In my opinion three teams that came out as winners tonight are

1) Cleveland. Not only smart good picks but used the draft capital and moved both up and down and stayed smart. Also with not drafting a QB and rolling with Osweiler they secured next years first pick which will put a QB on an otherwise good teamIMHO

2) 49ers. Moving down one spot and getting the guy they wanted plus two 3rd rounders and a 4th was smart and played well. Then rumor is hey consider foster with their no 3 pick and if correct they just gave up less than they gained at the beginning of the round to grab him

3) Houston was a QB away from a very good season last year. Opinions are split on Watson but he will undoubtedly be better than what they had. I honk they will be very dangerous next year

This is a steal for the 49ers. They were choosing between Foster and Solomon at number 2, and ended up getting both PLUS an extra third round pick. Unbelievable.

Special thanks to the Seahawks for the trade.

5_Golden_Rings wrote:This is a steal for the 49ers. They were choosing between Foster and Solomon at number 2, and ended up getting both PLUS an extra third round pick. Unbelievable.

Special thanks to the Seahawks for the trade.

I just hope Foster stays healthy and doesnt follow in Aldon Smiths shoes. I understand the Solomon pick but I wish we could have traded back again. I wanted Adams. I can only assume with the depth of CB in this draft they plan on moving Ward. At worst Armstead will be on the way out, at best he can play Leo and help keep the DL fresh late into games. Even with these knocks I am very excited.

So they were considering a guy for the 3rd pick they got at 31?

Probably a reason for that, no?

Considering they have a new regime I assume you don't mean that their inept FO is why they are picking 3rd and don't know how to evaluate players

Uncle Si wrote:So they were considering a guy for the 3rd pick they got at 31?

Probably a reason for that, no?

Correct, diluted sample and possible off field issues. Has a tendency to get stingers during games and recently had rotator cuff surgery. Based on how Lynch handled the Brock situation(released) I would expect an understanding that Foster is on a short leash and a zero tolerance policy. At 31 that's still a strong investment. However, he is quite talented.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/04/27/nfl-d ... und-grades

Sourdough #49 wrote:

Uncle Si wrote:So they were considering a guy for the 3rd pick they got at 31?

Probably a reason for that, no?

Correct, diluted sample and possible off field issues. Has a tendency to get stingers during games and recently had rotator cuff surgery. Based on how Lynch handled the Brock situation(released) I would expect an understanding that Foster is on a short leash and a zero tolerance policy due to the black eye of previous seasons of incidents but even at 31 thats an investment.

If he knocks guys out ala Kam then tolerance will be increased, Lynch after all was a beast early in his career as well and that's the image he wants the 49ers to have. I am not worried really, when the 49ers were contenders and your defense made people pay attention it just made the Seahawks better. This Staff will be paying attention I am sure.

mikeak wrote:In my opinion three teams that came out as winners tonight are

1) Cleveland. Not only smart good picks but used the draft capital and moved both up and down and stayed smart. Also with not drafting a QB and rolling with Osweiler they secured next years first pick which will put a QB on an otherwise good teamIMHO

2) 49ers. Moving down one spot and getting the guy they wanted plus two 3rd rounders and a 4th was smart and played well. Then rumor is hey consider foster with their no 3 pick and if correct they just gave up less than they gained at the beginning of the round to grab him

3) Houston was a QB away from a very good season last year. Opinions are split on Watson but he will undoubtedly be better than what they had. I honk they will be very dangerous next year

Someone told me Cleveland has enough draft capital to get whatever QB they want next year.

Uncle Si wrote:So they were considering a guy for the 3rd pick they got at 31?

Probably a reason for that, no?

He's a top 5 talent who lost his cool to a hospital staff worker, has a shoulder injury, and possibly smokes weed.

However, not all great talents with off field issues don't pan out. For example, NaVorro Bowman.

http://www.dailylocal.com/article/DL/20 ... /304239927

NINEster wrote:

mikeak wrote:In my opinion three teams that came out as winners tonight are

1) Cleveland. Not only smart good picks but used the draft capital and moved both up and down and stayed smart. Also with not drafting a QB and rolling with Osweiler they secured next years first pick which will put a QB on an otherwise good teamIMHO

2) 49ers. Moving down one spot and getting the guy they wanted plus two 3rd rounders and a 4th was smart and played well. Then rumor is hey consider foster with their no 3 pick and if correct they just gave up less than they gained at the beginning of the round to grab him

3) Houston was a QB away from a very good season last year. Opinions are split on Watson but he will undoubtedly be better than what they had. I honk they will be very dangerous next year

Someone told me Cleveland has enough draft capital to get whatever QB they want next year.

When you pick number one you always have get to choose who you want.

getnasty wrote:
When you pick number one you always have get to choose who you want.

I like what they did the rest of the round. To move down when their QB was off the board and get more picks. They are now building from the ground up and not doing the same dance as normal.

5_Golden_Rings wrote:

Special thanks to the Seahawks for the trade.

Yeah wasn't happy about that last trade giving the Niners arguably an all pro LB for a decade. I never like trading within the division.

Sgt. Largent wrote:

5_Golden_Rings wrote:

Special thanks to the Seahawks for the trade.

