Is Joe Thomas worth our 26?

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Is Joe Thomas worth our 26?
Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:03 am
  • I don't want to be that guy, that brings up the dead horse...but here I go...lol

    In my view given Cleveland seems to really value draft picks right now, would it be worth our number 1 to get Joe Thomas. My fear is that we will draft another Ifedi, that needs a year or so...not good...rather have a proven vet!
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Re: What is our first round worth at 26?
Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:06 am
  • SPOHAWK wrote:I don't want to be that guy, that brings up the dead horse...but here I go...lol

    In my view given Cleveland seems to really value draft picks right now, would it be worth our number 1 to get Joe Thomas. My fear is that we will draft another Ifedi, that needs a year or so...not good...rather have a proven vet!


    Its going to take more than our first to get Thomas.

    But, whatever the price ... it's worth it.

    Pipe dream, though.
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Re: Is Joe Thomas worth our 26?
Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:08 am
  • Throw in a Third/Fourth either this year or next. I just don't see getting a stud tackle at 26.
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Re: Is Joe Thomas worth our 26?
Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:09 am
  • Absolutely, he is the best tackle in the whole NFL. I would even give up graham for him along with the pick.
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Re: What is our first round worth at 26?
Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:11 am
  • If I had a nickel for every time someone brings up the fever dream of getting Joe Thomas, I'd be a rich man.
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Re: Is Joe Thomas worth our 26?
Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:39 am
  • So in this scenario lets say Seahawks trade Graham, #26 and #90 for Joe Thomas.

    You save $8m on Graham, but take a dead cap hit of $2m. Which you absolutely have to move Graham to get Thomas.



    The 32 year old Thomas costs $8.8m against the cap, if you want him to lower that, his new contract likely starts a cut above Russell Okung. I'd say 4 years, 58-60m is what it would cost.

    So jettisoning Graham for Thomas in this scenario you pretty much gave up 2 first rounders (the one given up for Graham) and a 3rd rounder.

    And you lose 2 choices in the top 100 in one of the deepest 2ndary drafts. Which if you paid attention to Mike Sando, the secondary was the one of the biggest culprits in losing games. Specifically, the amount of big plays given up plus lack of turnovers.

    We kind of need to re-eninforce that DB unit with top tier talent considering Earl, Kam, and Dick all are moving towards 30 years old and only a couple of years left on thier deals.
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Re: Is Joe Thomas worth our 26?
Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:42 am
  • That's a good post Pandion
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Re: Is Joe Thomas worth our 26?
Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:49 am
  • Pandion Haliaetus wrote:So in this scenario lets say Seahawks trade Graham, #26 and #90 for Joe Thomas.

    You save $8m on Graham, but take a dead cap hit of $2m. Which you absolutely have to move Graham to get Thomas.



    The 32 year old Thomas costs $8.8m against the cap, if you want him to lower that, his new contract likely starts a cut above Russell Okung. I'd say 4 years, 58-60m is what it would cost.

    So jettisoning Graham for Thomas in this scenario you pretty much gave up 2 first rounders (the one given up for Graham) and a 3rd rounder.

    And you lose 2 choices in the top 100 in one of the deepest 2ndary drafts. Which if you paid attention to Mike Sando, the secondary was the one of the biggest culprits in losing games. Specifically, the amount of big plays given up plus lack of turnovers.

    We kind of need to re-eninforce that DB unit with top tier talent considering Earl, Kam, and Dick all are moving towards 30 years old and only a couple of years left on thier deals.

    Secondary gave up big plays as a result of staying on the field too long. You cant expect the offense to go 3 and out almost the whole game and the secondary not to give up points, they will eventually give something up and that was the case the whole season. There was no run game and they couldnt move the ball downfield causing the secondary to play alot more than they had to almost every game.
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Re: Is Joe Thomas worth our 26?
Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:20 am
  • No, Joe Thomas is a rent a player near the end of his peak playing days. It would be asinine to give up our 26th in such a good draft for a guy that is so old.
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Re: Is Joe Thomas worth our 26?
Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:22 am
  • Joe Thomas will not come here, and neither will Tavaris.

