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Sorry for another Kaeperncick article MMQB nails it

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  • The notion that he is worse than 15 BACKUP QBs, (which was subjective without any actual backup) regardless of what number of throws he leaves on the field, is a joke. If we look at the one place where the "author" is using data it is the TD-INT ratings. Normally we would look at QB rating as the more relevant way to judge a QB.

    "Kaepernick’s passer rating, TD-INT ratio, sack rating and yards per attempt declined steadily from 2013–15.
    Last season’s statistical rebound was mostly artificial."

    TD-INT rate
    2013: 21-8
    2014: 19-10
    2015: 6-5 (244 attempts only)
    2016: 16-4

    Rating
    2013: 91.6
    2014: 86.4
    2015: 78.5
    2016: 90.7

    Rating compared to other QBs:

    2013: 20th
    2014: 17th (does not fit the narrative that he got worse)
    2015: 34th - worst season by FAR
    2016: 26th (includes 1 game by Chase Daniels so really 25th)

    http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats? ... &Submit=Go

    At the end the "author" compares to Tebow

    A guy that in 2010 was ranked 44th in his QB rating and yes managed to get to 31st in 2011 on a playoff team. When Kaepernick was on a playoff team he was ranked 20th and 17th so "slightly" better
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  • The only ones I see arguments for are Garoppolo, Foles, McCarron, Kessler.

    Also, he didn't list Austin Davis as being better than Kaepernick.
    Last edited by massari on Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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  • Benoit is a film guy like Greg Cosell and goes into the issues beyond the pure stats. His assessment of Kaepernick is pretty accurate IMO.

    The 15 backups is a subjective one but it also got me thinking. A huge role of the backup QB is to run the upcoming opponents offense and simulate the game situations. A QB who cannot really play from the pocket is a liability in that regard unless you are playing the Bills I guess.
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  • Excellent article. :2thumbs:

    We see fastball artist try and get by with only one club in their bag. Although a few make a career of it, most don't. Randy Johnson got enough opportunities over the years to finally made it big time in his sport. John Elway leaned on his fastball and one man show until one day the light came on. But, there are many ..... many who don't fair as well.

    Kaepernick may have used up his opportunities a couple years ago. After all, professional leagues figure out those who fail to learn and grow their game. After which, the competition runs most of them out of the league.
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  • More likely with Kaep it came down to cap. If he believes he is still an NFL starter then he is not likely to accept a league minimum contract that fits under a team's salary cap in order to be a backup. This is kind of ironic seeing as his publicity stunt helped turn down viewership numbers that affect cap increases.
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  • Jville wrote:Excellent article. :2thumbs:

    We see fastball artist try and get by with only one club in their bag. Although a few make a career of it, most don't. Randy Johnson got enough opportunities over the years to finally made it big time in his sport. John Elway leaned on his fastball and one man show until one day the light came on. But, there are many ..... many who don't fair as well.

    Kaepernick may have used up his opportunities a couple years ago. After all, professional leagues figure out those who fail to learn and grow their game. After which, the competition runs most of them out of the league.

    Randy Johnson isnt a good comp. He had 2 clubs in his bag. The heater and Mr. Snappy, one of the best sliders in MLB history. But....... I get what you are trying to say.
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  • http://deadspin.com/the-nfl-machine-has-finally-beaten-colin-kaepernick-1795900410

    A better article.

    Andy Benoit's article is an absurd piece of subjective journalism. It also masks what may be a very disturbing story: the blackballing of an NFL player because he made a political statement (albeit a mild one) before a football game.

    People should be far more concerned about what Kaep's story reflects about the NFL (and its fans) then debating whether he is a better QB than Matt Moore, Chad Henne, Matt Barkley (i mean some of the names he chooses are so ridiculous you have to assume he's just trying to get people going).

    If people truly put their pettiness behind and could care less about standing or kneeling for the anthem before games (his personal choice.. and who cares what one person does, it's the product of this nation's foundation) then it would not be hard to see that he's a starter in this league for 15 teams, not worse than 15 other's backups.

    That's what the story is here. Trying to hide it behind this idiot's subjective argument that he's worse than a cavalcade of HS gym teachers is dumb.

    But whatever... FOOTBALL!!!!!!!
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  • ^^^^^^^^^

    It's not a newsflash that the NFL is about money and power. It's a billionaires club and no one is entitled to play in their league. Right or wrong, what he did was largely unpopular with a lot of fans and sponsors.

    That said, one absolute truth is that if you can play, they will find a way to get you in whether you are a domestic abuser, have substance abuse issues, legal troubles, etc.

    Benoit and others are pointing out that the play part of the equation is a huge factor in while crickets are chirping for Kaepernick. The fact that he comes with intense media scrutiny and potential fan/sponsor backlash (money impact because owners really don't care what fans think) only makes it an easier decision to avoid him.

    Do you know where PFF ranked Kaepernick last year even with his good stats? 29th of 32 ahead of Goff, Fitzpatrick, and Osweiler.

