How the Saints Ended Up in Salary-Cap Hell

Jville · Dec 12, 2014

A good article for those interested in the latest episode of salary cap hell stories from the NFL >>> [urltargetblank]http://grantland.com/the-triangle/new-orleans-saints-salary-cap/[/urltargetblank]

SomersetHawk · Dec 12, 2014

Yikes, knew they were in some trouble but that's a mess. Looks like Colston might become a casualty next year, and it wont even save them a whole lot. Not sure how they're going to resign guys like Ingram either.

How not to work the salary cap.

rideaducati · Dec 12, 2014

Saw this coming when Drew Brees got his contract. NOBODY is worth 1/5 of the entire cap.

ctrcat · Dec 12, 2014

Popeyejones · Dec 12, 2014

I really llike Barnwell a lot (probably my favorite NFL columnist), but he's catastrophizing a bit in this piece. Just on the back of the envelope he shaved 14 million without giving up much talent (all aging and much less effective vets), and in order to have a column he never types the obvious sentence about what the Saints will do, and what ALL teams with high paid QBs do to manage the cap:

Restructure Brees' contract.

hawknation2014 · Dec 12, 2014

It sounds like the Saints may have a tough time trying to re-sign Mark Ingram. I like Ingram's running style. Other than Eddie Lacy, he is probably the running back in the league who best mimics Beast Mode's uncanny ability to gain yards after contact.

Maulbert · Dec 12, 2014

hawknation2014":1ey8hdvk said:
It sounds like the Saints may have a tough time trying to re-sign Mark Ingram. I like Ingram's running style. Other than Eddie Lacy, he is probably the running back in the league who best mimics Beast Mode's uncanny ability to gain yards after contact.

Amusingly, both Alabama backs, and neither considered as good as superbust Trent Richardson coming out of college (also an Alabama back).

hawknation2014 · Dec 12, 2014

Maulbert":asx0ndjw said:
hawknation2014":asx0ndjw said:

It sounds like the Saints may have a tough time trying to re-sign Mark Ingram. I like Ingram's running style. Other than Eddie Lacy, he is probably the running back in the league who best mimics Beast Mode's uncanny ability to gain yards after contact.

Click to expand...

Amusingly, both Alabama backs, and neither considered as good as superbust Trent Richardson coming out of college (also an Alabama back).

That was an amazing RB trio at Alabama. It reminds me of Cal in 2004 when they had Lynch, J.J. Arrington, and Justin Forsett at RB (they also had Brandon Mebane and former Pro Bowler Lorenzo Alexander on defense, not to mention Aaron Rodgers at QB).

Richardson benefited from the reputation that Ingram made for himself by winning the Heisman as a sophomore and then becoming a successful First Round pick in 2011. Richardson proved to be a slightly elevated version of what I think Robert Turbin would be if he were a feature back, flashing amazing athleticism but going down easily on first contact. Subsequent to Richardson's lackluster rookie season, Lacy was hurt in the draft by the poor reputation Richardson had made for himself. A lot of people mistakenly pigeonholed Lacy as being the next Richardson.

All three backs are 24 years old. Ingram and Lacy at least benefited from playing on offenses that don't like to run the ball very much, although I expect to see Lacy's output increase over the next couple years. Ingram in particular has had very limited wear on that New Orleans' offense that had so many options, having run the ball an average of just 11 times per game over the last four seasons. New Orleans lost three close games this season (seven points or less) when they gave Ingram fewer than 12 carries.

Ingram is young, has limited tread on his tires, and is one of the most talented backs in the league. Even with his injury history, I doubt New Orleans will be able to re-sign him without significant personnel cost.

AsylumGuido · Dec 13, 2014

rideaducati":9530y4h0 said:
Saw this coming when Drew Brees got his contract. NOBODY is worth 1/5 of the entire cap.

Brees wasn't 1/5th of the entire cap. Not sure where you are getting that from? His contract was five years at $100M total. His cap hits are as follows:

YEAR ..... CAP HIT ........ CAP
2012 .....10,400,000 ..... 120,600,000
2013 ..... 7,400,000 ..... 123,000,000
2014 ..... 8,400,000 ...... 133,000,000
2015 ..... 26,400,000 ..... 145,000,000
2016 ..... 27,400,000 ..... ?????

Brees will restructure this offseason and the annual cap hits will go down markedly for 2015 and 2016. At no point in time was Brees ever counting anywhere close to 20% of the cap.

kobebryant · Dec 13, 2014

hawknation2014":apx56apy said:
Maulbert":apx56apy said:

hawknation2014":apx56apy said:

It sounds like the Saints may have a tough time trying to re-sign Mark Ingram. I like Ingram's running style. Other than Eddie Lacy, he is probably the running back in the league who best mimics Beast Mode's uncanny ability to gain yards after contact.