Yeah wasn't happy about that last trade giving the Niners arguably an all pro LB for a decade. I never like trading within the division.

and it is definitely who they wanted

http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2017/story ... -nfl-draft

"When things got more serious, they sent vice president of football affairs Keena Turner and team chaplain Earl Smith to Tuscaloosa to meet with Foster for two days."

I LOVE the Foster pick but I do recognize the significant risk in it. Picking him at 31 tho is VERY different then taking him at 2 or 3.

The shoulder honestly is my biggest concern but is it really more concerning than Myles Jack or Jaylon Smith last year who were both taken only a few picks later? According to Foster himself tho, New Orleans had already told him he was their pick at 32 so Niners HAD to move to get him.

I think my biggest surprise tho was that it was a trade with Seattle. The last time I can remember the Niners trading up with NFC West rival in round 1 for a defender was '94 when they moved up with the Rams for Bryant Young.

If Foster is even 80% of what Young was this was a steal.

I read that Foster might need another shoulder surgery and might have to be redshirted in 2017. If so, classic Niners.

I loved the last trade. Get em' cheap and stack em' deep.

Marvin49 wrote:I LOVE the Foster pick but I do recognize the significant risk in it. Picking him at 31 tho is VERY different then taking him at 2 or 3.

The shoulder honestly is my biggest concern but is it really more concerning than Myles Jack or Jaylon Smith last year who were both taken only a few picks later? According to Foster himself tho, New Orleans had already told him he was their pick at 32 so Niners HAD to move to get him.

I think my biggest surprise tho was that it was a trade with Seattle. The last time I can remember the Niners trading up with NFC West rival in round 1 for a defender was '94 when they moved up with the Rams for Bryant Young.

If Foster is even 80% of what Young was this was a steal.

With the NO information it makes perfect sense

We rather let the 49ers have Foster than a team that we might have to play in the playoffs

nanomoz wrote:I read that Foster might need another shoulder surgery and might have to be redshirted in 2017. If so, classic Niners.

49ers medical staff checked him out and don't believe he needs another surgery. Foster himself says he feels he is at 90% right now.


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... er-surgery

Sourdough #49 wrote:

nanomoz wrote:I read that Foster might need another shoulder surgery and might have to be redshirted in 2017. If so, classic Niners.

49ers medical staff checked him out and don't believe he needs another surgery. Foster himself says he feels he is at 90% right now.


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... er-surgery

When have you ever read or heard that a player didn't say he was good to go and felt great, especially before a draft.

Don't get me wrong, I'm nervous about this trade, cause Foster's a stud. But I don't take a player's word farther than I can throw him.

Sgt. Largent wrote:

Sourdough #49 wrote:

nanomoz wrote:I read that Foster might need another shoulder surgery and might have to be redshirted in 2017. If so, classic Niners.

49ers medical staff checked him out and don't believe he needs another surgery. Foster himself says he feels he is at 90% right now.


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... er-surgery

When have you ever read or heard that a player didn't say he was good to go and felt great, especially before a draft.

Don't get me wrong, I'm nervous about this trade, cause Foster's a stud. But I don't take a player's word farther than I can throw him.

Very true. Lynch suggested if Thomas was taken by the Bears at 2 we might have taken Foster at 3. Lets just say I am very happy from a value standpoint the way the cards landed. As talented as Foster is, taking him at 3 would be tough to swallow.

To be totally honest, if he was three on their board and they took him at 31 with the INTENTION of sitting him for a year I wouldn't even blink at that.

They suck and first round contracts have fifth year options. That wouldn't bother me at all.

Bad teams should be trying to extract long term value that way.

Honk?


:{)

Hope he doesn't end up with the shoulder situation Brian Bosworth had, great player if he was healthy same kind of reckless disregard for his body.

Agree with the OP. The Browns' picks have had me nodding. The 49ers had some sweet moves. And the Texans did well for themselves.

A 1st round not-so-much-of-a-winner?

getnasty wrote:

NINEster wrote:

mikeak wrote:In my opinion three teams that came out as winners tonight are

1) Cleveland. Not only smart good picks but used the draft capital and moved both up and down and stayed smart. Also with not drafting a QB and rolling with Osweiler they secured next years first pick which will put a QB on an otherwise good teamIMHO

2) 49ers. Moving down one spot and getting the guy they wanted plus two 3rd rounders and a 4th was smart and played well. Then rumor is hey consider foster with their no 3 pick and if correct they just gave up less than they gained at the beginning of the round to grab him

3) Houston was a QB away from a very good season last year. Opinions are split on Watson but he will undoubtedly be better than what they had. I honk they will be very dangerous next year

Someone told me Cleveland has enough draft capital to get whatever QB they want next year.

When you pick number one you always have get to choose who you want.

It won't matter if they win the Super Bowl, they'll be able to pick #1 overall if they need to.

BTW, 49ers picked JJ Stokes at #10 right after they won the Super Bowl.

mikeak wrote:

Marvin49 wrote:I LOVE the Foster pick but I do recognize the significant risk in it. Picking him at 31 tho is VERY different then taking him at 2 or 3.

The shoulder honestly is my biggest concern but is it really more concerning than Myles Jack or Jaylon Smith last year who were both taken only a few picks later? According to Foster himself tho, New Orleans had already told him he was their pick at 32 so Niners HAD to move to get him.

I think my biggest surprise tho was that it was a trade with Seattle. The last time I can remember the Niners trading up with NFC West rival in round 1 for a defender was '94 when they moved up with the Rams for Bryant Young.