    29. Colin Kaepernick, San Francisco 49ers

    2016 overall grade: 52.2

    Kaepernick has performed at a slightly better level than last year, still not instilling confidence that he’s back on track to be a long-term starter in the league. He ranks 33rd in adjusted completion percentage at 68.1 percent and his 92.6 passer rating from a clean pocket ranks 29th in the league.

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-ra ... is-season/

    This idea that he's only be held back because of the anthem protest is not true. His play is a factor and even more so if you consider that the #2 QB really needs to simulate conventional offenses and he doesn't.
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  • A. PFF? really? And exploring that further he's listed anywhere from as high as 15 to as low as 25 in any rankings I pull up.. as a starter.

    2. He is being held back. It is alarmingly true. And the idea that he is being compared to the likes of the Qbs in the article as somehow below them show the level of absurdity people are willing to throw at this. Should teams be throwing themselves at his door? No, absolutely not. He's an average (to below) QB. But this is more.

    The crickets are telling. His level of play is a shield to some rather questionable behavior. We've seen players with far more baggage and far less to offer be snatched up by teams. So no, Benoit (and PFF? really?) did not "nail" this story. They took one step more in burying the lede.

    Hell, compare this to Vick...
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  • Uncle Si wrote:http://deadspin.com/the-nfl-machine-has-finally-beaten-colin-kaepernick-1795900410

    A better article.

    Andy Benoit's article is an absurd piece of subjective journalism. It also masks what may be a very disturbing story: the blackballing of an NFL player because he made a political statement (albeit a mild one) before a football game.

    People should be far more concerned about what Kaep's story reflects about the NFL (and its fans) then debating whether he is a better QB than Matt Moore, Chad Henne, Matt Barkley (i mean some of the names he chooses are so ridiculous you have to assume he's just trying to get people going).

    If people truly put their pettiness behind and could care less about standing or kneeling for the anthem before games (his personal choice.. and who cares what one person does, it's the product of this nation's foundation) then it would not be hard to see that he's a starter in this league for 15 teams, not worse than 15 other's backups.

    That's what the story is here. Trying to hide it behind this idiot's subjective argument that he's worse than a cavalcade of HS gym teachers is dumb.

    But whatever... FOOTBALL!!!!!!!


    Well said Si, but this is nothing new with pro sports.

    Choose whatever loudmouth disruptive player, personally, socially or politically you want and I'll show you that at some point in that player's career, their nonsense factor outweighed their talent...........thus sending them to the scrap heap.

    T.O., Ocho Cinco, even our very own Marshawn. Now Kaepernick. His disruption just happens to be political.

    Yes there is certainly an undertone of blackballing going on here with some antiquated old guard owners, organizations and fan bases. But that is known, and has ALWAYS been known.

    This misstep here is on Kaepernick. Any employee working for any company needs to constantly be taking the temperature of their worth to the company and overall industry. So they know EXACTLY where they stand. Kaepernick didn't correctly take that temperature to know that his current talent level wasn't going to outweigh the ill will towards what he did and the disruption he'd bring.

    Sorry, but no backup QB is worth that.
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  • It's not absurd to point out that he's not very good and that's a big part of his situation.

    PFF isn't perfect but it also correlates with Football Outsiders (he was 30th in DYAR). This is where the metrics support the contention that he's got significant issues in terms of play execution, pocket passing, general accuracy).

    And I get what Benoit is saying as far as backups as it's largely based on those playing deficiencies. If you play him, you have to change the offense to fit his skills and scrap a majority of the playbook. If he's the backup, he doesn't fit being able to play the scout team's offense well for your defense. He's physically more talented than a lot of guys but that doesn't make him a better QB and ironically he's probably better suited to start than be a 2 because of his skill sets.

    The fact he has the aftermath of the protest noise as well as the intense media attention absolutely doesn't help.

    As for the Vick comparison, Reid was the only one that was willing to give him a chance. And he also had a ton of the same issues Kaepernick does on the field. He never was able to sustain success over an extended period of time.

    If Roethlisberger wasn't able to play, he would have been left to die on the vine too.
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  • You're missing a much bigger picture here. And maybe that's fine..

    He's not very good, and that is part of the situation. I do not believe it is bigger than the other part of the situation is though. We certainly recognize the factors working against him, we just have the weighted differently.
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  • Uncle Si wrote:You're missing a much bigger picture here. And maybe that's fine..

    He's not very good, and that is part of the situation. I do not believe it is bigger than the other part of the situation is though. We certainly recognize the factors working against him, we just have the weighted differently.


    It's everything, and yes we can debate degrees or percentages.

    My point is if a player wants to take any stand, politically or socially............THEY have to measure what the long term affects on their career is/will be.

    It's like with Kathy Griffin, any statement fair or not is going to have consequences. You can't cry foul if you've thought out the consequences of your actions.

    Kaepernick did his thing because he felt strongly about it, more power to him. But that doesn't mean the world is all of a sudden going to right itself.
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  • Uncle Si wrote:You're missing a much bigger picture here. And maybe that's fine..

