Had To find this Gem on Nfl, Cam best dual qb

SlickRick

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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... in-history

The disrespect to pretend like Russell Wilson was never in two back to back super bowls & winning one never happened, Wilson & I'm biased,is the best dual threat qb in the league over a guy who's 0-1 in super bowls, records in the reg season don't matter if you can't win the big game
 

rlkats

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Its funny how fans get bothered by what the media states. I doubt Wilson cares much. I bet Wilson is laughing at the whole thing saying "yup he is the best dual threat qb out there" as he is looking at his ring. Oh ya and Cam has NONE.
This article is funny or more so some people will get worked up about it. I think Cam has cemented himself as a selfish qb that cares about his image or whatever more than his team.
 

Popeyejones

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1. The article doesn't say Cam is the best dual threat QB of all time.

2. Cam just put up 35 passing TDs and 10 rushing TDs, the best season every put up by a dual threat QB.

3. This article was written in the lead up to the Super Bowl. If you were expecting articles leading up to the Super Bowl to be about players that aren't playing in the Super Bowl I don't know what to tell you.

This, to me, seriously reads like desperate flailing around for things to be offended about.
 

bigtrain21

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So touchdowns determine the best season for a dual threat qb Popeye? Come on now.
 

Popeyejones

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bigtrain21":1lftj995 said:
So touchdowns determine the best season for a dual threat qb Popeye? Come on now.

:lol:

Sure. Steve Young put up the best season ever by a dual threat QB, and it isn't even remotely close when you consider the era he was playing in. Doesn't really change anything, and it's what the article concludes (despite the mislabeled title of this thread).
 

Smellyman

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I wrote a lot then erased it.

Basically RW is a better passer and a much more creative eluseive runner. Cam is a big phyical runner and not as good of a passer than RW.

RW is the best playmaker I have seen from the qb position ever.
 

bigtrain21

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Popeyejones":2vz58761 said:
bigtrain21":2vz58761 said:
So touchdowns determine the best season for a dual threat qb Popeye? Come on now.

:lol:

Sure. Steve Young put up the best season ever by a dual threat QB, and it isn't even remotely close when you consider the era he was playing in. Doesn't really change anything, and it's what the article concludes (despite the mislabeled title of this thread).

Cam had 45 touchdowns this year which is your criteria for judging a dual threat QB. Steve Young never got did that.

Uploadfromtaptalk1454946742471
 

Popeyejones

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bigtrain21":1dy91ccv said:
Popeyejones":1dy91ccv said:
bigtrain21":1dy91ccv said:
So touchdowns determine the best season for a dual threat qb Popeye? Come on now.

:lol:

Sure. Steve Young put up the best season ever by a dual threat QB, and it isn't even remotely close when you consider the era he was playing in. Doesn't really change anything, and it's what the article concludes (despite the mislabeled title of this thread).

Cam had 45 touchdowns this year which is your criteria for judging a dual threat QB. Steve Young never got did that.

...

I seriously don't understand what point you're making.

If it's TDs that matter why are you asking me to compare a QB with 45 combined TDs versus a QB with 35 combined TDs?

If it's not TDs that matter then use another metric and the answer is Steve Young, as the article concludes.

And either way, none of this changes anything.

Same story to you: If you can't handle that in the lead up to the Super Bowl there are complimentary articles about the players that have had really amazing seasons and are playing in the Super Bowl I simply don't know what to tell you.
 

bigtrain21

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Popeyejones":35f98rbs said:
2. Cam just put up 35 passing TDs and 10 rushing TDs, the best season every put up by a dual threat QB.

Popeye. You said this so I am calling you on it. It was a silly thing to say.
 

Popeyejones

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bigtrain21":1n46hpev said:
Popeyejones":1n46hpev said:
2. Cam just put up 35 passing TDs and 10 rushing TDs, the best season every put up by a dual threat QB.

Popeye. You said this so I am calling you on it. It was a silly thing to say.

And I already responded to it multiple posts ago and said I'm fine with concluding as the article does and saying Steve Young is the gold standard. And as I'll say for the third time, it still doesn't change anything.

If it's getting you worked up by all means treat the "best" of my first post as "exceptional" instead.
 

bigtrain21

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Popeyejones":2jcq95n6 said:
Same story to you: If you can't handle that in the lead up to the Super Bowl there are complimentary articles about the players that have had really amazing seasons and are playing in the Super Bowl I simply don't know what to tell you.


