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What would you think about Jon Gruden as Pete's replacement?

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  • I just read an article on Yahoo (I know, take it with a grain of salt), stating that John Gruden is preparing to coach again. There were no specifics on a timeline but clearly Gruden is going to be a head coach someday again. He was quoted as saying this time he'd do it differently and be more hands on with personnel decisions, basically saying he'd like to be in more of a role like the one Pete has. So, we know Pete can't coach forever but if Gruden waits a few more years, would he be a good fit?
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  • http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... aff_gruden

    "I've met with several people -- I won't deny that," Gruden said in an interview with PewterReport.com. "Just about every year I talk about coming back to coach. I'm not in here every day at 4:30 or 4:00 in the morning watching pinball, you know? I'm preparing myself to come back. I am. Every day. I'm preparing to come back."

    Gruden has spent his time away from the sidelines as ESPN's Monday Night Football analyst. Even though he's been in the broadcast booth for the past eight seasons, he's still kept that coaching mentality within himself.

    "I love ESPN," Gruden said. "I mean I love what I'm doing. I'm with a great team -- a great group of guys. I'm still real close to the game. I still stay in contact with a lot of players and coaches at the league at every level. I don't know if [all the talk] is flattering or irritating. I don't really pay attention to a lot of it.

    "But I am -- every year -- preparing myself to coach. Sometimes I show up at camp and I show up in the offseason and people let me coach. I jump in drills and they still let me install plays and call plays at some places."

    One thing's for sure: With the constant whispers every year about Gruden putting back on the headset, we'll believe he'll be a head coach again -- whether at the collegiate level or in the pros -- when we actually see it.
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  • Coaches, as with players, speculation belongs in the general NFL Forum.
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  • The way I read the article last night, it seemed like he said he's always keeping himself prepared. Said not only does he need to be up on college and nfl players if he returned to coaching, but it also helps him with his current gig. Didn't seem that anything was imminent so he may well be waiting for his "dream team". I have no idea what that team may or may not be.
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  • With ESPN'S purge of salaries and the decline of quality of the games on MNF it may also disappear, I read that in the article as well, not the decline but the hint. It takes a lot of money to set up and broadcast, ESPN is seemingly going another direction.
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  • chris98251 wrote:With ESPN'S purge of salaries and the decline of quality of the games on MNF it may also disappear, I read that in the article as well, not the decline but the hint. It takes a lot of money to set up and broadcast, ESPN is seemingly going another direction.

    I wouldn't doubt it,when you have millions getting rid of cable/sat due to sports channels charging more so they can
    be in your cable/sat lineup and your bill always going up in the end because of that.
    The fans get priced out eventually and the golden egg cracks.The fallout will take away jobs like Gruden's.
    I believe he will coach again but for the Hawks?We will see in a few years..
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  • I wouldn't be against it, but ONLY when Pete retires. Wouldn't mind him being hired NOW as an offensive coach, but I'm sure he only wants a HC'ing gig.
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  • I hope it happens when the time is right.
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  • I would definitely support hiring Gruden down the road. Smart, tough coach and maximizes offenses.
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  • i said before i would want this guy to be Pete's replacement. Gruden also loves Wilson...defensive minded....perfect fit
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  • No thoughts on Gruden specifically.

    I do think though that Seattle, when the time comes, will probably cull the college ranks again. Going for another 'program style' college coach who can install his own imprint and style on the team.

    Thinking maybe along the lines of Urban Meyer. Someone that will have both a specific big picture as part of how he wants to build his team, along with an intimate familiarity with players coming out of college for a few seasons due to the recruiting process. Thus more able to remake the team in the image he wants quickly.

    I'd think that Paul Allen would be one of the few owners able to pry away the likes of a Meyer from college. I'm not totally sold on Gruden's ability to build a team/program. Since his greatest success came from taking Tony Dungy's roster to a Super Bowl title (admittedly against his own former team he built).