    He's not very good, and that is part of the situation. I do not believe it is bigger than the other part of the situation is though. We certainly recognize the factors working against him, we just have the weighted differently.


    To me, the talent/ability weight has been proven to be the main factor in whether controversial players get signed or not. If Kaepernick could play QB at a high level, I have no doubt that he'd have a job somewhere in the NFL. When you cannot play the talent card, it's much easier to not sign him and avoid the noise that comes with it.

    There are countless examples of whether the juice is worth the squeeze. Greg Hardy comes to mind. Dirtball yet Dallas signed him because he could rush the passer. Only he couldn't so he was one and done and out of the league since.

    Teams are not going to go through the media frenzy and potential fan/sponsor backlash for a mediocre player. The same applies for most businesses.
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  • Look at the Seahawks of recent years. They put up with a lot of Marshawn stuff because he was a stud. Same with some of the stuff Bennett and Sherman do and say.

    It's like the old Jimmy Johnson story with the Cowboys.

    "I can't be writing what the rules are because my rules vary from player to player. It's like I told Lawrence: In Dallas we had a linebacker named John Roper who got cut for falling asleep in a meeting. If Troy Aikman fell asleep in a meeting, I'd go over and whisper, `Wake up, Troy.' "

    That's the NFL in a nutshell and it's the same today as it was in 1992.
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  • In Benoit's defense he's always been insanely low on Kaepernick, but that he's worse than half the backups in the league is ridiculous.

    To convince me of Benoit's point, you'd have to convince me that Colin Kaepernick is considerably worse than the backup QBs who have actually been signed this off-season, which is just laughable.

    People really want to argue he's worse than ALL OF Aaron Murray, David Fales, Kellen Moore, EJ Manuel, Matt McGloin, TJ Yates, Austin Davis, Chase Daniel, Blaine Gabbert, Josh Johnson, Geno Smith, Mark Sanchez, Case Keenum, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Matt Barkley, Landry Jones, Josh McCown, and Nick Foles?

    Sorry, but at the end of the day you can take any measurement of quarterbacks you want and save for Nick Foles' one great year five years ago this is a list of 18 guys who have never even gotten close to sniffing Kaepernick's jock strap.

    I'm fine with pointing out Kaepernick's flaws, but if you want to talk about his flaws as a player, you have to talk about the players who are being signed ahead of him. That he's somewhere worse than ALL OF these guys (let alone any of them) is simply laughable.
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  • JTB wrote:
    That's the NFL in a nutshell and it's the same today as it was in 1992.


    Isn't this why people watch sports? It's the ultimate meritocracy.

    If you're good, we'll put up with just about anything you say or do. If you're mediocre or bad, you're out.
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  • Popeyejones wrote:In Benoit's defense he's always been insanely low on Kaepernick, but that he's worse than half the backups in the league is ridiculous.

    To convince me of Benoit's point, you'd have to convince me that Colin Kaepernick is considerably worse than the backup QBs who have actually been signed this off-season, which is just laughable.

    People really want to argue he's worse than ALL OF Aaron Murray, David Fales, Kellen Moore, EJ Manuel, Matt McGloin, TJ Yates, Austin Davis, Chase Daniel, Blaine Gabbert, Josh Johnson, Geno Smith, Mark Sanchez, Case Keenum, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Matt Barkley, Landry Jones, Josh McCown, and Nick Foles?

    Sorry, but at the end of the day you can take any measurement of quarterbacks you want and save for Nick Foles' one great year five years ago this is a list of 18 guys who have never even gotten close to sniffing Kaepernick's jock strap.

    I'm fine with pointing out Kaepernick's flaws, but if you want to talk about his flaws as a player, you have to talk about the players who are being signed ahead of him. That he's somewhere worse than ALL OF these guys (let alone any of them) is simply laughable.


    Only 5 of those guys were on Benoit's list and he clearly states that his evaluation is based on the ability to play from the pocket in a conventional offense. In addition, I'd point out that a lot of the guys that have signed are competing for a job and at the veteran minimum salary. We still don't know what Kaepernick is looking for contract wise.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    JTB wrote:
    That's the NFL in a nutshell and it's the same today as it was in 1992.


    Isn't this why people watch sports? It's the ultimate meritocracy.

    If you're good, we'll put up with just about anything you say or do. If you're mediocre or bad, you're out.


    Which makes no sense in reference to Kaep. But seem really want it to be simply about his play.

    The two don't add up, no matter what numbers are used.
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  • Uncle Si wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    JTB wrote:
    That's the NFL in a nutshell and it's the same today as it was in 1992.


    Isn't this why people watch sports? It's the ultimate meritocracy.

    If you're good, we'll put up with just about anything you say or do. If you're mediocre or bad, you're out.


    Which makes no sense in reference to Kaep. But seem really want it to be simply about his play.

    The two don't add up, no matter what numbers are used.


    I said if you're mediocre or bad, you're out.

    Kaepernick's play hasn't been good for over two years. Not terrible, but certainly not great either.

