Lang visited (UPDATE: signs with Lions)

Discuss any and all NFL-related topics and matters of interest here. LANGUAGE RATING: PG-13
  • Attyla the Hawk wrote:
    It looks like it would have not just been the 1.5m extra. The guarantees that Detroit added were extremely high. That's looking like a locked in 3 year deal..


    We guaranteed Joeckel 7.25M, and he sucks. So why wouldn't we bump Lang's guarantee 1.5M, even for a 2nd or 3rd year?

    You're right, these are not mutually exclusive, but the math/guarantee amounts are. We overpaid for a terrible lineman and wouldn't overpay for a good one?

    What sense does that make? If our FO wants us to think they're consistent in not wanting to overpay for Lang, then why overpay for a far worse lineman?

    I understand not wanting to overpay for Lang guaranteeing future cap space, but this is all risky...........so I'd rather overpay and take a risk on a pro bowl proven guard for 2-3 years than a bust that stinks for one year. Isn't that what we've been doing with horrible success on guys like Webb and Joeckel?
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  • Maybe they don't share your assertions on Joeckel?

    You illogically assume they didn't go up 1.5 mill because of Joeckel. Perhaps they had a number for Lang and that was that
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  • You do have to wonder if Lang was so amazing - why didn't Green Bay match Detroit's offer? Didn't he say he would give them a chance to match?
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  • iigakusei wrote:You do have to wonder if Lang was so amazing - why didn't Green Bay match Detroit's offer? Didn't he say he would give them a chance to match?


    They have a very good oline to begin with, and their spending was in the mid $20M + for the oline before re-signing Lang. They likely have a structure with position group spending that they were attempting to stay within.
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  • Seymour wrote: trying.


    So we should be happy that Carry Williams and Webb type signings are taking place because they are trying?

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  • Josea16 wrote: This is a playoff team that actually wins games away from home so sit down, relax and understand when your team is actually the bad boy


    OMG. Now I know what i'm dealing with here. Winning games on the road is not the teams MO. Actually its the opposite. Please defend your post and tell me how the Seahawks are so good at winning away playoff games. Lol. Theres no facepalm big enough for your statement.

    Excuse me moderators but it's past time for a little education. If they don't care to, I do care to stop your ridiculous bullshit. Convince me straight up I'm wrong and you are right. Waiting all day/night. Unless you figure we have the number one pick and multiple other 1st round picks like that trainwreck called Cleveland?


    I'm not sure what your going on about to be honest or what your asking, but please do prove to me how the Seahawks are some away playoff juggernaut as you claim. The ball is clearly in your court. I'll be waiting.

    We're pretty good with picks where it's important.


    I guess the Oline positions are deemed unworthy of any consideration then.

    And come on don't all of you hate how boring the AFC is since 2001? Hint for you I live in deep red AFC country and the fans of this crap conference are beyond tired of the status quo hence I'm glad some teams beyond Seattle are starting to get serious about beating New England and Tom Brady like a drum. As they deserve like Denver. Give me someone beyond Baltimore, Denver, Pittsburgh and New England for god sake.


    I live 20 minutes away from Pittsburgh so i'm well aware of the Patriot envy. Also who is getting serious about beating the Patriots like a drum? Tom Brady wanted to know as he was picking up yet another SB ring. (his 2nd in the past 3 years)

    You want to know who has been aggressive in FA? The Patriots. Want to know who hasent done jack in FA? Well, you get the picture now.
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  • Largent80 wrote:
    ChickenLittle72 wrote:
    ChickenLittle12 wrote:what gets me are the posters here saying the o line is bound to improve with another year under their belt???? maybe joeckel adds something but the holes and horrible players are still there. like i said this is the year wilson goes down for the season...


    Its baffling isn't it?


    I teach Drums and guitar to people of all ages, and it is abundantly clear that practice makes for a much better player.

    I also played football all the way through college and the same applies.

    It has also been proven that rookies struggle in the NFL and we had 3 on the line last year, and one moved to a new position. If you can't see and understand these things then why even waste your time watching or typing?


    I'm a drummer too (I kid you not) as well as my son. All I can say about the teaching aspect is dont you love the kids that come in and you know no matter how much they practice they just dont have it and are never going to get it? Thats how I feel about our Oline right now.

    I realize rookies struggle but our line is so bad (historically bad) that the left tackle who is protecting our franchise QB's blindside was a basketball player that never played the position before. How long do you wait for that to become serviceable?
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:My only complaint about how our FO handled the Lang deal is why did they rush and sign Joeckel for 8M when Lang should have been priority #1.

