hawknation2015
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They are continually exploiting the referees' unwillingness to enforce the rule against 12 men in the huddle in critical situations to prevent the opposing defense from knowing who to substitute.
Carolina taking their cues from the Cheatriots
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hawknation2015
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Laloosh":3g9gqhn4 said:
They can count . . . they just aren't used to making this call and are probably hesitant about moving the offense back on critical 4th and 3rd and shorts. Ron Rivera's excuse for this happening over and over again makes zero sense:
“We had some young guys we were trying to get some more playing time to and we’re shoving guys in and out and they’ve got to make sure they hear the personnel calls, see the signals and pay attention to those things. That’s something that really bothered me. It really upset me on the sideline," said Rivera.
Riiiiiiiiiiight.
Sports Hernia
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That's funny because the refs at my nephew's junior high football games count the players every play, and there are only 3 official. They have kids going in and out every play and it's was the most called penalty for and against in 6 games I watched.Laloosh":3uya0dyw said:
RedAlice
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Isn't it a publicly stated and known fact by everyone, including Hawk fans, that the Hawks gauge the refs plan to throw penalties and then adjust?
Sports Hernia
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It shouldn't upset him if he is getting away with it everytime.hawknation2015":q92d2grc said:
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hawknation2015
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RedAlice":1jnvr4yh said:
No, that's a gross misperception that breeds from a place of envy.
You are confusing two things. The false perception that our dominant secondary commits PI/holding more than any other team, which is simply not true. And the fact that players like Michael Bennett use their instincts to guess the snap count, and sometimes get called for encroachment for that reason.
The difference is none of the players are trying "get away" with anything, unlike the Rams . . . who are categorically the dirtiest, cheap-shoting team in the league.
RedAlice
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hawknation2015":3kn3xsos said:
Nope...no envy. I respect the Hawks game. Rams are not good enough to be in contention yet, so don't put your thoughts onto me. I'm a very fair fan.
But, I also read this board and read your fans. Your tendency towards complaining about what you also
enjoy is showing here: in my opinion.
It has been stated previously that Hawk players try to see as much as they can get away with from the refs and then adjust. So, other teams do same. And when they do it, it bothers Hawk fans?
btw: no need to argue w me. I just find it amusing. Won't be getting all hot and bothered regardless.
eta: the topic was Panthers and Hawks. Why did you take a pot shot at the Rams to me? Can you not have an intelligent discussion with a Rams fan without resorting to such? I didn't bring up the Rams, and they have ZERO to do with this topic as preseented.
^^ Not much interpretation required when determining # of players in huddle whereas there is a bit more room for error with things that require a ref to use critical thinking skills.
12 in the huddle is pretty cut and dry.
12 in the huddle is pretty cut and dry.
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hawknation2015
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RedAlice":h7m4sx6a said:
It has been stated previously? By whom?
I'm only arguing with you because you made a blatantly false statement.
RedAlice
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hawknation2015":2so18crm said:
Except that I didn't.
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hawknation2015
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Just to be clear, these are your blatantly false statements. Supported by NOTHING.
:34853_doh:
RedAlice":29yyk29z said:
RedAlice":29yyk29z said:
:34853_doh:
RedAlice
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hawknation2015":2uatsh9z said:
Except that my statements are not false. Not even blatantly so.
btw - just my opinion on what I remember from Hawk fans. No need to get all upset.
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hawknation2015
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RedAlice":2lh38uwu said:
If you actually believe this to be prove, then provide a modicum of evidence to support your (IMO, mistaken and offensive) belief.
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Yet everytime seattle happens to end up with 12 man on the field they're called for it instantly.....
olyfan63
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hawknation2015":1z7b2xx9 said:
I think RedAlice's comments should be interpreted in the context of how our DB's play the opposing teams receivers, and how much contact the refs are allowing DBs to get away with. Think Brandon Browner mugging WR's at the line. Think Richard Sherman getting in the grill of whatever receiver he's covering.
In that context, I believe RedAlice's statements to be accurate. I don't think it's controversial or even any different than what happens at every level of sports. Coaching girls club soccer, I would regularly tell my players to adjust to how the refs are calling the game. Of course NFL players of ALL teams, not just the Seahawks, see how what the refs allow, what they can and can't get away with, and then adjust accordingly. It's silly to believe otherwise.
A similar situation would be how offensive line holding is or isn't being called by a set of refs.
Do you seriously need any "proof"? Or did you think RedAlice was talking about some other context?
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hawknation2015
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olyfan63":1ffskk32 said:
No, I just think you're wrong. There is a false PERCEPTION that Seahawks DBs are getting away with illegal contact. But when they tried to tighten up the rules last year to combat this perception, it turned out the Seahawks were not creating any more illegal contact than any other team. In fact, other teams bore the brunt of this increased emphasis, while the Seahawks did not feel it at all. As it turned out, the Seahawks were good because they played with excellent technique and discipline on an every-down basis. What do you know? It was reality trumping the false perception.
BigMeach
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RedAlice":1bfr58wj said:
You made me giggle.
"The topic was Panthers and Hawks" You're using that as the reason he shouldn't bring up the Rams? This topic had nothing to do with the Hawks, noone mentioned them. All you could say is it's in a Hawk forum but then he can say "well you're a Rams fan"
It just made me laugh out loud that you make a comment towards our team and then when someone goes back at yours you whipe your hands and try to play coy.
*giggle*
RichNhansom
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RedAlice":29lbz51p said:
I think there is a difference in seeing how officials make calls on judgement and if officials will call what is not judgement but blatantly a penalty by any definition of the rule.
It's kind of funny that Jim Harbaugh made the DB holding and PI calls a point of emphasis to the NFL rules committee and the head of officiating. The NFL then made it a point of emphasis and Jim's team was penalized for it more than the Seahawks. Actually every team was but lets not let facts get in the way of a good story.
In a league where the offense is assisted like it is today you need to teach your defense what is legal and what is not. The problem is with holding and PI enforcement is strictly a judgement call. The only way to know how each crew interprets the rule is to push the envelope and play based on your own interpretation of how the officials are calling it in that game. Your alternative is to get torched in the passing game. All judgement and smart football.
That is not the same as having 12 men in the huddle (a cut and dry penalty).
There's a big difference between a penalty that happens during a play which is subject to a ref's discretion and a penalty that happens pre-snap which is clearly laid out black-and-white in the rule book. All dead ball fouls should be 100% enforceable.
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