    Throw in the distraction factor and not sure why everyone's shocked no one's signed him yet. SF didn't think his distraction was worth it as a starter, teams certainly aren't going to bend over backwards to sign him as a backup.

    I do think he'll sign somewhere once the season starts and QB's start getting hurt.
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  • Uncle Si wrote:You're missing a much bigger picture here. And maybe that's fine..

    He's not very good, and that is part of the situation. I do not believe it is bigger than the other part of the situation is though. We certainly recognize the factors working against him, we just have the weighted differently.

    He's not good enough to be a starter but he evidently wants to be paid higher than a back up. Teams have to work within a salary cap and most teams can't pay two starters especially if they have other options. In a way Kaep is a victim of his own protests though. His actions helped foster a movement that did cause some fringe viewers to tune out the NFL and dropping viewership numbers affect advertising dollars and ultimately help the NFL set the annual Cap limites. A lower cap means teams can't spend as liberally as they would like and I'm sure some team that would have liked him as a backup could not afford him.
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  • brimsalabim wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:You're missing a much bigger picture here. And maybe that's fine..

    He's not very good, and that is part of the situation. I do not believe it is bigger than the other part of the situation is though. We certainly recognize the factors working against him, we just have the weighted differently.

    He's not good enough to be a starter but he evidently wants to be paid higher than a back up. Teams have to work within a salary cap and most teams can't pay two starters especially if they have other options. In a way Kaep is a victim of his own protests though. His actions helped foster a movement that did cause some fringe viewers to tune out the NFL and dropping viewership numbers affect advertising dollars and ultimately help the NFL set the annual Cap limites. A lower cap means teams can't spend as liberally as they would like and I'm sure some team that would have liked him as a backup could not afford him.



    I agree here.

    However, noone really knows what he's asking, or how far off a team would be, because outside of PC and the Hawks, noone has shown even the slightest interest in him. That's discerning.
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  • For the record, the anthem kneel-down wasn't the only politically charged action he took. Remember the presser he had wearing the pro-Castro shirt? Also, him at practice with the those socks that depicted cops as pigs? I agree with the majority here that his services aren't wanted because he's just not that good, but his particular beliefs didn't help.
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  • His beliefs/actions would be conveniently ignored if he was a high caliber QB. The NFL has proved that time and time again.

    The activist/protest stuff doesn't help him at all but the driving factor is his limitations at QB and the sacrifices a team has to make schematically to accommodate him. RGIII is getting the exact same treatment.

    It also doesn't help that the offensive guru HC at SF, who had experience running a scheme with a player very much like him in RGIII. opted to go with Brian Hoyer and Matt Barkley as opposed to trying to make it work with Kaepernick. This on the heels of having the prior two head coaches (Tomasula and Kelly) bench him for Blaine Gabbert.
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  • JTB wrote:His beliefs/actions would be conveniently ignored if he was a high caliber QB. The NFL has proved that time and time again.

    The activist/protest stuff doesn't help him at all but the driving factor is his limitations at QB and the sacrifices a team has to make schematically to accommodate him. RGIII is getting the exact same treatment.

    It also doesn't help that the offensive guru HC at SF, who had experience running a scheme with a player very much like him in RGIII. opted to go with Brian Hoyer and Matt Barkley as opposed to trying to make it work with Kaepernick. This on the heels of having the prior two head coaches (Tomasula and Kelly) bench him for Blaine Gabbert.


    I think we're all saying the same thing, what I gather is Si thinks it has more do with the blackballing than some of us do.

    Certainly that's playing into it, but IMO it's far more about Kaepernick's skills. He's a very specific style of QB, with very few teams that'd remotely be considered a good fit. You don't bring in a one read option style running QB if you run a pro style drop back progression offense, which is 90% of the league.
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  • Sports Hernia wrote:
    Jville wrote:Excellent article. :2thumbs:

    We see fastball artist try and get by with only one club in their bag. Although a few make a career of it, most don't. Randy Johnson got enough opportunities over the years to finally made it big time in his sport. John Elway leaned on his fastball and one man show until one day the light came on. But, there are many ..... many who don't fair as well.

    Kaepernick may have used up his opportunities a couple years ago. After all, professional leagues figure out those who fail to learn and grow their game. After which, the competition runs most of them out of the league.

    Randy Johnson isnt a good comp. He had 2 clubs in his bag. The heater and Mr. Snappy, one of the best sliders in MLB history. But....... I get what you are trying to say.


    Your right ...... that hard wicked slider was a second club. So it really did take a second club. Even in the case of the greatest wood chopper in MLB history.

    And of course, Elway eventually learned how to take a lot off his fastball and throw some nice touch passes to complement his fast ball in the later days of his career. So John eventually had another club as well.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:I think we're all saying the same thing, what I gather is Si thinks it has more do with the blackballing than some of us do.

    Certainly that's playing into it, but IMO it's far more about Kaepernick's skills. He's a very specific style of QB, with very few teams that'd remotely be considered a good fit. You don't bring in a one read option style running QB if you run a pro style drop back progression offense, which is 90% of the league.


