Spring League

UK_Seahawk · May 8, 2017

Anyone know anything about it? What teams are in it, is it any good, how does it work etc?

I literally had heard nothing about it until today when I was reading an article on PFT.

I know I could just use google but I thought it might be interesting to start a thread about the merits (or lack thereof) of a developmental league. I think it they are a good idea, can we get NFL Europe back?

Popeyejones · May 8, 2017

I head about it the same way you did, and like you, didn't know it existed before that article.

I don't think this is the one, but a developmental league played during the off-season (and actually affiliated with the NFL) needs to return.

A return of NFL Europe -- or even better, a North American division in Mexico, Canada, and smaller US markets paired with a European division -- would be a great idea.

The NFL nixed NFL Europa because they were losing money on it -- they claimed it operated about 30 million a year in the red.

That's shortsighted and dumb, though. Most minor league baseball teams lose money for their clubs, and 10 years in the NBA developmental league still loses money. Developmental leagues exist to improve the quality of play in the main product, and as a form of fan relations in small and emerging markets.

If that 30 million a year figure is true, basically, it means that the NFL could have NFL Europa for less than the cost of Roger Goodell's annual salary.

It's a huge long-term mistake in the part of the NFL IMO, but the NFL is definitely no stranger to making long-term mistakes.

Maulbert · May 8, 2017

Popeyejones":3gg5ovxv said:
I head about it the same way you did, and like you, didn't know it existed before that article.

I don't think this is the one, but a developmental league played during the off-season (and actually affiliated with the NFL) needs to return.

A return of NFL Europe -- or even better, a North American division in Mexico, Canada, and smaller US markets paired with a European division -- would be a great idea.

The NFL nixed NFL Europa because they were losing money on it -- they claimed it operated about 30 million a year in the red.

That's shortsighted and dumb, though. Most minor league baseball teams lose money for their clubs, and 10 years in the NBA developmental league still loses money. Developmental leagues exist to improve the quality of play in the main product, and as a form of fan relations in small and emerging markets.

If that 30 million a year figure is true, basically, it means that the NFL could have NFL Europa for less than the cost of Roger Goodell's annual salary.

It's a huge long-term mistake in the part of the NFL IMO, but the NFL is definitely no stranger to making long-term mistakes.

The CFL would never allow an NFL development league in Canada. If I recall right, there was a time they were trying to legally block the NFL from placing a franchise in Canada.

RiverDog · May 8, 2017

With all the medical issues surrounding football, in particular concussions, I would be very surprised of any football league, professional, semi pro, or otherwise, ever gets off the ground, either in this country or overseas. I certainly wouldn't want to invest very much money in such a venture.

For at least the past 50 years, football has been shrinking in terms of number of participants. It used to be that every college and most community colleges had football teams. Now a minority of them do. The sport is going the way of boxing.

TransGenderHawkFan · May 9, 2017

RiverDog":1xxr23qi said:
With all the medical issues surrounding football, in particular concussions, I would be very surprised of any football league, professional, semi pro, or otherwise, ever gets off the ground, either in this country or overseas. I certainly wouldn't want to invest very much money in such a venture.

For at least the past 50 years, football has been shrinking in terms of number of participants. It used to be that every college and most community colleges had football teams. Now a minority of them do. The sport is going the way of boxing.

The numbers dwindled because of operating budgets, not a lack of participants. There is some drop off in participation, but not enough to kill the sport.

A minority of colleges have football teams now? In what alternate universe are you living in?

RiverDog · May 9, 2017

TransGenderHawkFan":j44qb7qm said:
RiverDog":j44qb7qm said:

With all the medical issues surrounding football, in particular concussions, I would be very surprised of any football league, professional, semi pro, or otherwise, ever gets off the ground, either in this country or overseas. I certainly wouldn't want to invest very much money in such a venture.

For at least the past 50 years, football has been shrinking in terms of number of participants. It used to be that every college and most community colleges had football teams. Now a minority of them do. The sport is going the way of boxing.

Click to expand...

The numbers dwindled because of operating budgets, not a lack of participants. There is some drop off in participation, but not enough to kill the sport.

A minority of colleges have football teams now? In what alternate universe are you living in?

Taking an unscientific, seat of the pants count and using the State of Washington as an example, there are 6 four year state colleges, of which 4 play football. Evergreen never has fielded a football team and Western recently canceled their program.

There are 9 other private colleges within the state with other sports programs (eliminating the DeVry institutes and what not). Pacific Lutheran, U of Puget Sound, and Whitworth play football, the others, such as Gonzaga, Whitman, Walla Walla University, St. Martin's, Seattle U, Seattle Pacific don't. 3 out of 9 play football. Add in the state colleges and out of 15 of them, 7 play football, or slightly less than 50%.

But then you toss in the community colleges, of which none of them field football teams anymore. Back in my day, ie early 70's, there was at least 9 teams in a two state league that played football. Now none of them do. I'm not sure exactly how many community colleges we have in the state, but when you factor them into the equation, there is substantially less than 50% legitimate 4 year colleges/universities and community colleges that don't offer football.