    I will be glad when these two names drop off this forum forever.
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Re: Is Joe Thomas worth our 26?
Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:33 am
  • Why would the Browns trade Thomas when they just rebuilt their O-line around him?
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Re: Is Joe Thomas worth our 26?
Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:49 am
  • HawkFan72 wrote:Why would the Browns trade Thomas when they just rebuilt their O-line around him?


    You answered your own question.

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Re: Is Joe Thomas worth our 26?
Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:26 pm
  • Not this year. Too much talent in the draft, and we have some gaping holes on defense still (namely at corner)
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Re: Is Joe Thomas worth our 26?
Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:53 pm
  • RussB wrote:
    Pandion Haliaetus wrote:So in this scenario lets say Seahawks trade Graham, #26 and #90 for Joe Thomas.

    You save $8m on Graham, but take a dead cap hit of $2m. Which you absolutely have to move Graham to get Thomas.



    The 32 year old Thomas costs $8.8m against the cap, if you want him to lower that, his new contract likely starts a cut above Russell Okung. I'd say 4 years, 58-60m is what it would cost.

    So jettisoning Graham for Thomas in this scenario you pretty much gave up 2 first rounders (the one given up for Graham) and a 3rd rounder.

    And you lose 2 choices in the top 100 in one of the deepest 2ndary drafts. Which if you paid attention to Mike Sando, the secondary was the one of the biggest culprits in losing games. Specifically, the amount of big plays given up plus lack of turnovers.

    We kind of need to re-eninforce that DB unit with top tier talent considering Earl, Kam, and Dick all are moving towards 30 years old and only a couple of years left on thier deals.

    Secondary gave up big plays as a result of staying on the field too long. You cant expect the offense to go 3 and out almost the whole game and the secondary not to give up points, they will eventually give something up and that was the case the whole season. There was no run game and they couldnt move the ball downfield causing the secondary to play alot more than they had to almost every game.


    This is something I use to believe and an easy reasoning, however the offense's TOP has changed nominally since 2012. IMHO, our defense has suffered because the teams turnover differential has dropped off and allows opposing teams to take their time and chip at us.

    Our offense having such a poor TD to FG ratio in the redzone doesn't help either because it has allowed teams to stay in striking distance. Our defense is designed to avalanche teams. Cant do it without causing turnovers and scoring FGs.
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Re: Is Joe Thomas worth our 26?
Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:30 pm
  • Pipe dream maybe but with the xtra money next year from cutting Kearse I could see how we could make it work and get two more years to draft a young left tackle and get him ready for when Joe retires
    They might even take Jimmy and a !st which would let us go draft heavy on D again
    I'd do it , of course there's a lot of things I'd do that may not be good for me later :kool-aid:
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Re: What is our first round worth at 26?
Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:41 pm
  • MontanaHawk05 wrote:If I had a nickel for every time someone brings up the fever dream of getting Joe Thomas, I'd be a rich man.

    This. Last I heard the price started at 2 1st round picks. Good luck with that one.
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Re: Is Joe Thomas worth our 26?
Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:57 am
  • Pandion has this exactly right. Too much to give up for a player that will be 33 during the season and on the down slope of his career. If we were gonna pay out the nose for a renta-LT we should of signed Whitworth to the deal he got for no compensation. We all better get used to the idea that this OL is gonna be similar to last years and hope experience,continuity and better health will make our offense better than last years. As much as I would like to lay all the blame on them, the QB & RB's have to be healthier and play better this year regardless of what OL is out there.