    From what Clayton said we could have thrown another 1.5M at Lang and probably got him. If that's true, then why the hell spend 8M on Joeckel when you could have used some of that money to get a much better lineman in Lang?


    Exactly
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  • nash72 wrote:
    Cyrus12 wrote:what gets me are the posters here saying the o line is bound to improve with another year under their belt???? maybe joeckel adds something but the holes and horrible players are still there. like i said this is the year wilson goes down for the season...


    Its baffling isn't it?

    No, what's "Baffling", is that you and a couple others have "Tapped Out"........Misery Loves Company, and your NON-EXPERT OPINIONS are proof of NOTHING.
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  • scutterhawk wrote:
    nash72 wrote:
    Cyrus12 wrote:what gets me are the posters here saying the o line is bound to improve with another year under their belt???? maybe joeckel adds something but the holes and horrible players are still there. like i said this is the year wilson goes down for the season...


    Its baffling isn't it?

    No, what's "Baffling", is that you and a couple others have "Tapped Out"........Misery Loves Company, and your NON-EXPERT OPINIONS are proof of NOTHING.


    Tapped Out is to strong a term. Disappointed with the FO and coaching while being realistic is a better way of saying it.

    If the team signs Peterson, then you'll really see my lid flipped.
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  • Uncle Si wrote:Maybe they don't share your assertions on Joeckel?

    You illogically assume they didn't go up 1.5 mill because of Joeckel. Perhaps they had a number for Lang and that was that


    Then I'm even more annoyed that our FO thinks the market for Luke Freaking Joeckel was 8.5M, yet we weren't willing to entertain going over the Lang number by 1.5M in guarantees.
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  • I would be surprised if AP or any free agent RB was an alternative to Oline
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:Maybe they don't share your assertions on Joeckel?

    You illogically assume they didn't go up 1.5 mill because of Joeckel. Perhaps they had a number for Lang and that was that


    Then I'm even more annoyed that our FO thinks the market for Luke Freaking Joeckel was 8.5M, yet we weren't willing to entertain going over the Lang number by 1.5M in guarantees.


    Of course you are....

    Why not let all this play out first? Pretty good chance Joeckel and Lang are just a couple of a handful of names
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:Maybe they don't share your assertions on Joeckel?

    You illogically assume they didn't go up 1.5 mill because of Joeckel. Perhaps they had a number for Lang and that was that


    Then I'm even more annoyed that our FO thinks the market for Luke Freaking Joeckel was 8.5M, yet we weren't willing to entertain going over the Lang number by 1.5M in guarantees.


    From what I read, Joeckels FA market value estimates were between 1.8 and 3.5 million per season. Obviously due to injury and performance issues. So yes, it would seem we may have over payed by a buttload.
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  • Pandion Haliaetus wrote:
    Cyrus12 wrote:what gets me are the posters here saying the o line is bound to improve with another year under their belt???? maybe joeckel adds something but the holes and horrible players are still there. like i said this is the year wilson goes down for the season...


    Right, because returning 7 of your 8 linemen doesn't do anything, I mean chemistry isn't important on the Oline.

    Because experience and development mean jack squat, it's not like:

    Seahawks started a rookie college TE/ex basketball player at LT.

    It's not like their 2nd year LG was a first time starter who had growing pains moving from his more natural side.

    Or their 3rd year OC was an expert snapper who by all means was thrusted into a leadership role.

    Or their rookie RG was a natural at the position.

    Or their 3rd year RT was a converted TE that regressed likely because of playing next to a rookie that spent his entire off-season training to be the LT, only to lose valuable TC time because of a knee scope, where he was forced back to RT because Jemarcus Webb was horrible both physically and mentally.

    It's not like the 3 other linemen weren't made up of 1yr, 1m free agent or 2 rookies.

    I mean damn 4 rookies made half the group they ended the season with. Only 1 player of that 8 had more than 3 years of experience.

    It's not like a young, very inexperience offensive line with little chemistry together didn't have to block for an immobile Russell Wilson, 2 oft-injured RBs, 1 a 2nd year player coming off a broken leg, the other a rookie who was more of a specialist than a workhorse forced to carry the load because the other 2 RBs on roster, was a blockhead who didn't run the right plays and tripped over his own feet when he had big holes and another rookie trying find his game in this system.

    I mean damn, we should just give up now because experience doesnt matter, growth doesnt matter, development doesnt matter, chemistry doesnt matter, nor does the concepts of a healthier QB whose bread and butter is being elusive as all hell and adding at least 489 yards of rushing offense.