    Obviously pulling from the college ranks *can* provide a short lived boost in the draft process. Didn't work at all for Chip Kelly but then again his program and style were highly suspect in terms of translating to the pros from the beginning. And Doug Marrone was more of a system coach instead of a program coach. Getting collegiate offensive/defensive geniuses hasn't produced a good track record at the pro level lately. Likely being the increased level of basic competence on both sides rendered core advantages to their systems ineffective.
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  • Chris Petersen?
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  • I know the idea would stink to a lot of people, but I would be so on board with Jim Harbaugh.

    Harbaugh, with Russ at QB, and JS collecting the talent would be the best bet for post-Carroll era success.
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  • YES TO HARBAUGH!!


    That would be such a sweet hire. It doesn't seem like Pete is about to slow down anytime soon though. He's constantly talking about the future and he's got his boy Russ and Pete will always have a solid defense.

    Not sure about Gruden though, being out of coaching for so long. I'd want him to find some success building a smaller program before he came to us.

    Harbaugh on the other hand, wherever he ends up in the NFL that team is immediately a contender. If the 49ers weren't so dumb, we'd possibly could have one of the best rivalries of the decade if not best.
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  • Not sure.

    People forget that Gruden is a Holmgren disciple, and had a very similar hard ass coaching style. Which means he burned hot. Not necessarily a bad thing, but I'd compare him closer to Harbaugh, than Pete as far as style and personality.

    Would that go over well with this group of Hawk players? Not so sure about that.

    So if we're replacing Pete, I'd rather that replacement come from a Pete disciple than someone like Gruden who'd come in here and turn over the entire coaching staff, scouting department and philosophies on both sides of the ball.

    Worst thing you can do to a team that's winning is disrupt culture and continuity.
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  • He won one Super Bowl because he knew Oaklands playbook, he has never been able to develop a QB, he had a lot of chances and it took two cast offs to make things work that were good 2nd stringers Hostetler and Gannon when in Oakland, he drafted a ton and brought in even more in Tampa and it was Brad what his face that managed the Tampa offense and a good defense. Granted he was in two tough franchise to coach in with Al in Oakland who wanted the long game versus the WCO and Tampa who had meddlesome owners.
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  • I think Gruden is completely overrated at this point and he also hasn't coached in a LONG time. It's likely that he would struggle at first getting used to the current NFL.

    He basically won that SB off the back of Dungy's defense and knowing Oakland's offense by heart. A great circumstance but I wouldn't say he has impressed me otherwise.
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  • Sports Hernia wrote:I wouldn't be against it, but ONLY when Pete retires. Wouldn't mind him being hired NOW as an offensive coach, but I'm sure he only wants a HC'ing gig.

    He may be humble enough to come back for his first year as an assistant head coach and OC or something, to acclimate himself to pro coaching again. Not likely, but a possibility.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:Worst thing you can do to a team that's winning is disrupt culture and continuity.


    There are always two sides to this argument.

    I'd say that in the short term, this is often true. But in the long term, it can be disastrous.

    With Pete, I think there are just a handful of coaches in his tree that could pull off continuity. One of them is entrenched in Atlanta. But Pete is a really unique cat. Part of what makes his system work is tied indelibly to his personality. Most coaches couldn't come in and provide that kind of continuity. It'd be markedly disengenuous. And it'd be extremely difficult to get veteran players to respond to the same message from a different messenger.

    Ultimately, you want to have someone that can come in and execute their program. If that requires a short term step back while a coach brings in his kinds of players -- that's a cost one should be willing to incur. The absolute worst thing you can do is maintain continuity with a coach that can't execute the old style. I believe that Pete's program style is really hard to pull off. There is a level of energy and authentic positivity that is difficult to duplicate. It works for Pete, but really is there any other coach on this staff that could replace Pete at the top of the organization? I can't think of any.

    IMO, Seattle would be best served to forge in a new direction with a coach who has the credentials to fully implement his own program day one. Much like Pete was able to do when he came on board. Of course I hope that day is many years in the future. It's just I think it'll be near impossible to find a coach familiar with Pete's system that has the requisite force of personality to implement it at a high level.
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  • Not trolling: If PC retires while the team is still dominating the division, the next Seahawks coach will be Tom Cable.