Click to expand...

Amusingly, both Alabama backs, and neither considered as good as superbust Trent Richardson coming out of college (also an Alabama back).

Click to expand...

That was an amazing RB trio at Alabama. It reminds me of Cal in 2004 when they had Lynch, J.J. Arrington, and Justin Forsett at RB (they also had Brandon Mebane and former Pro Bowler Lorenzo Alexander on defense, not to mention Aaron Rodgers at QB).

Richardson benefited from the reputation that Ingram made for himself by winning the Heisman as a sophomore and then becoming a successful First Round pick in 2011. Richardson proved to be a slightly elevated version of what I think Robert Turbin would be if he were a feature back, flashing amazing athleticism but going down easily on first contact. Subsequent to Richardson's lackluster rookie season, Lacy was hurt in the draft by the poor reputation Richardson had made for himself. A lot of people mistakenly pigeonholed Lacy as being the next Richardson.

All three backs are 24 years old. Ingram and Lacy at least benefited from playing on offenses that don't like to run the ball very much, although I expect to see Lacy's output increase over the next couple years. Ingram in particular has had very limited wear on that New Orleans' offense that had so many options, having run the ball an average of just 11 times per game over the last four seasons. New Orleans lost three close games this season (seven points or less) when they gave Ingram fewer than 12 carries.

Ingram is young, has limited tread on his tires, and is one of the most talented backs in the league. Even with his injury history, I doubt New Orleans will be able to re-sign him without significant personnel cost.

Is there a program that has accomplished less with as much NFL talent as Cal has had?

Rodgers, Lynch, Forsett, Best, Rodgers (TE), Djack, Mack, Mebane, C Jordan, Bishop, Decoud, Alualu, Kendricks, Allen

Hasselbeck · Dec 13, 2014

kobebryant":3g7ovfxm said:
Is there a program that has accomplished less with as much NFL talent as Cal has had?

Rodgers, Lynch, Forsett, Best, Rodgers (TE), Djack, Mack, Mebane, C Jordan, Bishop, Decoud, Alualu, Kendricks, Allen

Cal was a legit Rose Bowl contender (and arguably should have gotten in) when Rodgers was at QB .. the QB's that played at Cal after Rodgers were anywhere from nothing special (Boller) to downright terrible, so a lot of this pro talent never saw its full potential.

And while Rodgers was still really good in college, he was far removed from the Aaron Rodgers of today. So kind of an unfair critique here.

rideaducati · Dec 13, 2014

AsylumGuido":3ra1wny8 said:
rideaducati":3ra1wny8 said:

Saw this coming when Drew Brees got his contract. NOBODY is worth 1/5 of the entire cap.

Click to expand...

Brees wasn't 1/5th of the entire cap. Not sure where you are getting that from? His contract was five years at $100M total. His cap hits are as follows:

YEAR ..... CAP HIT ........ CAP
2012 .....10,400,000 ..... 120,600,000
2013 ..... 7,400,000 ..... 123,000,000
2014 ..... 8,400,000 ...... 133,000,000
2015 ..... 26,400,000 ..... 145,000,000
2016 ..... 27,400,000 ..... ?????

Brees will restructure this offseason and the annual cap hits will go down markedly for 2015 and 2016. At no point in time was Brees ever counting anywhere close to 20% of the cap.

He became the highest paid QB in the NFL and the Aints have gone downhill since. A bit of exaggeration with my first post...

I would like these QBs to pay attention to what has happened to teams when they pay their QB so much. It's like they don't think they need good players around them to succeed and they're just greedy.

mikeak · Dec 13, 2014

The CAP projections have been significantly below actual the last two. Add to this a renewed TV deal and I expect it closer to $150million than $140 - but we shall see. Yes totally a gut feeling but the people with all the numbers haven't been close for two years....

With that said. Compare where the Seahawks stand going into 2015 and it is funny how all the experts say we will be in trouble....

mikeak · Dec 13, 2014

Second reason why Seattle is so far from in cap trouble is that even if we got there we have basically zero trick contracts. If anything we have more front loaded or balanced agreements so if this team ever finds itself against the cap all the tricks in the book are left.

My takeaway - Saints will truly suffer over a few years and Seattle is in a good sport for about 5 years - just no more Harvin deals...

How the Saints Ended Up in Salary-Cap Hell

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