    Nor does healthier RBs, who in their own right had to build their own chemistry and feel for their Olines.

    That's not going to improve. Shit because players don't ever develop, they never improve, they don't learn from experience or build any familarity or chemistry together.

    I guess it's time to throw in the towel, I won't watch the the Seahawks this season because there's no reason to.

    The team sucks. The team cant learn or develop or build chemistry. I mean who would have thought this team won 10 games last season for as much as they are incapable of doing nothing to improve. Everything is going to be the same. Same injuries. Same performance. Same schedule. Same struggles. Same regressions. Same distractions. Because this team isn't human, they are robots set to their specifications, with out the program to transcend and learn from their mistakes.

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  • Uncle Si wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:Maybe they don't share your assertions on Joeckel?

    You illogically assume they didn't go up 1.5 mill because of Joeckel. Perhaps they had a number for Lang and that was that


    Then I'm even more annoyed that our FO thinks the market for Luke Freaking Joeckel was 8.5M, yet we weren't willing to entertain going over the Lang number by 1.5M in guarantees.


    Of course you are....

    Why not let all this play out first? Pretty good chance Joeckel and Lang are just a couple of a handful of names


    Cause I'm a fan, and that's what fans do on a sports team forum..............discuss our opinions.

    If we had to wait until things played out, then shut the forum down until September.
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  • Must be the full moon

    If you want to take the post literally then so be it. But you knew what I meant. Lots of nail biting conclusions being assumed
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  • ..................... the lions had more powder.
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  • Jville wrote:

    ..................... the lions had more powder.


    Same offer by all accounts.. just IN Detroit

    (let that sink in for a moment)
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  • nash72 wrote:
    Largent80 wrote:
    ChickenLittle72 wrote:
    ChickenLittle12 wrote:what gets me are the posters here saying the o line is bound to improve with another year under their belt???? maybe joeckel adds something but the holes and horrible players are still there. like i said this is the year wilson goes down for the season...


    Its baffling isn't it?


    I teach Drums and guitar to people of all ages, and it is abundantly clear that practice makes for a much better player.

    I also played football all the way through college and the same applies.

    It has also been proven that rookies struggle in the NFL and we had 3 on the line last year, and one moved to a new position. If you can't see and understand these things then why even waste your time watching or typing?


    I'm a drummer too (I kid you not) as well as my son. All I can say about the teaching aspect is dont you love the kids that come in and you know no matter how much they practice they just dont have it and are never going to get it? Thats how I feel about our Oline right now.

    I realize rookies struggle but our line is so bad (historically bad) that the left tackle who is protecting our franchise QB's blindside was a basketball player that never played the position before. How long do you wait for that to become serviceable?

    Hmmm, so you consider that because you teach drums, you are now an expert evaluator on NFL level O-Linemen?
    Considering the tenacious Defenses that our Rooks faced in playing the Rams & Cards alone, Fant showed a big improvement as the Season wound down....Continuity & Cohesiveness plays into evaluating Growth.
    I became a Journeyman in FOUR different fields, and an expert in all of them, BUT, Physically and Mentally, I had to put in the time and hard work to get there.
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  • I would say this in the difference in Joeckel and Lang, Cable has his input on what he thinks is value and what the player can bring, John and Pete run with that.
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  • Uncle Si wrote:
    Jville wrote:

    ..................... the lions had more powder.


    Same offer by all accounts.. just IN Detroit

    (let that sink in for a moment)


    That is not what I am reading ....

    So ...... Lang took his Saturday offer from Seattle to Detroit and the lions countered with a $1.5M/year bump on Sunday ...... thus more powder.
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  • nash72 wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote:
    nash72 wrote:
    Cyrus12 wrote:what gets me are the posters here saying the o line is bound to improve with another year under their belt???? maybe joeckel adds something but the holes and horrible players are still there. like i said this is the year wilson goes down for the season...


    Its baffling isn't it?

    No, what's "Baffling", is that you and a couple others have "Tapped Out"........Misery Loves Company, and your NON-EXPERT OPINIONS are proof of NOTHING.


    Tapped Out is to strong a term. Disappointed with the FO and coaching while being realistic is a better way of saying it.

    If the team signs Peterson, then you'll really see my lid flipped.


    You're pitting your non-expert assessments of player evaluations against the Seahawks brain trust?...Sorry, but I ain't in your corner.
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  • Jville wrote:
    That is not what I am reading ....

    So ...... Lang took his Saturday offer from Seattle to Detroit and the lions countered with a $1.5M/year bump on Sunday ...... thus more powder.


    "powder?".. is that what the cool kids are saying these days?