    Sorry to break that bad news. ;)
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  • Attyla the Hawk wrote:
    IMO, Seattle would be best served to forge in a new direction with a coach who has the credentials to fully implement his own program day one. Much like Pete was able to do when he came on board. Of course I hope that day is many years in the future. It's just I think it'll be near impossible to find a coach familiar with Pete's system that has the requisite force of personality to implement it at a high level.


    It depends on the state of the team at the time.

    If Pete's last year we go 5-11? Then yes, I agree with you it's time to go in a different direction with the coach and philosophy.

    But that wasn't part of the OP's original question, so I assume if we're replacing Pete it's his decision to retire on top and the team's still one of the elite teams in the NFL as we are now.

    So if that's the case? Then I don't want this success train derailed by Gruden and an entire new staff, schemes and philosophies on both sides of the ball. I want continuity, and that means a Pete disciple.
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  • Popeyejones wrote:Not trolling: If PC retires while the team is still dominating the division, the next Seahawks coach will be Tom Cable.

    Sorry to break that bad news. ;)

    Sadly, you are likely correct we would be stuck with Cable in that situation.
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  • ^^^ Yep. 100% my read on it too.

    And in the case of a transition like that, the position is going to the assistant head coach Tom Cable, who despite all of his coaching and ethical failings, has also already been a head coach before.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    Attyla the Hawk wrote:
    IMO, Seattle would be best served to forge in a new direction with a coach who has the credentials to fully implement his own program day one. Much like Pete was able to do when he came on board. Of course I hope that day is many years in the future. It's just I think it'll be near impossible to find a coach familiar with Pete's system that has the requisite force of personality to implement it at a high level.


    It depends on the state of the team at the time.

    If Pete's last year we go 5-11? Then yes, I agree with you it's time to go in a different direction with the coach and philosophy.

    But that wasn't part of the OP's original question, so I assume if we're replacing Pete it's his decision to retire on top and the team's still one of the elite teams in the NFL as we are now.

    So if that's the case? Then I don't want this success train derailed by Gruden and an entire new staff, schemes and philosophies on both sides of the ball. I want continuity, and that means a Pete disciple.

    Gotta say I disagree strongly. All of the concerns Attyla mentioned are there, possibly even stronger, in the retire on top situation. Continuity of system and attempted replication of style are pretty much ways to guarantee falling off and likely in a way that hinders bouncing back. Adaptation is the only way to continue success in the modern NFL, even within a coaching regime.
    Who exactly would be able to "maintain" things as continuation of Pete's system?
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  • If Seattle has a another lackluster season (by former Pete/Seahawk standards) this is his last season IMO.

    Pete will announce it as his decision, but the feeling will be mutual.

    If we win baby win - then Pete gets to decide if and when for real...
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  • purpleneer wrote:Who exactly would be able to "maintain" things as continuation of Pete's system?


    Depends on when it happens.

    But there are many Carroll disciples out there that could keep this train rolling if he were to retire. Quinn, Sark, Manuel, Cable, Saleh, Bradley, Norton Jr, Bevell, Richard.

    I have no idea why everyone's all over Gruden's jock, there'd be many other coaches (college and pro) and coordinators that I'd be far more interested in than a guy who hasn't been in the league for almost a decade now.
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  • Popeyejones wrote:Not trolling: If PC retires while the team is still dominating the division, the next Seahawks coach will be Tom Cable.

    Sorry to break that bad news. ;)


    This is probably closer to the truth than most (around here) want to admit.
    The key is "still dominating"
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  • pmedic920 wrote:
    Popeyejones wrote:Not trolling: If PC retires while the team is still dominating the division, the next Seahawks coach will be Tom Cable.

    Sorry to break that bad news. ;)


    This is probably closer to the truth than most (around here) want to admit.
    The key is "still dominating"


    If the retirement were to come sooner rather than later, I could see Kris Richard getting it. But since I expect he'll get a head coaching gig at some point then I suspect Cable is the most likely to still be around.
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  • Figure Pete will retire in about.. 3-4 years.