    Our defense is what has always made this team great and it was far from it last year. This draft could go a long way in fixing the back end and preparing it from being held cap hostage in a couple years when the stars start to exit the roster. I personally hope this draft is defense early and often and hope they can get back to being the big play D they once were. If they don't, we could trade for Dallas' OL and we still won't be playin in the game next Feb.
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Re: Is Joe Thomas worth our 26?
Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:15 am
  • He'll be 33 this year. Giving up a first round draft pick for a guy that might play two or three more years seems imprudent. Especially considering the depth of this draft at positions of need like CB and LB.
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Re: Is Joe Thomas worth our 26?
Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:33 am
  • NO.

    The only browns Olinemen I want to trade for is shon coleman. Kearse and Collins can go and a 6th rd pick IDGAF.
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Re: What is our first round worth at 26?
Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:39 am
  • Josea16 wrote:
    MontanaHawk05 wrote:If I had a nickel for every time someone brings up the fever dream of getting Joe Thomas, I'd be a rich man.

    This. Last I heard the price started at 2 1st round picks. Good luck with that one.


    Last year the scuttle was a 2nd rounder. Just a single 2nd rounder. Idk where people are getting these huge asks.

    I don't know that he's even available anymore but the price isnt crazy if that still holds true and OTs aren't regular skill players, there abilities don't decline at the same rate, you'll see Joe go at least til 35-36 at top form and in that time you could find his replacement. There is little argument not to go after him if he were available at that price imo but if you get into the multiple picks talk then it's a little rich given our other needs.
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Re: What is our first round worth at 26?
Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:51 pm
  • flmmkrz wrote:
    Last year the scuttle was a 2nd rounder. Just a single 2nd rounder. Idk where people are getting these huge asks..


    Cleveland's dumb, but they weren't on Thomas's contract. It was front loaded, so no way in hell they part with one of the top 2-3 LT's in the entire league for a 2nd rounder who's only taking up 10-11M of cap space for the next two years.

    If that were true, every single team in the league except Dallas would be pulling hamstrings running at this deal.
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Re: What is our first round worth at 26?
Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:55 pm
  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    flmmkrz wrote:
    Last year the scuttle was a 2nd rounder. Just a single 2nd rounder. Idk where people are getting these huge asks..


    Cleveland's dumb, but they weren't on Thomas's contract. It was front loaded, so no way in hell they part with one of the top 2-3 LT's in the entire league for a 2nd rounder who's only taking up 10-11M of cap space for the next two years.

    If that were true, every single team in the league except Dallas would be pulling hamstrings running at this deal.


    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-trade-deadline-rumors-heres-what-the-browns-want-for-star-tackle-joe-thomas/

    Florio reports the Browns are seeking a second-round pick in exchange for the All-Pro left tackle.


    up until this year he was amongst the highest paid OT's in the league, some have overtaken his cap hit now but he was never a cheap cap hit and to add in a 2nd is a lot for any team to take on. It's not as cheap as you seem to think it is. Most teams that can afford the cap hit aren't in the position to be much further along than Cleveland was or didn't need him. It's a small market, teams that are contenders and have space and the pick to give up. Denver thought the asking price was too high and passed on him so don't be so sure everybody would take him.
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Re: What is our first round worth at 26?
Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:57 pm
  • flmmkrz wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    flmmkrz wrote:
    Last year the scuttle was a 2nd rounder. Just a single 2nd rounder. Idk where people are getting these huge asks..


    Cleveland's dumb, but they weren't on Thomas's contract. It was front loaded, so no way in hell they part with one of the top 2-3 LT's in the entire league for a 2nd rounder who's only taking up 10-11M of cap space for the next two years.

    If that were true, every single team in the league except Dallas would be pulling hamstrings running at this deal.


