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“Rooney Rule” circumvented.

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“Rooney Rule” circumvented.
Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:43 am
  • By the Raiders, or so it would seem in the hiring of J.G.

    Will be interesting to watch this one play out.

    I fully understand why this rule is in place but I truly think it’s a stupid one, because most every owner in almost every circumstance knows who he/she wants to hire before they interview anyone.

    Forcing (by rule) an owner to interview people they have no intention on hiring seems a waste to me but that’s just my opinion.

    Anyway, it will be interesting to see how the NFL handles this.
    It’s fairly obvious by using Davis’s own words that a deal was in place before Del Rio was even fired/ let go.

    https://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/ra ... en-hiring/

    IIRC, the last team that violated the Rooney rule was fined 200k but that was a good while back.
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    Thoughts?
    Maybe a draft pick + fine?

    Here’s a wiki link for those not familiar with the rule.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rooney_Rule
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Re: Rooney Rule circumvented.
Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:19 pm
  • The Rooney rule is garbage. In this day and age, with everything that is at stake, I think most teams will hire the best candidate available regardless of their skin color. These teams are billion dollar companies at minimum. If they overlook a more qualified, minority candidate in favor of a white coach, then they get what they deserve. I don't know. Maybe I am just being naïve.
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Re: Rooney Rule circumvented.
Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:47 pm
  • WmHBonney wrote:The Rooney rule is garbage. In this day and age, with everything that is at stake, I think most teams will hire the best candidate available regardless of their skin color. These teams are billion dollar companies at minimum. If they overlook a more qualified, minority candidate in favor of a white coach, then they get what they deserve. I don't know. Maybe I am just being naïve.


    Great post
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Re: Rooney Rule circumvented.
Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:36 pm
  • WmHBonney wrote:The Rooney rule is garbage. In this day and age, with everything that is at stake, I think most teams will hire the best candidate available regardless of their skin color. These teams are billion dollar companies at minimum. If they overlook a more qualified, minority candidate in favor of a white coach, then they get what they deserve. I don't know. Maybe I am just being naïve.


    Just a bit naive. Although Jerry Richardson is selling the Panthers...
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Re: “Rooney Rule” circumvented.
Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:01 pm
  • Maybe it doesn't apply when "re-hiring" a coach?
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Re: “Rooney Rule” circumvented.
Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:03 pm
  • Well the Rooney rule for all intents and purposes has been circumcised anyway, the way teams work around is blatant and the token interviews rampant, genuine interviews of legitimate candidates aside.
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Re: “Rooney Rule” circumvented.
Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:47 pm
  • "It's payback, Russell Wilson falling way back, in the draft, turn nothing into something"
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Re: “Rooney Rule” circumvented.
Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:15 pm
  • chris98251 wrote:Well the Rooney rule for all intents and purposes has been circumcised anyway, the way teams work around is blatant and the token interviews rampant, genuine interviews of legitimate candidates aside.

    *snort*... "Circumsised" Nice one, Chris... :irishdrinkers:

    Anyways... Yes, teams probably do engage in "tokenism" in interviews at times when following this rule. However, even these token interviews have the positive effect of "getting a name out there".

    We've all seen how this works, right? Somebody we've never heard of gets an interview, then we know his name, then he's a "hot commodity" and then he gets a job. And in the super-insular world of the NFL, where guys have an extreme tendency to "go with what ya know", forcing teams to broaden their searches and create more inclusive candidate pools is really, really important.

    This is a good thing, a positive thing and it comes at basically no cost to anyone.
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Re: “Rooney Rule” circumvented.
Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:40 pm
  • Well technically Gruden is a re-hire and known commodity, maybe the Raiders will use that argument.
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Re: “Rooney Rule” circumvented.
Thu Jan 11, 2018 7:51 pm
  • Their GM named the minority applicants they interviewed during the process when asked if they satisfied the Rooney rule on Tuesday during the press conference.

    I doubt the dude would lie. If anything the league just doesn’t like how it was circumvented by them just “interviewing” the minority considerations when they knew ahead of time that they were going to sign Gruden the whole time.

