Circumventing the salary cap

How exactly is this prevented?

When I lived in Australia I use to watch the NRL and one team got busted doing so. A championship team in fact called the Melbourne Storm.

I know that the 49ers were busted for it back in 1999-2000 which was a few year after the salary cap had been put in place. But the question is, if they were able to do it. Why couldn't another team.

What initially got me thinking about this was today I was listening to our local sports radio. They were talking about the most under paid QB in the entire league. Tom...... Brady....

"Brady restructured his contract with the Patriots on December 29, 2014, converting $24 million in full guarantees to $27 million in injury only guarantees. " PFF

According to SI
" the deal added an extension with “out years”—2015, 2016 and 2017—at salaries of $7, $8, and $9 million, respectively. As anyone with even a casual following of the business of football knows, these are startlingly low numbers for a quarterback of Brady’s caliber"

Well, the contract did get upgraded, but not an upgrade with true meaning for Brady. It added a relatively insignificant $1 million per year, bringing the salaries to $8 million this year, $9 and $10 million for 2016 and 2017, while invalidating a clause that had fully guaranteed those years (an injury-only guarantee replaced it).
This renegotiation at the end of last season represented yet another curious chapter to this contract. Perhaps the Patriots wanted to avoid funding a guarantee for their best player; perhaps it was an expedient way to get Brady another $3 million. In either case, why would the Patriots and Brady only nominally upgrade a massively undervalued contract, while devaluing the guarantee in the process? Why is Brady still astoundingly underpaid?

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2015/09/30/tom- ... salary-cap

What would stop a team like this from circumventing the cap? How could it be proven? Why would Tom Brady be playing for 8 Million this year, 9 Million next year, and 10 in 2017?

The rest of the money he is getting for his current three year extension is money from his old deal. Why would he be willing to take 10-15 million less a year than other QB's. Not only does he take a huge paycut. He then takes it from being guaranteed to non-guaranteed. I just don't get it. I could understand a small pay cut. But not 15 million a year. Thats 45 million he could get on just about any other team over the next 3 years.

I am by no means insulating this is the case. It is just a general question with an example

Maybe he's getting free macaroni and cheese for life too.

Msfann":lxkdbn5c said:

Maybe he's getting free macaroni and cheese for life too.

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More than likely free packing supplies and boxes.

Must be some other compensation promised. Perhaps guaranteed employment after he retires?

Rex":1pb32wjq said:

Must be some other compensation promised. Perhaps guaranteed employment after he retires?

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Or he has made so much money for so long that he's more in it for the rings at this point than getting top dollar value off his Patriots contract. For a guy like Brady I have to assume that his promotional work and investments dwarf whatever difference there would be in him playing out his last few years below market rate.


As for Ringless' question, I don't really think there's anything in place. When Steve Young renegotiated his contract down by 1.5 million he had a verbal agreement in place that he'd get it back on his next deal. Same story with Brent Jones for 500K.

Even the 9ers didn't get "caught" by the NFL in the traditional sense. Instead, John York went to the NFL with the information.

Popeyejones":3oezwkjm said:

Rex":3oezwkjm said:

Must be some other compensation promised. Perhaps guaranteed employment after he retires?

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Or he has made so much money for so long that he's more in it for the rings at this point than getting top dollar value off his Patriots contract. For a guy like Brady I have to assume that his promotional work and investments dwarf whatever difference there would be in him playing out his last few years below market rate.


As for Ringless' question, I don't really think there's anything in place. When Steve Young renegotiated his contract down by 1.5 million he had a verbal agreement in place that he'd get it back on his next deal. Same story with Brent Jones for 500K.

Even the 9ers didn't get "caught" by the NFL in the traditional sense. Instead, John York went to the NFL with the information.

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Was gonna say...

I always viewed that as John and Denise sticking it to Eddie...in a cut off your nose to spite your face sorta way.

They 49ers came forward with that one. It had something to do with renegotiating Brent Jones contract in order to sign...wait for it...Jim Druckenmiller to his rookie deal.