    I think the market value of RGIII illustrates how ability is the driver on this. The same flaws that RGIII has in his game are in play for Kaepernick too. The noise with CK sure doesn't help but I'd think he'd be in the same basic situation as RGIII given the accommodations a team has to do schematically for that skill set and for scout team prep for the opposing teams during the week.
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  • It's obviously to me that Pete didn't like where his head was at. If Kap had shown any self awareness Pete would have signed him.

    But this is not about Kap's faux politics, and it never has been. People call Wilson fake, but there is no bigger fake in the NFL than Kap. People are acting like he's Marshawn Lynch, some guy from the streets of Oakland, who grew up with the cards stacked against him, or say, Richard Sherman who's from Compton and lost friends to gang violence.
    He pretends to be 'street', but it's not who he is, it's an adopted fashion style he chooses.. The real CK was raised by a white family in a wealthy California suburb noted for having lots and lots of churches. The real heart of Colin Kaepernick is not oppressed "woke" African American, rather it's "privileged yuppie square".

    And that's the issue -- he's an adapter, not a leader. He doesn't do well unless he has someone riding him every minute of every day. Someone like Harbaugh who's damn near a lunatic when involved with his players. He doesn't handle things when they don't go his way, in fact, he makes Cam Newton look gracious in that regard. We've seen the press conferences over the years. He's not a leader, he's someone who adapts to others around him. In fact, his whole drive towards social justice is not from the heart, it's a borrowed opinion from his girlfriend and buddies. They are the ones driving his social beliefs and they just happen to conveniently fit his self mantra at the moment of "poor me", everybody is picking on me. Which is what happens to many many athletes when they hit the limit of what their talent can do. He reminds me of Jeff George or Jay Cutler in that regard.

    In short, he needs to grow up and that's not going to happen if everyone keeps coddling him and telling him there's some grand conspiracy against him.
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  • Plain and simple he is being blackballed because of his stand on politics. He would win you 3/6 games as a back up on a decent team maybe more on a good team. If he did not have his stand he would be signed to a team already.

    A team will come calling with an injury, a team will come calling after game 1 when contracts are not guaranteed.
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  • WmHBonney wrote:
    JTB wrote:I guess he's getting killed on social media because he says Kaepernick isn't very good.

    http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/06/07/coli ... arterbacks



    People don't like to hear the truth.

    Nah it's that people have a lot of emotion invested in him due to his politics.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    JTB wrote:His beliefs/actions would be conveniently ignored if he was a high caliber QB. The NFL has proved that time and time again.

    The activist/protest stuff doesn't help him at all but the driving factor is his limitations at QB and the sacrifices a team has to make schematically to accommodate him. RGIII is getting the exact same treatment.

    It also doesn't help that the offensive guru HC at SF, who had experience running a scheme with a player very much like him in RGIII. opted to go with Brian Hoyer and Matt Barkley as opposed to trying to make it work with Kaepernick. This on the heels of having the prior two head coaches (Tomasula and Kelly) bench him for Blaine Gabbert.


    I think we're all saying the same thing, what I gather is Si thinks it has more do with the blackballing than some of us do.

    Certainly that's playing into it, but IMO it's far more about Kaepernick's skills. He's a very specific style of QB, with very few teams that'd remotely be considered a good fit. You don't bring in a one read option style running QB if you run a pro style drop back progression offense, which is 90% of the league.


    Current teams with similar QBs (off the top of my head):

    Dallas Cowboys (back up just retired, no contact)
    Buffalo Bills (drafted QB with completely different skillset)
    Carolina Panthers (who is their backup?)
    NY Jets (hell, they don't even have a starter right now)
    Seahawks
    Titans

    and I don't want this to turn into a "Marcus Mariota has a better feel for reading Defenses than Kaep" because that is irrelevant. Both are mobile drop back QBs who use that mobility to their advantage. Mariota is obviously better.

    So.. yeah. I think it's more about his stance on politics. Look, we know that NFL teams will look the other way when weighing the fall out of signing someone with transgressions.

    However, this is a national level story. It is polarizing. The NFL is all on in supporting the military and police.

    I don't know why many want to ignore or waive away the very alarming issue with Kaep with a nonchalant dismissal o0f "he's not very good."

    He's not great. But he's a hell of a lot better than what many of you are suggesting, and he's certainly better than the list made by the asshat linked in the article.

    (also: bringing RG3 into this conversation is ludicrous. His injury history and inability to actually move on a football field seems to be discounted for the purpose of this narrative)

    That's my issue. I don't think he's being considered at all, and I think its a grave reflection on what the NFL thinks of its fans.
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  • Uncle Si wrote:
    I don't know why many want to ignore or waive away the very alarming issue with Kaep with a nonchalant dismissal o0f "he's not very good.".


    You're starting to inject too much hyperbole into this conversation Si. Most of us have said we agree with you, we just don't think it's 80% sinister blackballing.

    I'm more in the 30-40% range. This is still the NFL, where rapists, drug abusers, wife beaters and criminals still get 2nd and 3rd chances. So one guy kneeling during the national anthem isn't going to evoke some massive blackballing collusion.