There are several reasons why participation is down, including budgets, legal risks, and Title IX. But the fact is that there are much fewer participants in college football today than there was 40 years ago.

Seahawkfan80 · May 9, 2017

Adding to the College discussion....College of Idaho in Caldwell had a Football team back in the 60s 70s...But cancelled it before I got here in 86. They have reinstalled that program as of last year. The stadium is about 100 yds away from the College across 2 main one way roads. Tis called Simplot Stadium. They do a LOT of local football and other sports games there.

Popeyejones · May 9, 2017

Maulbert":32o3dh5v said:
The CFL would never allow an NFL development league in Canada. If I recall right, there was a time they were trying to legally block the NFL from placing a franchise in Canada.

I don't think it's really up to the CFL.

Most likely I think -- and something that would actually be good for the CFL -- is to enter into a partnership with the NFL to basically be the developmental Spring league for the NFL.

The CFL is living off its TSN deal these days, but attendance has been dropping for years now.

With the CFL you already have the 9 established teams in 9 established markets, and then you pair that by re-instituting the 9 NFL Europe teams and you're ready to go. The only inter-continental travel would be the Super Bowl between the continents. You even keep CFL as the conference name or as the entity that squares off against the EFL at the end of the season.

RiverDog · May 9, 2017

Seahawkfan80":18mlttzq said:
Adding to the College discussion....College of Idaho in Caldwell had a Football team back in the 60s 70s...But cancelled it before I got here in 86. They have reinstalled that program as of last year. The stadium is about 100 yds away from the College across 2 main one way roads. Tis called Simplot Stadium. They do a LOT of local football and other sports games there.

Re-starting a football program is a rarity. Whitman canceled theirs in the 70's, Gonzaga in the 50's. Western Washington recently canceled theirs. All of the once robust community college football programs in WA was wiped out in the 70's-80's. Walla Walla CC was the last one, couldn't find anyone to play except for a few teams in CA and WSU and Eastern JV teams.

ctrcat · May 10, 2017

RiverDog":1q6woi34 said:
TransGenderHawkFan":1q6woi34 said:

RiverDog":1q6woi34 said:

With all the medical issues surrounding football, in particular concussions, I would be very surprised of any football league, professional, semi pro, or otherwise, ever gets off the ground, either in this country or overseas. I certainly wouldn't want to invest very much money in such a venture.

For at least the past 50 years, football has been shrinking in terms of number of participants. It used to be that every college and most community colleges had football teams. Now a minority of them do. The sport is going the way of boxing.

Click to expand...

The numbers dwindled because of operating budgets, not a lack of participants. There is some drop off in participation, but not enough to kill the sport.

A minority of colleges have football teams now? In what alternate universe are you living in?

Click to expand...

Taking an unscientific, seat of the pants count and using the State of Washington as an example, there are 6 four year state colleges, of which 4 play football. Evergreen never has fielded a football team and Western recently canceled their program.

There are 9 other private colleges within the state with other sports programs (eliminating the DeVry institutes and what not). Pacific Lutheran, U of Puget Sound, and Whitworth play football, the others, such as Gonzaga, Whitman, Walla Walla University, St. Martin's, Seattle U, Seattle Pacific don't. 3 out of 9 play football. Add in the state colleges and out of 15 of them, 7 play football, or slightly less than 50%.

But then you toss in the community colleges, of which none of them field football teams anymore. Back in my day, ie early 70's, there was at least 9 teams in a two state league that played football. Now none of them do. I'm not sure exactly how many community colleges we have in the state, but when you factor them into the equation, there is substantially less than 50% legitimate 4 year colleges/universities and community colleges that don't offer football.

There are several reasons why participation is down, including budgets, legal risks, and Title IX. But the fact is that there are much fewer participants in college football today than there was 40 years ago.

I do not have more detailed data myself, but I was very curious since Charlotte (formerly UNCC, a once respected mid-major basketball program with a Final 4 on its resume) took up football in 2013 for the first time. Larry Ogunjobi was the 65th overall pick this year and their first drafted player. A quick search found they weren't the only ones. http://www.sbnation.com/college-footbal ... ball-teams

A further, more detailed nationwide breakdown would be interesting.

Maulbert · May 10, 2017

ctrcat":y0pw79do said:
RiverDog":y0pw79do said:

TransGenderHawkFan":y0pw79do said:

RiverDog":y0pw79do said:

With all the medical issues surrounding football, in particular concussions, I would be very surprised of any football league, professional, semi pro, or otherwise, ever gets off the ground, either in this country or overseas. I certainly wouldn't want to invest very much money in such a venture.

For at least the past 50 years, football has been shrinking in terms of number of participants. It used to be that every college and most community colleges had football teams. Now a minority of them do. The sport is going the way of boxing.

Click to expand...

The numbers dwindled because of operating budgets, not a lack of participants. There is some drop off in participation, but not enough to kill the sport.

A minority of colleges have football teams now? In what alternate universe are you living in?

Click to expand...