If a team makes a promise of $$$ or some other reward that isn't specifically written into the contract, I really don't know how you police that. Every contract goes before the league office for approval, but they can only approve what's written on the page.

Popeyejones":2bydtlqx said:

Rex":2bydtlqx said:

Must be some other compensation promised. Perhaps guaranteed employment after he retires?

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Or he has made so much money for so long that he's more in it for the rings at this point than getting top dollar value off his Patriots contract. For a guy like Brady I have to assume that his promotional work and investments dwarf whatever difference there would be in him playing out his last few years below market rate.


As for Ringless' question, I don't really think there's anything in place. When Steve Young renegotiated his contract down by 1.5 million he had a verbal agreement in place that he'd get it back on his next deal. Same story with Brent Jones for 500K.

Even the 9ers didn't get "caught" by the NFL in the traditional sense. Instead, John York went to the NFL with the information.

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I don't believe that not given the huge discrepancy in pay that ringless pointed out. It doesn't look credible.

Rex":32ynlhdg said:

Popeyejones":32ynlhdg said:

Rex":32ynlhdg said:

Must be some other compensation promised. Perhaps guaranteed employment after he retires?

Click to expand...

Or he has made so much money for so long that he's more in it for the rings at this point than getting top dollar value off his Patriots contract. For a guy like Brady I have to assume that his promotional work and investments dwarf whatever difference there would be in him playing out his last few years below market rate.


As for Ringless' question, I don't really think there's anything in place. When Steve Young renegotiated his contract down by 1.5 million he had a verbal agreement in place that he'd get it back on his next deal. Same story with Brent Jones for 500K.

Even the 9ers didn't get "caught" by the NFL in the traditional sense. Instead, John York went to the NFL with the information.

Click to expand...

I don't believe that not given the huge discrepancy in pay that ringless pointed out. It doesn't look credible.

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I was listening to the Burns and Gambo show and they just said (and I didn't get to hear the whole thing) That it would be more understanding if he took a million or two of a paycut. But not being paid only a third of what the best are getting paid.

There is no evidence of this, and it's a rather unlikely situation. My main question is what prevents it? It has been done in other sports before. I guess it would be hard to prove in any situation.

Given its the Cheatriots nothing will ever be done even if it is proven.

Rex":3ikecimu said:

I don't believe that not given the huge discrepancy in pay that ringless pointed out. It doesn't look credible.

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Well, I mean part of it is that in the link RIngless posted the author is BSing to make his case.

To make the discrepancy look larger the author is only counting base salaries rather than doing what everyone always does which is counting actual cap hit (inclusive bonus).

If we did what the author is doing with Brady than the real smoking gun is Aaron Rodgers, because if we only count his base salary he's ONLY MAKING ONE MILLION DOLLARS THIS YEAR ZOMG!!!!

I mean, read for yourself:

"the deal added an extension with “out years”—2015, 2016 and 2017—at salaries of $7, $8, and $9 million, respectively. As anyone with even a casual following of the business of football knows, these are startlingly low numbers for a quarterback of Brady’s caliber"

Click to expand...

Of course they're "startingly low numbers" because it is complete and total nonsense to only count base salaries, as, using the author's own words against him, "anyone with even a casual following of the business of football knows."

Here's what actually happened (rather than the steaming pile of BS that SI is peddling):

1) In 2012 Brees signed a massive contract that averaged 20 million APY, but backloaded the money and even with a final year that was as fake as could be and was worth 30% of the whole contract. Even this year is inflated due to a restructure bonus he got from taking less in previous years.

2) In 2013 at the age of 36 Brady signed a contract through 2018 that made him the #2 paid QB behind Brees, but in exchange he got his salries guantanteed and got his money evenly spread out over the life of the contract instead of backloaded (let alone with fake years of inflated contract tacked on at the end).

3) Since then QB contracts have ballooned, and rather than forcing Brady to play under the deal he signed, they're now giving him an extra million a year over the last three years.


