New Englands Punishment if found guilty? Thoughts?

ringless · Jan 27, 2015

I know that it won't happen. But if the league had concluded that it was highly likely that the Patriots had been doing this since 2007 what do you feel would be a fair punishment?

In my eyes, it isn't just the fumbles. It's that a lot of catches wouldn't have happened, a lot of third downs may not have been converted, it would have had an increase in drops. More turnovers, and all of that resulting in more losses every season. It means they played in games they shouldn't have in the playoffs, they got bye's they didn't deserve.

I would feel that none of Tom Brady's accomplishments should be officially recognized, or have an asterisk next to them, including Bills. No HOF possibilities for either. I also would want them both Suspended for a season, with severe fines, and loss of draft picks from the organization. It makes it worse that Tom is the guy who petitioned to have the rule changed in the first place. I'm curious to see peoples feelings on punishment...

titan3131 · Jan 27, 2015

I really liked colin cowherds idea of having to do hard knocks for at least 2 years.

Sherminator · Jan 27, 2015

ringless":1r74jti1 said:
I know that it won't happen. But if the league had concluded that it was highly likely that the Patriots had been doing this since 2007 what do you feel would be a fair punishment?

In my eyes, it isn't just the fumbles. It's that a lot of catches wouldn't have happened, a lot of third downs may not have been converted, it would have had an increase in drops. More turnovers, and all of that resulting in more losses every season. It means they played in games they shouldn't have in the playoffs, they got bye's they didn't deserve.

I would feel that none of Tom Brady's accomplishments should be officially recognized, or have an asterisk next to them, including Bills. No HOF possibilities for either. I also would want them both Suspended for a season, with severe fines, and loss of draft picks from the organization. It makes it worse that Tom is the guy who petitioned to have the rule changed in the first place. I'm curious to see peoples feelings on punishment...

I agree with the bolded.
I mean at this point other than loss of draft picks and fines what can they do? I will say if they win this SB I think Hawk fans would have a right to feel cheated, because the Pats did in fact cheat to get in (although I doubt the Colts were gonna win anyways).

I also hate this argument that "every QB tampers with the ball", that does 0 to support the Pats.
The ball shall be made up of an inflated (12 1/2 to 13 1/2 pounds) urethane bladder enclosed in a pebble grained, leather case (natural tan color) without corrugations of any kind. It shall have the form of a prolate spheroid and the size and weight shall be: long axis, 11 to 11 1/4 inches; long circumference, 28 to 28 1/2 inches; short circumference, 21 to 21 1/4 inches; weight, 14 to 15 ounces.

I pulled that from the rule book, apparently the Pats were around 9-10 pounds?
It's not even considered in the "gray" area at that point, its flat out cheating.

scutterhawk · Jan 27, 2015

ringless":3gfs9lqs said:
I know that it won't happen. But if the league had concluded that it was highly likely that the Patriots had been doing this since 2007 what do you feel would be a fair punishment?

In my eyes, it isn't just the fumbles. It's that a lot of catches wouldn't have happened, a lot of third downs may not have been converted, it would have had an increase in drops. More turnovers, and all of that resulting in more losses every season. It means they played in games they shouldn't have in the playoffs, they got bye's they didn't deserve.

I would feel that none of Tom Brady's accomplishments should be officially recognized, or have an asterisk next to them, including Bills. No HOF possibilities for either. I also would want them both Suspended for a season, with severe fines, and loss of draft picks from the organization. It makes it worse that Tom is the guy who petitioned to have the rule changed in the first place. I'm curious to see peoples feelings on punishment...

You've already answered your own question in your first sentence.
Commissioner Roger Goodell works for 32 owners in the league, but is really close to Robert Kraft, so, I don't see a damned thing being done to punish them for being cheaters.
They have made it a habit to do whatever it takes to win.
Did the Colts have a chance to win that game?, hell no, but how about other CLOSE games that they won, did cheating give them the edge to win those games?
It's disgusting to think that they will more than likely get away with doing shit like that,
There's a pattern, that can't be ignored.
Integrity takes another hit by the Patriots.

Basis4day · Jan 27, 2015

titan3131":2tvrcwne said:
I really liked colin cowherds idea of having to do hard knocks for at least 2 years.