    I think the rule isn’t necessary in this day and age. You want who you want.
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Re: “Rooney Rule” circumvented.
Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:37 pm
  • Seems like no one here gets the point of the Rooney rule.

    It is NOT to give minorities a chance to be hired by the people interviewing them. It is, rather, to help them network and build professional connections with those in the NFL power structure. In other words, the “token” interviews are not only NOT a waste of time, they are the entire point of the Rooney rule in the first place.
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Re: “Rooney Rule” circumvented.
Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:15 pm
  • 5_Golden_Rings wrote:Seems like no one here gets the point of the Rooney rule.

    It is NOT to give minorities a chance to be hired by the people interviewing them. It is, rather, to help them network and build professional connections with those in the NFL power structure. In other words, the “token” interviews are not only NOT a waste of time, they are the entire point of the Rooney rule in the first place.

    It's a rule based on race, which makes it racist. End of story.
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Re: “Rooney Rule” circumvented.
Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:23 pm
  • 5_Golden_Rings wrote:Seems like no one here gets the point of the Rooney rule.

    It is NOT to give minorities a chance to be hired by the people interviewing them. It is, rather, to help them network and build professional connections with those in the NFL power structure. In other words, the “token” interviews are not only NOT a waste of time, they are the entire point of the Rooney rule in the first place.


    Still, if you are interviewing someone based on the color of their skin, isn't that as bad as not interviewing them for the same reason? It is simply reversed. Why should anyone be given special consideration or be given a chance to "build networks" based on their skin color? IF they are TRULY a good coach, then every other team out there knows their name and will attempt to lure them to their team. Every team in the NFL wants the best players and coaches regardless of their skin color. I simply cannot believe otherwise.
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Re: Rooney Rule circumvented.
Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:40 pm
  • mrt144 wrote:
    WmHBonney wrote:The Rooney rule is garbage. In this day and age, with everything that is at stake, I think most teams will hire the best candidate available regardless of their skin color. These teams are billion dollar companies at minimum. If they overlook a more qualified, minority candidate in favor of a white coach, then they get what they deserve. I don't know. Maybe I am just being naïve.


    Just a bit naive. Although Jerry Richardson is selling the Panthers...[/quote]

    Ummm no. One of the easiest ways to get your team publicity is to hire an African American. Top that with one that is highly qualified why wouldn't an owner hire them?

    No rule had to be implemented when African Americans starting playing football in the NFL, why does one need to be put in order for coaching? Also, where is the outrage about how many white owners there are in NFL? You want to get rid of racism stop including race. I am totally fine with 66% of players in the NFL being black even though African Americans only make up 13% of the country. I only care about winning and every one is a human being.
    Last edited by seahawkfreak on Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: “Rooney Rule” circumvented.
Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:34 am
  • I’m not making a judgment. I’m just explaining what the actual reason for it is.
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Re: “Rooney Rule” circumvented.
Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:39 am
  • RolandDeschain wrote:
    5_Golden_Rings wrote:Seems like no one here gets the point of the Rooney rule.

    It is NOT to give minorities a chance to be hired by the people interviewing them. It is, rather, to help them network and build professional connections with those in the NFL power structure. In other words, the “token” interviews are not only NOT a waste of time, they are the entire point of the Rooney rule in the first place.

    It's a rule based on race, which makes it racist. End of story.

    No, it doesn't. Not everything that has to do with race is racist. The inferior/superior part is missing.
    To quote the Oxford dictionary:
    racism
    noun

    1Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.
    ‘a program to combat racism’

    1.1 The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.
    ‘theories of racism’
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Re: “Rooney Rule” circumvented.
Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:40 am
  • So far so good but we are getting very close to thee “line”.
    Let’s not let this turn into something ugly that gets locked or removed.

    It is what it is but please choose your words with a moment of thought.