Did I ever say anything like that? I simply took issue with you saying he had the best season ever for dual threat qb. You later went with Steve Young so you switched your criteria to stats that make more sense.
 

bigtrain21

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Popeyejones":2hkudyzb said:
bigtrain21":2hkudyzb said:
Popeyejones":2hkudyzb said:
2. Cam just put up 35 passing TDs and 10 rushing TDs, the best season every put up by a dual threat QB.

Popeye. You said this so I am calling you on it. It was a silly thing to say.

And I already responded to it multiple posts ago and said I'm fine with concluding as the article does and saying Steve Young is the gold standard. And as I'll say for the third time, it still doesn't change anything.

If it's getting you worked up by all means treat the "best" of my first post as "exceptional" instead.

You said best. I responded to that. I called you on it since you only used TD's as your criteria. You then change the original criteria to be exceptional which is something everyone would agree on.

You seem to just want to argue. All I did was point out that your criteria of using total td's to determine best dual threat qb's seemed flawed. You changed the criteria which is all I was asking you to do.
 

HawkAroundTheClock

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TLDR: At QB, I'll take the TRIPLE-threat guy who can pass, run, and LEAD his teammates with composure.

Seems like a thorough conversation on the topic, with a logical focus on the guy who just played in the big game. Ultimately, championships do matter most, but the angle of the write-up is best dual-threat seasons. And although the headline asks the question of best ever, the story concludes that Newton has to be able to replicate his success before earning that title.

I don't see any disrespect toward Wilson. He is included in the list of all-time bests with Steve Young, Randall Cunningham, et al., and gets props like, "Tarkenton, Russell Wilson and Roger Staubach offered more creativity and elusiveness as scramblers."

But I agree that Wilson's overall greatness is somewhat glossed over with statements like, "While other dual-threat quarterbacks have run for more yards or posted a higher passer rating in a single season..."

How about MUCH higher passer rating over SEVERAL years?

RW = 101.8 rating
CN = 88.3 rating

Newton just had his only season with a rating over 90. In his FIFTH year.
Wilson has not had a season below 95, and only one of his four seasons was below 100.

Other career passing stats
RW = 8.05 Y/A, 6.1 TD%, 51.25 passes 20+ yards (per season), 9.5 of 40+, 41 sacks/ssn, 5.99 Y/sack
CN = 7.55 Y/A, 4.8 TD%, 48.8 passes 20+ yards (per season), 8.2 of 40+, 37 sacks/ssn, 7.7 Y/sack

There are tons of other stats and analyses, but these basic raw stats show RW ahead as a passer. He takes one extra sack every 4 games, but Newton loses 40 more yards on sacks over the season.

Passing and Rushing combined
RW = 118 total TDs, 47 total TOs. (4 years) Per season: 29.5 TDs, 12.25 TOs
CN = 160 TDs, 78 total TOs. (5 years ) Per season: 32 TDs, 15.6 TOs

So the guy getting "best ever" consideration accounts for 2 more scores per year and 3 more turnovers.

Career rushing stats
RW = 38 Y/G, 34.25 1st downs/season, 33% 1st%, 3 TD/ssn
CN = 41 Y/G, 49.2 1st downs/season, 41% 1st%, 8.6 TD/ssn

The significant difference is 1st downs and TDs on the ground. The stats back up the general narrative that Newton is the game's top running threat at QB and a good-to-very-good passer. Wilson is an elite passer who uses the run to extend plays and drives, but is not a top red zone threat on the ground. That's where Newton earns his rep as a dangerous, unique weapon.

I have no problem putting Newton atop the dual-threat list amongst active players. He is in fact the biggest QB with that kind of quickness and running ability. Nobody matches his physical traits.

But as far as important qualities for a QB, I would be looking for the best TRIPLE-threat guy, with Composure/Leadership as the third aspect. In that department Wilson is leaps and bounds ahead. Both guys believe they are great and meant for great things, and capable of accomplishing great things. The difference is how they get there.

Wilson has had to – and continues to have to – earn every accolade and opportunity through mental toughness, perseverance, preparation, and consistency. In a team game, these traits are relatable and transferable, even teachable to teammates.

Surely Newton works hard and is a good teammate in his way. The difference is he has relied on his physical stature and a major, if not central, aspect of his game is emotional truth. When he's happy he bounces around, when he's sad he sulks. He doesn't hide his heart.

There's a consistency in that the feelings are true to the moment. The problem is moments change and an expressive celebration does not necessarily balance out an equally outward display of discouragement. The passion can inspire teammates, but you can't teach someone else to feel how you feel; there's no technique to share. The reactive nature is a double-edged sword. The smiles and dances are contagious, so too is the insularity in the face of adversity.