    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-trade-deadline-rumors-heres-what-the-browns-want-for-star-tackle-joe-thomas/

    Florio reports the Browns are seeking a second-round pick in exchange for the All-Pro left tackle.


    up until this year he was amongst the highest paid OT's in the league, some have overtaken his cap hit now but he was never a cheap cap hit and to add in a 2nd is a lot for any team to take on. It's not as cheap as you seem to think it is. Most teams that can afford the cap hit aren't in the position to be much further along than Cleveland was or didn't need him. It's a small market, teams that are contenders and have space and the pick to give up. Denver thought the asking price was too high and passed on him so don't be so sure everybody would take him.
    Wonder why we aren't going for Cleveland's asking price? Think about it, I figure you are intelligent. It's exactly like the Richard Sherman trade bullshit. It's just fishing for a stupid team, owner and GM. Maybe Washington might be that stupid?
    Last edited by Josea16 on Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What is our first round worth at 26?
Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:06 pm
  • Josea16 wrote:
    flmmkrz wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    flmmkrz wrote:
    Last year the scuttle was a 2nd rounder. Just a single 2nd rounder. Idk where people are getting these huge asks..


    Cleveland's dumb, but they weren't on Thomas's contract. It was front loaded, so no way in hell they part with one of the top 2-3 LT's in the entire league for a 2nd rounder who's only taking up 10-11M of cap space for the next two years.

    If that were true, every single team in the league except Dallas would be pulling hamstrings running at this deal.


    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-trade-deadline-rumors-heres-what-the-browns-want-for-star-tackle-joe-thomas/

    Florio reports the Browns are seeking a second-round pick in exchange for the All-Pro left tackle.


    up until this year he was amongst the highest paid OT's in the league, some have overtaken his cap hit now but he was never a cheap cap hit and to add in a 2nd is a lot for any team to take on. It's not as cheap as you seem to think it is. Most teams that can afford the cap hit aren't in the position to be much further along than Cleveland was or didn't need him. It's a small market, teams that are contenders and have space and the pick to give up. Denver thought the asking price was too high and passed on him so don't be so sure everybody would take him.
    Wonder why we aren't going for Cleveland's asking price? Think about it, I figure you are intelligent.


    It's a new management team who has said he isn't available anymore, simple as that, can't get what isn't available. When he was offered for a 2nd, it was at the deadline, we were in cap hell and not going to fit his salary in.
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Re: Is Joe Thomas worth our 26?
Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:13 pm
  • Nope, but show me what other team that is interested in the same and stupid enough and then we might be cooking with oil. I never thought we'd ever go for him. And now? It'd be beyond insane and stupid kind of like how Dallas and New Orleans rolls.
    Last edited by Josea16 on Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is Joe Thomas worth our 26?
Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:17 pm
  • Josea16 wrote:Nope, but show me what other team that is interested in the same and stupid enough and then we might be cooking with oil.


    honestly not sure what point you're trying to make, it sounded like before you edited your previous post (wonder why ...post?) that you were saying that he isn't available for a 2nd and now it sounds like you're trying to say that it's overpayment?
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Re: Is Joe Thomas worth our 26?
Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:26 pm
  • flmmkrz wrote:
    Josea16 wrote:Nope, but show me what other team that is interested in the same and stupid enough and then we might be cooking with oil.


    honestly not sure what point you're trying to make, it sounded like before you edited your previous post (wonder why ...post?) that you were saying that he isn't available for a 2nd and now it sounds like you're trying to say that it's overpayment?

    Read the post above yours. He was NEVER worth it. Cleveland is getting stronger now quietly. They weren't ever going to trade Thomas unless it was better then the Ditkta insanity or the RG3 stupidity. Hey, here's an idea let's trade for RG3 or better yet.. let's trade OUR entire draft for any player. Let alone Ricky Williams in a passing league? Seriously?

    Seems a lot like the current Richard Sherman trade rumors to me.
    Last edited by Josea16 on Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is Joe Thomas worth our 26?
Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:35 pm
  • Josea16 wrote:
    flmmkrz wrote:
    Josea16 wrote:Nope, but show me what other team that is interested in the same and stupid enough and then we might be cooking with oil.


    honestly not sure what point you're trying to make, it sounded like before you edited your previous post (wonder why ...post?) that you were saying that he isn't available for a 2nd and now it sounds like you're trying to say that it's overpayment?