    The facts are yes I bet a LOT of owners, GM's and coaches are pissed off at Kaepernick for what he did.......but in the end if they think he can help their team win for the right price and right situation, they're going to kick those tires.

    I just don't think for the majority of teams, Kaep is a good fit.
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  • I can name 7 teams that Kaep could start for now and it would be an upgrade over what they have right now. If their ownership/FO had a clue, they would be reaching out to him right now. -

    Cleveland Browns - Osweiler is a joke
    LA Rams - Goff?
    Buffalo Bills - Taylor is overrated
    NY Jets - Hackenberg, Petty? Ok...
    Jacksonville Jags - Bortles
    Chicago Bears
    Houston Texans

    Pete was clear after meeting with Kaep that he felt he could be a starter in the league. Which means that money and wanting to play is a huge factor. Signing Davis to the deal he got basically confirms it for me. Kaep can say all he wants about money not being an issue. It's an issue. You don't just go from earning $20M year to under $1M year. No one would do that. He's looking for something in the $5M-$10M/year range. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out. It's not a money issue for Kaep as he's taking a huge cut in pay, it's an issue for teams because they don't want to give that much for a backup. As I mentioned, he can start for a number of teams so he's seeking equivalent value monetarily to be a backup.
    Last edited by hawkfan68 on Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Uncle Si wrote:
    I don't know why many want to ignore or waive away the very alarming issue with Kaep with a nonchalant dismissal o0f "he's not very good.".


    You're starting to inject too much hyperbole into this conversation Si. Most of us have said we agree with you, we just don't think it's 80% sinister blackballing.

    I'm more in the 30-40% range. This is still the NFL, where rapists, drug abusers, wife beaters and criminals still get 2nd and 3rd chances. So one guy kneeling during the national anthem isn't going to evoke some massive blackballing collusion.

    The facts are yes I bet a LOT of owners, GM's and coaches are pissed off at Kaepernick for what he did.......but in the end if they think he can help their team win for the right price and right situation, they're going to kick those tires.

    I just don't think for the majority of teams, Kaep is a good fit.


    I think you're misinterpreting my audience here. This is the wide spectrum of NFL fans, not the great members of .net.

    And here is where the big difference lies. I don't think the GMs give a shit about what Kaep has done. They care that a large majority of NFL fans do though.

    And that is alarming, because the Greg Hardy's of the NFL get multiple chances because, hey, the large majority of NFL fans just don't care. A few PAs and that should do it.

    This is a whole different animal. Without taking this thread in a direction it can't go, I think you know what I'm referring to.

    It's just my opinion. Happy to be wrong and GMs dont want Kaep because he throws like his shoulder is attached to his pelvis and his hair is ridiculous. I just think its more, and that's sad to me.
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  • In a time where many are losing jobs for having a opinion about a Certain person right now and the politics involved surrounding that person and any beliefs that someone in a visible position may have contrary, it is career suicide right now to support and or indulge a person that is in that situation for fear that the supporting people will also be subjected to some kind of retaliatory backlash.
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  • Uncle Si wrote:. I just think its more, and that's sad to me.


    It's definitely messed up. Jerry Jones has no problem signing someone who tossed his GF down on a bed of guns, then held her hostage inside his bathroom at gunpoint..............but kneel for the anthem? Not Interested!
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  • The reason he isn't signed is because he can only function as a spread QB, cannot make a 2nd read, and IMHO, has acted immaturely when he lost his starting gig.

    The only coach that can make him look good was Harbaugh.

    But don't take my word for it, listen to Doug Baldwin:

    Seahawks’ Doug Baldwin doesn’t think Colin Kaepernick’s anthem protest is the reason he remains unsigned


    Doug Baldwin said he has "no doubt" a team will sign Colin Kaepernick soon. (AP)

    RENTON – The way Doug Baldwin sees it, Colin Kaepernick’s curious inability to find work so far this offseason isn’t really that curious. He thinks it has less to do with fallout from the quarterback’s national anthem protest last season than it does one of the basic truths in the NFL:

    Younger is better because it’s cheaper.

    http://sports.mynorthwest.com/292187/se ... signed-be/
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  • Big Ben raped women and got away with it and kept his job...why?..because he was winning games for the Steelers. If he sucked he would of been gone. If Krapper was a good qb he would of been signed. Since he is not and he has a lot of baggage that he created for himself no on wants to bother. As well with his vegan diet the guy looks more like a skeleton than the athlete he used to be. He will get signed somewhere when there is an injury or the Saskatchewan Roughriders are looking for a qb since Vince Young is already hurt.
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  • JTB wrote:
    Popeyejones wrote:In Benoit's defense he's always been insanely low on Kaepernick, but that he's worse than half the backups in the league is ridiculous.

    To convince me of Benoit's point, you'd have to convince me that Colin Kaepernick is considerably worse than the backup QBs who have actually been signed this off-season, which is just laughable.