If Foster is even 80% of what Young was this was a steal.

With the NO information it makes perfect sense

We rather let the 49ers have Foster than a team that we might have to play in the playoffs

I enjoy the fact that Schneider keeps thinking his defense is better than it really is. He's bought into the national hype that the Seahawks have the best defense in the league still.

49ers run same defense as Seahawks, Bowman comparable to Wagner, Smith comparable to KJ Wright, and yet the Hawks think their #3 is that good they could pass on him. The 49ers drafted LB despite no longer running a 3-4.

We now have 4 teams running the 4-3 Under:

Seahawks
Falcons
49ers
Chargers

Should be interesting watching these defenses compare over time.

So the 49ers get another 3rd round QB that wears 16 and can't throw the deep ball supposedly. 49ers have done well so far and I like the Iowa kid based on his highlights.

NINEster wrote:
I enjoy the fact that Schneider keeps thinking his defense is better than it really is. He's bought into the national hype that the Seahawks have the best defense in the league still.

49ers run same defense as Seahawks, Bowman comparable to Wagner, Smith comparable to KJ Wright, and yet the Hawks think their #3 is that good they could pass on him. The 49ers drafted LB despite no longer running a 3-4.

We now have 4 teams running the 4-3 Under:

Seahawks
Falcons
49ers
Chargers

Should be interesting watching these defenses compare over time.

Hilariously uninformed post. Homerish niner junk. Do people not understand schemes and fits at all?

Foster isn't a fit for the Seahawks -- Why the hell would John and Pete spend a pick on him? We need strongside linebacker that runs 4.5 ish, has excellent coverage skills with long arms, so he can actually handle Wide Receivers from time to time, like Irvin did well, and Morgan does at a journeyman level, not a slower, smaller MLB who would sit on the bench for 5 years because our All Pro at that position is only 26 years old.

As far as Schneider "thinking his defense" is better, if that was the case he would not have spent 4 of our first 5 picks in this draft on our DEFENSE. He got two D line studs, one that has a good chance of giving us what Red Bryant used to provide, except with more speed and pass rush skills, so that could be a game changer right there. We also just picked up a CB that may actually start as a rookie, considering the injury situation, and a guy who should be a significant upgrade as a backup safety compared to what we had last year.

Another thing: These so called "world beater" Linebackers that come out of Alabama every year, never pan out as dominant in the NFL. No matter how fantastic they look in college, in the NFL? Not so much.

Guys like Mark Barron, Ryan Anderson, Hightower, Mosley, et. -- all end up being role players.

The ones who do the best in the NFL are guys who are playing behind dominant D lines like they are used to, but even then they aren't exactly rolling in Pro Bowls.

The old adage - LB or a RB from Alabama are always overrated, seems to hold plenty of water.


Like last year "Ezekiel Elliot or Derrick Henry, which RB do you draft?" Some very wise draft pundit says "Easy, the guy who doesn't play for Alabama"

Guess what? Elliot goes for nearly 2k

Henry for under 500

No debate, no contest.

Which one didn't play for bama?

The_Z_Man wrote:Another thing: These so called "world beater" Linebackers that come out of Alabama every year, never pan out as dominant in the NFL. No matter how fantastic they look in college, in the NFL? Not so much.

Guys like Mark Barron, Ryan Anderson, Hightower, Mosley, et. -- all end up being role players.

The ones who do the best in the NFL are guys who are playing behind dominant D lines like they are used to, but even then they aren't exactly rolling in Pro Bowls.

The old adage - LB or a RB from Alabama are always overrated, seems to hold plenty of water.


Like last year "Ezekiel Elliot or Derrick Henry, which RB do you draft?" Some very wise draft pundit says "Easy, the guy who doesn't play for Alabama"

Guess what? Elliot goes for nearly 2k

Henry for under 500

No debate, no contest.

Which one didn't play for bama?

I agree with you about Barron, but Mosley is a 2x All Pro already & Hightower is also a very good LB. Was just an all-pro last year. Ryan Anderson hasn't played an NFL down yet, so he's TBD.

Henry also played behind a top 7 RB in DeMarco Murray, even though Zeke is still the superior RB.

If you want to talk about underwhelming Alabama prospects, I would go CBs.

ClutchDJ wrote:

The_Z_Man wrote:Another thing: These so called "world beater" Linebackers that come out of Alabama every year, never pan out as dominant in the NFL. No matter how fantastic they look in college, in the NFL? Not so much.

Guys like Mark Barron, Ryan Anderson, Hightower, Mosley, et. -- all end up being role players.

The ones who do the best in the NFL are guys who are playing behind dominant D lines like they are used to, but even then they aren't exactly rolling in Pro Bowls.

The old adage - LB or a RB from Alabama are always overrated, seems to hold plenty of water.


Like last year "Ezekiel Elliot or Derrick Henry, which RB do you draft?" Some very wise draft pundit says "Easy, the guy who doesn't play for Alabama"

Guess what? Elliot goes for nearly 2k

Henry for under 500

No debate, no contest.

Which one didn't play for bama?

I agree with you about Barron, but Mosley is a 2x All Pro already & Hightower is also a very good LB. Was just an all-pro last year. Ryan Anderson hasn't played an NFL down yet, so he's TBD.

Henry also played behind a top 7 RB in DeMarco Murray, even though Zeke is still the superior RB.