    Contradicts a bit what Clayton said and was quoted on here...or maybe it was just interpreted differently. Either way, Seattle did not go up the 1.5 million, even though they could have.

    be interesting to see where they do spend that money
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  • Sorry ..... it was used more like in the old days. Powder as in gun powder ...... for a bidding war ...... as in the lions were willing to burn thru more cap room ..... i.e. powder to win a bidding war.
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  • Jville wrote:Sorry ..... it was used more like in the old days. Powder as in gun powder ...... for a bidding war ...... as in the lions were willing to burn thru more cap room ..... i.e. powder to win a bidding war.


    I like it. Never heard that before.
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  • So sounds like our offer was actually the same as they paid Joeckel?

    I absolutely do not get this.

    http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/seahawks/t-j-lang-says-he-was-99-percent-sure-he-was-signing-with-seattle-before-lions-upped-offer-on-sunday/

    Lang told a Detroit radio station Monday that he was “99 percent sure” he was signing with the Seahawks after leaving a visit with Seattle on Saturday but that the Lions then countered with the offer that he quickly accepted on Sunday morning.

    And according to ESPN’s John Clayton there was a significant difference in those offers — Clayton reported that Seattle’s offer stopped at $8 million per year while Lang ended up getting $9.5 million per year from the Lions ($28.5 million over three years with $19 million guaranteed).
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  • T.J. Lang’s three-year, $28.5 million deal with Detroit closed out the main group of the offensive-line market. That $9.5 million average was $1.5 million more per year than what Seattle would have paid him.


    Source >>> http://sports.mynorthwest.com/250365/clayton-thoughts-on-joeckel-lang-shead-and-the-seahawks-as-the-first-wave-of-free-agency-winds-down/

    ALLEN PARK -- When T.J. Lang boarded his plane home from a free-agent visit with Seattle, he thought that was it. He was going to be a Seahawk.

    "At the time, Seattle actually had the best offer," he said Monday while in studio with 97.1 FM, "and I didn't know Detroit was coming back with the counteroffer."

    Oh, Bob Quinn came back all right.

    The second-year Lions GM raised the Seahawks a three-year, $28.5 million deal that included a reported $19 million in guarantees. At $9.5 million annually, it would make Lang the fourth-highest paid right guard overall.

    In other words, Quinn gave Lang an offer he couldn't refuse.

    "When I left Seattle, I was about 99.9 percent sure I was flying back there to sign a contract," Lang said in the interview. "And Detroit stepped up, and things changed pretty quick."


    T.J. Lang was 99.9 percent sure he'd sign with Seattle, until Detroit countered >>> http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2017/03/tj_lang_was_999_percent_sure_h.html
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  • Jville wrote:
    T.J. Lang’s three-year, $28.5 million deal with Detroit closed out the main group of the offensive-line market. That $9.5 million average was $1.5 million more per year than what Seattle would have paid him.


    Source >>> http://sports.mynorthwest.com/250365/clayton-thoughts-on-joeckel-lang-shead-and-the-seahawks-as-the-first-wave-of-free-agency-winds-down/

    ALLEN PARK -- When T.J. Lang boarded his plane home from a free-agent visit with Seattle, he thought that was it. He was going to be a Seahawk.

    "At the time, Seattle actually had the best offer," he said Monday while in studio with 97.1 FM, "and I didn't know Detroit was coming back with the counteroffer."

    Oh, Bob Quinn came back all right.

    The second-year Lions GM raised the Seahawks a three-year, $28.5 million deal that included a reported $19 million in guarantees. At $9.5 million annually, it would make Lang the fourth-highest paid right guard overall.

    In other words, Quinn gave Lang an offer he couldn't refuse.

    "When I left Seattle, I was about 99.9 percent sure I was flying back there to sign a contract," Lang said in the interview. "And Detroit stepped up, and things changed pretty quick."


    T.J. Lang was 99.9 percent sure he'd sign with Seattle, until Detroit countered >>> http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2017/03/tj_lang_was_999_percent_sure_h.html


    I agree with you here. The 1.5 mil was not all the deal...it was the 3 year deal that they probably did not counter. I would bet that the Seahawks did not get the full offer to counter too.
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  • scutterhawk wrote: Hmmm, so you consider that because you teach drums, you are now an expert evaluator on NFL level O-Linemen?
    Considering the tenacious Defenses that our Rooks faced in playing the Rams & Cards alone, Fant showed a big improvement as the Season wound down....Continuity & Cohesiveness plays into evaluating Growth.
    I became a Journeyman in FOUR different fields, and an expert in all of them, BUT, Physically and Mentally, I had to put in the time and hard work to get there.