TL;DR 1) If the author wasn't lying through his teeth Brady's contract wouldn't look so low, and 2) in the sequence of contracts Brady has become the victim of being one of the first out the gate to sign his most recent contract, which Pats rectified a tad by giving him more money than he would have gotten had his contract been left alone.

Or, put another way, if you think Brady should be paid more you're basically arguing that he should have held out with three years left on his deal, but from the Kam situation, I think that's probably not what you intend to be arguing.

ringless":1ujvhzkl said:

I was listening to the Burns and Gambo show and they just said (and I didn't get to hear the whole thing) That it would be more understanding if he took a million or two of a paycut. But not being paid only a third of what the best are getting paid.

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I'm guessing they just read the Brandt thing and somehow didn't realize how completely full of it Brandt was being.

What's accurate to say is that Brady in actual money this year is only making about 80% of what top QBs are getting this year, and it would have been less than that if the Pats didn't decide to just give him more money with three years still left on his deal.


As for your question though, seriously, I don't think the league does anthing. Like the 9ers, the Steelers also turned themselves in around the turn of the century for violations in the late 90s, and the Broncos were actually caught by the league for violations in the late 90s. I don't know of anything since then except for the absolutely preposterous "violations" of the Cowboys and Redskins in 2010 (in which they "violated" a contract that didn't exist).

Popeyejones":38fg5zak said:

Rex":38fg5zak said:

I don't believe that not given the huge discrepancy in pay that ringless pointed out. It doesn't look credible.

Click to expand...

Well, I mean part of it is that in the link RIngless posted the author is BSing to make his case.

To make the discrepancy look larger the author is only counting base salaries rather than doing what everyone always does which is counting actual cap hit (inclusive bonus).

If we did what the author is doing with Brady than the real smoking gun is Aaron Rodgers, because if we only count his base salary he's ONLY MAKING ONE MILLION DOLLARS THIS YEAR ZOMG!!!!

I mean, read for yourself:

"the deal added an extension with “out years”—2015, 2016 and 2017—at salaries of $7, $8, and $9 million, respectively. As anyone with even a casual following of the business of football knows, these are startlingly low numbers for a quarterback of Brady’s caliber"

Click to expand...

Of course they're "startingly low numbers" because it is complete and total nonsense to only count base salaries, as, using the author's own words against him, "anyone with even a casual following of the business of football knows."

Here's what actually happened (rather than the steaming pile of BS that SI is peddling):

1) In 2012 Brees signed a massive contract that averaged 20 million APY, but backloaded the money and even with a final year that was as fake as could be and was worth 30% of the whole contract. Even this year is inflated due to a restructure bonus he got from taking less in previous years.

2) In 2013 at the age of 36 Brady signed a contract through 2018 that made him the #2 paid QB behind Brees, but in exchange he got his salries guantanteed and got his money evenly spread out over the life of the contract instead of backloaded (let alone with fake years of inflated contract tacked on at the end).

3) Since then QB contracts have ballooned, and rather than forcing Brady to play under the deal he signed, they're now giving him an extra million a year over the last three years.


TL;DR 1) If the author wasn't lying through his teeth Brady's contract wouldn't look so low, and 2) in the sequence of contracts Brady has become the victim of being one of the first out the gate to sign his most recent contract, which Pats rectified a tad by giving him more money than he would have gotten had his contract been left alone.

Or, put another way, if you think Brady should be paid more you're basically arguing that he should have held out with three years left on his deal, but from the Kam situation, I think that's probably not what you intend to be arguing.

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Excellent post. Thank you. I do not follow the business of football other than being annoyed at all the reporting on the issue. I do remember reading about backloading contracts to usually the benefit of the team not the player. Again, thanks! :th2thumbs:

^^^ For sure. :th2thumbs:

One thing that I accidentally left out is that IIRC after Brady signed his contract in '13 later that Summer Rodgers signed his contract, which just totally blew everything out of the water and changed QB contracts from that point forward (still nobody has matched him, but everything is in relation to him).

