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An NFL Allegory for the Current Hawks Situation

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  • I root for a team that had a bunch of success but had fallen short for a few years in a row.

    After a really down 8-8 season that was beset by injuries our fanbase thought we were arrow up by getting rid of our head coach.

    We had grown sick of how he was stuck in ways, and more so than anything, we were sick of his loyalty to his offensive coordinator, who we blamed for all of our problems. As fans of the players, we were never willing to consider that our problems on offense might be deeper than the playcaller, because nobody roots for coordinators.

    We even advocated for pushing out our star players, or letting them walk because we thought they were declining and just holding back the next generation of talent.

    We were particularly vitriolic about star players who had brought bad press to the team, or stepped out of line once or twice in the media, because due to our success we had lost sight of how difficult it is to find pro-bowl level talent in the first place.

    And as fans, after that 8-8 year we got exactly what we wanted. We were free of our head coach and his offensive coordinator (who went on to turn two awful running attacks into two of the league's best), and shed all the guys who we insisted were holding back our young talent, and who had pissed us off because of what they had said or done in the media.

    Since we as 9ers fans got what we wanted, we've cycled through three head coaches in three years and have averaged four wins per season. Our only sign of hope after a 6-10 year (our best record since we got what we wanted) is that we stumbled onto what may have been an insanely lucky break at the QB spot which still is very uncertain, and which if it turns out, will never be replicated again.

    The moral of the story is that at the end of the day fans just want their team to win, but a lot of the time, what fans *think* they want isn't actually what they want.

    Feel free to slam me for this, but while reading the board I've been thinking about the parallels between what a lot of Hawks fans seem to be thinking right now and what 9ers fans we're thinking four years ago.

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    Popeyejones
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  • I'd be willing to bet that this scenario has played out a lot across the NFL. Everyone seems to be able to run NFL teams from their couch better than the staff who are paid to do it. In reality, it's extremely hard to win in the NFL. Using the Seahawks as the latest example, our sole tie is the only thing keeping Pete / John from averaging 10 wins over their tenure here. Imagine AVERAGING 10 wins over your tenure and being run out during a season in which you lose 2 pro bowlers to possible career ending injuries, another pro bowler to a season ending injury and several other pro bowlers missing multiple games or playing extremely below par due to injury.

    This league takes a combination of talent, coaching and luck to be successful. By every single metric there is, the Seahawks have been one of the most successful franchises since Pete/John came aboard and they took over a team with only 9 total wins the prior 2 seasons combined.

    The Niners had a lot of success under the Harbaugh time only to not be able to come close to matching it since his departure.

    Every fan wants their team to win the SuperBowl every season, and of course, that's a great goal to have, but realistically, even getting to go to one over any coaches tenure (let alone winning) is a great accomplishment. The Niners went to one and almost 2 under Harbaugh. The Seahawks went to 2 so far under Pete/John. This, in my estimation, is a successful run.

    I'm probably a ton more patient than the average fan. Sure I'd like to see some changes made, especially on the offensive side of the ball, but I'm not going to call for an entire house cleaning, because it's not happening to my liking.
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    kidhawk
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  • The current situation with the fanboys does have a certain "49ers, end of 2014" sort of fragrance, doesn't it?
    SeaChase wrote:One thing I noticed,well in my opinion,is that Wilson isnt a good passer.
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  • kidhawk wrote:I'd be willing to bet that this scenario has played out a lot across the NFL. Everyone seems to be able to run NFL teams from their couch better than the staff who are paid to do it. In reality, it's extremely hard to win in the NFL. Using the Seahawks as the latest example, our sole tie is the only thing keeping Pete / John from averaging 10 wins over their tenure here. Imagine AVERAGING 10 wins over your tenure and being run out during a season in which you lose 2 pro bowlers to possible career ending injuries, another pro bowler to a season ending injury and several other pro bowlers missing multiple games or playing extremely below par due to injury.

    This league takes a combination of talent, coaching and luck to be successful. By every single metric there is, the Seahawks have been one of the most successful franchises since Pete/John came aboard and they took over a team with only 9 total wins the prior 2 seasons combined.

    The Niners had a lot of success under the Harbaugh time only to not be able to come close to matching it since his departure.

    Every fan wants their team to win the SuperBowl every season, and of course, that's a great goal to have, but realistically, even getting to go to one over any coaches tenure (let alone winning) is a great accomplishment. The Niners went to one and almost 2 under Harbaugh. The Seahawks went to 2 so far under Pete/John. This, in my estimation, is a successful run.

    I'm probably a ton more patient than the average fan. Sure I'd like to see some changes made, especially on the offensive side of the ball, but I'm not going to call for an entire house cleaning, because it's not happening to my liking.


    Yes, yes, yes to all of this.

    The major difference between the 9ers situation and the Hawks situation is that the 9ers had an inexperienced man-child as an owner who was more than happy to cave to fan pressure and to delude himself into believing that success isn't as rare and fragile as it really is. The Hawks, on the other hand, have an owner who has been around a couple of blocks a couple of times, and is much less likely to be rash and pig headed enough to blow a good thing up under the false belief that success is easy.