As long as there is a common goal, or common enemy, that can work. But when the chips are down, is an emotional leader sufficient? The answer depends on the surrounding players and coaches, the general culture of the locker room and organization, personal support networks, and even the relationship with the fans to a limited extent.

At the core of the complex structure is the QB. Passion is important for that position. Without a level head, without the ability to handle bumpy roads with a steely resolve, without a history of managing difficult situations with forward-thinking intent and a team-first mentality, passion is often not enough.
 

lobohawk

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bigtrain21":1gqhwpm2 said:
Popeyejones":1gqhwpm2 said:
bigtrain21":1gqhwpm2 said:
So touchdowns determine the best season for a dual threat qb Popeye? Come on now.

:lol:

Sure. Steve Young put up the best season ever by a dual threat QB, and it isn't even remotely close when you consider the era he was playing in. Doesn't really change anything, and it's what the article concludes (despite the mislabeled title of this thread).

Cam had 45 touchdowns this year which is your criteria for judging a dual threat QB. Steve Young never got did that.



Cam's value is on the short yardage and red zone situations because of his size and speed.. There's no denying he's the most dangerous in those situations. That's how he got all those rushing TDs (added to the creative running game plan). His passing takes a hit, because of his well known inconsistency. It'll be interesting how the league responds to his running game. The NFL has a history of taking apart offenses, once they have time. Wade Phillips did it with his two week window and I'm sure Quinn has it zeroed in.
 

kearly

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"Dual threat" is ridiculously open to interpretation. You have Kordell Stewart and Steve Young on the same list, but they couldn't be any different as QBs. If Young can make the list with only 58 rush attempts, then why not Aaron Rodgers? Rodgers has had 58 or more rush attempts 4 times. Rodgers' 2009 season in particular would make sense on this list.

I think it is fair to say that Cam is the greatest "Running QB" of all time. By that, I mean a QB in the mold of Vick, Tebow or Kaepernick who treats the run like a 2nd read. But if I am an NFL QB, I don't think that's a mantle I would want to wear.

My only takeaway from the article is how kickass it is that Russell Wilson's 2015 stat line looks an awful lot like career year Steve Young.
 

sc85sis

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What I found interesting in comparing Russ' and Cam's stats is that Russell lost fewer yards in sacks despite being sacked a lot more. That tells me he's getting smarter about just tucking the ball or throwing it away when a sack is inevitable.
 

Smellyman

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Cam is 6'5 and 250, he is a lot more rushing TD's and first downs because they qb sneak him a lot. Just as easily had to Stewart for the TD. RW almost never does. Cam doesn't have near the elusiveness of RW.

If you played every RW run and every Cam run, 90% of people would say RW is the better runner.
 

Hawks46

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bigtrain21":156prj5k said:
So touchdowns determine the best season for a dual threat qb Popeye? Come on now.

What other metric would you use ?

If you're going to pass or throw, TD's is the ultimate goal.

The article goes on to state that they feel Newton is more of a dual threat because his runs are intentional, whereas Wilson, and Young (the two others they mentioned as being great) run more off of scrambling and improvisation. Which technically isn't true of Wilson who does run the read option and does have intentional runs.

I get what the author is saying. I don't think it's correct though. If a guy runs, whether intentional or not, and garners 7 rushing TD's and 800 yards (which was Wilson's best year on the ground, and omitted from the graphic) it's still a threat, and it still hurts the defense and helps the offense.
 

NINEster

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kearly":15mspj9v said:
"Dual threat" is ridiculously open to interpretation. You have Kordell Stewart and Steve Young on the same list, but they couldn't be any different as QBs. If Young can make the list with only 58 rush attempts, then why not Aaron Rodgers? Rodgers has had 58 or more rush attempts 4 times. Rodgers' 2009 season in particular would make sense on this list.

I think it is fair to say that Cam is the greatest "Running QB" of all time. By that, I mean a QB in the mold of Vick, Tebow or Kaepernick who treats the run like a 2nd read. But if I am an NFL QB, I don't think that's a mantle I would want to wear.

My only takeaway from the article is how kickass it is that Russell Wilson's 2015 stat line looks an awful lot like career year Steve Young.

How do you exclude Wilson from the "Running QB" list above when he lead all QBs in rushing last year?

His rush attempts were more than Kap probably in 2013 too.

Wilson has plenty of run "reads", and his Tarkenton style of play puts him as a running QB much more than a late career Steve Young.

So go ahead and call Wilson the "greatest running QB" of all time. :th2thumbs:
 
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