    Anybody care to speculate what the NFL will do in response to the Raiders?
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Re: Rooney Rule circumvented.
Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:42 am
  • seahawkfreak wrote:
    mrt144 wrote:
    WmHBonney wrote:The Rooney rule is garbage. In this day and age, with everything that is at stake, I think most teams will hire the best candidate available regardless of their skin color. These teams are billion dollar companies at minimum. If they overlook a more qualified, minority candidate in favor of a white coach, then they get what they deserve. I don't know. Maybe I am just being naïve.


    Just a bit naive. Although Jerry Richardson is selling the Panthers...[/

    Ummm no. One of the easiest ways to get your team publicity is to hire an African American. Top that with one that is highly qualified why wouldn't an owner hire them?

    No rule had to be implemented when African Americans starting playing football in the NFL, why does one need to be put in order for coaching? Also, where is the outrage about how many white owners there are in NFL? You want to get rid of racism stop including race. I am totally fine with 66% of players in the NFL being black even though African Americans only make up only 13% of the country. I only care about winning and every one is a human being.


    Thats why I said just a bit? Like, there are obvious ways to get around the rule or pay token mind to it. On the other hand, it serves a purpose of explicitly making minority coaches hard to ignore as existing at all. So yah, it's kind of a dog and pony show but it still serves a purpose, especially in an environment where some owners are absolutely, well, racially bent, like Richardson.

    I hear ya, you want a post racial world now, but its constant, vigilant baby steps.
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Re: “Rooney Rule” circumvented.
Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:35 am
  • pmedic920 wrote:So far so good but we are getting very close to thee “line”.
    Let’s not let this turn into something ugly that gets locked or removed.

    It is what it is but please choose your words with a moment of thought.

    Anybody care to speculate what the NFL will do in response to the Raiders?


    With the Raiders moving to Las Vegas there will be a wrist slap, Gruden is good for the Shield, if Al still was alive there would be a pit dug and a sacrificial draft pick or more roasted in that pit.
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Re: “Rooney Rule” circumvented.
Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:44 am
  • pmedic920 wrote:So far so good but we are getting very close to thee “line”.
    Let’s not let this turn into something ugly that gets locked or removed.

    It is what it is but please choose your words with a moment of thought.

    Anybody care to speculate what the NFL will do in response to the Raiders?

    I think they will try everything in their power to find that there was no violation. If there is evidence they did violate it, and the NFL can’t hide it, I suspect they will lay down the hammer.
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Re: “Rooney Rule” circumvented.
Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:42 pm
  • rossob wrote:Not everything that has to do with race is racist. The inferior/superior part is missing.


    But that's exactly what the Rooney rule is doing. "Blacks are not capable of getting head coaching jobs on their own, so we must institute a rule that requires that every interview process includes them."

    This is racism at its very core.

    It undermines the hiring process in the name of equality.

    Ask yourself this... If there were an overwhelming majority of black coaches in the NFL, do you think anybody would be complaining about the lack of white coaches? How about Asian coaches? Latino?

    Wait a sec, why aren't there any women coaches at ANY level in the NFL? What about transgendered coaches?

    As you can see, it's a pointless spiral of endless lunacy.
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Re: “Rooney Rule” circumvented.
Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:07 pm
  • Mindsink wrote:
    rossob wrote:Not everything that has to do with race is racist. The inferior/superior part is missing.


    But that's exactly what the Rooney rule is doing. "Blacks are not capable of getting head coaching jobs on their own, so we must institute a rule that requires that every interview process includes them."

    This is racism at its very core.

    It undermines the hiring process in the name of equality.

    Ask yourself this... If there were an overwhelming majority of black coaches in the NFL, do you think anybody would be complaining about the lack of white coaches? How about Asian coaches? Latino?

    Wait a sec, why aren't there any women coaches at ANY level in the NFL? What about transgendered coaches?

    As you can see, it's a pointless spiral of endless lunacy.

    The NFL never just thought that black coaches suck at getting HC jobs and therefore need help. They saw the problem not in the coaches but in the racist FOs/owners who would not treat qualified black coaches the same way as white ones due to perceived racist tendencies.