    If your going to butt in on the conversation, at least bother to read and understand the context of the posts.

    That's great that your were a journeyman in different fields and became as you call, an expert, but how long did that take you? The window in the NFL is short and you need to win while you can. Wilson and company will either be dead or gone before those bums on that Oline become decent. How long do we wait for it to happen? The Oline is a priority and the FO is blowing it. They should be going all in on decent lineman right now and all they have done is lose out on Lang and overpay for another bum that's probably going to be out of the league this time next year.
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  • scutterhawk wrote:You're pitting your non-expert assessments of player evaluations against the Seahawks brain trust?...Sorry, but I ain't in your corner.


    If you followed the team for the last few years, you should be.
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  • nash72 wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote:You're pitting your non-expert assessments of player evaluations against the Seahawks brain trust?...Sorry, but I ain't in your corner.


    If you followed the team for the last few years, you should be.

    The last few years have included two NFC west championships, one NFC championship, a trip to the SB and at least the second round of the playoffs each time...yeah you'd do so much better :roll:
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  • Hawkfan77 wrote:
    nash72 wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote:You're pitting your non-expert assessments of player evaluations against the Seahawks brain trust?...Sorry, but I ain't in your corner.


    If you followed the team for the last few years, you should be.

    The last few years have included two NFC west championships, one NFC championship, a trip to the SB and at least the second round of the playoffs each time...yeah you'd do so much better :roll:


    And getting worse each year.
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  • If we were 1.5 mil away then that sucks. I know he would of helped the o-line and 1.5 mil is not much when you consider the type of lineman Lang is. However, did he give the Hawks a chance to match the Detroit offer?

    All I can hope for now is to sign another lineman in FA, not sure who at this point, and draft a couple guys to compete.
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  • The Lions are paying him 11.5 the first year.
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  • nash72 wrote:
    Hawkfan77 wrote:
    nash72 wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote:You're pitting your non-expert assessments of player evaluations against the Seahawks brain trust?...Sorry, but I ain't in your corner.


    If you followed the team for the last few years, you should be.

    The last few years have included two NFC west championships, one NFC championship, a trip to the SB and at least the second round of the playoffs each time...yeah you'd do so much better :roll:


    And getting worse each year.


    Getting to the divisional playoff round isn't cause for alarm just yet.
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  • Uncle Si wrote:Maybe they don't share your assertions on Joeckel?

    You illogically assume they didn't go up 1.5 mill because of Joeckel. Perhaps they had a number for Lang and that was that

    I figure that would be a reason among others that our armchair GM's on .Net have no clue about. Come on, how about you guys do me solid and do the Missouri thing? "Show Me" you're better then JS when it isn't fantasy football hour. They are in fact signing young veteran NFL OL guys on low risk contracts in the current OL FA market straight across the board because the guy they wanted used US as pure leverage to make the team he really wanted to be with pay seriously and with no out.
    Josea16
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  • nash72 wrote:
    Hawkfan77 wrote:
    nash72 wrote:
    scutterhawk wrote:You're pitting your non-expert assessments of player evaluations against the Seahawks brain trust?...Sorry, but I ain't in your corner.


    If you followed the team for the last few years, you should be.

    The last few years have included two NFC west championships, one NFC championship, a trip to the SB and at least the second round of the playoffs each time...yeah you'd do so much better :roll:


    And getting worse each year.

    At this point I am questioning if you actually were a fan in the Nash era or just trolling? The last 5 years are the only time in this franchise's entire history that it has made multiple playoff appearances with wins EVERY time each and every year. While being painfully young almost everywhere except in the ONE year the draft is loaded to change where we're getting old (defense).
    Josea16
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  • Blitzer88 wrote:If we were 1.5 mil away then that sucks. I know he would of helped the o-line and 1.5 mil is not much when you consider the type of lineman Lang is. However, did he give the Hawks a chance to match the Detroit offer?

    All I can hope for now is to sign another lineman in FA, not sure who at this point, and draft a couple guys to compete.

    Obviously not, we always have a hard number it's what makes our FO kick ass. They always go in with an actual plan. Dude was straight up, he wanted to stay in the Midwest and really wanted to be in Michigan. He made no bones about the fact that location was more important then pure money. Even with that Detroit (in Michigan) had to overpay because we made a seriously good offer that is very close to what Detroit offered and he isn't even a West Coast guy and was ready to sign. It's just what you have to do when a particular market goes insane fast. Basically have a number and never go above it IF said number understands current market prices.
    Josea16
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