Taking an unscientific, seat of the pants count and using the State of Washington as an example, there are 6 four year state colleges, of which 4 play football. Evergreen never has fielded a football team and Western recently canceled their program.

There are 9 other private colleges within the state with other sports programs (eliminating the DeVry institutes and what not). Pacific Lutheran, U of Puget Sound, and Whitworth play football, the others, such as Gonzaga, Whitman, Walla Walla University, St. Martin's, Seattle U, Seattle Pacific don't. 3 out of 9 play football. Add in the state colleges and out of 15 of them, 7 play football, or slightly less than 50%.

But then you toss in the community colleges, of which none of them field football teams anymore. Back in my day, ie early 70's, there was at least 9 teams in a two state league that played football. Now none of them do. I'm not sure exactly how many community colleges we have in the state, but when you factor them into the equation, there is substantially less than 50% legitimate 4 year colleges/universities and community colleges that don't offer football.

There are several reasons why participation is down, including budgets, legal risks, and Title IX. But the fact is that there are much fewer participants in college football today than there was 40 years ago.

Click to expand...

I do not have more detailed data myself, but I was very curious since Charlotte (formerly UNCC, a once respected mid-major basketball program with a Final 4 on its resume) took up football in 2013 for the first time. Larry Ogunjobi was the 65th overall pick this year and their first drafted player. A quick search found they weren't the only ones. http://www.sbnation.com/college-footbal ... ball-teams

A further, more detailed nationwide breakdown would be interesting.

South Florida started a football program in 1997. By 2001, they had 3 straight players taken in the NFL Draft at the top of the 4th round. By 2007, they were ranked 2nd in the country in Division I in the Bowl subdivision.

RiverDog · May 15, 2017

Here's a list of D1 colleges that recently dropped football since the turn of the century:

University of Alabama-Birmingham (2014)
Cal State-Northridge (2001)
Canisius (2002)
Hofstra (2009)
Iona (2008)
St. John's (2002)
Siena (2003)
St. Mary's, CA (2003)
St. Peters (2006)
Fairfield (2002)
La Salle (2007)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_d ... ball_teams

Keep in mind that is just D1 schools and just since 2000. It does not take into account D1-AA (FCS), D2, D3, NAIA, or community colleges.

mrt144 · May 15, 2017

RiverDog":1zxzonpa said:
With all the medical issues surrounding football, in particular concussions, I would be very surprised of any football league, professional, semi pro, or otherwise, ever gets off the ground, either in this country or overseas. I certainly wouldn't want to invest very much money in such a venture.

For at least the past 50 years, football has been shrinking in terms of number of participants. It used to be that every college and most community colleges had football teams. Now a minority of them do. The sport is going the way of boxing.

That might be more related to the explosion of colleges.

Grahamhawker · May 15, 2017

RiverDog":37utjy0j said:
But then you toss in the community colleges, of which none of them field football teams anymore. Back in my day, ie early 70's, there was at least 9 teams in a two state league that played football. Now none of them do. I'm not sure exactly how many community colleges we have in the state, but when you factor them into the equation, there is substantially less than 50% legitimate 4 year colleges/universities and community colleges that don't offer football.

There are community colleges with football programs in Washington State, albeit few.

My son plays for the Central Sound Warhawks, which represents a conglomeration of CCs in the area. It is basically a self-supporting program- but the players have to be enrolled in classes. They play Everett CC, Eastside CC, Lewis & Clark College, and several area D3 teams.

RiverDog · May 16, 2017

Grahamhawker":20py92pe said:
RiverDog":20py92pe said:

But then you toss in the community colleges, of which none of them field football teams anymore. Back in my day, ie early 70's, there was at least 9 teams in a two state league that played football. Now none of them do. I'm not sure exactly how many community colleges we have in the state, but when you factor them into the equation, there is substantially less than 50% legitimate 4 year colleges/universities and community colleges that don't offer football.

Click to expand...

There are community colleges with football programs in Washington State, albeit few.

My son plays for the Central Sound Warhawks, which represents a conglomeration of CCs in the area. It is basically a self-supporting program- but the players have to be enrolled in classes. They play Everett CC, Eastside CC, Lewis & Clark College, and several area D3 teams.

Interesting. Thanks for the information.

Growing up in Walla Walla during the 60's-70's, my Saturdays almost always included a college football game, sometimes two. Whitman College played in the Northwest Conference with PLU, Linfield, Lewis & Clark, Pacific University, Willamette, and College of Idaho while Walla Walla CC played in a league with Spokane Falls, Yakima, CBC, Wenatchee, Everett, Grays Harbor, Mt. Hood, and Clackamus. Of course, we didn't have nearly as many entertainment options back then as kids do nowadays.

Spring League

UK_Seahawk

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Popeyejones

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Maulbert

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RiverDog

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TransGenderHawkFan

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RiverDog

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Seahawkfan80

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Popeyejones

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RiverDog

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ctrcat

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Maulbert

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RiverDog

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mrt144

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Grahamhawker

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RiverDog

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