    Trying to combat that is not racist imo. I did not say that it was fair and equal, which it might not be, guess that depends on how much of an impact racism currently has on HC hiring.
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Re: “Rooney Rule” circumvented.
Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:18 pm
  • You have to remember something, why was Warren Moon not drafted by a NFL club, and that was in 77 / 78, only 30 years ago, the Rule was implemented in 2003 so 15 years in actual usage to help recognize minority's being qualified candidates as well.

    From Wikipedia which I think is relevant.

    History and origin[edit]

    The rule is named after Dan Rooney, the former owner of the Pittsburgh Steelers and former chairman of the league's diversity committee.

    It was created as a reaction to the 2002 firings of head coaches Tony Dungy of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Dennis Green of the Minnesota Vikings, at a time when Dungy had a winning record and Green had just had his first losing season in ten years. Shortly afterwards, U.S. civil rights attorneys Cyrus Mehri and Johnnie Cochran released a study showing that black head coaches, despite winning a higher percentage of games, were less likely to be hired and more likely to be fired than their white counterparts. Former NFL players Kellen Winslow and John Wooten then put together a self-described "affinity group" of minority scouts, coaches, and front-office personnel, to advocate for the rule's creation.[6]

    Its purpose was to ensure that minority coaches, especially African Americans, would be considered for high-level coaching positions. Until 1979, when Tom Flores was hired by the Raiders, Fritz Pollard was the only minority head coach in NFL history (which was during the league's early years in the 1920s)[7] and by the time the rule was implemented, only Tom Flores, Art Shell, Dennis Green, Ray Rhodes, Tony Dungy, and Herman Edwards had ever held head coaching jobs (only Dungy and Edwards were actively head coaching at the time of the rule's implementation, though Shell and Green would later return to head coaching).[8] Dungy in particular had struggled for years before getting a head coaching job; he was often promoted as a head coaching candidate by Chuck Noll when Dungy was an assistant under Noll in the 1980s with the Steelers, but he would not become a head coach until 1996 when he took over the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Another former Steelers assistant, Marvin Lewis, also struggled to find a head coaching position despite immense success as the Baltimore Ravens defensive coordinator and wouldn't find a head coaching position until being hired by the Cincinnati Bengals in 2003, the year the Rooney Rule went into effect. He also has not won a playoff game in those 15 seasons.Sports Illustrated's Super Bowl Archive SI.com</ref>[9]
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Re: “Rooney Rule” circumvented.
Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:00 am
  • RolandDeschain wrote:It's a rule based on race, which makes it racist. End of story.


    Oh, boy, where to even begin with this.

    Suffice to say: being reductive is not the same as being insightful.

    And you don't get to decide where the story of race ends, lol.
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Re: “Rooney Rule” circumvented.
Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:39 pm
  • WindCityHawk wrote:
    RolandDeschain wrote:It's a rule based on race, which makes it racist. End of story.


    Oh, boy, where to even begin with this.

    Suffice to say: being reductive is not the same as being insightful.

    And you don't get to decide where the story of race ends, lol.

    It's very simple. Don't over-complicate it. The end of racism will only come once people stop basing ANYTHING on race, and that may never happen.
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Re: Rooney Rule circumvented.
Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:08 pm
  • When hiring a guy to play for you, there are actually measurable that can be used to determine the quality of a player as it related to his position. There there is still some subjectivity to it, but for the most part, it is somehow clear cut. Combines, college tapes, .... etc. There is plenty of body of work to draw from.
    When it comes to hiring managers (which is what coaches are), there it s lot more subjectivity to it. Most of the time it is more about who you know than anything else. Many would fail after a few years, but at least they have gained experience interviewing, experience coaching, ... etc. How can a guy named John Doe compete with a dude called Shottenheimer, Shula, whose parents were coaches, have connections in the whole league, ... If I'm not mistaken, even Pete Caroll has his kids on the Seahawks. When you look closely, many of these coaches are like fraternity. JS worked under Daddy Shottenheimer. There is a relationship there.
    If you are a minority and you don't play golf with the owner or your dad never worked with any of these people, how the hell do you get a shot to fail or succeed? Look at college football, how many minorities are head coaches there? They can't all be dumb and stupid ???
    The idea that the Good Ole network doesn't exist and only results matter is garbage. Nobody is saying that the Roney Rules solves all problems, but it gives visibility to those who wouldn't have any otherwise. I don't understand that that bothers you.
    seahawkfreak wrote:Ummm no. One of the easiest ways to get your team publicity is to hire an African American. Top that with one that is highly qualified why wouldn't an owner hire them?