If you want to talk about underwhelming Alabama prospects, I would go CBs.

I meant to say a bit more about Mosley, but I was tired. Yes, he plays well, but if you aren't a Pro Bowl player at LB in that Baltimore system there's something wrong. You also have a point about CB.

It's just this thing about Alabama, when you have a massive future NFL player at every position along the D line, it's hard to tell just how exceptional the linebackers really are, and for that matter the DB's. They don't have to cover very long at Alabama because QB's are running for their lives.

Anyway, getting sidetracked. The original post I took umbrage with, is this notion that the Seahawks are stupid for not picking the guy. Even if he goes on to be a stud with the 49ers, it wouldn't mean the same in our system, and again, we have Wagner and KJ Wright... what we need is that Strongside guy that occasionaly pick up a WR in the same way that KJ handles tight ends at times.

The_Z_Man wrote:
It's just this thing about Alabama, when you have a massive future NFL player at every position along the D line, it's hard to tell just how exceptional the linebackers really are, and for that matter the DB's. They don't have to cover very long at Alabama because QB's are running for their lives.

Anyway, getting sidetracked. The original post I took umbrage with, is this notion that the Seahawks are stupid for not picking the guy. Even if he goes on to be a stud with the 49ers, it wouldn't mean the same in our system, and again, we have Wagner and KJ Wright... what we need is that Strongside guy that occasionaly pick up a WR in the same way that KJ handles tight ends at times.

This hits the nail on the head. Alabama has produced Pro-Bowl level DL during this run but their DB's and LB's have tended to be busts or over drafted.

NINEster wrote:

mikeak wrote:

Marvin49 wrote:I LOVE the Foster pick but I do recognize the significant risk in it. Picking him at 31 tho is VERY different then taking him at 2 or 3.

The shoulder honestly is my biggest concern but is it really more concerning than Myles Jack or Jaylon Smith last year who were both taken only a few picks later? According to Foster himself tho, New Orleans had already told him he was their pick at 32 so Niners HAD to move to get him.

I think my biggest surprise tho was that it was a trade with Seattle. The last time I can remember the Niners trading up with NFC West rival in round 1 for a defender was '94 when they moved up with the Rams for Bryant Young.

If Foster is even 80% of what Young was this was a steal.

With the NO information it makes perfect sense

We rather let the 49ers have Foster than a team that we might have to play in the playoffs

I enjoy the fact that Schneider keeps thinking his defense is better than it really is. He's bought into the national hype that the Seahawks have the best defense in the league still.

49ers run same defense as Seahawks, Bowman comparable to Wagner, Smith comparable to KJ Wright, and yet the Hawks think their #3 is that good they could pass on him. The 49ers drafted LB despite no longer running a 3-4.

We now have 4 teams running the 4-3 Under:

Seahawks
Falcons
49ers
Chargers

Should be interesting watching these defenses compare over time.

Still one of the top defenses in the NFL, and the Falcons, Chargers, and 9ers still have below average to awful defenses. Bowman was better than Wagoner two knee injuries ago, but it's been a long time, and LOL at Smith being better than Wright. Cmon man.

The_Z_Man wrote:

NINEster wrote:
I enjoy the fact that Schneider keeps thinking his defense is better than it really is. He's bought into the national hype that the Seahawks have the best defense in the league still.

49ers run same defense as Seahawks, Bowman comparable to Wagner, Smith comparable to KJ Wright, and yet the Hawks think their #3 is that good they could pass on him. The 49ers drafted LB despite no longer running a 3-4.

We now have 4 teams running the 4-3 Under:

Seahawks
Falcons
49ers
Chargers

Should be interesting watching these defenses compare over time.

Hilariously uninformed post. Homerish niner junk. Do people not understand schemes and fits at all?

Foster isn't a fit for the Seahawks -- Why the hell would John and Pete spend a pick on him? We need strongside linebacker that runs 4.5 ish, has excellent coverage skills with long arms, so he can actually handle Wide Receivers from time to time, like Irvin did well, and Morgan does at a journeyman level, not a slower, smaller MLB who would sit on the bench for 5 years because our All Pro at that position is only 26 years old.

As far as Schneider "thinking his defense" is better, if that was the case he would not have spent 4 of our first 5 picks in this draft on our DEFENSE. He got two D line studs, one that has a good chance of giving us what Red Bryant used to provide, except with more speed and pass rush skills, so that could be a game changer right there. We also just picked up a CB that may actually start as a rookie, considering the injury situation, and a guy who should be a significant upgrade as a backup safety compared to what we had last year.

Zing!

NINEster wrote:
I enjoy the fact that Schneider keeps thinking his defense is better than it really is. He's bought into the national hype that the Seahawks have the best defense in the league.

It was, right up until the time Thomas went down for the season.

Thomas will be back next year.

And we just reloaded.

chris98251 wrote:So the 49ers get another 3rd round QB that wears 16 and can't throw the deep ball supposedly. 49ers have done well so far and I like the Iowa kid based on his highlights.

He has some deep ball accuracy issues, but the claim by the "experts" that he has a noodle arm is flat out laughable and embarrassing for them (because it shows they didn't actually watch much film on him).

His ACTUAL flaws include: pocket awareness, deep ball accuracy inconsistency, hesitation from time to time.

