Norv Turner Resigns From Minnesota. Seattle Should Pay Attn.

LegendKiller · Nov 2, 2016

Norv Turner "Resigned" as OC of the Minnesota Vikings after only 2 losses in which their offense played poorly. Seattle should pay attention to this. There are many here that claim "oh we will be fine", "relax we are 4-2-1" but championship caliber teams don't settle for mediocrity and hold themselves to the highest of standard. There are also those who state "well we sucked up until 2012 for the longest time, so we should be grateful and enjoy the ride.... blah blah blah." That was then, this is now. If you want to win championships you have to hold people accountable or you will never progress as a TEAM. The reason our defense is so good is because they hold themselves to the highest standard. Apparently the offense does not. What are your thoughts on this? Do you think this sets a precedent for Seattle to follow if we have one more abysmal offensive game?

theENGLISHseahawk · Nov 2, 2016

Siouxhawk · Nov 2, 2016

Hasselbeck · Nov 2, 2016

I really want to know what amazing play caller we have waiting in the wings that will just flip a magic switch and correct all the offensive woes.

HawkFan72 · Nov 2, 2016

Hasselbeck":2lxbpdgf said:
I really want to know what amazing play caller we have waiting in the wings that will just flip a magic switch and correct all the offensive woes.

Seriously. Would people rather Tom Cable call all the plays? Cause that's what we would get.

OkieHawk · Nov 2, 2016

HawkFan72":18hajnf3 said:
Hasselbeck":18hajnf3 said:

I really want to know what amazing play caller we have waiting in the wings that will just flip a magic switch and correct all the offensive woes.

Click to expand...

Seriously. Would people rather Tom Cable call all the plays? Cause that's what we would get.

Why would it have to be Cable? I'm curious to see if we play Monday like we did against NO if people will still think everything is peachy.

Schematically we aren't adapting, and this isn't a new problem it's just been masked by the usually uninjured players balling out.

rlkats · Nov 2, 2016

Hahaha. Oh my oh my. I remember when the Niners were winning people were saying we need to fire Roman. Yes there were games they lost. But there were a ton of games won. Careful what you wish for. Fire Bevell you might end up hating it. Point is yes you lose a couple of games but your still in the drivers seat to win the West again and go to the playoffs. I'd do just about anything to switch places.

Here is a thought.

1. Fix that shitty o line
2. Get a true #1 receiver that the D fears.

The Hawks would be very tough to beat.

ludakrishna · Nov 2, 2016

HawkFan72":6l8s84jt said:
Hasselbeck":6l8s84jt said:

I really want to know what amazing play caller we have waiting in the wings that will just flip a magic switch and correct all the offensive woes.

Click to expand...

Seriously. Would people rather Tom Cable call all the plays? Cause that's what we would get.

If having Cable means more than 3 called run plays in the 1st half, sign me up :2thumbs:

OkieHawk · Nov 2, 2016

rlkats":bgx722ao said:
Hahaha. Oh my oh my. I remember when the Niners were winning people were saying we need to fire Roman. Yes there were games they lost. But there were a ton of games won. Careful what you wish for. Fire Bevell you might end up hating it. Point is yes you lose a couple of games but your still in the drivers seat to win the West again and go to the playoffs. I'd do just about anything to switch places.

Here is a thought.

1. Fix that shitty o line
2. Get a true #1 receiver that the D fears.

The Hawks would be very tough to beat.

The OL actually hasn't been as terrible as we've all been thinking. I posted some stats in another thread that opened my eyes a bit.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

We've actually shifted from a running OL to a pass protect line. We are 10th in pass pro and 27th in run blocking.

DTexHawk · Nov 2, 2016

Hasselbeck":3qyoa55s said:
I really want to know what amazing play caller we have waiting in the wings that will just flip a magic switch and correct all the offensive woes.

Well norv is available. :stirthepot:

CodeWarrior · Nov 2, 2016

OkieHawk":dnf0esl6 said:
rlkats":dnf0esl6 said:

Hahaha. Oh my oh my. I remember when the Niners were winning people were saying we need to fire Roman. Yes there were games they lost. But there were a ton of games won. Careful what you wish for. Fire Bevell you might end up hating it. Point is yes you lose a couple of games but your still in the drivers seat to win the West again and go to the playoffs. I'd do just about anything to switch places.

Here is a thought.

1. Fix that shitty o line
2. Get a true #1 receiver that the D fears.

The Hawks would be very tough to beat.

Click to expand...

The OL actually hasn't been as terrible as we've all been thinking. I posted some stats in another thread that opened my eyes a bit.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

We've actually shifted from a running OL to a pass protect line. We are 10th in pass pro and 27th in run blocking.

In regards to pass blocking those OL stats aren't worth a hill of beans. The entire pass blocking effectiveness methodology is based on adjusted sack rate. It all boils down to how often your QB is sacked relative to the number of drop backs. Does not account for hurries, pressures, lack of time, etc.

It is lazy analysis at best.

If anything those stats work to further condemn the OL. Just look at the running methodology used, which is actually quite good.

For a power running team, these are Seattle ranks:

Percentage of times our run plays are "stuffed," meaning the back is tackled at or behind the LOS: 24% of the time, good for second to last in the league against an average of 19%.