    No rule had to be implemented when African Americans starting playing football in the NFL, why does one need to be put in order for coaching? Also, where is the outrage about how many white owners there are in NFL? You want to get rid of racism stop including race. I am totally fine with 66% of players in the NFL being black even though African Americans only make up 13% of the country. I only care about winning and every one is a human being.
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Re: Rooney Rule circumvented.
Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:46 am
  • joeseahawks wrote: If you are a minority and you don't play golf with the owner or your dad never worked with any of these people, how the hell do you get a shot to fail or succeed?


    If this is truly how front offices work then what about the white candidates who don't meet the above criteria?

    I think this will always be a contentious issue, personally I don't like the rule. I understand the point about getting a coaches name out there however I believe that quality work/results ultimately determine whether a fo/owner will pursue a particular coach or not. I can't believe that an owner would invest hundreds of millions of dollars into a franchise only limit himself in one of the most important decisions.

    Also why restrict the rule to HC's? In training camp why not make every team try out a black QB or a white RB or DB?
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Re: “Rooney Rule” circumvented.
Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:49 am
  • And why does it have to be about blacks? If there is indeed a country club mentality to coaching/FO positions (and I'm not denying that there are), then why make this about the alleged plight of one singular race? (whom by the way has been well represented by coaching positions around the league)

    Like I asked before, where are the Asian, Latino, Indian coaches?
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Re: Rooney Rule circumvented.
Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:58 am
  • joeseahawks wrote:When hiring a guy to play for you, there are actually measurable that can be used to determine the quality of a player as it related to his position. There there is still some subjectivity to it, but for the most part, it is somehow clear cut. Combines, college tapes, .... etc. There is plenty of body of work to draw from.
    When it comes to hiring managers (which is what coaches are), there it s lot more subjectivity to it. Most of the time it is more about who you know than anything else. Many would fail after a few years, but at least they have gained experience interviewing, experience coaching, ... etc. How can a guy named John Doe compete with a dude called Shottenheimer, Shula, whose parents were coaches, have connections in the whole league, ... If I'm not mistaken, even Pete Caroll has his kids on the Seahawks. When you look closely, many of these coaches are like fraternity. JS worked under Daddy Shottenheimer. There is a relationship there.
    If you are a minority and you don't play golf with the owner or your dad never worked with any of these people, how the hell do you get a shot to fail or succeed? Look at college football, how many minorities are head coaches there? They can't all be dumb and stupid ???
    The idea that the Good Ole network doesn't exist and only results matter is garbage. Nobody is saying that the Roney Rules solves all problems, but it gives visibility to those who wouldn't have any otherwise. I don't understand that that bothers you.


    You could argue that there is systemic racism against white speed/skill players that starts at grade school level. How many white kids are told they would not make it as a cornerback so they're encouraged to play safety or linebacker? How many white kids are told they can't play WR so they're encouraged to play TE?

    I'm not pulling these scenarios out of my ass either. I read an article years ago that chronicled high-school level coaches (white coaches, mind you) doing this very thing... the black kids get preferential selection for positions like WR, RB, DB, unless a white kid really stands out (see Christian McCaffery).
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Re: “Rooney Rule” circumvented.
Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:50 am
  • If I’m not mistaken, I saw a ticker at bottom of the screen yesterday, said the NFL found that the Raiders did adhere to the “rule”.

    Not sure how that works when you know what Davis said but oh well, it’s a done deal now.
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