Really what we're looking at IMO is 1) a silly fake contract to Brees in '12, and then 2) all other QB contracts essentially being "Before or After Rodgers", with Brady being the very last "before Rodgers" contract that was ever signed.

Popeyejones":16v6o374 said:

Rex":16v6o374 said:

I don't believe that not given the huge discrepancy in pay that ringless pointed out. It doesn't look credible.

Click to expand...

Well, I mean part of it is that in the link RIngless posted the author is BSing to make his case.

To make the discrepancy look larger the author is only counting base salaries rather than doing what everyone always does which is counting actual cap hit (inclusive bonus).

If we did what the author is doing with Brady than the real smoking gun is Aaron Rodgers, because if we only count his base salary he's ONLY MAKING ONE MILLION DOLLARS THIS YEAR ZOMG!!!!

I mean, read for yourself:

"the deal added an extension with “out years”—2015, 2016 and 2017—at salaries of $7, $8, and $9 million, respectively. As anyone with even a casual following of the business of football knows, these are startlingly low numbers for a quarterback of Brady’s caliber"

Click to expand...

Of course they're "startingly low numbers" because it is complete and total nonsense to only count base salaries, as, using the author's own words against him, "anyone with even a casual following of the business of football knows."

Here's what actually happened (rather than the steaming pile of BS that SI is peddling):

1) In 2012 Brees signed a massive contract that averaged 20 million APY, but backloaded the money and even with a final year that was as fake as could be and was worth 30% of the whole contract. Even this year is inflated due to a restructure bonus he got from taking less in previous years.

2) In 2013 at the age of 36 Brady signed a contract through 2018 that made him the #2 paid QB behind Brees, but in exchange he got his salries guantanteed and got his money evenly spread out over the life of the contract instead of backloaded (let alone with fake years of inflated contract tacked on at the end).

3) Since then QB contracts have ballooned, and rather than forcing Brady to play under the deal he signed, they're now giving him an extra million a year over the last three years.


TL;DR 1) If the author wasn't lying through his teeth Brady's contract wouldn't look so low, and 2) in the sequence of contracts Brady has become the victim of being one of the first out the gate to sign his most recent contract, which Pats rectified a tad by giving him more money than he would have gotten had his contract been left alone.

Or, put another way, if you think Brady should be paid more you're basically arguing that he should have held out with three years left on his deal, but from the Kam situation, I think that's probably not what you intend to be arguing.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the explanation. I was really struggling with this and wondering what Brady's signing bonus was and what was the cap hit vs the salary. These NFL contracts make it very hard to determine how much money any of these guys are making. People can take these numbers and spin them anyway they please...makes it hard to separate fact from fiction.

^^^For sure.

You can look up players on spotrac and get the full breakdown of their deals. The meaningful # is the cap hit (how much they're actually getting paid), not just the base salary.

Aaron Rodgers is the great example of why: this year his base salary is 1 million, but his signing bonus is 6.7 million, his roster bonus is 10.1 million, and his workout bonus is 500K, so his total salary is actually 18 million, not 1.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-pa ... n-rodgers/

Don't forget that Brady is not the bread winner in the family......

http://www.forbes.com/sites#/sites/nata ... -the-show/

"Year after year since 2002, Gisele Bundchen has made more money than any other model in the world. At 34, she is still sitting pretty at the top of the world’s highest-paid models list, pulling in an estimated $47 million before taxes and fees in the last 12 months."

You can look at his paycut differently. If you have that much money but love to play the game it is truly worth it to have a better o-line and better receivers and not take a daily beating and get paid less.....

Everything the Pats do is called into question now. Brady's dollars could be legit. It doesn't matter. Credibility is gone.

It's the Patriots...I guarantee they're doing something outside the rules and Brady will be making money as long as Kraft owns the team.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/ ... story.html

Hmmmm. Maybe they just are circumventing the cap one way or another.

I have thought the pats were somehow paying Brady off the books for a while, but then I see that Brady's wife makes $40 million per year. I still think there is something shady going on, but it's plausible that Tawmy took less so others could be signed.