The_Z_Man wrote:

NINEster wrote:
I enjoy the fact that Schneider keeps thinking his defense is better than it really is. He's bought into the national hype that the Seahawks have the best defense in the league still.

49ers run same defense as Seahawks, Bowman comparable to Wagner, Smith comparable to KJ Wright, and yet the Hawks think their #3 is that good they could pass on him. The 49ers drafted LB despite no longer running a 3-4.

We now have 4 teams running the 4-3 Under:

Seahawks
Falcons
49ers
Chargers

Should be interesting watching these defenses compare over time.

Hilariously uninformed post. Homerish niner junk. Do people not understand schemes and fits at all?

Foster isn't a fit for the Seahawks -- Why the hell would John and Pete spend a pick on him? We need strongside linebacker that runs 4.5 ish, has excellent coverage skills with long arms, so he can actually handle Wide Receivers from time to time, like Irvin did well, and Morgan does at a journeyman level, not a slower, smaller MLB who would sit on the bench for 5 years because our All Pro at that position is only 26 years old.

As far as Schneider "thinking his defense" is better, if that was the case he would not have spent 4 of our first 5 picks in this draft on our DEFENSE. He got two D line studs, one that has a good chance of giving us what Red Bryant used to provide, except with more speed and pass rush skills, so that could be a game changer right there. We also just picked up a CB that may actually start as a rookie, considering the injury situation, and a guy who should be a significant upgrade as a backup safety compared to what we had last year.

I would say Foster is a SCHEME* fit for Seattle, but not a ROSTER fit due to Wagner and Wright.

Seattle drafting him would be like Green Bay drafting a qn in round 1.


*-Note: You will not find another cb as tall and yet still as good as Sherman. It makes no sense to say his body type is the only scheme fit. He's just the ideal. But any somewhat tall cb who can play press and zone would be a scheme fit.

Likewise with Foster, except I'd add that he's athletic and instinctual enough to fit ANY NFL scheme. Case in point regarding his slightly slower speed: Derrick Brooks ran a 4.67, and anyone who says he would not fit in Seattle's scheme should turn in their NFL fan card. The closest defense in the last 20 years to Seattle's is that Bucs team. Speed is important for coverage. Quickness, reaction time and instinct are FAR more important.

Popeyejones wrote:

NINEster wrote:

mikeak wrote:

Marvin49 wrote:I LOVE the Foster pick but I do recognize the significant risk in it. Picking him at 31 tho is VERY different then taking him at 2 or 3.

The shoulder honestly is my biggest concern but is it really more concerning than Myles Jack or Jaylon Smith last year who were both taken only a few picks later? According to Foster himself tho, New Orleans had already told him he was their pick at 32 so Niners HAD to move to get him.

I think my biggest surprise tho was that it was a trade with Seattle. The last time I can remember the Niners trading up with NFC West rival in round 1 for a defender was '94 when they moved up with the Rams for Bryant Young.

If Foster is even 80% of what Young was this was a steal.

With the NO information it makes perfect sense

We rather let the 49ers have Foster than a team that we might have to play in the playoffs

I enjoy the fact that Schneider keeps thinking his defense is better than it really is. He's bought into the national hype that the Seahawks have the best defense in the league still.

49ers run same defense as Seahawks, Bowman comparable to Wagner, Smith comparable to KJ Wright, and yet the Hawks think their #3 is that good they could pass on him. The 49ers drafted LB despite no longer running a 3-4.

We now have 4 teams running the 4-3 Under:

Seahawks
Falcons
49ers
Chargers

Should be interesting watching these defenses compare over time.

Still one of the top defenses in the NFL, and the Falcons, Chargers, and 9ers still have below average to awful defenses. Bowman was better than Wagoner two knee injuries ago, but it's been a long time, and LOL at Smith being better than Wright. Cmon man.

I dunno about that in terms of the talent on D on SFs roster.

I will say that Seattle is still REALLY good on D so I'm not going to make THAT argument. Lol. SF has a long way to go to approach that class.

Having said that, I think the DC last year in SF really masked what talent is there. D-Line consistently playing on their heals with too much to do, LBs CONSTANTLY getting hurt (Ray Ray Armstrong and Navarro both out for season by week 5), and the DBs either weren't that good or were playing out of position.

Now, I can't wait to see Arik Armstead, DeForest Buckner, and Solomon Thomas all firing upfield and attacking in a one-gap system. What Armstead does really well is bull rush into the backfield. What he doesn't do as well is read and shed. Buckner started looking real good at the end of the year and looks like he's put on muscle when interview lately dude is just huge now.

My concern is exactly where these two guys plus Thomas play along the line...but its a good problem to have.

With Bowman and Armstrong coming back and now Foster there to join him...things are looking up quite a bit at LB. To be clear, I don't think Armstrong is a star or something, but he played well in brief time before he got hurt last year.

DB? I think this will be huge. The are moving Eric Reid to be a box safety ALA Kam. Personally, I don't think its going to work out and they'll let him leave as a FA next year. I just don't think that fits his game in particular since the concussions. I think Tartt should get a shot there or they may prioritize that position in the draft next year. I really like Rashard Robinson as one corner and wonder about Witherspoon or Johnson on the other side. It seems clear though that they are looking at long levered tall corners ALA Seattle. Not saying those guys will be Sherman as that would be foolish, but they are certainly looking for guys with Shermans physical attributes.