    Read the post above yours. He was NEVER worth it. Cleveland is getting stronger now quietly. They weren't ever going to trade Thomas unless it was better then the Ditkta insanity or the RG3 stupidity.1


    lmao someone likes their conspiracy theories....

    in reality Denver shot down an offer at the deadline because they thought a 2nd was too high a price. That doesn't play into your whole cleveland is a mastermind organization playing the long game hoping to goad some team into overpayment. They were just that inept. Now they got a team in place that has made the decision to keep him so it may take a big price to pry him away but that was not always the case and come deadline, if they're sputtering again don't think they may not want to put that asset back into play and for a year and a playoff, don't think there's much coming
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Re: Is Joe Thomas worth our 26?
Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:40 pm
  • and re: the sherman rumors....entirely different. The teams never had any intention of moving Sherm just said we're listening, which they'd do for just about anybody on the roster...cleveland was actively shopping him and putting out an asking price for years. That only changed with a change in managerial direction this year.
    Last edited by flmmkrz on Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is Joe Thomas worth our 26?
Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:40 pm
  • flmmkrz wrote:
    Josea16 wrote:
    flmmkrz wrote:
    Josea16 wrote:Nope, but show me what other team that is interested in the same and stupid enough and then we might be cooking with oil.


    honestly not sure what point you're trying to make, it sounded like before you edited your previous post (wonder why ...post?) that you were saying that he isn't available for a 2nd and now it sounds like you're trying to say that it's overpayment?

    Read the post above yours. He was NEVER worth it. Cleveland is getting stronger now quietly. They weren't ever going to trade Thomas unless it was better then the Ditkta insanity or the RG3 stupidity.1


    lmao someone likes their conspiracy theories....

    in reality Denver shot down an offer at the deadline because they thought a 2nd was too high a price. That doesn't play into your whole cleveland is a mastermind organization playing the long game hoping to goad some team into overpayment. They were just that inept. Now they got a team in place that has made the decision to keep him so it may take a big price to pry him away but that was not always the case.

    Ok, nice angle but crap. They started with insanity and went to sanity at the in season trade deadline. Wow, so what? Given this isn't 2016? They are going to be a factor in the AFCN this year. They can't help it with that insane amount of money they have. Just keep their own, get a decent OL, draft a good RB and an actual quarterback to groom and they won't be an easy out. And will probably win 8-10 games. It's the AFC they are so top heavy. Luckily that is about to change given too many elite players are going to other AFC teams beyond the usual suspects for once.
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Re: Is Joe Thomas worth our 26?
Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:58 pm
  • Josea16 wrote:
    honestly not sure what point you're trying to make, it sounded like before you edited your previous post (wonder why ...post?) that you were saying that he isn't available for a 2nd and now it sounds like you're trying to say that it's overpayment?

    Read the post above yours. He was NEVER worth it. Cleveland is getting stronger now quietly. They weren't ever going to trade Thomas unless it was better then the Ditkta insanity or the RG3 stupidity.1[/quote]

    lmao someone likes their conspiracy theories....

    in reality Denver shot down an offer at the deadline because they thought a 2nd was too high a price. That doesn't play into your whole cleveland is a mastermind organization playing the long game hoping to goad some team into overpayment. They were just that inept. Now they got a team in place that has made the decision to keep him so it may take a big price to pry him away but that was not always the case.[/quote]
    Ok, nice angle but crap. They started with insanity and went to sanity at the in season trade deadline. Wow, so what? Given this isn't 2016?[/quote]

    I'm trying my best not to be rude but your thought processes are incomplete and horrible to follow...

    you said they were never going to move him, they clearly were hoping to, it didn't happen. New team management comes in and he's off the table. We were talking about 2016 because never included 2016...and I said what the current management has stated but also said that given their current situation with the roster and where Joe is in his career, don't be surprised if that asset becomes in play again at some point barring unexpected team success. I have no clue what you were getting at with the angle talk and insanity sanity stuff
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Re: Is Joe Thomas worth our 26?
Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:11 pm
  • Josea16 wrote:They are going to be a factor in the AFCN this year. They can't help it with that insane amount of money they have. Just keep their own, get a decent OL, draft a good RB and an actual quarterback to groom and they won't be an easy out. And will probably win 8-10 games. It's the AFC they are so top heavy. Luckily that is about to change given too many elite players are going to other AFC teams beyond the usual suspects for once.


    you keep editing so to answer the new edition....