    Jon Gruden last coached in 2008. If Pete retired after the 2020-21 season, you really would want to hire a guy that hasn't coached in 13 years..?

    Gruden will never return to coaching. He will live the John Madden like broadcasting life for at least the next decade.

    My dark horse Pete Carroll retirement replacement is Jim Harbaugh btw.
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  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    Sports Hernia wrote:I wouldn't be against it, but ONLY when Pete retires. Wouldn't mind him being hired NOW as an offensive coach, but I'm sure he only wants a HC'ing gig.

    He may be humble enough to come back for his first year as an assistant head coach and OC or something, to acclimate himself to pro coaching again. Not likely, but a possibility.


    There is literally no chance this happens.

    For one, this would be like Mora/Holmgren all over again. And we all remember what a sh** show that became.

    Another.. Pete makes roughly $7M a year. Gruden at ESPN? $6.5M

    Jon Gruden makes roughly as much as Pete Carroll does - commentating football. There's absolutely no way he agrees to be an assistant HC/offensive coordinator/whatever else job title they'd have to slap on him to leave that. And hell, I'm not sure Gruden would even consider a comeback without a VP of Ops or GM label included.

    Long story short, I just can't see how Gruden will come back when he's been out of coaching for a decade now and is making the same salary as the 2nd best coach in the NFL right now.
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  • Sgt. Largent wrote:
    purpleneer wrote:Who exactly would be able to "maintain" things as continuation of Pete's system?


    Depends on when it happens.

    But there are many Carroll disciples out there that could keep this train rolling if he were to retire. Quinn, Sark, Manuel, Cable, Saleh, Bradley, Norton Jr, Bevell, Richard.

    I have no idea why everyone's all over Gruden's jock, there'd be many other coaches (college and pro) and coordinators that I'd be far more interested in than a guy who hasn't been in the league for almost a decade now.

    Just my opinion here (I think it's plenty supported by history), but hiring one of those guys and saying stick to the same blueprint is a recipe to go downhill hard. How much do we need to see every single system eventually fail? How long do we need to see Bellichick continue to succeed by adapting and understanding that no system will sustainably beat everyone? I like Gruden, but I do agree that he is pretty overrated and would be a poor choice.
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  • I hope PC coaches for years in the future. But whoever comes in after better understand JS is a HOF GM, and the overlord of personel decision. HC input not withstanding.
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  • My hope is that this topic does not need to be revisited for another 5 or 6 years. And when that time comes, and I'll say I'm not usually one in favour of nepotism but..... Isn't there a Carroll Jr in the wings?
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  • purpleneer wrote:
    Sgt. Largent wrote:
    purpleneer wrote:Who exactly would be able to "maintain" things as continuation of Pete's system?


    Depends on when it happens.

    But there are many Carroll disciples out there that could keep this train rolling if he were to retire. Quinn, Sark, Manuel, Cable, Saleh, Bradley, Norton Jr, Bevell, Richard.

    I have no idea why everyone's all over Gruden's jock, there'd be many other coaches (college and pro) and coordinators that I'd be far more interested in than a guy who hasn't been in the league for almost a decade now.

    Just my opinion here (I think it's plenty supported by history), but hiring one of those guys and saying stick to the same blueprint is a recipe to go downhill hard. How much do we need to see every single system eventually fail? How long do we need to see Bellichick continue to succeed by adapting and understanding that no system will sustainably beat everyone? I like Gruden, but I do agree that he is pretty overrated and would be a poor choice.


    Since you brought up Belichick, I can GUARANTEE you if he retired next year the Kraft would pull a hamstring promoting Josh McDaniels or Matt Patricia.

    Why? Because if it ain't broke, you don't fix it. You keep the winning train rolling.

    Same thing here, if Pete retires you promote or hire a Carroll disciple who isn't going to come in and make drastic changes that might hurt the continuity.

    Look back on all the successful coaches retiring after long tenures with their organizations, and most of the time the next coach was an assistant, or somewhere in that coaching tree.
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