FS is my favorite move. Jimmie Ward should have been a FS from the start. Great center fielder who now has experience at corner if its necessary. I think he could emerge as a star back there.

Niners have a TON of work to do, but I see talent on all three levels of defense. Jim O'neil tho was a complete disaster just as he was in Cleveland. Thats who is available to you through when Chip Kelly is your HC.

5_Golden_Rings wrote:Likewise with Foster, except I'd add that he's athletic and instinctual enough to fit ANY NFL scheme. Case in point regarding his slightly slower speed: Derrick Brooks ran a 4.67, and anyone who says he would not fit in Seattle's scheme should turn in their NFL fan card. The closest defense in the last 20 years to Seattle's is that Bucs team. Speed is important for coverage. Quickness, reaction time and instinct are FAR more important.

What the hell does Derrick Brooks have to do with this conversation? We have a guy who plays that position, his name is KJ Wright.

I was talking about the reasons for not drafting Foster.

I said that he'd backup Wagner, and that is the entire point of my freaking post. He'd play MLB well in Seattle's scheme, but Wagner is only 26. Which means that by drafting Foster you'd get a player who would fill in for an injured Wagner, but the rest of the time you'd be struggling to find a place for him. Foster wouldn't help the Seahawks unless Wagner or Wright went down, and that would be frustrating for Foster, and we all see that he has personality issues and would likely act out if he was frustrated by sitting on the bench or being used in a role he's not suited for.

So instead of forcing a square peg into a round hole, you get an extra pick and grab a player who does way more for the team. If MM plays up to potential, the impact on the Seahawks D is triple what you'd ever get out of Foster at his ceiling. McDowell was the risk Seattle had to take in this draft, no matter what. We need interior pass rush on the line, BADLY, not a backup Middle or Weak side linebacker.

The Redskins and Texans won the first round.

The_Z_Man wrote:

5_Golden_Rings wrote:Likewise with Foster, except I'd add that he's athletic and instinctual enough to fit ANY NFL scheme. Case in point regarding his slightly slower speed: Derrick Brooks ran a 4.67, and anyone who says he would not fit in Seattle's scheme should turn in their NFL fan card. The closest defense in the last 20 years to Seattle's is that Bucs team. Speed is important for coverage. Quickness, reaction time and instinct are FAR more important.

What the hell does Derrick Brooks have to do with this conversation? We have a guy who plays that position, his name is KJ Wright.

I was talking about the reasons for not drafting Foster.

I said that he'd backup Wagner, and that is the entire point of my freaking post. He'd play MLB well in Seattle's scheme, but Wagner is only 26. Which means that by drafting Foster you'd get a player who would fill in for an injured Wagner, but the rest of the time you'd be struggling to find a place for him. Foster wouldn't help the Seahawks unless Wagner or Wright went down, and that would be frustrating for Foster, and we all see that he has personality issues and would likely act out if he was frustrated by sitting on the bench or being used in a role he's not suited for.

So instead of forcing a square peg into a round hole, you get an extra pick and grab a player who does way more for the team. If MM plays up to potential, the impact on the Seahawks D is triple what you'd ever get out of Foster at his ceiling. McDowell was the risk Seattle had to take in this draft, no matter what. We need interior pass rush on the line, BADLY, not a backup Middle or Weak side linebacker.

I only addressed if you meant a scheme fit. If you meant a roster fit, then yes. But scheme? Foster can and would do very well in that scheme (as would Brooks).

So, I agree that this was a good trade for Seattle, but it's because of the roster, not the scheme.

5_Golden_Rings wrote:I only addressed if you meant a scheme fit. If you meant a roster fit, then yes. But scheme? Foster can and would do very well in that scheme (as would Brooks).

So, I agree that this was a good trade for Seattle, but it's because of the roster, not the scheme.

It's a combo of both, scheme and roster. Obviously if the Seahawks were playing 3-4 -- (which they kinda do, in that their LEO plays like an LB at times) they would draft foster in a heartbeat.

And still, there is some scheme consideration. Example: They really do need a linebacker, however, the Seahawks SS linebacker, which they call SAM -- has to do a few things that Foster cannot do.

#1 The SAM linebacker is responsible for containing outside running plays, picking up the occasional wide receiver, tight end, AND has to take on the left tackle. He has to have long arms, speed, and bulk. Foster has A: short arms, and B: sub par speed, and he's a bit small. KPL is an example of a guy who has the speed to play SAM in our scheme but really struggles and is limited because he's a touch too small. He gets completely swallowed by tackles, and trucked by bigger backs and tight ends. Morgan has the same issue. Foster is about the same size or a little bit smaller than KPL and Morgan, in addition he is slower.

If he was about 2 inches taller and ran a 4.5 to 4.6 instead of a 4.6 to 4.7, you can bet your ass the Seahawks would have drafted him.

So, it's really a combo of roster and scheme.

The_Z_Man wrote:

5_Golden_Rings wrote:I only addressed if you meant a scheme fit. If you meant a roster fit, then yes. But scheme? Foster can and would do very well in that scheme (as would Brooks).

So, I agree that this was a good trade for Seattle, but it's because of the roster, not the scheme.

It's a combo of both, scheme and roster. Obviously if the Seahawks were playing 3-4 -- (which they kinda do, in that their LEO plays like an LB at times) they would draft foster in a heartbeat.