    People really want to argue he's worse than ALL OF Aaron Murray, David Fales, Kellen Moore, EJ Manuel, Matt McGloin, TJ Yates, Austin Davis, Chase Daniel, Blaine Gabbert, Josh Johnson, Geno Smith, Mark Sanchez, Case Keenum, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Matt Barkley, Landry Jones, Josh McCown, and Nick Foles?

    Sorry, but at the end of the day you can take any measurement of quarterbacks you want and save for Nick Foles' one great year five years ago this is a list of 18 guys who have never even gotten close to sniffing Kaepernick's jock strap.

    I'm fine with pointing out Kaepernick's flaws, but if you want to talk about his flaws as a player, you have to talk about the players who are being signed ahead of him. That he's somewhere worse than ALL OF these guys (let alone any of them) is simply laughable.


    Only 5 of those guys were on Benoit's list and he clearly states that his evaluation is based on the ability to play from the pocket in a conventional offense. In addition, I'd point out that a lot of the guys that have signed are competing for a job and at the veteran minimum salary. We still don't know what Kaepernick is looking for contract wise.


    There's two issues:

    1) He just states an opinion and he doesn't support it. He easily could have pulled Kap's stats from in the pocket to support his argument, but didn't. I'm guessing he looked at them and left them out because they exposed how unsupported his argument is.

    2) To know if it's an ability problem that's keeping Kaepernick from being signed, we don't need to look at backups that didn't move this season, we need to look at backup QBs that were signed over him this off-season. If it's ability you have to argue that he's so much significantly worse than the 17 guys I listed he's only worth one team who signed a backup QB this off-season even poking around. That's an argument that's just impossible to take seriously.

    As for money, there were multiple reports that money was not the issue between Kaepernick and the Seahawks. Remember this is also an offseason in which the bears gave 15 APY to Mike Glennon, whose best year is worse than Kaepernick's worst year.
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  • JTB wrote:I guess he's getting killed on social media because he says Kaepernick isn't very good.

    http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/06/07/coli ... arterbacks


    It's an excellent contrarian article. And a timely one given the herd mentality that dominates mainstream articles and opinions.

    With regards to the Seahawks, I don't buy into the recently alleged "fit" nonsense. The two are so very different with regards to their physical, mental and spiritual make ups.

    Even the once popular read option comparison and running tendency was way off from the onset. One of them would flip the switch and take off like a nitro dragster. The other carved up space like a fighter pilot buying time and room to maneuver and strike.

    Thanks for posting.
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  • Sure there's some blackballing going on with Kaepernick, but the fact is, his talent and skillset isn't good enough to overcome it. Like many others have said already, players that have done a lot worse are being signed and playing football. Although his antics got him a bad rep, that's not the only reason why he's not playing.
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  • The_Z_Man wrote:It's obviously to me that Pete didn't like where his head was at. If Kap had shown any self awareness Pete would have signed him.

    But this is not about Kap's faux politics, and it never has been. People call Wilson fake, but there is no bigger fake in the NFL than Kap. People are acting like he's Marshawn Lynch, some guy from the streets of Oakland, who grew up with the cards stacked against him, or say, Richard Sherman who's from Compton and lost friends to gang violence.
    He pretends to be 'street', but it's not who he is, it's an adopted fashion style he chooses.. The real CK was raised by a white family in a wealthy California suburb noted for having lots and lots of churches. The real heart of Colin Kaepernick is not oppressed "woke" African American, rather it's "privileged yuppie square".

    And that's the issue -- he's an adapter, not a leader. He doesn't do well unless he has someone riding him every minute of every day. Someone like Harbaugh who's damn near a lunatic when involved with his players. He doesn't handle things when they don't go his way, in fact, he makes Cam Newton look gracious in that regard. We've seen the press conferences over the years. He's not a leader, he's someone who adapts to others around him. In fact, his whole drive towards social justice is not from the heart, it's a borrowed opinion from his girlfriend and buddies. They are the ones driving his social beliefs and they just happen to conveniently fit his self mantra at the moment of "poor me", everybody is picking on me. Which is what happens to many many athletes when they hit the limit of what their talent can do. He reminds me of Jeff George or Jay Cutler in that regard.

    In short, he needs to grow up and that's not going to happen if everyone keeps coddling him and telling him there's some grand conspiracy against him.


    :ditto: BINGO!
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  • penihawk wrote:
    The_Z_Man wrote:It's obviously to me that Pete didn't like where his head was at. If Kap had shown any self awareness Pete would have signed him.

    But this is not about Kap's faux politics, and it never has been. People call Wilson fake, but there is no bigger fake in the NFL than Kap. People are acting like he's Marshawn Lynch, some guy from the streets of Oakland, who grew up with the cards stacked against him, or say, Richard Sherman who's from Compton and lost friends to gang violence.
    He pretends to be 'street', but it's not who he is, it's an adopted fashion style he chooses.. The real CK was raised by a white family in a wealthy California suburb noted for having lots and lots of churches. The real heart of Colin Kaepernick is not oppressed "woke" African American, rather it's "privileged yuppie square".

