Tried to watch him and focus on his plays since he is with a new team. I know its only preseason but geeze a poor showing. It looked like the players he was going against was able to go lower than him and get under his pads almost standing him up on a few plays. He had no push what so ever and I do believe it was because he wasn't able to get leverage. But if he plays all season like that coming in on 3rd downs and some 2nd he is going to be a liability.
Darnell Dockett
- Thread starter ringless
- Start date
ringless":h5dfvqui said:
So....you are suggesting the way a 10+ year get played on about 5 plays in a person game is indicative of how he'll play this season?
Navorro Bowman played in three plays and had 3 tackles at or behind the LOS. I'm not suggesting he'll have 600 tackles this season.
MizzouHawkGal
Well-known member
Been trying to say this to my Chief brethren here but it just seems to get them angry or fall on deaf ears.NINEster":3o3l100w said:
mikeak
Well-known member
KC fans did get to see a TD pass to a WR so I would give them a pass on reading to much into this preseason.....
MizzouHawkGal
Well-known member
I do like a cat on her perch. Much like the Seahawks this year. I'm sensing a back half run for the ages. But the original point is valid.mikeak":r7cd1mu3 said:
Yes, my season prediction is way off. I'm seeing 11-5 or 10-6 with us being the team nobody wants to play ala 2012 but playoff hardened like the NYG v NE in their 16-0 year.
MizzouHawkGal":17z4zmxv said:
The trick to the preseason is simply to realize that it means nothing. Win or lose by 30...doesn't matter. Too many things in play to screw with it's validity. No scheming on either side. Marquee or lightly injured players not playing. Vets with nothing to play for not going all out. People often site all those things when their team plays poorly, but it is equally true when their team plays well.
To me, the preseason is fun to watch just because its the first time we get to see these guys in some time, get back into the fun of football season, and to watch individual players with something to prove...IE, rookies, FAs, etc.
I never really draw too many conclusions, but it is nice to see when guys play well. I just don't always count on that carrying over into the regular season.
mikeak
Well-known member
^ I don't agree that it means nothing
Lockett playing as WR and having nice catches tells me he may get quite a few snaps in that position. I don't think that was a given when he was drafted.
Sure if he doesn't do anything with it then he will not play but I think he will get more time on the field as a rookie than Norwood did as a rookie.
Clark looking good -- I think that is a positive sign and I think he will be a contributing player and not a bust
Those things I think you can look for. If the score is 30-20 or 7-30 that I don't draw anyting from. If a WR goes on a tear against a prevent style simple defense - nope don't read to much into that
If Jordy Nelson is on my team and tears an ACL - yep I read some into that as well......
Lockett playing as WR and having nice catches tells me he may get quite a few snaps in that position. I don't think that was a given when he was drafted.
Sure if he doesn't do anything with it then he will not play but I think he will get more time on the field as a rookie than Norwood did as a rookie.
Clark looking good -- I think that is a positive sign and I think he will be a contributing player and not a bust
Those things I think you can look for. If the score is 30-20 or 7-30 that I don't draw anyting from. If a WR goes on a tear against a prevent style simple defense - nope don't read to much into that
If Jordy Nelson is on my team and tears an ACL - yep I read some into that as well......
purpleneer
New member
I think a better way to look at it is that results mean nothing. It is very common to confuse performance and results with each other. And in the preseason, even performance should be viewed with strong consideration to context (for all the reasons listed above).Marvin49":1os1stdf said:
rideaducati
New member
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2012
- Messages
- 5,414
- Reaction score
- 0
mikeak":2reoo072 said:
Does that "touchdown to a wide receiver" really count as a touchdown to a wide receiver? The "receiver" was lined up as a running back when the ball was snapped.
Pandion Haliaetus
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2013
- Messages
- 3,864
- Reaction score
- 803
Uhm......... Note to Niner fans... There is kind of a big difference between...
A 6'0, 240 pound LBer two years removed from an age 25 injury (ACL).
AND
A 6'4, 300 pound DT one year removed from an age 33 injury (ACL).
Not that I care either way but the OP does have a point about Dockett: He's big, tall, and old coming back from a serious injury.
And I say for any DT, legs are the most important part of thier body because thats where most of thier power and leverage comes from.
Knees are vital for any football player's legs as flexibility is a key element in binding that power and leverage.
So its not surprising that a 34 year old DT who stands 6'4 and carries a lot of weight with a bum knee would struggle in maintaining leverage and sustaining power.
Those are just facts. Dockett might be servicable in a limited role and his expertise certainly will help develop the youth within 49ers D-Line but...
Its not far fetched at all that Dockett will be a shell of his former dominant self.
Using Bowman as an example is really a poor, counter argument. The dude was the best downhill LBer in the game before his injury, even if he came back 20% off his former game, he's still a top 10 ILB.
Dockett was a quality player in his last two seasons in '12 and '13 but he was already trending downwards. DD hasnt been a consistently dominant DT since his '10, '11 seasons but more so in 2009 which was when he was one of the elite DTs in the game.
2009 was 6 years ago but carry on 49ers fans. Oh, and im sure Ringless, the resident Cards fan, would have the best understanding of Dockett former and present. And I doubt despite his history he is negatively judging a player because of his detest of all 49ers.