And still, there is some scheme consideration. Example: They really do need a linebacker, however, the Seahawks SS linebacker, which they call SAM -- has to do a few things that Foster cannot do.

#1 The SAM linebacker is responsible for containing outside running plays, picking up the occasional wide receiver, tight end, AND has to take on the left tackle. He has to have long arms, speed, and bulk. Foster has A: short arms, and B: sub par speed, and he's a bit small. KPL is an example of a guy who has the speed to play SAM in our scheme but really struggles and is limited because he's a touch too small. He gets completely swallowed by tackles, and trucked by bigger backs and tight ends. Morgan has the same issue. Foster is about the same size or a little bit smaller than KPL and Morgan, in addition he is slower.

If he was about 2 inches taller and ran a 4.5 to 4.6 instead of a 4.6 to 4.7, you can bet your ass the Seahawks would have drafted him.

So, it's really a combo of roster and scheme.

Foster is not a SAM. He is a MIKE or WILL, and he did pick up wrs in college and did well doing so. He will play off the line, like Wright often does (who ran a 4.75 per nfl.com). (Btw who told you Foster was playing Sam? All reports from 49ers beat writets say that position is likely to be manned by Eli Harold and Amhad Btooks until a suitably faster player is found)


http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/k.j ... id=2495252



Furthermore, he didn't actually run a 40 in either the combine or his pro day, so how do you know he runs a 4.6?


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... attendance

He participated in no physical activities.




In any event, a great linebacker can run will or mike in that defense, as reaction time and vision is far more important than speed. As I said, put Derrick Brooks at Will and he diminates.

5_Golden_Rings wrote:Foster is not a SAM. He is a MIKE or WILL, and he did pick up wrs in college and did well doing so. He will play off the line, like Wright often does (who ran a 4.75 per nfl.com). (Btw who told you Foster was playing Sam? All reports from 49ers beat writets say that position is likely to be manned by Eli Harold and Amhad Btooks until a suitably faster player is found)


http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/k.j ... id=2495252



Furthermore, he didn't actually run a 40 in either the combine or his pro day, so how do you know he runs a 4.6?


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... attendance

He participated in no physical activities.




In any event, a great linebacker can run will or mike in that defense, as reaction time and vision is far more important than speed. As I said, put Derrick Brooks at Will and he diminates.

You really don't pay attention very well. That was the point I have been making since the freaking beginning.

The Seahawks need a SAM, Foster is not a SAM. End of story.

Alabama does workouts and speed training all the time, if you google stuff and look in their player pages you can see his personal best 40.


4.65

The_Z_Man wrote:

5_Golden_Rings wrote:Foster is not a SAM. He is a MIKE or WILL, and he did pick up wrs in college and did well doing so. He will play off the line, like Wright often does (who ran a 4.75 per nfl.com). (Btw who told you Foster was playing Sam? All reports from 49ers beat writets say that position is likely to be manned by Eli Harold and Amhad Btooks until a suitably faster player is found)


http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/k.j ... id=2495252



Furthermore, he didn't actually run a 40 in either the combine or his pro day, so how do you know he runs a 4.6?


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... attendance

He participated in no physical activities.




In any event, a great linebacker can run will or mike in that defense, as reaction time and vision is far more important than speed. As I said, put Derrick Brooks at Will and he diminates.

You really don't pay attention very well. That was the point I have been making since the freaking beginning.

The Seahawks need a SAM, Foster is not a SAM. End of story.

Alabama does workouts and speed training all the time, if you google stuff and look in their player pages you can see his personal best 40.


4.65

What you said really was ambiguous in and of itself. You said the following: "And still, there is some scheme consideration. Example: They really do need a linebacker, however, the Seahawks SS linebacker, which they call SAM -- has to do a few things that Foster cannot do. "

Indicating you considered Foster a SAM, if it were read at face value within the context of my argument (which you were responding to). If, as you say now, you're simply saying that Seattle has no need for HIS position (Will/Mike), then you really didn't address my argument at all, which is that THEORETICALLY SPEAKING, Foster is capable of playing in Seattle's scheme, in his natural position. If you didn't even address that, but I assumed you did, then it is natural to assume that you believe Foster is a slow SAM.

49ers draft pick Reuben Foster’s offseason shoulder surgery reportedly ‘didn’t take’

When Alabama linebacker Reuben Foster dropped from a potential top 10 pick all the way to the tail end of the first round of the 2017 NFL Draft, it appeared his failed drug test and hasty ejection from the Combine were to blame. Instead, the real culprit may be a bum shoulder.

Foster had surgery to repair a torn rotator cuff after Alabama’s season came to a close. However, reports suggest the procedure “didn’t take,” which may force the dynamic defender to go under the knife in the near future to correct it. Standard rotator cuff repairs can take between four to six months to fully recover from, a timeline that could put the first half of Foster’s rookie season in jeopardy.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2017/5/3/15534678/49ers-draft-pick-reuben-foster-offseason-shoulder-surgery-didnt-take

John Clayton on 710 ESPN also just reported that GM John Lynch did not know about the full extent of the shoulder issue when they traded up to draft him, however other teams did. I seem to remember a few here thinking Lynch got one over on Schneider in that trade up for Foster. This, if true, may point more to the other John doing the schooling...