    Cleveland isn't going to be a factor. They are at the beginning of their development arc, assuming they draft well. They are at least a couple years from being relevant. By the time they are anything Joe will be up for a new contract and unless he's relayed that he wants to stay no matter what, they need to do what is in their best interest so I'm just saying the possibility exists.
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Re: Is Joe Thomas worth our 26?
Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:15 pm
  • Okay, I can't help or explain why you are wrong. It's fine. I'm moving on because I know any Thomas trade is utterly bullishit, don't be angry that I thought this since 2015. I figure it's 2017, and like the Cleveland Browns I don't care about 2016 or previous. Things go around and come around. That Is fact so just roll with it.:)
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Re: Is Joe Thomas worth our 26?
Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:18 pm
  • flmmkrz wrote:
    Josea16 wrote:They are going to be a factor in the AFCN this year. They can't help it with that insane amount of money they have. Just keep their own, get a decent OL, draft a good RB and an actual quarterback to groom and they won't be an easy out. And will probably win 8-10 games. It's the AFC they are so top heavy. Luckily that is about to change given too many elite players are going to other AFC teams beyond the usual suspects for once.


    you keep editing so to answer the new edition....

    Cleveland isn't going to be a factor. They are at the beginning of their development arc, assuming they draft well. They are at least a couple years from being relevant. By the time they are anything Joe will be up for a new contract and unless he's relayed that he wants to stay no matter what, they need to do what is in their best interest so I'm just saying the possibility exists.

    I live iin Chiefs Kingdom pure red AFC. Trust me the order of things are changing and fast. All due to B and B. Nobody is happy about either of them and have decided beat New England is like beat Seattle finally.
    Last edited by Josea16 on Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
    Josea16
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Re: Is Joe Thomas worth our 26?
Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:23 pm
  • Josea16 wrote:Okay, I can't help or explain why you are wrong. It's fine. I'm moving on because I know any Thomas trade is utterly bullishit, don't be angry that I thought this since 2015. I figure it's 2017, and like the Cleveland Browns I don't care about 2016 or previous. Things go around and come around. That Is fact so just roll with it.:)


    I'm not angry that you can't explain or that you've been wrong since 2015 :)

    but i'd love to bet ya that the browns don't win 8 to 10 games this year lol
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Re: Is Joe Thomas worth our 26?
Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:29 pm
  • flmmkrz wrote:
    Josea16 wrote:Okay, I can't help or explain why you are wrong. It's fine. I'm moving on because I know any Thomas trade is utterly bullishit, don't be angry that I thought this since 2015. I figure it's 2017, and like the Cleveland Browns I don't care about 2016 or previous. Things go around and come around. That Is fact so just roll with it.:)


    I'm not angry that you can't explain or that you've been wrong since 2015 :)

    but i'd love to bet ya that the browns don't win 8 to 10 games this year lol

    I will bet ONE dollar. (Trading Places). Seriously though I will. I hate gambling but I will bet on what I'm comfortable to lose. And it's Cleveland for god sakes!:)
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Re: Is Joe Thomas worth our 26?
Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:24 am
  • hawxfreak wrote:Pipe dream maybe but with the xtra money next year from cutting Kearse I could see how we could make it work and get two more years to draft a young left tackle and get him ready for when Joe retires
    They might even take Jimmy and a !st which would let us go draft heavy on D again
    I'd do it , of course there's a lot of things I'd do that may not be good for me later :kool-aid:

    WTF was this? I so love .Net. It points out where to talk about football and the Seahawks. Thank You. Or make you fake GM's go Missouri mode and put up or shut up already.
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