So honestly I would respect R-Less's insight on a former Cards great that he has probably seen play over a 100 of times.
A 6'0, 240 pound LBer two years removed from an age 25 injury (ACL).
AND
A 6'4, 300 pound DT one year removed from an age 33 injury (ACL).
Not that I care either way but the OP does have a point about Dockett: He's big, tall, and old coming back from a serious injury.
And I say for any DT, legs are the most important part of thier body because thats where most of thier power and leverage comes from.
Knees are vital for any football player's legs as flexibility is a key element in binding that power and leverage.
So its not surprising that a 34 year old DT who stands 6'4 and carries a lot of weight with a bum knee would struggle in maintaining leverage and sustaining power.
Those are just facts. Dockett might be servicable in a limited role and his expertise certainly will help develop the youth within 49ers D-Line but...
Its not far fetched at all that Dockett will be a shell of his former dominant self.
Using Bowman as an example is really a poor, counter argument. The dude was the best downhill LBer in the game before his injury, even if he came back 20% off his former game, he's still a top 10 ILB.
Dockett was a quality player in his last two seasons in '12 and '13 but he was already trending downwards. DD hasnt been a consistently dominant DT since his '10, '11 seasons but more so in 2009 which was when he was one of the elite DTs in the game.
2009 was 6 years ago but carry on 49ers fans. Oh, and im sure Ringless, the resident Cards fan, would have the best understanding of Dockett former and present. And I doubt despite his history he is negatively judging a player because of his detest of all 49ers.
So honestly I would respect R-Less's insight on a former Cards great that he has probably seen play over a 100 of times.
dopeboy206
Active member
- Joined
- May 7, 2013
- Messages
- 1,114
- Reaction score
- 9
Marvin49":1lasnejp said:
Nobody is saying Bowman will get 600 tackles this season. He will get 400. ;-)
Popeyejones
Active member
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2013
- Messages
- 5,525
- Reaction score
- 0
Ringless --
As I recall when you thought the Cards were going to be able to retain Dockett you were excited about how much he would bring back to the Cardinals defense (and thought it was a done deal because he bleeds Cardinal-red or something (I don't remember you're exact phrasing)), but as soon as he signed with the 9ers you decided he was old, over the hill, and wouldn't be able to come back to his previous form.
I only say this because I think there might be more context than you let on to your doomsday scenario which is based on a handful of pre-season snaps in his first game back. Basically, if he had had the exact same handful of snaps in a pre-season game while still bleeding Cardinals-red, I seriously have my doubts that this thread would exist.
As I recall when you thought the Cards were going to be able to retain Dockett you were excited about how much he would bring back to the Cardinals defense (and thought it was a done deal because he bleeds Cardinal-red or something (I don't remember you're exact phrasing)), but as soon as he signed with the 9ers you decided he was old, over the hill, and wouldn't be able to come back to his previous form.
I only say this because I think there might be more context than you let on to your doomsday scenario which is based on a handful of pre-season snaps in his first game back. Basically, if he had had the exact same handful of snaps in a pre-season game while still bleeding Cardinals-red, I seriously have my doubts that this thread would exist.
dopeboy206
Active member
- Joined
- May 7, 2013
- Messages
- 1,114
- Reaction score
- 9
Popeyejones":1pzqjdfr said:
Got em!!!!
Popeyejones
Active member
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2013
- Messages
- 5,525
- Reaction score
- 0
Here we go. From Feb 27:
And since the day he signed with the 9ers that has become:
What's funny here is that originally Ringless valued Dockett to the Cards at 4-5 million, and now that the 9ers are paying him 3.75 million he is now "overpaid" :lol:
Ringless":2gvfweo8 said:
And since the day he signed with the 9ers that has become:
Ringless":2gvfweo8 said:
What's funny here is that originally Ringless valued Dockett to the Cards at 4-5 million, and now that the 9ers are paying him 3.75 million he is now "overpaid" :lol:
Ringless":2gvfweo8 said:
Ringless":2gvfweo8 said:
Popeyejones":32do7cwo said:
Yes I truly believed he bled Cardinal red. I am sure a lot of you felt the same way about Gore. So I said he remained part of the team when injured. I still think thats a great quality to have. Obviously there is a reason no one on this board is a GM. Our FO was privy to a lot more information regarding his health, and performance than I was. Here is a perfect example. Dockett had his injury in August, Palmer in November. Palmer was 100% cleared before training camp this year. Dockett, with 3-4 more months of recovery was not.
At the time I did believe he was an upgrade. What can I say I've always enjoyed watching him play. I remember how upset I was when Adrian Wilson was released. I didn't want to believe that he was not the same player I grew up watching. There is a reason why the FO makes the decisions fans can't. Both are perfect examples. When I watched the game I was watching him specifically and was excited to see what he could do. A lot more information is available to me now then there was in April. In April I assumed he wouldn't be missing OTA's and part of training camp but he did.
I assumed he would be the player that I loved. But he wasn't. He was a guy who got zero push. Got stood up. And appeared to lack the power he use to have. I understand its preseason but the signs are trending downward. Im a fan, I will admit my bitterness in the fact that he is with SF. But I will applaud my FO on not being blind like myself