Make it three

VivaEfrenHerrera · Jan 27, 2015

It's going to be pretty interesting to see.

The league's got to be "wicked pissed" at Belichick and Brady. Look at the position they've put the NFL in with this. The Hoodie and the Dimple have been the Red, White 'n Blue face of the league for almost 15 years now, and this is how -- after getting a get-out-of-jail-free card on Spygate -- that loyalty is repaid?

Brutal. Just brutal.

The fumbling data is the lynchpin here, and what makes everything so very troubling. Just punishment starts at lifetime ban for Belichick and Brady retiring in disgrace as soon as we see zeroes on the clock Sunday. Maybe you take away a year's worth of draft picks as well. This is such an egregious situation, such a huge Eff You to the league and all the other teams in it, that the brass is really backed into a corner here. Either administer some kind of "death penalty" or broadcast that systematic, effective cheating doesn't matter.

What will Goodell and cronies do? Who knows. It's not like they've been consistent in any way with any policy at all during his tenure.

Magic823 · Jan 27, 2015

If they are found to have done it since 2007, then vacate all their wins since then, massive fines, Belicheat permanent ban and loss of one years draft class.

Sports Hernia · Jan 27, 2015

:stirthepot: They should also take their Lombardi trophies away and melt them down. 8)

SnoCoHawk · Jan 27, 2015

If it were absolutely proven that they've been cheating for years? Lifetime ban for coach and quarterback, ineligible for the Hall of Fame, asterisks next to all season records. Go all Pete Rose on their asses.

sc85sis · Jan 27, 2015

I'm probably going to be unpopular for saying this, but I'm not sure Belichick actually would have known about this unless Brady or someone on the equipment staff clued him in. Pete mentioned in one of his recent press conferences (on Monday, I think) that he had no real idea how the process worked prior to this issue arising. They have staff to do that and they trust them to do it.

Brady is a different kettle of fish. He picks the balls. The equipment staff knows his preferences. He'd have to notice if the footballs were flatter than normal.

pmedic920 · Jan 28, 2015

If Brady is responsible, IMO he should be banned from the NFL, AND have all HOF privileges revoked.

Bare minimum, 1 yr suspension and no HOF.

If it turns out to be more of a "TEAM" thing.
They should lose a first round pick to each of this seasons opponents AND be deemed ineligible for Play Offs x2 years.
Yes, even if it takes many years to give up that many first round picks.

Lords of Scythia · Jan 28, 2015

sc85sis":1bl19oo1 said:
I'm probably going to be unpopular for saying this, but I'm not sure Belichick actually would have known about this unless Brady or someone on the equipment staff clued him in. Pete mentioned in one of his recent press conferences (on Monday, I think) that he had no real idea how the process worked prior to this issue arising. They have staff to do that and they trust them to do it.

Brady is a different kettle of fish. He picks the balls. The equipment staff knows his preferences. He'd have to notice if the footballs were flatter than normal.

Before the Pats got their story straight, Belichick was asked about it in a press conference and he threw Brady under the bus.

Largent80 · Jan 28, 2015

Make each person on the team including coaches, eat a Costco packaged size of Kraft Mac - n - cheese in one sitting.

homerun1970 · Jan 28, 2015

Largent80":x6m1r81h said:
Make each person on the team including coaches, eat a Costco packaged size of Kraft Mac - n - cheese in one sitting.

Damn you wanting to reward Wilfork? He doesnt like to go hungry though best get two.

Lords of Scythia · Jan 30, 2015

The NFL is going to wait until after the SB media frenzy goes away, then announce an inconclusive investigation--no punishment. It's the Seahawks they want to make an example out of. We're anti-establishment iconoclast anarchists on the West Coast, and the old school dickheads in the national media HATE us. That's why it would be so sweet to see a flat-out ass-stomping of NE in the the SB. GO HAWKS!

Evil_Shenanigans · Jan 30, 2015

There really isn't anything to directly compare this to. Videotaping your opponents (Spygate) is a far cry from paying bounties on players ala "Bountygate", but if you look at the results of those two (roughly) comparable infractions you should be able to draw some parallels as far as punishment.

Spygate- In the End Bellichick got a 500K fine, The Pats team got a 250K fine and the team was stripped of a FRDP. Again these are just the high points.