Percentage of power success, defined as the proportion of runs on third or fourth down, two yards or less to go, that achieved a first down or touchdown: 58%, good for 25th in the league against an average of 66%.

WilsonMVP · Nov 2, 2016

Turned on the TV and the headline was Norv Retires.....Great news of the day now just waiting for Bevell to get fired

On the OC list someone made a while ago I told them to put norv lower lol. Norv and Bevell both are stubborn and dont seem to see that they need to help their pathetic OL. Nope OL is just fine lets have them 1 v 1 all the time with no help..what could possibly go wrong. Lets also call runs up the gut and long developing passing plays, im sure that will help a bad OL :lol:

bmorepunk · Nov 2, 2016

Zimmer said Turner surprised him by quitting. Are we to "take note" that Befell is going to quit?

OkieHawk · Nov 2, 2016

CodeWarrior":ld4l3kv7 said:
In regards to pass blocking those OL stats aren't worth a hill of beans. The entire pass blocking effectiveness methodology is based on adjusted sack rate. It all boils down to how often your QB is sacked relative to the number of drop backs. Does not account for hurries, pressures, lack of time, etc.

It is lazy analysis at best.

If anything those stats work to further condemn the OL. Just look at the running methodology used, which is actually quite good.

For a power running team, these are Seattle ranks:

Percentage of times our run plays are "stuffed," meaning the back is tackled at or behind the LOS: 24% of the time, good for second to last in the league against an average of 19%.

Percentage of power success, defined as the proportion of runs on third or fourth down, two yards or less to go, that achieved a first down or touchdown: 58%, good for 25th in the league against an average of 66%.

So, you're happy with their analysis for run blocking, but think that their pass protection rankings are shit? Wow.

Also, this article goes further as to how they monitor pass protection. It's from 2003 but still the method they use AFAIK.

Hawk-Lock · Nov 2, 2016

No one here can put the correlation together that bad QB play + poor Oline = bad offense. Has little to do with the O-Coordinator.

Weird that Bevell had a top 5 offense last year and all of a sudden doesn't know how to play call.

Weird that Norv had one of the best offenses in the league with SD, now all of a sudden he forgot how to play call.

Weird....

CodeWarrior · Nov 2, 2016

OkieHawk":1txxgzqc said:
So, you're happy with their analysis for run blocking, but think that their pass protection rankings are shit? Wow.

Also, this article goes further as to how they monitor pass protection. It's from 2003 but still the method they use AFAIK.

Why is that surprising? They apply completely different methodologies. The only commonality is that the same organization authored them and that doesn't mean anything. The run blocking analysis has at least some nuance, the pass blocking is ham handed.

I read that second article as well. The author ends it by effectively saying that if anyone has a better way to evaluate pass blocking to please contact him.

Uncle Si · Nov 2, 2016

Hawk-Lock":377shnw3 said:
No one here can put the correlation together that bad QB play + poor Oline = bad offense. Has little to do with the O-Coordinator.

Weird that Bevell had a top 5 offense last year and all of a sudden doesn't know how to play call.

Weird that Norv had one of the best offenses in the league with SD, now all of a sudden he forgot how to play call.

Weird....

I think most people want to see adjustments. That's the OCs job. Now, will those adjustments matter in the end is another story.

DavidSeven · Nov 2, 2016

Norv left voluntarily because they have no offensive tackles and no running game. With Peterson and both starting tackles out indefinitely, there's really no hope for that offense. Norv probably didn't want to be the irrational fall-guy for their fanbase, like another successful OC (in the Northwest) who's dealing with the same problems that are out of his control.

Zimmer was taken by surprise and sad to see Norv leave.

OkieHawk · Nov 2, 2016

CodeWarrior":32m6fcyc said:
I read that second article as well. The author ends it by effectively saying that if anyone has a better way to evaluate pass blocking to please contact him.

And in 13 years no better method has been passed along...

Last year with a healthy Wilson we were leading the league in sacks. How is it this year with a hobbled Russ?

CodeWarrior · Nov 2, 2016

OkieHawk":26p7wrkq said:
CodeWarrior":26p7wrkq said:

I read that second article as well. The author ends it by effectively saying that if anyone has a better way to evaluate pass blocking to please contact him.

Click to expand...

And in 13 years no better method has been passed along...

Last year with a healthy Wilson we were leading the league in sacks. How is it this year with a hobbled Russ?

Of course there's a better metric for measuring pass blocking performance, the author just doesn't want to do it. A reasonable pass blocking metric of evaluation would have to include time until pressure, percent of pressures (and sacks) per dropback, percentage of dropbacks in which an unchecked rusher was allowed, pocket size (width/depth, effectively how much space the QB has to operate) per dropback, and percentage of passess batted due to rusher penetration/lane clogging. It would be a complicated metric but attempting to prop up adjusted sack rate as the lone evaluative factor is essentially worthless.

To answer your question: the offense is playing poorly so far this year as well. Fewer sacks or not this offense doesn't scare anyone. Or if you think it does I'd be interested to hear where you think this offense shows potency.

Norv Turner Resigns From Minnesota. Seattle Should Pay Attn.

New member

Active member

New member

New member

Active member

New member

Active member

Active member

New member

New member

New member

New member

Well-known member

New member

Well-known member

New member

Active member

New member

New member

New member

Similar threads