remember all of them (was born in '73 and they won the first one in Jan of '82 so they don't feel as ancient as people on here say).

    Still...that was some time ago.
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  • hawker84 wrote: Rude144

    here's a little advice.. try not replying to every post on every thread with the same stupid video and comment that you lifted from the Web.. how about trying to use a little factual discussion in your post, you know with actual facts, perhaps stats to back your claims, something besides, we don't care you pounded us we beat you 4 in a row before that..... you might last a little longer... you think the niners has what it takes to beat us next year, tell us why..... Just a thought..


    Straight from the niner forums...
    Marvin49 wrote:Ok. I have to admit. That's messed up.

    You win.
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  • Forty9ers wrote:that 42-12 game was just a bad day for the niners and a great day for the seahawks. plain and simple and it can and will happen to any team on any sunday. the hawks were playing lights out and the crowd was goin ballistic. too still even talk about that game is like cheering for a garbage touchdown.
    and niner fans are far more disappointed by another loss we had this season to think about it :(

    as far as these roster moves and the so called arms race and keeping up with each other, just look at the dream team.
    the team on paper doesnt mean shit. playing well is all that matters not whose lining up (maybe a little lol)


    CANNOT WAIT for week 2



    This playing well thing is just like the Hype thing. Both teams need to prove they are worthy of the hype they are getting and just because you had a couple good seasons doesn't make you any less attached to that hype.

    We need Avril and Bennet to prove they can do in our system what they did in previous systems and you need someone to step up at nose tackle.

    We need Winfield to prove he can continue to play at the level he did last year and you need someone to step up and replace Goldston.

    We need Harvin to show he is the same play maker he was in Minny and you need Kaepernick to prove he can get the ball to Boldin and not just see him as covered.

    We need to prove we can play in the spot light and you need to prove you can replenish the holes that are currently vacant.

    I prefer our prove it list to yours.
    Avril and Bennet vs no one? Advantage Seattle.
    Winfield vs no one? Advantage Seattle.
    Harvin vs Boldin? Advantage Seattle.
    Prove we can play in the spot light (like our record indicates on nationally televised game) vs finding multiple suitable replacements without taking a drop in production? Advantage Seattle.

    You still have other question marks that come into play also. Will Gore be productive beyond 30? Will Justin Smith stay healthy at 34? Can Harbaugh actually substitute without a massive drop off in production?

    Like I said, I like our prove it lise much better.

    Good luck answering all the questions your team has going into this season.
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  • RichNhansom wrote:
    Forty9ers wrote:that 42-12 game was just a bad day for the niners and a great day for the seahawks. plain and simple and it can and will happen to any team on any sunday. the hawks were playing lights out and the crowd was goin ballistic. too still even talk about that game is like cheering for a garbage touchdown.
    and niner fans are far more disappointed by another loss we had this season to think about it :(

    as far as these roster moves and the so called arms race and keeping up with each other, just look at the dream team.
    the team on paper doesnt mean shit. playing well is all that matters not whose lining up (maybe a little lol)


    CANNOT WAIT for week 2



    This playing well thing is just like the Hype thing. Both teams need to prove they are worthy of the hype they are getting and just because you had a couple good seasons doesn't make you any less attached to that hype.

    We need Avril and Bennet to prove they can do in our system what they did in previous systems and you need someone to step up at nose tackle.

    We need Winfield to prove he can continue to play at the level he did last year and you need someone to step up and replace Goldston.

    We need Harvin to show he is the same play maker he was in Minny and you need Kaepernick to prove he can get the ball to Boldin and not just see him as covered.

    We need to prove we can play in the spot light and you need to prove you can replenish the holes that are currently vacant.

    I prefer our prove it list to yours.
    Avril and Bennet vs no one? Advantage Seattle.
    Winfield vs no one? Advantage Seattle.
    Harvin vs Boldin? Advantage Seattle.
    Prove we can play in the spot light (like our record indicates on nationally televised game) vs finding multiple suitable replacements without taking a drop in production? Advantage Seattle.

    You still have other question marks that come into play also. Will Gore be productive beyond 30? Will Justin Smith stay healthy at 34? Can Harbaugh actually substitute without a massive drop off in production?

    Like I said, I like our prove it lise much better.

    Good luck answering all the questions your team has going into this season.

    Love the optimism. I think it's still a bit premature. Let's get through the draft, OTA's, minicamps and into training camp. As of RIGHT NOW .... I think the Hawks have a slight advantage. I'll come back on Friday and talk some more about this, and probably more over the weekend as the draft rolls along.
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