[note]
I have not seen it reported anywhere else online that SF didn't know about Foster's shoulder surgery "not taking". I can not confirm that as fact, but maybe just speculation by Clayton?

^ my thoughts are even if he sits the whole year you bought an extra year option by getting Foster in the first round. Yes it changes things if they didn't know because it speaks to not doing their due diligence properly and getting last minute information reviewed properly, BUT I doubt that they would have made a different decision if they did know.

Now if they drafted him 3rd overall - completely different discussion

5_Golden_Rings wrote:What you said really was ambiguous in and of itself. You said the following: "And still, there is some scheme consideration. Example: They really do need a linebacker, however, the Seahawks SS linebacker, which they call SAM -- has to do a few things that Foster cannot do. "

Indicating you considered Foster a SAM, if it were read at face value within the context of my argument (which you were responding to). If, as you say now, you're simply saying that Seattle has no need for HIS position (Will/Mike), then you really didn't address my argument at all, which is that THEORETICALLY SPEAKING, Foster is capable of playing in Seattle's scheme, in his natural position. If you didn't even address that, but I assumed you did, then it is natural to assume that you believe Foster is a slow SAM.

OMG... I just... can't....

This is exactly what I said in my first three posts on this subject: There is absolutely nothing ambiguous here.

1. …not a slower, smaller MLB (Foster) who would sit on the bench for 5 years because our All Pro at that position is only 26 years old.

2. …again, we have Wagner and KJ Wright... what we need is that Strongside guy that occasionally pick up a WR in the same way that KJ handles tight ends at times.

3. I said that he'd (Foster) backup Wagner, and that is the entire point of my freaking post. He'd play MLB well in Seattle's scheme, but Wagner is only 26. Which means that by drafting Foster you'd get a player who would fill in for an injured Wagner, but the rest of the time you'd be struggling to find a place for him. Foster wouldn't help the Seahawks unless Wagner or Wright went down,

How many different freaking ways must I say : "We need a SS/SAM and Foster is a WILL/MIKE"

DJrmb wrote:

49ers draft pick Reuben Foster’s offseason shoulder surgery reportedly ‘didn’t take’

When Alabama linebacker Reuben Foster dropped from a potential top 10 pick all the way to the tail end of the first round of the 2017 NFL Draft, it appeared his failed drug test and hasty ejection from the Combine were to blame. Instead, the real culprit may be a bum shoulder.

Foster had surgery to repair a torn rotator cuff after Alabama’s season came to a close. However, reports suggest the procedure “didn’t take,” which may force the dynamic defender to go under the knife in the near future to correct it. Standard rotator cuff repairs can take between four to six months to fully recover from, a timeline that could put the first half of Foster’s rookie season in jeopardy.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2017/5/3/15534678/49ers-draft-pick-reuben-foster-offseason-shoulder-surgery-didnt-take

John Clayton on 710 ESPN also just reported that GM John Lynch did not know about the full extent of the shoulder issue when they traded up to draft him, however other teams did. I seem to remember a few here thinking Lynch got one over on Schneider in that trade up for Foster. This, if true, may point more to the other John doing the schooling...

[note]
I have not seen it reported anywhere else online that SF didn't know about Foster's shoulder surgery "not taking". I can not confirm that as fact, but maybe just speculation by Clayton?

Wow. How homerific. LOL.

You just managed to make Schneider the hero.

I have no idea if the shoulder is good or not, but the 49ers were completely aware of the shoulder issue. They had team doctors look at it several times at Stanford. Does that mean its perfectly fine? No, it doesn't. It means that some team doctors thought he'd need another procedure and other team doctors believed he wouldn't.

Either way, last year two very, very good LBs were taken with much more severe and career threatening injuries only a few picks later in the draft. Foster was going to be gone at 32 if the 49ers didn't move up to 31. I'm never going to say anything negative about Schneider, but trying to paint this as him schooling them is particularly funny.

Even if he redshirts the season is was MORE than worth it.

DJrmb wrote:

49ers draft pick Reuben Foster’s offseason shoulder surgery reportedly ‘didn’t take’

When Alabama linebacker Reuben Foster dropped from a potential top 10 pick all the way to the tail end of the first round of the 2017 NFL Draft, it appeared his failed drug test and hasty ejection from the Combine were to blame. Instead, the real culprit may be a bum shoulder.

Foster had surgery to repair a torn rotator cuff after Alabama’s season came to a close. However, reports suggest the procedure “didn’t take,” which may force the dynamic defender to go under the knife in the near future to correct it. Standard rotator cuff repairs can take between four to six months to fully recover from, a timeline that could put the first half of Foster’s rookie season in jeopardy.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2017/5/3/15534678/49ers-draft-pick-reuben-foster-offseason-shoulder-surgery-didnt-take

John Clayton on 710 ESPN also just reported that GM John Lynch did not know about the full extent of the shoulder issue when they traded up to draft him, however other teams did. I seem to remember a few here thinking Lynch got one over on Schneider in that trade up for Foster. This, if true, may point more to the other John doing the schooling...

[note]
I have not seen it reported anywhere else online that SF didn't know about Foster's shoulder surgery "not taking". I can not confirm that as fact, but maybe just speculation by Clayton?

UPDATE:

Maybe he re-injures it and either way he still might bust, but "Reuben Foster fully cleared for training camp"

https://www.ninersnation.com/2017/7/27/ ... ining-camp