    I thought of this because an immature and foolish Jed York was even tomfoolish enough to explain the Harbaugh firing by saying he wanted to win the Super Bowl every year. :lol: :lol:
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    Popeyejones
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  • Not everyone is calling for the whole coaching staff to be replaced.

    Something needs to be done about our o-line, and that is a fact.

    Keeping the same philosophy that has obviously not worked is not going to fix the situation the Hawks are in.

    I do not want to see Pete go, and I would hate to have anyone lose a job , but I would sure like to see a change made to an area that has been a problem for the last few years.
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    Ace_Rimmer
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  • And now the Niners will arguably be the second best team in the division and are only trending up under the leadership of one of the greatest offensive minds in a generation.

    Still agree with what you said though, it makes lots of sense and I agree the housecleaning is a bad idea. I think Anthony Lynn really ratcheted up the Bills run game success after Roman was fired though.
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  • The Steelers under Tomlin are also a decent allegory.

    Superbowl champs in 2008, runners up in 2010, then 4 straight seasons without a playoff win, including two 8-8 years where they missed the playoffs entirely.

    Lost to the eventual superbowl champs in each of the following 2 years, but back in the AFC championship game last year (and 13-3 this year.

    Tomlin has suffered plenty of arguments over whether or not he should be fired, but here he has the Steelers with a 1st round bye in his 11th season as HC despite all the adversity.
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  • Good thread.

    No coach is perfect.

    Remember, without Wilson's interception in the Superbowl, the whole damn narrative is radically different. Just one play, one play changed everything. That play goes different, Bellicheck and Brady might not be in New England right now... having lost 3 Superbowls in a row... people get weird about stuff like that.

    Nobody understand how important it is to stay in the hunt and have a chance.

    And no team has ever won a championship with the kind of injuries the Seahawks have faced the past 3 seasons.

    Think about 2015 if Thomas Rawls doesn't break his leg.... I mean, we were tearing it up.

    Think about 2016 if Lockette and ET don't break their legs? We're looking at better playoff seeding both years, we're looking at a completely different scenario.

    People say "well the patriots keep winning when..."

    Um no. When Wes Welker blew out his knee, the Patriots got bounced from the Playoffs in their first game.

    When Gronk went down the next year, the Broncos sent the Pats packing... and so on and so on.

    Nobody wins when vital players start going down, and aside from our all pros and pro bowlers going down, this years stable of RB's looked like a MASH unit...
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    The_Z_Man
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  • Ace_Rimmer wrote:Not everyone is calling for the whole coaching staff to be replaced.

    Something needs to be done about our o-line, and that is a fact.

    Keeping the same philosophy that has obviously not worked is not going to fix the situation the Hawks are in.

    I do not want to see Pete go, and I would hate to have anyone lose a job , but I would sure like to see a change made to an area that has been a problem for the last few years.


    I get that, but this kinda goes back to the Harbaugh thing though, as a scenario in which 9ers fans got to keep Harbaugh without Roman (the OC they all wrongly despised) was always an imaginary one to begin with.

    I also think the Seahawks HAVE made changes to their philosophies, and they just don't get talked about. They've increased their reliance on the passing attack every year for the last three or four in a row, and on defense they now play man coverage at a top 5 rate in the league.

    To be really frank about it, my suspicion is that they'd love to be more versatile in their run game, but there's just not a lot of room for that versatility when running out of shotgun, and you can't go under center more without accentuating Wilson's weaknesses and dampening his strengths as a QB.

    To be clear, I'm not saying it's all for naught and that the Hawks shouldn't do ANYTHING, my point is just that going 10-6 and making the playoffs every year (save for an off year like this one when they lost some All Pros, missed some field goals, and barely missed) is about as good as it gets in the NFL.

    I'd put it this way: as a rule changes take you back to the median. It's why as a general rule 6-10 teams are smart to roll the dice on changes, and 10-6 teams are dumb to roll the dice on changes.
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  • adeltaY wrote: I think Anthony Lynn really ratcheted up the Bills run game success after Roman was fired though.


    Nah, they were #1 in the run game both in '15 in Roman's full year, and in '16 in his half year (in which IIRC Lynn didn't really change the basic principles, but I could be wrong about that).

    In his one year in Baltimore as run game coordinator he has taken the Ravens from #28 in '16 to #11 this year, and done it with a bunch of nobody journeymen like Terrence West, Javorious Allen, and Alex Collins. (I know people think Alex Collins is great because of his performance this year, but a whole ton of that is just Roman, and him simply sucking less than West and Allen).

    I am, of course, not saying a lick about Romans complete and total non-contribution to the passing game. :lol:
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  • themunn wrote:The Steelers under Tomlin are also a decent allegory.

    Superbowl champs in 2008, runners up in 2010, then 4 straight seasons without a playoff win, including two 8-8 years where they missed the playoffs entirely.

    Lost to the eventual superbowl champs in each of the following 2 years, but back in the AFC championship game last year (and 13-3 this year.

    Tomlin has suffered plenty of arguments over whether or not he should be fired, but here he has the Steelers with a 1st round bye in his 11th season as HC despite all the adversity.


    Yep. It's like the reverse story of the 9ers' rashness, and makes the same argument.

    Great call.
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