    And that's the issue -- he's an adapter, not a leader. He doesn't do well unless he has someone riding him every minute of every day. Someone like Harbaugh who's damn near a lunatic when involved with his players. He doesn't handle things when they don't go his way, in fact, he makes Cam Newton look gracious in that regard. We've seen the press conferences over the years. He's not a leader, he's someone who adapts to others around him. In fact, his whole drive towards social justice is not from the heart, it's a borrowed opinion from his girlfriend and buddies. They are the ones driving his social beliefs and they just happen to conveniently fit his self mantra at the moment of "poor me", everybody is picking on me. Which is what happens to many many athletes when they hit the limit of what their talent can do. He reminds me of Jeff George or Jay Cutler in that regard.

    In short, he needs to grow up and that's not going to happen if everyone keeps coddling him and telling him there's some grand conspiracy against him.


    :ditto: BINGO!


    What a clear and powerful post. :2thumbs:
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  • penihawk wrote:
    The_Z_Man wrote:It's obviously to me that Pete didn't like where his head was at. If Kap had shown any self awareness Pete would have signed him.

    But this is not about Kap's faux politics, and it never has been. People call Wilson fake, but there is no bigger fake in the NFL than Kap. People are acting like he's Marshawn Lynch, some guy from the streets of Oakland, who grew up with the cards stacked against him, or say, Richard Sherman who's from Compton and lost friends to gang violence.
    He pretends to be 'street', but it's not who he is, it's an adopted fashion style he chooses.. The real CK was raised by a white family in a wealthy California suburb noted for having lots and lots of churches. The real heart of Colin Kaepernick is not oppressed "woke" African American, rather it's "privileged yuppie square".

    And that's the issue -- he's an adapter, not a leader. He doesn't do well unless he has someone riding him every minute of every day. Someone like Harbaugh who's damn near a lunatic when involved with his players. He doesn't handle things when they don't go his way, in fact, he makes Cam Newton look gracious in that regard. We've seen the press conferences over the years. He's not a leader, he's someone who adapts to others around him. In fact, his whole drive towards social justice is not from the heart, it's a borrowed opinion from his girlfriend and buddies. They are the ones driving his social beliefs and they just happen to conveniently fit his self mantra at the moment of "poor me", everybody is picking on me. Which is what happens to many many athletes when they hit the limit of what their talent can do. He reminds me of Jeff George or Jay Cutler in that regard.

    In short, he needs to grow up and that's not going to happen if everyone keeps coddling him and telling him there's some grand conspiracy against him.


    :ditto: BINGO!


    This is why I can't wait for the NFL to die:

    Two probably white old dudes posting about how Colin Kaepernick isn't a "real" black guy because he was adopted by white folks.

    The NFL's fan base is mostly old, privileged, militaristic guys passing judgment on the blackness that they think they can assign to someone because that's how it's always been for them.

    The NFL fanbase is pretty disgusting, but then again, when guys like Ben Roethlisberger and Peyton Manning can get away with sexual assault and be hailed as leaders of men rather than as scumbags, it's clear what sort of sickness pervades the average NFL fan.

    The only thing that will cleanse that sickness is apparently a wave of CTE lawsuits that hold organizations liable for the brain damage that they encourage in minors who play football and that hold the NFL liable for its half-hearted attempt at making a dangerous game any safer.
    Colin Kaepernick is a great person, something that the NFL is sorely lacking.
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  • :idea: :!:
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  • The_Z_Man wrote:It's obviously to me that Pete didn't like where his head was at. If Kap had shown any self awareness Pete would have signed him.

    But this is not about Kap's faux politics, and it never has been. People call Wilson fake, but there is no bigger fake in the NFL than Kap. People are acting like he's Marshawn Lynch, some guy from the streets of Oakland, who grew up with the cards stacked against him, or say, Richard Sherman who's from Compton and lost friends to gang violence.
    He pretends to be 'street', but it's not who he is, it's an adopted fashion style he chooses.. The real CK was raised by a white family in a wealthy California suburb noted for having lots and lots of churches. The real heart of Colin Kaepernick is not oppressed "woke" African American, rather it's "privileged yuppie square".

    And that's the issue -- he's an adapter, not a leader. He doesn't do well unless he has someone riding him every minute of every day. Someone like Harbaugh who's damn near a lunatic when involved with his players. He doesn't handle things when they don't go his way, in fact, he makes Cam Newton look gracious in that regard. We've seen the press conferences over the years. He's not a leader, he's someone who adapts to others around him. In fact, his whole drive towards social justice is not from the heart, it's a borrowed opinion from his girlfriend and buddies. They are the ones driving his social beliefs and they just happen to conveniently fit his self mantra at the moment of "poor me", everybody is picking on me. Which is what happens to many many athletes when they hit the limit of what their talent can do. He reminds me of Jeff George or Jay Cutler in that regard.

    In short, he needs to grow up and that's not going to happen if everyone keeps coddling him and telling him there's some grand conspiracy against him.


    This may say more about you then about him.
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