Bountygate- The Team got a 500K fine and lost a single SRDP in both the 2012 and 2013 seasons, and Payton and some of his subordinates were suspended for ~1 season. Also just the High points.

So unless you could prove(!) that they had been serial cheating for the past 7 years, any penalty is unlikely to be more than either of those two. I would guess it would be the standard 500K and a few Draft picks at worst. Then again I would bet that many millions of Dollars changed hands over Pats Games during that 7 year span. Teams potentially cheated out of Playoff spots and SuperBowl appearances etc etc. Then you open yourself up to lawsuits, and the league will by necessity have to make an example of them. I couldn't even speculate over what might happen then, maybe move them to London?

kearly · Jan 30, 2015

After seeing the fumble data get adequately debunked this week by multiple statisticians, I am now at the point where I wouldn't put an asterisk on the Patriots success. There's no way of proving how big of an impact it had on the games they'e played and Belichick has proven with spygate that he is willing to cheat to gain a nearly non-existent edge, so I'm inclined to think that deflating the footballs probably didn't help New England in a way that is as meaningful as it's been made out to be.

Roger Goodell was a different man in a different environment back during spygate. He didn't have people's respect so he tried to earn it with hardlining and false bravado, and it worked about as well for him as it did for Theon Greyjoy when he returned to Winterfel. (I'm pretending that Greyjoy was taller and fatter, and that Goodell is a few months away from being thrown into a hellish torture chamber run by Elijah Wood's stunt double).

Greyjoy now is a broken shell of a man. If I were any nerdier, I'd be tempted to start calling Goodell by his new name - Reek. Goodell isn't who he used to be, he's broken and castrated. The old Roger would have hammered the Pats here, but the new one feels too conflicted and maybe even a bit ambivalent. He will seek the path of least resistance.

Erebus · Jan 30, 2015

Remember, Rog suspended Payton with the justification of "ignorance is not an excuse. " So Belichick has to be suspended for a year if Goodell wants to avoid a shitstorm of accusations of favoritism. Plus there has to be at least a $500K fine and loss of draft picks.

SalishHawkFan · Jan 30, 2015

kearly":3i59o7rx said:
After seeing the fumble data get adequately debunked this week by multiple statisticians, I am now at the point where I wouldn't put an asterisk on the Patriots success. There's no way of proving how big of an impact it had on the games they'e played and Belichick has proven with spygate that he is willing to cheat to gain a nearly non-existent edge, so I'm inclined to think that deflating the footballs probably didn't help New England in a way that is as meaningful as it's been made out to be.

Roger Goodell was a different man in a different environment back during spygate. He didn't have people's respect so he tried to earn it with hardlining and false bravado, and it worked about as well for him as it did for Theon Greyjoy when he returned to Winterfel. (I'm pretending that Greyjoy was taller and fatter, and that Goodell is a few months away from being thrown into a hellish torture chamber run by Elijah Wood's stunt double).

Greyjoy now is a broken shell of a man. If I were any nerdier, I'd be tempted to start calling Goodell by his new name - Reek. Goodell isn't who he used to be, he's broken and castrated. The old Roger would have hammered the Pats here, but the new one feels too conflicted and maybe even a bit ambivalent. He will seek the path of least resistance.

What's troubling Kip, is that the fumble data didn't get adequately debunked. That's how Patriot defenders are treating it, but let's recap what got "debunked":

That skill positions who left the Patriots didn't have an increase in fumbliitis of 31.2%, just 23.4%. As the "debunkers" said, that's still indicative of cheating. Not sure why they're called debunkers.

The odds of the Patriots being such an outlier in those 5 yr. periods wasn't 16k to one, it was 2800 to one. However, it was also pointed out that using a 5 yr period was cherry picking. When one uses all the years from 2007 onwards however, and also adjusts for other methods the "debunkers" found questionable, it is found that the odds of the Patriots doing what they have done for the past 8 seasons is 1.4 MILLION to 1.

Again, that's hardly debunking. That's actually proving beyond all reasonable doubt that the only factor one could not eliminate is cheating.

Lords of Scythia · Jan 31, 2015

Largent80":3n1lwm8w said:
Make each person on the team including coaches, eat a Costco packaged size of Kraft Mac - n - cheese in one sitting.

Mac and cheeses....

....

New Englands Punishment if found guilty? Thoughts?

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